Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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#9788
Dec 31, 2012
 

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In 2005, Newsweek contained an article by Jerry Adler concerning an exhibit at the history museum in New York. Mr. Adler was writing about Darwin's life and Darwin's influence; praising Darwin as one of the “greats”.

Adler published false and misleading statements which were only his opinions.

Quite the contrary to Mr. Adler's beliefs, Darwinism is headed for the waste bin, like other outmoded theories.

The fact is, our universe is “bursting with design”.

The included link explains.

http://www.darwinism-watch.com/index.php...

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“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#9789
Dec 31, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you want me to honor the dead atheist gunman?
No, I'll let you take care of that. You are probably good at it.
I was talking about the kids, you sick demented sadist. The fact that you even forgot kids were killed betrays your vile attitude.

“I Am No One Else”

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Seattle

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#9790
Dec 31, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
No, let's not ignore anything.
Actually, you make a good point by reminding us that his problems were brought on by those marvelous drugs science developed.
Thank you.
Yes, improperly diagnosed medications does tend to cause problems. sychiatry is based on the same principles as religion, and that's who diagnosis those ailments. Psychiatry is not based on the scientific method, but on stereotypes and assumptions, it's not medicine, it's quackery.

So thank you for demonstrating that religious "logic" is always a failure.

“I Am No One Else”

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#9791
Dec 31, 2012
 

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derek4 wrote:
Erasmus Medical Center in Rotterdam fired Don Poldermans, scientific researcher, for misconduct, due to his alleged carelessness in collecting data. He reportedly used data from patient records without proper consent, and fake data. He is reported to have submitted knowingly unreliable data to scientific conferences.
This link from Forbes gives details about Mr. Poldermans' fraud:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/larryhusten/2011/...
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Still showing how well science finds the frauds and phonies.

So why doesn't your religion ever find frauds or phonies?

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

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#9792
Dec 31, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
I think that you have confused materialism and reductionism.
[1] "Materialism - The doctrine that nothing exists except matter and its movements and modifications."
That seems to sum things up nicely. Why are we not all Materialists?

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

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Texas, USA

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#9793
Dec 31, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
No.
Once religion is out of our lives, most of us will likely almost never think of it again - as with monarchs. The colonials thought about monarchy a lot until they deposed the only monarch affecting their lives, and then more or less stopped thinking about the subject rather than going after the others.
"Man will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest." –Diderot
Monarchy and the church are both headed to Irrelevanceville in the West.
That's one of my favorite quotes. I usually sub politician for "king" to keep it current. Is that fair?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#9794
Dec 31, 2012
 
KJV wrote:
Strawman? Me?
Yes, strawman. You.
KJV wrote:
You think Cannibalism is ok if the majority of the tribe says it's ok.
Just like that. That's a Christian idea. That's your idea, and you're a Christian. No humanist posted has anything like that, and many have contradicted it. The Affirmations of Humanism contradict you.

That's what's meant by a strawman: you come up with an idea, claim it was your oppositions, and then argue against it. Have a ball: http://www.kellscraft.com/Scarecrowofoz/crowo...

Besides, cannibalism is as Christian as vampirism and zombiism:

"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day." - John 6:54

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#9795
Dec 31, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
Atheist contributors to this forum give scientists far too much credit for catching fraud and correcting it.
You're just sore because science exposed your creation myth and your bible as frauds:

"Fraud - A person or thing intended to deceive others." That's your bible. That's also your church.

And you have a lot of nerve calling anybody else fraudulent, because that definition also describes you, too. Your entire presence on this thread presenting canned fetch-and-paste sophistry has been to promote a fraud against science. You are here to deceive.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#9796
Dec 31, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
In the Colorado Springs Gazette, there is a story of what the police had to do to stop one atheist extremist when he went on a rampage trying to dictate his godless belief.
http://www.discovery.org/a/15271
Discovery Institute. LOL. Check out how clueless this is:

"Darwin didn’t waste time trying to disprove creation theory, just as smart religious leaders don’t waste time trying to disprove scientific discoveries that reveal how God’s creation evolves."

Darwin's ideas have decimated your church and laid bare its fraud for the world to see without even referring to it.

