Don't dictate beliefs

Don't dictate beliefs

There are 11176 comments on the The Star Press story from Sep 5, 2012, titled Don't dictate beliefs. In it, The Star Press reports that:

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Star Press.

Thinking

Farnham, UK

#7841 Dec 7, 2012
Spamtard.
derek4 wrote:
“I have heard atheists argue that moral obligation is simply a description of how we evolved. But that cannot be so. It is not a description of how we act because we universally admit violation of it! Rather, it is prescriptive: it does not describe a certain code of conduct, but rather, prescribes a code of conduct. Moral obligation, like the laws of logic, are prescriptive and not simply descriptive. Therefore, moral obligation is objective and not simply subjective.
Lest I be misunderstood, let me freely admit that subjectivity is an attribute of the moral law - God holds us accountable for what we know in accordance with our nature and relations. The conscience is not totally developed at birth. As the intelligence develops, the sentient being becomes aware of how he wants to be treated and what kind of behavior results in happiness. In this way, he comes to grip with his moral obligation to treat his neighbors and His Creator with benevolence so as to promote happiness. Society and parental upbringing play important roles in the development of the conscience, but no sane person is justified for wrongdoing because of an immoral society or wicked parents. The environment is an influence upon us but not a cause. We have free wills and have the power of contrary choice in every temptation, and this is presupposed in all criminal justice systems just as it is presupposed in debate. The moral law is external to self, objective, and universal inasmuch that it respects the motive and intent of the heart. All men know that malevolent behavior is always objectively bad and wrong and benevolent behavior is always objectively good and right. Outward behavior may differ, but moral obligation respects outward behavior only indirectly. Moral obligation directly respects a state of heart. Love is the sum of all of God's law. No man will be able to plead ignorance on Judgment Day, because he is fully aware of the state of heart that moral obligation impresses upon him. All sane men know all they need to know to be obligated to love God and their neighbors as themselves.”
http://rightremedy.org/booklets/47
[“... moral obligation is simply a description of how we evolved... that cannot be so. It is not a description of how we act because we universally admit violation of it ...”]
Thinking

Farnham, UK

#7842 Dec 7, 2012
Wrong. If you've seen Dawkins talking with the archbishop of canterbury you'll see he is quite charming.
derek4 wrote:
Christopher Hitchens: Another Atheist Full of Hate?
Father Raymond de Souza writes about Christopher Hitchens in the National Post that he was a hateful man, meaning he was full of hate. I personally knew from some YouTube videos and listening to his brother Peter Hitchens, former atheist, the hate that he had for religion of all stripes, some possibly justified but far from all.
On the other hand is hatred ever justified?
I did not know that he was a socialist for some time before he wisened up and became a conservative. I often admired his articles on various issues which took this stance. However I had no idea of the points Raymond de Souza brought out in this article below.
I have often asked self-labelled atheists, if they wanted to become like Richard Dawkins who seizes every opportunity to deride the perceived religious, especially Christians. How can a man like Dawkins claim to be so smart if he takes such sadistic pleasure in mocking the beliefs of others? Why can’t an atheist disagree in silence the way we Christians often have to realizing we cannot change the mind of a man who appears that he is on the way to madness?
I asked my friend Brian, an agnostic, if a person with the angry behaviour of Richard Dawkins or Madelyn Murray Ohair or Christopher Hitchens was the angry person he wanted to become. I have noticed that the more evangelical atheists are, the more hateful and mocking they become of any other belief. Surely this most obvious characteristic can not be admired in anyone.
continued:
http://www.cpedley.com/news-of-the-world/athe...
[“... the more evangelical atheists are, the more hateful and mocking they become of any other belief. Surely this most obvious characteristic can not be admired in anyone.”

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7843 Dec 7, 2012
Thinking wrote:
Spamtard.
<quoted text>
Thank you for essentially reposting my material by hitting your reply button and saying nothing of importance. LMAO

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7844 Dec 7, 2012
Thinking wrote:
Wrong. If you've seen Dawkins talking with the archbishop of canterbury you'll see he is quite charming.
<quoted text>
To atheists, he is charming. To me, he was an a*shole, like you.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#7845 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
The public's interest in evolutionism is now declining and global atheism is shrinking in adherents and market share.
I really doubt this is true. A recent survey I saw showed the a steady increase in the "None" category. Those without religion. Which would include Atheists, Agnostics and those with Deist type beliefs.
Thinking

Farnham, UK

#7847 Dec 7, 2012
Your loss.
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
To atheists, he is charming. To me, he was an a*shole, like you.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#7848 Dec 7, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct. You have the ability to be a spamming troll if you wish. And you have clearly chosen that path.
Yep. He goes out of his way to be just as hateful as he can possibly be and then can't understand why his actions elicit derogatory replies.

All he ends up doing is giving people even more reasons to not like any belief system that would produce such a hateful little person.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7849 Dec 7, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
Ah thank you. I have an iPhone with very little avatars and it looked like a little kid rapped up in a blanket.

