Don't dictate beliefs

Don't dictate beliefs

There are 11180 comments on the The Star Press story from Sep 5, 2012, titled Don't dictate beliefs. In it, The Star Press reports that:

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Star Press.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7837 Dec 7, 2012
The 2004 to 2007 publicity campaign for atheism was not sustainable. Public interest is not coming back

Atheism experienced a surge of public interest due to some best selling books in the years 2004 - 2007, but the interest was not sustainable. The media hype surrounding these books and the books themselves did not gain any significant amount of new adherents to atheism in the United States. In March of 2008, the newspaper USA Today noted that survey data failed to show any discernible increase in the amount of atheists due to this publicity campaign.

The public's interest in evolutionism is now declining and global atheism is shrinking in adherents and market share.

http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/07...

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7838 Dec 7, 2012
“I have heard atheists argue that moral obligation is simply a description of how we evolved. But that cannot be so. It is not a description of how we act because we universally admit violation of it! Rather, it is prescriptive: it does not describe a certain code of conduct, but rather, prescribes a code of conduct. Moral obligation, like the laws of logic, are prescriptive and not simply descriptive. Therefore, moral obligation is objective and not simply subjective.

Lest I be misunderstood, let me freely admit that subjectivity is an attribute of the moral law - God holds us accountable for what we know in accordance with our nature and relations. The conscience is not totally developed at birth. As the intelligence develops, the sentient being becomes aware of how he wants to be treated and what kind of behavior results in happiness. In this way, he comes to grip with his moral obligation to treat his neighbors and His Creator with benevolence so as to promote happiness. Society and parental upbringing play important roles in the development of the conscience, but no sane person is justified for wrongdoing because of an immoral society or wicked parents. The environment is an influence upon us but not a cause. We have free wills and have the power of contrary choice in every temptation, and this is presupposed in all criminal justice systems just as it is presupposed in debate. The moral law is external to self, objective, and universal inasmuch that it respects the motive and intent of the heart. All men know that malevolent behavior is always objectively bad and wrong and benevolent behavior is always objectively good and right. Outward behavior may differ, but moral obligation respects outward behavior only indirectly. Moral obligation directly respects a state of heart. Love is the sum of all of God's law. No man will be able to plead ignorance on Judgment Day, because he is fully aware of the state of heart that moral obligation impresses upon him. All sane men know all they need to know to be obligated to love God and their neighbors as themselves.”
http://rightremedy.org/booklets/47

[“... moral obligation is simply a description of how we evolved... that cannot be so. It is not a description of how we act because we universally admit violation of it ...”]

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#7839 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are one of the densest humans I've ever encountered.
You need to get it through your thick head that my posts to this forum do not have to meet with your specifications, and there is no requirement of me to defend internet internet sources I link to, nor is there any requirement to answer any poster at any time.
Correct. You have the ability to be a spamming troll if you wish. And you have clearly chosen that path.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7840 Dec 7, 2012
Christopher Hitchens: Another Atheist Full of Hate?

Father Raymond de Souza writes about Christopher Hitchens in the National Post that he was a hateful man, meaning he was full of hate. I personally knew from some YouTube videos and listening to his brother Peter Hitchens, former atheist, the hate that he had for religion of all stripes, some possibly justified but far from all.

On the other hand is hatred ever justified?

I did not know that he was a socialist for some time before he wisened up and became a conservative. I often admired his articles on various issues which took this stance. However I had no idea of the points Raymond de Souza brought out in this article below.

I have often asked self-labelled atheists, if they wanted to become like Richard Dawkins who seizes every opportunity to deride the perceived religious, especially Christians. How can a man like Dawkins claim to be so smart if he takes such sadistic pleasure in mocking the beliefs of others? Why can’t an atheist disagree in silence the way we Christians often have to realizing we cannot change the mind of a man who appears that he is on the way to madness?

I asked my friend Brian, an agnostic, if a person with the angry behaviour of Richard Dawkins or Madelyn Murray Ohair or Christopher Hitchens was the angry person he wanted to become. I have noticed that the more evangelical atheists are, the more hateful and mocking they become of any other belief. Surely this most obvious characteristic can not be admired in anyone.

continued:
http://www.cpedley.com/news-of-the-world/athe...

