Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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#7791
Dec 6, 2012
 

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[continuation of “Why Atheism Fails: The Four Big Bangs”:]

“Attack with how unscientific theism is, how religious people aren’t very smart because they don’t chair any departments in the hard sciences at the right schools (it’s really called censorship). Raise the problem of evil: How could an omnipo-tent, loving God allow evil? Either God is not all powerful and can’t destroy it, or He doesn’t want to. Either way there can’t be a God because evil exists (don’t bring up the existence of good though, it’s too problematic). And, finally, go for the jugular with the hypocrisy of religious believers (You know, mention “all the wars in the name of religion,” and “all the fallen pastors” and especially,“the founders owned slaves” stuff, it’s really a good distraction.)

Avoid the pesky problem of freewill. If atheism is true, if all that exists is mere matter and energy, then I don’t have a brain, I am my brain. But if the brain is exhaustively physical, then it is just as incapable of acting freely as a computer or any other machine. Which is why the idea of Artificial Intelligence makes for such fun science fiction – the more peo-ple believe that a computer can become a person, the less likely they will have need to believe they were created in God’s image. Thus, more AI, less theism – that’s the game plan. Same with the search for ET. Find life elsewhere so we can dismiss Genesis.

But, above all, avoid being cornered and forced to answer the questions of origins. Throw out lots of words that people can’t understand. Talk over them. Blind them with science. Talk about the details of the leaves on the trees but don’t allow them to bring it back to “Why the forest at all?” Assert the fact/value distinction. Claim that only science deals with knowledge. Drop in some postmodern gobbledygook. Distract them with how science deals with the “what, where, how and when” and not the “who and the why.” Especially avoid people who have had training in the philosophy of science – they’re dangerous because they see through us and know who we are – they don’t see the shimmering lab coats that everyone else sees. They don’t see any clothes at all.

Since the pre-Socratics, atheists have been intellectual parasites living off the host of Western Civilization. Able to con-struct so very little of their own that is either true, good, or beautiful, they live on the borrowed capital of their believing intellectual parents. Atheists have been asserting the same basic mechanistic worldview, and with roughly the same suc-cess, for centuries. They sell books and win converts from time to time, sure, especially among those gullible enough to buy the “just popped” thesis. Don’t be gullible.

But, for me, the real value of atheism lies in bolstering belief in God. When I doubt, I can begin to doubt my doubts by returning to the Four Big Bangs. And, I eventually fall to my knees and worship,“In the beginning, God.”
http://townhall.com/columnists/frankpastore/2...

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#7792
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Soldiers of the Cross
THE SALVATION ARMY STORY

The way the World War II veterans in my hometown told the story, The Salvation Army was always there. On the front lines, where the shelling was worst, in the churning hell of war where even medics sometimes feared to tread, the men would look up and there they were. The distinctive colors of The Salvation Army would be in the thick of it as often as not, living out their slogan, "Heart to God, Hand to Man."

We witnessed and experienced the same service and care in Northridge, California, in January 1994. The Army's relief trucks were the first through the carnage of the most costly earthquake in American history.

When my editor felt we needed background on the people we see on almost every street corner in December collecting for the poor and needy, I looked forward to telling the story. It was a debt I felt I owed to the men and women who seem to be there when the going gets toughest.

The story begins in London, England, in the 1860s. The elegant heart of the British Empire was not always a pretty place. In the midst of Victorian opulence and splendor, the lives of those who were not able to keep up in the churning, expanding industrial democracy were often dispirited and hopeless.

In London, 30 percent of the people fell habitually below the poverty line. Parts of the city were described as "an ever-spreading pool of stagnant misery." Vice thrived. Mortality rates were horrific.

Into this scene of near-total despair, of class division, disease, prostitution, drunkenness and malnutrition, walked a turbulent dynamo of a man and his wife, former zealots in the Methodist religion--William and Catherine Booth.

William had been an impulsive and headstrong youth. He had broken with the Methodists when he was refused permission to be an itinerant evangelist.

The sun never sets on the Army tricolor. It is a restless banner, proclaiming its Gospel message in nearly 100 countries around the world.... Banned for four decades in countries oppressed by atheistic communism, it marches forward once again in the triumph of the cross.”- Henry Gariepy, General of God's Army”
http://www.ptm.org/NovSalvArmy.htm

[“Banned for four decades in countries oppressed by atheistic communism, it marches forward once again in the triumph of the cross.”]

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#7793
Dec 6, 2012
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
So you believe Hitler. I guess that's no surprise. You seem to believe a lot crap.
The poster is also typical of atheists, lol. They say they want to discuss an issue, but they have no intention of doing so. They simply continue to present the same endless lies and circular arguments regardless of credible rebuttals, so there is no need for discussion - that's why I refer them back to the links I provide. It is a well establised fact that Hitler was not a Christian, and link after link of non-Christian web sources have confirmed it. Anyone can falsely claim to be something they are not. Actions speak louder than words. Hitler tried to destroy Christianity. He failed, just as atheists will always fail. Christianity is here to stay.

