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Don't dictate beliefs

Don't dictate beliefs

There are 11176 comments on the The Star Press story from Sep 5, 2012, titled Don't dictate beliefs. In it, The Star Press reports that:

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Star Press.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#10248 Jan 4, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope. The math is correct.
The odds against the big three (The Big Bang, Spontaneous Life, Evolution)
vs the odds that the 2000 prophecy that have come true all from one book (The Bible).
Please show the details of the calculation of these odds. Given that evolution almost inevitably follows from life, the independence of those two is known to be wrong. Next, the question of spontaneous life from the Big bang is essentially a question of initial parameters and we don't know how to calculate the probability of those parameters (or even if such a probability makes sense). Finally, from the known equations of physics, a Big Bang of some sort is inevitable (a universe expanding from a hot dense state).
Look at those two sets of numbers.
The odds that the big 3 are correct and evolution has brought us all the way up to today.
Give that this is what happened (based on the evidence), the probability is 1. A priori probabilities, however, may differ.
And the odds of those prophecies around 2000 all listed in one book all fulfilled to date leavening less then 500 prophecies that for tell the end time.
According to math it's no contest.
The Bible wins hands down.
Except, of course, that the latter didn't happen. The 'prophesies' are either trivial (a kingdom will rise and wage war), self-fullfilling ( a man will ride through Jerusalem on a donkey), or were made *after* the events prophesied (all of the specific ones). So your probability is zero and mine is almost one.

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KJV

United States

#10249 Jan 4, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>Please show the details of the calculation of these odds. Given that evolution almost inevitably follows from life, the independence of those two is known to be wrong. Next, the question of spontaneous life from the Big bang is essentially a question of initial parameters and we don't know how to calculate the probability of those parameters (or even if such a probability makes sense). Finally, from the known equations of physics, a Big Bang of some sort is inevitable (a universe expanding from a hot dense state).

[QUOTE]Look at those two sets of numbers.
The odds that the big 3 are correct and evolution has brought us all the way up to today."

Give that this is what happened (based on the evidence), the probability is 1. A priori probabilities, however, may differ.

[QUOTE]And the odds of those prophecies around 2000 all listed in one book all fulfilled to date leavening less then 500 prophecies that for tell the end time.
According to math it's no contest.
The Bible wins hands down. "

Except, of course, that the latter didn't happen. The 'prophesies' are either trivial (a kingdom will rise and wage war), self-fullfilling ( a man will ride through Jerusalem on a donkey), or were made *after* the events prophesied (all of the specific ones). So your probability is zero and mine is almost one.
Not going thru that every time someone wants to dispute the numbers. I have posted the numbers many times and no doubt I will again. But you really have no interest in the honest truth about these odds you're simply looking for a battle trying to shoot hole in the calculations.

Sense there is No proof of the Big Bang or spontaneous life or macro evolution.
Start with the odds of nothing exploding and creating everything we see today and billions of things we have not see or may never see.

Ok nothing is what we are all starting with. Take your ZERO and turn it into a for sure thing. You can't, I can't, math can't. Only God can. It really is that simple. But if you like, search the earlier postings by me or just google it and you'll see the odd of your way of creation.

Now take a book that has 2500 Prophesies in it an start with prophesies number 1 coming true then take that and the odds of prophesies number 2 coming true. Now what are the odds that the same book predicted 2 prophesies and both came true to a tee.
Then keep adding the odds up until you have completed about 2000 prophesies calculations compounded. All from one book.

What you wind up with is basically Zero chance if the Big Bang etc. creating what we have now to day.

And a very high probability of the Bible being accurate.

But that's just mathematics not science.

Have a nice day.

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“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

#10250 Jan 4, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Not going thru that every time someone wants to dispute the numbers. I have posted the numbers many times and no doubt I will again. But you really have no interest in the honest truth about these odds you're simply looking for a battle trying to shoot hole in the calculations....
And you apparently don't understand the first thing about probability theory.

Probability theory deals with populations of things. Given that out of a population of 1 universe we have observed exactly 1 universe which has life, the odds of a universe having life is 1/1, which = 100%.

And this same math holds true for any number of your supposed probabilities. Which is why statements about "odds" are ridiculous.

Without a population, probability theory is just so much smoke and mirrors designed to entertain the simple minded.

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Since: Mar 11

#10251 Jan 4, 2013
I was just pointing out the flaw in your bandwagon logical fallacy argument. Point goes to me seeing as how you had no response. Easy enough.