And it is colossally hysterical for the Discovery Institute to pretend that they're not creationists trying to overturn science. Have you seen their Wedge Document? It's a leaked internal bulletin announcing its intentions to broadside the very foundation of all science. From Wiki:

"The wedge strategy is a political and social action plan authored by the Discovery Institute, the hub of the intelligent design movement. The strategy was put forth in a Discovery Institute manifesto known as the Wedge Document, which describes a broad social, political, and academic agenda whose ultimate goal is to defeat materialism, naturalism, evolution, and "reverse the stifling materialist world view and replace it with a science consonant with Christian and theistic convictions."

That's as hostile to science as it is possible to be.

So here we unearth another Christian deception. Dim, and that's called fraud.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#9797
Dec 31, 2012
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Agreed. And the scientific community eventually works out the truth of the matter. Again, that is why we require testability and reproducibility of results.
Fraud is a serious concern because it does distort the scientific process and makes it more difficult to get to truth. But, if the fraud is in an interesting and important area of study, the results will be tested by many independent scientists and the fraud made clear fairly quickly. Fraud in less significant areas can last longer, but again, the truth will be found by subsequent investigators when they attempt to reproduce the results.
Dimwit4 doesn't understand that we are really just as skeptical of science as we are of religion.

Only, more often than not, scientific mistakes and frauds are exposed and their findings rejected.

He also doesn't get that he has absolutely NO skepticism of religion, making it possible for him to believe wild, unfounded, fantastical and impossible claims.

He fights his way through truth to see only what he wants to see. What he's been indoctrinated to see.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#9798
Dec 31, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheism isn't an ideology. Secular humanism is.
Until you can assimilate some basic understanding about what atheists are and what we claim, your credibility remains zero, and you have nothing to offer.
Incidentally, your life appears bleak to me, and your hope for heaven is baseless. It's a promise from a book that makes many fraudulent claims.
From Secularhumanism.org

"Far from living in a moral vacuum, secular humanists “wish to encourage wherever possible the growth of moral awareness.”(The quote comes from “A Secular Humanist Declaration,” the Council for Secular Humanism’s founding document, authored by Paul Kurtz.)

Secular humanists believe human values should express a commitment to improve human welfare in this world.(Of course, human welfare is understood in the context of our interdependence upon the environment and other living things.) Ethical principles should be evaluated by their consequences for people, not by how well they conform to preconceived ideas of right and wrong.

Secular humanism denies that meaning, values, and ethics are imposed from above. In that it echoes simple atheism. But secular humanism goes further, challenging humans to develop their own values. Secular humanism maintains that through a process of value inquiry, reflective men and women can reach rough agreement concerning values, and craft ethical systems that deliver desirable results under most circumstances.

Indeed, say secular humanists, the basic components of effective morality are universally recognized. Paul Kurtz has written of the “common moral decencies”—qualities including integrity, trustworthiness, benevolence, and fairness. These qualities are celebrated by almost every human religion, not because God ordained them, but because human beings cannot thrive in communities where these values are ignored.

Secular humanism offers a nonreligious template that may one day guide much of humanity in pursuing fulfilling and humane lives—lives that are rich intellectually, ethically, and emotionally, without reliance on religious faith."

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

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#9799
Dec 31, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Good post!
Thanks!

It stopped KJV in his tracks when he posted that nonsense about the Bible being amended to incorporate new documents that are found.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

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#9800
Dec 31, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Good point. Dim wouldn't have been sent here if his handlers didn't perceive a serious threat from the irreligious.
Thanks again!

It certainly shows that despite the bluster of the believers - they're running scared.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

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#9801
Dec 31, 2012
 
swerty wrote:
To all my atheist friends out there, happy new year and all the best for the year ahead.
Hope you have a good 4,550,000,000. <quoted text>
Cheers buddy!

It's Hogmanay!

All the best for 2013 to everyone!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#9802
Dec 31, 2012
 
swerty wrote:
To all my atheist friends out there, happy new year and all the best for the year ahead. Hope you have a good 4,550,000,000.
Thank you, swerty, and same to you. I guess you're using the Big Bang calendar here.

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#9803
Dec 31, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
I was talking about the kids, you sick demented sadist. The fact that you even forgot kids were killed betrays your vile attitude.
The atheist remembered the kids.

Does that please you?