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#7794
Dec 6, 2012
 

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An atheist writes:

“Why I Refuse to Donate to the Salvation Army”

“There are many worthwhile charities in Mississippi who do good work locally. Of course, nobody has enough money to support all of them. In selecting which organizations to support, it seems like there are some fairly obvious decision points. For example, I refuse to support organizations that engage in any form of bigotry or religious proselytizing. Sadly, this excludes the Salvation Army and the local chapter of the United Way.

Pam's House Blend recently reminded us that the Salvation Army discriminates against LGBT individuals on religious grounds. They also discriminate against non-Christians in their hiring practices even though they receive federal funds. As far as I am concerned, this is more than enough to exclude them as a charity I am interested in supporting.

I am not denying that the Salvation Army and similar groups can do good in Mississippi and elsewhere. However, I would prefer to support charitable organizations that do not find it necessary to discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation or religion.
http://www.msatheists.org/2009/12/why-i-refus...

[Better hope a storm doesn't tear up your house. If it does, the Salvation Army would probably be there.]

[I think the Salvation Army can survive without your pennies.]

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#7795
Dec 6, 2012
 
“The National Atheist Party seeks to politically represent U.S. atheists and all who share the goal of a secular government by gathering the political strength of secularists nationwide while being guided by the values of secular humanism and evidenced-based reasoning.


The National Atheist Party is a Constitutional movement dedicated to the preservation of the Founding Fathers’ vision of a secular nation. We are a progressive secular political organization whose current incarnation is as a non-profit 527 political organization. As we grow and evolve, we intend and expect to develop into a full-fledged political party. We are assembled for two important reasons: to give a political voice to U.S. atheists, who have never enjoyed political representation before; and to stand athwart those elements and groups that would seek to undermine the secular foundations of this great country.

The National Atheist Party is open to people of all races, sexes and sexual orientations, and cultures. We are committed to a government free of superstition and bias and are guided by principles of equal opportunity, recognition of merit, and economic responsibility. The National Atheist Party does not seek to inhibit the religious practices or beliefs of any group, but is committed to the idea that religious preference is a private matter and has no place in the government or workplace. We support the separation of church and state, and seek to ensure its strictest interpretation.
http://www.usanap.org/

[“religious preference is a private matter and has no place in the government or workplace”
How about atheism – does it have a place in the government or workplace? If so, why?]

[“religious preference is a private matter”- so religion is to be hidden, not spoken about, like in Communist Russia? Isn't atheism a “private matter”?- or is it to be shouted from the rooftops and proclaimed by our politicians? The majority voice -the voters - will win in the United States. Most Americans do not and will not ever support atheism.]

[“... we intend and expect to develop into a full-fledged political party”- LMAO – feel free to try, but you're going nowhere......]

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#7796
Dec 6, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for admitting your belief in hell. They're warming it up fer 'ya.
Yes, I love you sadistic people with a delusion, you make excellent comedic fodder.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#7797
Dec 6, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
“Why Atheism Fails: The Four Big Bangs”
Their titles sound so confident:
The Atheist Manifesto: The Case Against Christianity, Judaism and Islam by Michel Onfray.
God is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything by Christopher Hitchens.
Letter to a Christian Nation: A Challenge to Faith by Sam Harris.
and of course, The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.
Yet, like all atheists before them, they still can’t answer the fundamental questions of origins.
1) What is the origin of the universe? Why is there something rather than nothing? How do you get matter and energy from nothingness? How do you get a rock out of nothing?
2) What is the origin of life? How do you get life from non-life? How do you go from a rock to a tree?
3) What is the origin of mind? How does a living thing become a self-conscious being? How do you go from a tree, to an animal, to a human?
4) What is the origin of good and evil? How does an amoral being become morally aware?
Atheists respond to all these types of questions with essentially the same style answer.“We know God doesn’t exist. Therefore, since we’re here, though, it had to have happened this way. Thus, like the universe itself, life, mind, and mo-rality all ‘just popped’ into existence out of nothingness.”
I call them the Four Big Bangs:
1’) the Cosmological (the universe “just popped” into existence out of nothingness).
2’) the Biological (life “just popped” into existence out of a dead thing).
3’) the Psychological (mind “just popped” into existence out of a brain).
4’) and the Moral (morality “just popped” into existence out of amorality).
For their many obfuscating words, the authors still don’t improve much beyond the “just popped” thesis, if at all.
I was an atheist for 27 years. I used to play on that team. I used to pick on religious people too. I knew the arguments to press and those to avoid.
[CONTINUED IN NEXT POST]
I assume you have taken the road of being a spamming troll. If you want to actually carry on a conversation, please post something you are willing to defend.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

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#7798
Dec 6, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
So you can argue in a circle for 20 posts that go nowhere about it?
No one tells me what, how, or when to post, and my participation in the forum creates no obligation to respond to you in any way, shape or form. We have opposing views, and we always will. It is not essential that we agree, and I couldn't care less if we ever do, nor do I feel any compelling desire to convince you of the material I post. In other words, your opinion really makes me no difference whatsoever.
You don't like the material I posted, so take it up with the link that was provided, or let it go – the choice is yours. But - you're rather dense not to catch on after being told that 3 or 4 times. That's rather typical of trolls and atheists.
So you admit to being a spamming troll. OK, I can deal with that.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#7799
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Jesus ate yours and is still munching on it now.