[“... the more evangelical atheists are, the more hateful and mocking they become of any other belief. Surely this most obvious characteristic can not be admired in anyone.”
Thinking

UK

#7841 Dec 7, 2012
Spamtard.
derek4 wrote:
“I have heard atheists argue that moral obligation is simply a description of how we evolved. But that cannot be so. It is not a description of how we act because we universally admit violation of it! Rather, it is prescriptive: it does not describe a certain code of conduct, but rather, prescribes a code of conduct. Moral obligation, like the laws of logic, are prescriptive and not simply descriptive. Therefore, moral obligation is objective and not simply subjective.
Lest I be misunderstood, let me freely admit that subjectivity is an attribute of the moral law - God holds us accountable for what we know in accordance with our nature and relations. The conscience is not totally developed at birth. As the intelligence develops, the sentient being becomes aware of how he wants to be treated and what kind of behavior results in happiness. In this way, he comes to grip with his moral obligation to treat his neighbors and His Creator with benevolence so as to promote happiness. Society and parental upbringing play important roles in the development of the conscience, but no sane person is justified for wrongdoing because of an immoral society or wicked parents. The environment is an influence upon us but not a cause. We have free wills and have the power of contrary choice in every temptation, and this is presupposed in all criminal justice systems just as it is presupposed in debate. The moral law is external to self, objective, and universal inasmuch that it respects the motive and intent of the heart. All men know that malevolent behavior is always objectively bad and wrong and benevolent behavior is always objectively good and right. Outward behavior may differ, but moral obligation respects outward behavior only indirectly. Moral obligation directly respects a state of heart. Love is the sum of all of God's law. No man will be able to plead ignorance on Judgment Day, because he is fully aware of the state of heart that moral obligation impresses upon him. All sane men know all they need to know to be obligated to love God and their neighbors as themselves.”
http://rightremedy.org/booklets/47
[“... moral obligation is simply a description of how we evolved... that cannot be so. It is not a description of how we act because we universally admit violation of it ...”]
Thinking

UK

#7842 Dec 7, 2012
Wrong. If you've seen Dawkins talking with the archbishop of canterbury you'll see he is quite charming.
derek4 wrote:
Christopher Hitchens: Another Atheist Full of Hate?
Father Raymond de Souza writes about Christopher Hitchens in the National Post that he was a hateful man, meaning he was full of hate. I personally knew from some YouTube videos and listening to his brother Peter Hitchens, former atheist, the hate that he had for religion of all stripes, some possibly justified but far from all.
On the other hand is hatred ever justified?
I did not know that he was a socialist for some time before he wisened up and became a conservative. I often admired his articles on various issues which took this stance. However I had no idea of the points Raymond de Souza brought out in this article below.
I have often asked self-labelled atheists, if they wanted to become like Richard Dawkins who seizes every opportunity to deride the perceived religious, especially Christians. How can a man like Dawkins claim to be so smart if he takes such sadistic pleasure in mocking the beliefs of others? Why can’t an atheist disagree in silence the way we Christians often have to realizing we cannot change the mind of a man who appears that he is on the way to madness?
I asked my friend Brian, an agnostic, if a person with the angry behaviour of Richard Dawkins or Madelyn Murray Ohair or Christopher Hitchens was the angry person he wanted to become. I have noticed that the more evangelical atheists are, the more hateful and mocking they become of any other belief. Surely this most obvious characteristic can not be admired in anyone.
continued:
http://www.cpedley.com/news-of-the-world/athe...
[“... the more evangelical atheists are, the more hateful and mocking they become of any other belief. Surely this most obvious characteristic can not be admired in anyone.”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7843 Dec 7, 2012
Thinking wrote:
Spamtard.
<quoted text>
Thank you for essentially reposting my material by hitting your reply button and saying nothing of importance. LMAO

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7844 Dec 7, 2012
Thinking wrote:
Wrong. If you've seen Dawkins talking with the archbishop of canterbury you'll see he is quite charming.
<quoted text>
To atheists, he is charming. To me, he was an a*shole, like you.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#7845 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
The public's interest in evolutionism is now declining and global atheism is shrinking in adherents and market share.
I really doubt this is true. A recent survey I saw showed the a steady increase in the "None" category. Those without religion. Which would include Atheists, Agnostics and those with Deist type beliefs.
Thinking

UK

#7847 Dec 7, 2012
Your loss.
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
To atheists, he is charming. To me, he was an a*shole, like you.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#7848 Dec 7, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct. You have the ability to be a spamming troll if you wish. And you have clearly chosen that path.
Yep. He goes out of his way to be just as hateful as he can possibly be and then can't understand why his actions elicit derogatory replies.

All he ends up doing is giving people even more reasons to not like any belief system that would produce such a hateful little person.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7849 Dec 7, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
Ah thank you. I have an iPhone with very little avatars and it looked like a little kid rapped up in a blanket.

That was a horrible thing and my thoughts and pray's go out to her and her family.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7850 Dec 7, 2012
swerty wrote:
<quoted text>The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:



History is currently being distorted by the millions of Christians who lie to have us believe that the Holocaust was not a Christian deed. Through subterfuge and concealment, many of today’s Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian in order to place his misdeeds on those with out Jesus. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and chat rooms.

