Don't dictate beliefs

Don't dictate beliefs

There are 11176 comments on the The Star Press story from Sep 5, 2012, titled Don't dictate beliefs. In it, The Star Press reports that:

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Star Press.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#7820 Dec 6, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
What does the news have to do with my Avitar?
Bwaaaahahahahahahahahahahahaha hahhahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha haha!!
Pffftfttttt hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahh ahahahahahahahahahahhahahahaha hahahahhahahahahhahahahahahaha !!!
Keep braying jackass! OMFG!
<quoted text>
Well, I guess we can at least agree with them that there are talking mules, huh?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#7821 Dec 6, 2012
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"I see you don't keep up with the news"
What the hell does the news have to do with that ridicules avatar that you use?
" http://abcnews.go.com/International/malala-yo... ;

Since: Mar 11

Portage, MI

#7822 Dec 6, 2012
As foretold in the bible! Talking jackasses!

:))
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, I guess we can at least agree with them that there are talking mules, huh?

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#7823 Dec 7, 2012
same here i come on here to learn as well, but that dickhead derek want go away,
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Au contraire. I am not out to impress anyone. And btw I am learning from people on this forum. As an exC is kinda therapy for me ;) I suggest you actually read and digest some of the posts here, and you will benefit too and regain your sanity.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#7824 Dec 7, 2012
The Holocaust was caused by Christian fundamentalism:



History is currently being distorted by the millions of Christians who lie to have us believe that the Holocaust was not a Christian deed. Through subterfuge and concealment, many of today’s Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian in order to place his misdeeds on those with out Jesus. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and chat rooms.

Considering that Christianity has thus far been incapable of producing an unbiased, educated follower which speaks the truth,(I haven’t encountered any), I have been forced to dispel the myth by writing this essay. It is not until I bring up his speeches, my personal info on the Nazi regime and their tactics that a Christian will begin to question what their clergy told them.(I am the offspring of a German soldier. My Opa served under Hitler in WW2 and my father was raised during the time of the Nazi regime. This is important information to take into consideration for I am privy to some info that most Americans do not know. It is common for American media and education institutions to lie to their citizens concerning Nazi Germany.) So, in presenting this information I must break it into four parts: 1) Facts about Hitler and his involvement with the Church. 2) How the Church was the catalyst for anti- Semitism. 3) Facts concerning how the Nazi regime drilled these beliefs into Germanic society. 4) Quotes Hitler made which prove he had a disdain for atheism/occultism, upheld his Christian faith, and hated Jews due to his Christianity
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope no chicken on a stick.
Just in a bucket with red and white strips.
You're not from Haiti are you?
Voodoo is your religion?

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#7825 Dec 7, 2012
How Christianity was the catalyst of the Holocaust:

Hitler’s anti-Semitism grew out of his Christian education. Austria and Germany were majorly Christian during his time and they held the belief that Jews were an inferior status to Aryan Christians. The Christians blamed the Jews for the killing of Jesus. Jewish hatred did not actually spring from Hitler, it came from the preaching of Catholic priests and Protestant ministers throughout Germany for hundreds of years. The Protestant leader, Martin Luther, himself, held a livid hatred for Jews and their Jewish religion. In his book,“On the Jews and their Lies,” Luther set the standard for Jewish hatred in Protestant Germany up until World War 2. Hitler expressed a great admiration for Martin Luther constantly quoting his works and beliefs.

Now, you must remember before Hitler rose to Chancellor of Germany the country was in a deep economic depression due to the Versailles treaty. The Versailles treaty demanded that Germans made financial reparations for the previous war and Germany simply was not self sufficient enough in order to pay the debt. Hitler was the leader that raised Germany out of the depression and brought them back to a world recognized power. Due to his annulment of the financial woes of the Germanic people he became their redeemer and they anointed him as the leader of the German Reich Christian Church in 1933. This placed him in power of the German Christian Socialist movement which legislates their political and religious agendas. It united all denominations, mainly the Protestant/Catholic and Lutheran people to instill faith in a national Christianity.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you escaped from your master?
LOL
When you get real I will too.
Nut job!