Ok now all the theists are running scared from this question let's see if you can do any better.

Why should anyone accept god as anything other than the product of someone's vivid imagination?
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thank you for letting us know what was on your mind today.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10252 Jan 4, 2013
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
If you think all fossils have been creditable, you haven't even read much on science.
Besides, you're a fossil, and we all know you're flawed, lol.
Ad hom, you dodged the question completely. Nice to see you never change.

Oh, and never changing is always a bad thing.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#10253 Jan 4, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
I was just pointing out the flaw in your bandwagon logical fallacy argument. Point goes to me seeing as how you had no response. Easy enough.
Ok now all the theists are running scared from this question let's see if you can do any better.
Why should anyone accept god as anything other than the product of someone's vivid imagination?
<quoted text>
Read Alma Chapter 30 posted here: http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/alma/30.44...

Let me know what you think. When I read this thread, I get the impression that its all summed up in this chapter.(Alma Chapter 30 records the conversation between an atheist and a theist in the Americas some time before the birth of Christ.)

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10254 Jan 4, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
No not at all. You see I understand your believe against all odds in spontaneous life, where nothing exploded and created everything. Gaps and falsified science to fill in the gaps and failed test.
I choose to believe in the Bible where 2000 prophecy have been fulfilled and the History of the Bible keeps getting proven right with each new city unearthed.
Again, show these "prophecies" that occurred after the fact, with actual evidence of them and not just assertions, also not including the forced one that people made happen simply because they wanted to justify it. You keep claiming these exist, yet you never provide more than "it says here" ... which is nothing more than an assertion.

As to your first point, no, we're here, life had to come from non-life somehow. Science looks for a way it could have happened, you ignore the entire situation with a non-answer. Most of us would rather have an answer than ignore it using a non-answer as a shield from the facts.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#10255 Jan 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
A statement after the fact is not a prophecy, and nothing in the bible was written prior to those, except the one that was forcibly fulfilled by humans who believe in that nonsense. Face it, you are lying now.
How about you come up with something original to say...its like you are copying the words of others, like this guy bellow.

Alma 30
14 Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers.

15 How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; therefore ye cannot know that there shall be a Christ.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#10257 Jan 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Where have I once stated I knew what a scientist does in their personal life? It's your article that does that, not me, I just pointed out the assumptions made in the article. I do know a bunch of scientists who do a ton of research "off the clock," they're on YouTube, often posting videos of their personal research.
So you are saying youtube contains the valuable scientific findings of credible scientists while Foreign Policy Magazine's list top global thinkers are brainwashed? Brilliant.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10258 Jan 4, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
How about you come up with something original to say...its like you are copying the words of others, like this guy bellow.
Alma 30
14 Behold, these things which ye call prophecies, which ye say are handed down by holy prophets, behold, they are foolish traditions of your fathers.
15 How do ye know of their surety? Behold, ye cannot know of things which ye do not see; therefore ye cannot know that there shall be a Christ.
Yes, we know your doctrine is written to contradict itself thus providing you with justification and excuses for all of your stupid.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10259 Jan 4, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying youtube contains the valuable scientific findings of credible scientists while Foreign Policy Magazine's list top global thinkers are brainwashed? Brilliant.
Yes, I am, let's compare:

Foreign Policy is about foreign affairs ... it's a rag about gossip and policies.

YouTube contains lectures from the greates universities, Berkeley is my personal favorite, and vlogs from many scientists, yes, actual scientists, they have some interesting user names too. Documentaries from some of the best sources, not just cable TV crab either. As well as sponsored scientific events, music by geeks about science, footage of actual experiments, and some wonderful, well studied, people.

I think YouTube wins hands down, if you don't agree then you are insane. Pretty simple, no?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#10260 Jan 4, 2013
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, we know your doctrine is written to contradict itself thus providing you with justification and excuses for all of your stupid.
Why do ye go about perverting the ways of the Lord? Why do ye teach this people that there shall be no Christ, to interrupt their rejoicings? Why do ye speak against all the prophecies of the holy prophets?

(Alma 30:22)

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#10261 Jan 4, 2013
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do ye go about perverting the ways of the Lord? Why do ye teach this people that there shall be no Christ, to interrupt their rejoicings? Why do ye speak against all the prophecies of the holy prophets?
(Alma 30:22)
Funny, even your doctrine says you shouldn't do what you do. Yet, you keep doing it. That's called hypocrisy.