Talking snakes lmfao!
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Did your zombies eat your brain?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#7800
Dec 6, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Jesus ate yours and is still munching on it now.
Talking snakes lmfao!
<quoted text>
Hey now, I heard a snake talk. Of course that was back when I smoked pot ... and I think the TV was on, but I swear I heard my friend's boa say "you want a hamburger" or some such thing, those temptresses, always knowing what you want.

Since: Mar 11

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#7801
Dec 6, 2012
 
So maybe Adam and Eve were just stoned out of their minds?
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey now, I heard a snake talk. Of course that was back when I smoked pot ... and I think the TV was on, but I swear I heard my friend's boa say "you want a hamburger" or some such thing, those temptresses, always knowing what you want.

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#7802
Dec 6, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what's meant by "free will" in the context of Christianity.
<quoted text>
Christians typically shift the blame for failures and shortcomings in the world to man and devils. If possibilities for man are limited in any sense, you need to blame the omnipotent and omniscient one that chose to make him that way, not man himself.
<quoted text>
Why would that be necessary for an omnipotent god?
<quoted text>
Then you are in a small minority of Christians.
<quoted text>
How is that worship? I have tried to emulate a variety of role models in my lifetime, but worship none of them.
This is the whole point of the fall of man. God can not create imperfection, hence, man had to choose to transition to a "fallen" state where he could learn by experience, outside of the presence of God. Not only did man fall, but all that God created changed to become "corrupt" or able to deteriorate and die. There are eternal laws that God must obey. In order for us to learn and grow, we must have experience.

“I Am No One Else”

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Seattle

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#7803
Dec 6, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
So maybe Adam and Eve were just stoned out of their minds?
<quoted text>
Oh man, you just blew my mind dude! That's actually .... possible.

(I should star in a stoner movie, no?:P)

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#7804
Dec 6, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Sam is a Mormon. He thinks Yahweh is giving him his own planet.
<quoted text>
I am a Mormon, and I don't believe that God is giving me a planet...or anyone else for that matter.

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#7805
Dec 6, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
One fascinating revelation of the Internet experience is seeing how you Christians each seem to have your own private version of your religion.
With all due respect, it is of little interest to secularists exactly what doctrine each individual Christian ascribes to. We are mostly concerned with the public face that the collective presents. Mormons are only a small part of that, and any one Mormon alone is an even smaller part.
You seem like a cut above most of the rest, for which I commend you. But you must realize that that doesn't mitigate the problem at all.
When I discuss the public face of Christian doctrine, I am referring to the antisemitism, homophobia, atheophobia, misogyny, misanthropy, pathological prudery, continual lying, and the hatred for science.
You might actually object to all of it, which would be to your credit, wouldn't mitigate the problem at all.
<quoted text>
Like I said, you each seem to have your own religion.
<quoted text>
Not the god of the Christian bible.
I understand what you are saying, but I don't think it is fair to take all the Christian ideologies, boil them down to concentrated glop, pull the slag off the top and say that it is representative of Christians as a whole. When I was in highschool I took a world religion class and the most difficult section I studied was the section on "Christianity" because personally I consider myself a Christian, but mainstream Christian teachings make little sense to me.

The Christianity I embrace empowers men and women, accepts all scientific evidence as an increased understanding of the workings of God, and accepts all mankind as children of God. We don't hate the Jews, we love them! They have given us more than half of the scripture we have now!

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#7806
Dec 6, 2012
 
Thinking wrote:
The bible says jesus endorses slavery.
<quoted text>
Where?

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#7807
Dec 6, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Evolving christian religions to better fit reality instead of denying reality because it never fits the mythology. That is what a delusion is, and every theist has that delusion, You should get help, but since you won't you are useless.
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints isn't an evolution of Christian theology. Its a restoration, not a reformation.

This is why Mormons are so different, they didn't rewind Christianity 800 or 1500 years. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints represents the same principle church and organization that existed when Christ was on the earth.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#7808
Dec 6, 2012
 
You morons I mean Mormons are funny. And yes Mormons believe they will get their own planet and become gods themselves.

Joseph smith once wrote that there were great cities on the moon and the people there were far advanced compared to us and they lived forever.

Wow was he wrong :))

I can't believe you morons errrr Mormons fall for this Bullsht.

Still crying over Mitt Romney?
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a Mormon, and I don't believe that God is giving me a planet...or anyone else for that matter.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#7809
Dec 6, 2012
 
Rock on Momma! Burn a bud and play the role of Eve :)
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh man, you just blew my mind dude! That's actually .... possible.
(I should star in a stoner movie, no?:P)

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#7810
Dec 6, 2012
 
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
I am a Mormon, and I don't believe that God is giving me a planet...or anyone else for that matter.
Then you are lying about being a Mormon, or you are a newb, or you are just trying to save face. All of which are of equal possibility. Kingdom was interpreted to mean a planet by Joseph Smith, which ironically makes more sense than most christian idiotic myths about magic, voodoo, and poofing.

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