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#7826 Dec 7, 2012
Adolf Hitler, in a speech in Berlin on 24 Oct. 1933 [This statement clearly refutes modern Christians who claim Hitler as favoring atheism. Hitler wanted to form a society in which ALL people worshipped Jesus and considered any questioning of such to be heresy. The Holocaust was like a modern inquisition, killing all who did not accept Jesus. Though more Jews were killed then any other it should be noted that MANY ARYAN pagans and atheists were murdered for their non-belief in Christ.]

Here Hitler uses the Bible and his Christianity in order to attack the Jews and uphold his anti-Semitism:
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Have you escaped from your master?
LOL
When you get real I will too.
Nut job!

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#7827 Dec 7, 2012
thers pics on the inter net, hitler with the pope in the vatican, you dont get near the pope if your not a bible botherer,
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Nope no chicken on a stick.
Just in a bucket with red and white strips.
You're not from Haiti are you?
Voodoo is your religion?
Thinking

Farnham, UK

#7828 Dec 7, 2012
If you care, why don't you know?

There are references in Ephesians, 1 Timothy and Luke.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Where?
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#7830 Dec 7, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We don't hate the Jews, we love them! They have given us more than half of the scripture we have now!
Should be all of the scripture you have now. Christianity started life as a sect of Judaism. You know. That guy. The tribal semitic war god ;) which then evolved into something less angry.
Thinking

Farnham, UK

#7831 Dec 7, 2012
Yes, Hitler was christian, leading a country of anti semitic christians.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice cutting off my post to serve your needs.
I'll have to repost it then.
"
Do you believe this?
What a sucker! You would believe anything Hitler said! Yes Hitler called himself a Christian. You believe him!
Why would he lie? You need to learn what a Christian is. Hitler was no Christian.
"Hitler was not a Christain or a Christian. I have zero interest in your spelling problems or your other problems, but as for Hitler, you will get the same answer any and every time in one form or another any time you want to say Hitler was a Christian. This is not open to dispute, since Hitler was not a Christian.
Was Hitler a Christian?
October 30, 1999
Dear Straight Dope:
In my numerous online debates in various chatrooms, I have learned the following: many Christians seem to think that Adolf Hitler was an atheist (or at least wasn't "Christian"). Of course I and my fellow atheists know better, as Hitler mentions his devotion to Christianity numerous times in his writings. Can you clear this up for me? Was Hitler an "honest to God" Christian, or was he simply using religion as a means of control?- Carl Stieger
The short answer is a definite "maybe" or, more precisely, "probably neither." The looooong answer is somewhat more complicated.
You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools.
First, let's look at what he said that seems to put him on the anti-Christian side:
According to a press release from Catholic League President, William A. Donohue (2/4/99): "Hitler was a neo-pagan terrorist whose conscience was not informed by Christianity, but by pseudo-scientific racist philosophies. Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933, Hitler said,'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'"
[further down, within the text:]
“... atheists looking for a quick cheap-shot may claim Hitler was a Christian; similarly, Christians looking for a quick shot may claim he was an atheist. Know what? Hitler was a vegetarian! Oooh, those evil vegetarians! He also recommended that parents give their children milk to drink instead of beer and started the first anti-smoking campaign.(So by the "reasoning" used in these types of arguments, if you are truly anti-Hitler, you should smoke heavily and only give your baby beer!) Better watch out, though he was an oxygen-breather, too! In other words, does it really matter whether Hitler was an atheist or a Christian or whatever? Just because somebody may hold a particular worldview (along with other views) doesn't make him a spokesman for that view, or even remotely representative of others who hold that view.”"
continued:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1699... ;
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#7832 Dec 7, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
This is the whole point of the fall of man. God can not create imperfection, hence, man had to choose to transition to a "fallen" state where he could learn by experience, outside of the presence of God. Not only did man fall, but all that God created changed to become "corrupt" or able to deteriorate and die. There are eternal laws that God must obey. In order for us to learn and grow, we must have experience.
You seem to have missed the point. The fall of man never happened, because the first few chapters of the bible are proven as pure mythology. The garden of eden, talking snake etc is pure myth.