Since: Apr 08

Watford, UK

#10262 Jan 4, 2013
Givemeliberty wrote:
The majority of people used to think the earth was flat. The best rise to the top and usually they are few and sadly there are many naive people fearing a delusion called god.
<quoted text>
According to the "no science" of the Bible, the earth is flat.

Notice how similar the word "nonsense" is to "no science"

Since: Apr 08

Watford, UK

#10263 Jan 4, 2013
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>\\\
again. You never actually addressed my post the last time I answered you --
" http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... ;
When you do respond, KJV ignores you, when you don't, KJV accuses you of not responding to a sufficient level.

No wonder he's confused.

Since: Apr 08

Watford, UK

#10264 Jan 4, 2013
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Khatru, I am concerned about Islam in connection with it's possible link to terrorism.
But since I don't believe in mythology, neither Islam nor atheism can negatively impact my belief whatsoever.
Does atheism Â“worryÂ” me Â– no Â– why would it Â– or how could atheism be a threat to me or what I believe? If someone believes in fraudulent science, or no God (or god) or believes that there are 100 various gods, that doesn't jeopardize or diminish MY belief, lol.
I don't even know any atheists personally, or if I do, they Â“hidÂ” it out of shame, as I have found from my research that many atheists do.
I feel sorry for atheists, even though it's human nature to get mad at them, because most of them are rude and obnoxious. When anyone is confronted with people who are rude and obnoxious, the human reaction is to respond the same way back to them, lol. I realize I've been rude to you, when I shouldn't be, since I'm not sure you can overcome your ignorance.
But there is a part of me that still admires you for commending Noah and his family so many times for their knowledge. I know, I've said that before, but I don't want you to ever forget it.
Anyway.........participation in this forum has convinced me that atheists have absolutely nothing going for themselves, nor does the mythological fraudulent science on which their faith is based.
Also, participation in this forum has been encouraging and uplifting, since it has caused me to research so many topics, including the explosive the growth of Christianity in China and many other countries around the globe. Actually, I was very surprised at the encouraging statistics on it, weren't you?
Consequently, I'm happy to reassure you that I have grown in my faith and belief of the Christian God since participating for the past 3 months in this forum. In fact, I would like to thank you for helping me in that growth.
You're fooling yourself.

As you grow in faith you shrink in logic and reason and the less said about your knowledge of science the better.

Since: Apr 08

Watford, UK

#10266 Jan 4, 2013
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Even though I know you are eager to see Jesus, you're going to have to constrain your impatience.
From the Bible:
2 Peter, chapter 3, verse 8
Added by later writers to try and explain away the failed prophecies of Jesus.

Anyway, nice to know that you don't believe it took your god six days to create the world.

Since: Apr 08

Watford, UK

#10267 Jan 4, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't need to run from these threads I simply corrected your atheist buddy where he went wrong in his figuring.
Of course you're still trying to figure out what a coulomb is and what the ^ symbol means in a math equation. LOL
Come back when you know what Pi is and that a circle is not a sphere.

Since: Apr 08

Watford, UK

#10268 Jan 4, 2013
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I will say that "new" documents aren't found. However, we know that new findings have produced original old documents heretofore undiscovered which I can only speculate contributes to the changes KJV referred to.
Be accurate and honest when in your heart you know the intent of the post, even if it wasn't stated to your satisfaction, just as you have sometimes stated things about Noah that came out differently than you may have intended. We don't want to nit pick - it's not prodctive, is it? LOL
However, when you are commenting on another poster, I again need to remind you that you should address your concerns with that poster, not me.
Just like I've told you before, if you have concerns about the content of posted links, you need to address them with the publishers, not me.
If you and I are going to remain the great friends we always have been, I will ask you to cooperate with me on this, and I will thank you for your usual fine cooperation.
Given KJV's failure to address his own contradictions, I thought I'd see if you were prepared to help him out.

You're not.

Some buddy you are.

Since: Apr 08

Watford, UK

#10269 Jan 4, 2013
Ooogah Boogah wrote:
<quoted text>
endogenous retroviruses do not rely on the fossil record and they also prove evolution is a fact. There are 29 different ways to prove evolution is a fact.
Your God ... not so much.
Here's one of those ways...

"Traces of ancient viruses which infected our ancestors millions of years ago are more widespread in us than previously thought."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment...

"One of the viruses was found to have invaded the genome of a common ancestor around 100 million years ago with its remnants discovered in almost every mammal in the study.

Another infected an early primate with the result that it was found in apes, humans and other primates as well."

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