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#9804
Dec 31, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, improperly diagnosed medications does tend to cause problems. sychiatry is based on the same principles as religion, and that's who diagnosis those ailments. Psychiatry is not based on the scientific method, but on stereotypes and assumptions, it's not medicine, it's quackery.
So thank you for demonstrating that religious "logic" is always a failure.
Psychiatrists don't develop medications without enlisting the help of laboratory scientists. As we have seen, often those scientists are fraudulent and on the payroll of mega drug companies.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#9805
Dec 31, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
The cost to investigate a single case may be $525,000.00 or more.
With 20,000 fraudulent scientific papers published every year, as previously posted and documented, have you considered how astronomical these costs are?


Speaking of the cost of fraud - religious fraud, in this case - I know how to recover it at least several times over. Let's stipulate to your numbers - about ten billion dollars lost yearly to scientific fraud. Force the church to pay its fair share of taxes, which costs America over seventy billion dollars annually by conservative estimates http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendlyatheist/...

And here's some rockin' good news for everybody :

FFRF sues IRS over preferential treatment of churches
December 28, 2012

The Freedom From Religion Foundation filed a federal lawsuit yesterday challenging the Internal Revenue Service’s preferential treatment of churches in applying for and maintaining tax-exempt status. The IRS exempts churches and certain other religious organizations from paying expensive application fees and filing the onerous annual Form 990 required of non-church non-profits.

FFRF, a national state/church watchdog with more than 19,000 nonreligious members ... are challenging the preferential application and reporting exemptions given to churches.

FFRF and its chapter are tax-exempt 501(c)(3) nonprofit organizations that paid fees of several hundred dollars in order to apply for tax-exemption, and must annually file the annual Form 990.

The IRS requires non-church tax-exempt non-profits to file “detailed, intrusive, and expensive annual reports to maintain tax-exempt status, but such reports are not required for churches and certain other affiliated religious organizations,” the complaint notes.

“Why should churches be exempt from basic financial reporting requirements? Equally important, why would churches not wish to be accountable?” asks Annie Laurie Gaylor, FFRF co-president.

“The unfairness of this is so overwhelming,” says FFRF President Emerita Anne Nicol Gaylor.“Churches are allowed to play by different rules.”

The Form 990 requires detailed reports on revenue and functional expenses, activities, governance, management, how groups fulfill their mission, and what proportion is spent on programs, management and fundraising.

The “preferential treatment of churches” directly benefits churches, while discriminating against other non-profit organizations, including the plaintiffs,“solely on the basis of religious criteria,” FFRF’s complaint asserts. This “results in obligations imposed on secular non-profits, including the plaintiffs, that are not imposed on churches.”

FFRF asks the court find the church exemptions a violation of the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment, and the equal protection rights of the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. FFRF seeks to enjoin the IRS from continuing to exempt churches and related organizations from the application and annual reporting required of all other non-profit organizations under §501(c)(3).

This is FFRF’s third ongoing lawsuit against IRS practices involving preferential treatment of churches.

In November, FFRF filed a high-profile lawsuit seeking to enforce the IRS’ non-electioneering code against churches. In late August, U.S. District Judge Barbara Crabb ruled that FFRF and three of its directors have standing to proceed in a challenge of the 1954 “parish exemption” act of Congress. That law, enacted to reward ministers for fighting what the law’s author, U.S. Rep. Peter Mack, called “a godless and antireligious world movement,” permits “ministers of the gospel” to deduct payment designated as a housing allowance from taxable income.

All three lawsuits were filed in U.S. District Court, Western District of Wisconsin, and were brought on behalf of FFRF by attorney Richard L. Bolton.

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#9806
Dec 31, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Still showing how well science finds the frauds and phonies.
So why doesn't your religion ever find frauds or phonies?
How do you know it was scientists, or the government watchdogs, or scientists who were under pressure by the investigations and had no choice?

There are no frauds and hoaxes in the Bible to find - that's the beauty of it. Thanks for realizing that when you point out they can't find any.

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#9807
Dec 31, 2012
 

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Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Dimwit4 doesn't understand that we are really just as skeptical of science as we are of religion.
Only, more often than not, scientific mistakes and frauds are exposed and their findings rejected.
He also doesn't get that he has absolutely NO skepticism of religion, making it possible for him to believe wild, unfounded, fantastical and impossible claims.
He fights his way through truth to see only what he wants to see. What he's been indoctrinated to see.
Science is rooted in mythology and deception – and money greases the wheels that make it turn. Fraud abounds in science. We get new reports every day of it.

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