The new testament characters took these myths literally. They really did think there was a literal garden of eden, a literal flood etc. This means that they had no special powers of knowledge. Such people today we would class as mentally ill. "God" is just voices in their head, auditory hallucinations. People today still hear voices in their head and think that God or angels are talking to them. Today we say such people are schizophrenics. The delusions of religious zealots 2000 years ago are no different to this.

The theology of christianity is based on the fall of man myth. Without adam and eve, there is no fall and no need for redepemption and no jesus. Yet inexpicable people still cling to superstition despite all the scientific evidence and modern biblical scholarship which has disproved the bible.

Since: Aug 12

Location hidden

#7833 Dec 7, 2012
The Pope finally admitted that the early Catholic Church decided to move the celebration of Christ's birth to coincide with the immensely popular Pagan celebration of the Winter Solstice, stealing such Pagan traditions as the Yule tree, the elf who brings toys to children, and gift giving.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7834 Dec 7, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I assume you have taken the road of being a spamming troll. If you want to actually carry on a conversation, please post something you are willing to defend.
You are one of the densest humans I've ever encountered.

You need to get it through your thick head that my posts to this forum do not have to meet with your specifications, and there is no requirement of me to defend internet internet sources I link to, nor is there any requirement to answer any poster at any time.

Where did you get any idea I was interested in “carrying on a conversation” with you? You don't offer “conversation”; you offer circular arguments without credible support. You dispute news sources and science sources that have already reported indisputable facts, and you fail at trying to overturn them. Further, they do not need my defense.

You will notice that I have not persisted in harassing posters who choose not to address my comments. They are free to read them or skip them. It makes me no difference which they do.

You offer us nothing but your personal opinion, and since you are not a recognized authority on any subject, that opinion has no value to me personally. I have no value for any of the atheist opinions in this forum, but do I feel compelled to respond to each and every one of them? NO.

As to whether or not you can “deal with that” or whatever else you can or can't do, that's up to you - it isn't my problem, so I don't need to know about it.

I did not initiate addressing posts to you specifically, nor did I ask that you address posts to me.

Just this further note to all forum participants: As everyone here should already know, the subject of this forum,“Don't Dictate Beliefs”, primarily reflects the views of posters who are theist and atheist. In that regard, I research related topics that generally support my views, I present what I find to the forum with links, and often add my own comments at the end in brackets to show that my opinions on the material are not part of the web page(s) I linked to.

Just as I will never accept the atheistic view, I recognize that atheists will not accept the theist view, nor the compelling evidence against fraudulent science that I have presented to the forum, nor do I really care what they accept. Their endorsement is not required, lol.

Thank you and have a good day – or whatever kind of day you want, LMAO.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7835 Dec 7, 2012
“My impression of many atheists is that they seem to think it is a slam-dunk case for atheism; that it is very clear, and that, conversely, Christianity lacks any good evidences at all - and suffers from the effects of many counter-proofs -, and is clearly untrue. If that is indeed the case (about clearness), and further, if atheism is true, then there must be an awful lot of Christians and other theists who are resisting this "obvious" truth.

My view is somewhat intermediate: I think (as anyone would fully expect) that the theistic proofs are compelling and the atheist ones implausible and fallacious, yet I believe that the "psychological" aspects of belief (all sorts of belief, not just religious faith; i.e., epistemology) and the many many complex influences which make one believe what they do, "nullify" - in large part -, the clearness of the objective proofs qua proofs.

In effect, then, it would not be such a clear thing, either way, once these other non-philosophical influences and factors are taken into account. Nor (for largely the same reason) is it so straightforward (as some atheists seem to think), that if a person is presented with a fantastic miracle, that they automatically believe in God or Christianity. That is not the biblical teaching, nor what we have learned from human experience and history. And that is because every person comes to the table with a host of prior belief-paradigms and theoretical frameworks, and experiences, including the emotions and the will, which are not to be underestimated, either, in their effect on beliefs, in all people, of whatever stripe.