Considering that Christianity has thus far been incapable of producing an unbiased, educated follower which speaks the truth,(I haven’t encountered any), I have been forced to dispel the myth by writing this essay. It is not until I bring up his speeches, my personal info on the Nazi regime and their tactics that a Christian will begin to question what their clergy told them.(I am the offspring of a German soldier. My Opa served under Hitler in WW2 and my father was raised during the time of the Nazi regime. This is important information to take into consideration for I am privy to some info that most Americans do not know. It is common for American media and education institutions to lie to their citizens concerning Nazi Germany.) So, in presenting this information I must break it into four parts: 1) Facts about Hitler and his involvement with the Church. 2) How the Church was the catalyst for anti- Semitism. 3) Facts concerning how the Nazi regime drilled these beliefs into Germanic society. 4) Quotes Hitler made which prove he had a disdain for atheism/occultism, upheld his Christian faith, and hated Jews due to his Christianity
Wrong

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#7851 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
To atheists, he is charming. To me, he was an a*shole, like you.
People are "mean" to you because you're an idiot parading as an intellectual, people are inherently mean toward liars like you, it's a natural trait.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7852 Dec 7, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? I'm not sure I get this. Maybe in a cultural, general sense. But christianity has at its core belief the worship of a Jew as God. So Hitler hated Jews, but worshiped one as god? Doesnt seem to add up to me. Agree?
Are you suggesting that if the belief were irrational or self-contradictory, that it would not be held by a Christian?

Jews are called "Christ killers" by Christians for a reason. Here was a very famous German Christian that undoubtedly influenced Herr Hitler:

MARTIN LUTHER ON THE JEWS

[1] "The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves"

[2] "We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them."

[3] "The blind Jews are truly stupid fools"

[4] "Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people."

[5] "eject them forever from this country"

[6] "they are nothing but thieves and robbers"

[7] "What then shall we do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?"

[8] "Such a desperate, thoroughly evil, poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews"

[9] "They are the real liars and bloodhounds"

[10] "We are at fault for not slaying them."

[11] "I shall give you my sincere advice: first to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them."

[12] "Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed."

[13] "Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."

[14] "Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them"

[15] "If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs"

[16] "If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the river Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words `I baptize thee in the name of Abraham'."

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7853 Dec 7, 2012
swerty wrote:
<quoted text>Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]

Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:
Yes he used Christianity didn't mean he really was one.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7854 Dec 7, 2012
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, Hitler was christian, leading a country of anti semitic christians.
No you're wrong

Brain dead. Simply brain dead.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7855 Dec 7, 2012
IANS quoted Bullwinkle: "Eenie meenie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak."
Aerobatty wrote:
I miss Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Good pick-up! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7856 Dec 7, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>I really doubt this is true. A recent survey I saw showed the a steady increase in the "None" category. Those without religion. Which would include Atheists, Agnostics and those with Deist type beliefs.
Now pay close attention to the last entry and it name "Atheist" vs "non-religious"
2nd to last.

IF THEY WERE THE SAME THEY WOULD HAVE LISTED THEM THAT WAY!

The CIA World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.35%(of which Roman Catholic 16.83%, Protestant 6.08%, Orthodox 4.03%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.43%, Hindu 13.78%, Buddhist 7.13%, Sikh 0.36%, Jewish 0.21%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 11.17%, non-religious 9.42%, atheists 2.04%.

Wow. A whole 2.04% you guys are kicking some ass. LOL

Type all the lie you want survey after survey shows Atheist below 2.5%

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7857 Dec 7, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>I really doubt this is true. A recent survey I saw showed the a steady increase in the "None" category. Those without religion. Which would include Atheists, Agnostics and those with Deist type beliefs.
A survey published in the 2005 Encyclopedia Britannica stated that 2.3% of the world's population consists of individuals who profess "atheism, skepticism, disbelief, or irreligion, including the militantly antireligious." In regards to the 2.3% figure just mentioned, the 2005 survey cited by Encyclopedia Britannica survey did not include Buddhist in regards to the 2.3% figure and Buddhism can be theistic or atheistic."

Wikipedia:

"Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population.[citation needed] It is difficult to determine whether atheism is growing or not"

Wikipedia :

"2005 poll by AP/Ipsos surveyed ten countries. Of the developed nations, people in the United States were most sure of the existence of God or a higher power (2% atheist, 4% agnostic)"

Wikipedia :

"According to one estimate, atheists make up about 2.3% of the world's population"

"In 2007, a Pew Forum survey found that the atheist population in the United States was 1.6% of the American population."

"Global atheism is shrinking and demographic changes in the United States and the world are expected to shrink the influence of American secularism.
In 2012, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary reported that globally every day there are 800 less atheists per day, 1,100 less non-religious (agnostic) people per day and 83,000 more people professing to be Christians per day.
In 2011, the American Spectator declared concerning research published in the International Bulletin of

Missionary Research:
The report estimates about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day. These atheists are presumably disproportionately represented in the West, while religion is thriving in the Global South, where charismatic Christianity is exploding."

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