That was a horrible thing and my thoughts and pray's go out to her and her family.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7850 Dec 7, 2012
swerty wrote:
<quoted text>The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:



History is currently being distorted by the millions of Christians who lie to have us believe that the Holocaust was not a Christian deed. Through subterfuge and concealment, many of today’s Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian in order to place his misdeeds on those with out Jesus. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and chat rooms.

Considering that Christianity has thus far been incapable of producing an unbiased, educated follower which speaks the truth,(I haven’t encountered any), I have been forced to dispel the myth by writing this essay. It is not until I bring up his speeches, my personal info on the Nazi regime and their tactics that a Christian will begin to question what their clergy told them.(I am the offspring of a German soldier. My Opa served under Hitler in WW2 and my father was raised during the time of the Nazi regime. This is important information to take into consideration for I am privy to some info that most Americans do not know. It is common for American media and education institutions to lie to their citizens concerning Nazi Germany.) So, in presenting this information I must break it into four parts: 1) Facts about Hitler and his involvement with the Church. 2) How the Church was the catalyst for anti- Semitism. 3) Facts concerning how the Nazi regime drilled these beliefs into Germanic society. 4) Quotes Hitler made which prove he had a disdain for atheism/occultism, upheld his Christian faith, and hated Jews due to his Christianity
Wrong

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#7851 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
To atheists, he is charming. To me, he was an a*shole, like you.
People are "mean" to you because you're an idiot parading as an intellectual, people are inherently mean toward liars like you, it's a natural trait.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7852 Dec 7, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? I'm not sure I get this. Maybe in a cultural, general sense. But christianity has at its core belief the worship of a Jew as God. So Hitler hated Jews, but worshiped one as god? Doesnt seem to add up to me. Agree?
Are you suggesting that if the belief were irrational or self-contradictory, that it would not be held by a Christian?

Jews are called "Christ killers" by Christians for a reason. Here was a very famous German Christian that undoubtedly influenced Herr Hitler:

MARTIN LUTHER ON THE JEWS

[1] "The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows, seven times higher than ordinary thieves"

[2] "We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them."

[3] "The blind Jews are truly stupid fools"

[4] "Now just behold these miserable, blind, and senseless people."

[5] "eject them forever from this country"

[6] "they are nothing but thieves and robbers"

[7] "What then shall we do with this damned, rejected race of Jews?"

[8] "Such a desperate, thoroughly evil, poisonous, and devilish lot are these Jews"

[9] "They are the real liars and bloodhounds"

[10] "We are at fault for not slaying them."

[11] "I shall give you my sincere advice: first to set fire to their synagogues or schools and to bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them."

[12] "Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed."

[13] "Fifth, I advise that safe-conduct on the highways be abolished completely for the Jews."

[14] "Burn down their synagogues, forbid all that I enumerated earlier, force them to work, and deal harshly with them"

[15] "If this does not help we must drive them out like mad dogs"

[16] "If I had to baptize a Jew, I would take him to the river Elbe, hang a stone around his neck and push him over with the words `I baptize thee in the name of Abraham'."

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7853 Dec 7, 2012
swerty wrote:
<quoted text>Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]

Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:
Yes he used Christianity didn't mean he really was one.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7854 Dec 7, 2012
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, Hitler was christian, leading a country of anti semitic christians.
No you're wrong

Brain dead. Simply brain dead.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7855 Dec 7, 2012
IANS quoted Bullwinkle: "Eenie meenie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak."
Aerobatty wrote:
I miss Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Good pick-up! Watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat.

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7856 Dec 7, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>I really doubt this is true. A recent survey I saw showed the a steady increase in the "None" category. Those without religion. Which would include Atheists, Agnostics and those with Deist type beliefs.
Now pay close attention to the last entry and it name "Atheist" vs "non-religious"
2nd to last.

IF THEY WERE THE SAME THEY WOULD HAVE LISTED THEM THAT WAY!

The CIA World Factbook gives the world population as 7,021,836,029 (July 2012 est.) and the distribution of religions as Christian 33.35%(of which Roman Catholic 16.83%, Protestant 6.08%, Orthodox 4.03%, Anglican 1.26%), Muslim 22.43%, Hindu 13.78%, Buddhist 7.13%, Sikh 0.36%, Jewish 0.21%, Baha'i 0.11%, other religions 11.17%, non-religious 9.42%, atheists 2.04%.

Wow. A whole 2.04% you guys are kicking some ass. LOL

Type all the lie you want survey after survey shows Atheist below 2.5%

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7857 Dec 7, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>I really doubt this is true. A recent survey I saw showed the a steady increase in the "None" category. Those without religion. Which would include Atheists, Agnostics and those with Deist type beliefs.
A survey published in the 2005 Encyclopedia Britannica stated that 2.3% of the world's population consists of individuals who profess "atheism, skepticism, disbelief, or irreligion, including the militantly antireligious." In regards to the 2.3% figure just mentioned, the 2005 survey cited by Encyclopedia Britannica survey did not include Buddhist in regards to the 2.3% figure and Buddhism can be theistic or atheistic."