In my view God's existence is known by the cumulative effect of evidence drawn from many, many sources and sorts of arguments (which includes the stars and conscience, as Paul argued in Romans 1 and 2). The teleological and cosmological arguments connect God's existence to the known physical world, which is why they are my favorite theistic arguments; I love that "concreteness" about them.”
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/06/are-al...

[I love that "concreteness" about them.”- me too.]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7836 Dec 7, 2012
[Atheist killings; staggering]

The statistics that are the result of irreligious genocide stagger the imagination.

A blight on Christianity? Certainty. Something wrong? Dismally wrong. Millions and millions of people killed? No. The numbers are tragic, but pale in comparison to the statistics of what non-religion criminals have committed.

My point is not that Christians or religious people aren't vulnerable to committing terrible crimes. Certainly they are. But it is not religion that produces these things; it is the denial of Biblical religion that generally leads to these kinds of things. The statistics that are the result of irreligious genocide stagger the imagination.

My source is The Guinness Book of World Records. Look up the category "Judicial" and under the subject of "Crimes: Mass Killings," the greatest massacre ever imputed by the government of one sovereign against the government of another is 26.3 million Chinese during the regime of Mao Tse Tung between the years of 1949 and May 1965. The Walker Report published by the U.S. Senate Committee of the Judiciary in July 1971 placed the parameters of the total death toll in China since 1949 between 32 and 61.7 million people. An estimate of 63.7 million was published by Figaro magazine on November 5, 1978.

In the U.S.S.R. the Nobel Prize winner, Alexander Solzhenitsyn estimates the loss of life from state repression and terrorism from October 1917 to December 1959 under Lenin and Stalin and Khrushchev at 66.7 million.

Finally, in Cambodia (and this was close to me because I lived in Thailand in 1982 working with the broken pieces of the Cambodian holocaust from 1975 to 1979) "as a percentage of a nation's total population, the worst genocide appears to be that in Cambodia, formerly Kampuchea. According to the Khmer Rouge foreign minister, more than one third of the eight million Khmer were killed between April 17, 1975 and January 1979. One third of the entire country was put to death under the rule of Pol Pot, the founder of the Communist Party of Kampuchea. During that time towns, money and property were abolished. Economic execution by bayonet and club was introduced for such offenses as falling asleep during the day, asking too many questions, playing non-communist music, being old and feeble, being the offspring of an undesirable, or being too well educated. In fact, deaths in the Tuol Sleng interrogation center in Phnom Penh, which is the capitol of Kampuchea, reached 582 in a day."

Then in Chinese history of the thirteenth to seventeenth centuries there were three periods of wholesale massacre. The numbers of victims attributed to these events are assertions rather than reliable estimates. The figures put on the Mongolian invasion of northern China form 1210 to 1219 and from 1311 to 1340 are both on the order of 35 million people. While the number of victims of bandit leader Chang Hsien-Chung, known as the Yellow Tiger, from 1643 to 1647 in the Szechwan province has been put at 40 million people.

China under Mao Tse Tung, 26.3 million Chinese. According the Walker Report, 63.7 million over the whole period of time of the Communist revolution in China. Solzhenitsyn says the Soviet Union put to death 66.7 million people. Kampuchea destroyed one third of their entire population of eight million Cambodians. The Chinese at two different times in medieval history, somewhere in the vicinity of 35 million and 40 million people. Ladies and gentlemen, make note that these deaths were the result of organizations or points of view or ideologies that had left God out of the equation. None of these involve religion. And all but the very last actually assert atheism.”
http://www.inplainsite.org/html/atheism_or_ch...

[“It’s time to abandon the mindlessly-repeated mantra that religious belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence. Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.”]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7837 Dec 7, 2012
The 2004 to 2007 publicity campaign for atheism was not sustainable. Public interest is not coming back

Atheism experienced a surge of public interest due to some best selling books in the years 2004 - 2007, but the interest was not sustainable. The media hype surrounding these books and the books themselves did not gain any significant amount of new adherents to atheism in the United States. In March of 2008, the newspaper USA Today noted that survey data failed to show any discernible increase in the amount of atheists due to this publicity campaign.