Wikipedia:

"Another survey attributed to Britannica shows the population of atheists at around 2.4% of the world's population.[citation needed] It is difficult to determine whether atheism is growing or not"

Wikipedia :

"2005 poll by AP/Ipsos surveyed ten countries. Of the developed nations, people in the United States were most sure of the existence of God or a higher power (2% atheist, 4% agnostic)"

Wikipedia :

"According to one estimate, atheists make up about 2.3% of the world's population"

"In 2007, a Pew Forum survey found that the atheist population in the United States was 1.6% of the American population."

"Global atheism is shrinking and demographic changes in the United States and the world are expected to shrink the influence of American secularism.
In 2012, Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary reported that globally every day there are 800 less atheists per day, 1,100 less non-religious (agnostic) people per day and 83,000 more people professing to be Christians per day.
In 2011, the American Spectator declared concerning research published in the International Bulletin of

Missionary Research:
The report estimates about 80,000 new Christians every day, 79,000 new Muslims every day, and 300 fewer atheists every day. These atheists are presumably disproportionately represented in the West, while religion is thriving in the Global South, where charismatic Christianity is exploding."

Langoliers

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#7858 Dec 7, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>I really doubt this is true. A recent survey I saw showed the a steady increase in the "None" category. Those without religion. Which would include Atheists, Agnostics and those with Deist type beliefs.
Posted earlier by derek4

Study: Atheists Have Lowest 'Retention Rate' Compared to Religious Groups

Only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults. This "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.

There were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey. Four-hundred thirty-two weighted respondents said they were raised atheist. Of those, 131 self-identified as atheist.

Continued:

Gray also noted that, "of those raised as atheists, 30% are now affiliated with a Protestant denomination, 10% are Catholic, 2% are Jewish, 1% are Mormon, and 1% are Pagan."

Jehovah's Witness, congregationalist and holiness churches had the next lowest retention rates at 37 percent, 37 percent and 32 percent, respectively. Thirty-eight percent of those who grew up with no particular religious faith or belief system remained that way.

Hindus had the highest retention rate at 84 percent, followed by Jews (76 percent), Muslims (76 percent), Greek Orthodox (73 percent), Mormons (70 percent) and Catholics (68 percent).

Baptists had the highest retention rate of the Protestant Christian categories at 60 percent, followed by Lutheran (59 percent) and Pentecostal (50 percent).
http://www.christianpost.com/news/study-athei...

[Right; NO thinking people don't want to be atheists.]

From: Deseret News / Salt Lake City, UT

July, 2012

“Atheists abandon their beliefs more often than people in other religious groups, study finds”

A new study has found that people raised in an atheist home abandon those beliefs as adults more often than people raised with other religious belief systems, putting atheism at a 30 percent retention rate. Conclusions and interpretations of the study are that atheists are more often "made" as adults rather than "raised." The highest retention rates are in the Hindu faith, which holds onto about 84 percent of adherents.

Those who grow up in an atheist household are least likely to maintain their beliefs about religion as adults, according to a study by Georgetown University's Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA).

Only about 30 percent of those who grow up in an atheist household remain atheists as adults. This "retention rate" was the lowest among the 20 separate categories in the study.

There were 1,387 atheists (weighted) in the survey. Four-hundred thirty-two weighted respondents said they were raised atheist. Of those, 131 self-identified as atheist.
http://www.deseretnews.com/article/765589392/...

[Who would want to be an atheist? LOL]

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7859 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I claimed?
AGAIN: YOU say I claimed?
I repeat, your reference is to content of web page material.
That's right, polymath. Dim has no opinions of his own. He's merely an empty vessel serving as a vector for his handlers. He has informed us repeated that he has no interest in any other ideas.

But that doesn't mean that you shouldn't flay him nevertheless. The rest of us are interested in ideas.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7860 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
correction on my post to Kitten:
I wrote, "I notice you were once a Mormon. You converted to atheism from Mormonism." I should have written: "You converted from Mormonism to atheism."
Oh, look! Dim nearly had a thought of his own. He changed the order of the words in a sentence!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7861 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
"most of the prejudice I've encountered has been from atheists who, with varying degrees of good grace, suggest that I'm stupid or ill-informed for my beliefs."
How is that prejudice if they met him, Dim?
derek4 wrote:
My supervisor at work who is an atheist, and who never misses an opportunity to tell everyone around him that he is, insists on giving me a hard time every single year when I ask for annual leave for religious observation.
No special rights for the superstitious.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Evidence for God! (Oct '14) 1 min John 577
News Tampa Teacher @LoraJane Hates Christians, Promo... 3 min Eagle 12 396
News Atheism requires as much faith as religion? (Jul '09) 6 min superwilly 258,466
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 41 min Science 69,768
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 55 min Subduction Zone 30,046
News Nonsense of a high order: The confused world of... 6 hr yehoshooah adam 3,768
News Atheism and cowardice (Nov '11) Mon Eagle 12 12,668
More from around the web