The public's interest in evolutionism is now declining and global atheism is shrinking in adherents and market share.

http://questionevolution.blogspot.com/2012/07...

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7838 Dec 7, 2012
“I have heard atheists argue that moral obligation is simply a description of how we evolved. But that cannot be so. It is not a description of how we act because we universally admit violation of it! Rather, it is prescriptive: it does not describe a certain code of conduct, but rather, prescribes a code of conduct. Moral obligation, like the laws of logic, are prescriptive and not simply descriptive. Therefore, moral obligation is objective and not simply subjective.

Lest I be misunderstood, let me freely admit that subjectivity is an attribute of the moral law - God holds us accountable for what we know in accordance with our nature and relations. The conscience is not totally developed at birth. As the intelligence develops, the sentient being becomes aware of how he wants to be treated and what kind of behavior results in happiness. In this way, he comes to grip with his moral obligation to treat his neighbors and His Creator with benevolence so as to promote happiness. Society and parental upbringing play important roles in the development of the conscience, but no sane person is justified for wrongdoing because of an immoral society or wicked parents. The environment is an influence upon us but not a cause. We have free wills and have the power of contrary choice in every temptation, and this is presupposed in all criminal justice systems just as it is presupposed in debate. The moral law is external to self, objective, and universal inasmuch that it respects the motive and intent of the heart. All men know that malevolent behavior is always objectively bad and wrong and benevolent behavior is always objectively good and right. Outward behavior may differ, but moral obligation respects outward behavior only indirectly. Moral obligation directly respects a state of heart. Love is the sum of all of God's law. No man will be able to plead ignorance on Judgment Day, because he is fully aware of the state of heart that moral obligation impresses upon him. All sane men know all they need to know to be obligated to love God and their neighbors as themselves.”
http://rightremedy.org/booklets/47

[“... moral obligation is simply a description of how we evolved... that cannot be so. It is not a description of how we act because we universally admit violation of it ...”]

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#7839 Dec 7, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are one of the densest humans I've ever encountered.
You need to get it through your thick head that my posts to this forum do not have to meet with your specifications, and there is no requirement of me to defend internet internet sources I link to, nor is there any requirement to answer any poster at any time.
Correct. You have the ability to be a spamming troll if you wish. And you have clearly chosen that path.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7840 Dec 7, 2012
Christopher Hitchens: Another Atheist Full of Hate?

Father Raymond de Souza writes about Christopher Hitchens in the National Post that he was a hateful man, meaning he was full of hate. I personally knew from some YouTube videos and listening to his brother Peter Hitchens, former atheist, the hate that he had for religion of all stripes, some possibly justified but far from all.

On the other hand is hatred ever justified?

I did not know that he was a socialist for some time before he wisened up and became a conservative. I often admired his articles on various issues which took this stance. However I had no idea of the points Raymond de Souza brought out in this article below.

I have often asked self-labelled atheists, if they wanted to become like Richard Dawkins who seizes every opportunity to deride the perceived religious, especially Christians. How can a man like Dawkins claim to be so smart if he takes such sadistic pleasure in mocking the beliefs of others? Why can’t an atheist disagree in silence the way we Christians often have to realizing we cannot change the mind of a man who appears that he is on the way to madness?

I asked my friend Brian, an agnostic, if a person with the angry behaviour of Richard Dawkins or Madelyn Murray Ohair or Christopher Hitchens was the angry person he wanted to become. I have noticed that the more evangelical atheists are, the more hateful and mocking they become of any other belief. Surely this most obvious characteristic can not be admired in anyone.

continued:
http://www.cpedley.com/news-of-the-world/athe...

[“... the more evangelical atheists are, the more hateful and mocking they become of any other belief. Surely this most obvious characteristic can not be admired in anyone.”

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