Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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7,301 - 7,320 of 11,175 Comments Last updated Jan 18, 2014
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#7741
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Just returning to the subject of zombies. We know from our everyday experience people do not raise from the dead. The idea that hundreds or thousands of people can raise from the dead and wander around the place, without causing a stir, is totally absurd. We can conclude the contradictory gospel accounts are ficticious and christianity an unreliable and false belief system. Whether a God exists or not is another question. But without a religion, this hypothetical question is unimportant.

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

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#7742
Dec 6, 2012
 
Yes several dead Jews get up and walk into jeruselum and nobody thought a thing about it. Lmfao!

There must have been a chariot race that day. I can hear Moses now... Oy vey I rise from the dead an walk up in here and nobody pays me any attention anymore! Aaron will hear about this I tell you! Aw where is some locusts when you really need them?
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
It gets even more bizarre than that!
According to the gospel of Matthew, following the resurrection of Jesus, the deceased saints rose from their graves and wandered through the streets of Jerusalem.
Later gospel writers knew this was a fiction, so conveniently left it out. This event in itself is enough to convincingly disprove Christianity.
Unless zombies wandering around Jerusalem was an everyday occurance. In that case maybe historians didnt think it was worth a mention :) lmao

Since: Jun 07

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#7743
Dec 6, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Becsuse he said he was And you believe him? LOL
Dolt!
Do you believe this?
What a sucker! You would believe anything Hitler said! Yes Hitler called himself a Christian. You believe him!
Why would he lie? You need to learn what a Christian is. Hitler was no Christian.
"Hitler was not a Christain or a Christian. I have zero interest in your spelling problems or your other problems, but as for Hitler, you will get the same answer any and every time in one form or another any time you want to say Hitler was a Christian. This is not open to dispute, since Hitler was not a Christian.
Was Hitler a Christian?
October 30, 1999
Dear Straight Dope:
In my numerous online debates in various chatrooms, I have learned the following: many Christians seem to think that Adolf Hitler was an atheist (or at least wasn't "Christian"). Of course I and my fellow atheists know better, as Hitler mentions his devotion to Christianity numerous times in his writings. Can you clear this up for me? Was Hitler an "honest to God" Christian, or was he simply using religion as a means of control?- Carl Stieger
The short answer is a definite "maybe" or, more precisely, "probably neither." The looooong answer is somewhat more complicated.
You are right that Hitler did mention Christianity many times in his writings. He paid Christianity a lot of lip service in Mein Kampf, and he claimed to be a Christian. But Hitler's secretary, Martin Bormann, also declared that "National Socialism [Nazism] and Christianity are irreconcilable" and Hitler didn't squawk too much about it. Similarly, Hermann Rauschning, a Hitler associate, said, "One is either a Christian or a German. You can't be both." In addition, Hitler declared Nazism the state religion and the Bible was replaced by Mein Kampf in the schools.
First, let's look at what he said that seems to put him on the anti-Christian side:
According to a press release from Catholic League President, William A. Donohue (2/4/99): "Hitler was a neo-pagan terrorist whose conscience was not informed by Christianity, but by pseudo-scientific racist philosophies. Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933, Hitler said,'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'"
[further down, within the text:]
“... atheists looking for a quick cheap-shot may claim Hitler was a Christian; similarly, Christians looking for a quick shot may claim he was an atheist. Know what? Hitler was a vegetarian! Oooh, those evil vegetarians! He also recommended that parents give their children milk to drink instead of beer and started the first anti-smoking campaign.(So by the "reasoning" used in these types of arguments, if you are truly anti-Hitler, you should smoke heavily and only give your baby beer!) Better watch out, though he was an oxygen-breather, too! In other words, does it really matter whether Hitler was an atheist or a Christian or whatever? Just because somebody may hold a particular worldview (along with other views) doesn't make him a spokesman for that view, or even remotely representative of others who hold that view.”"
continued:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1699...
Hitler was catholic, it said "in god we trust" on every single nazi belt. Not saying that all catholics are nazis.

Just saying that hitler was a catholic and that he wasn't an atheist like you creationist like to lie about all the time to further your foolish agenda.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#7744
Dec 6, 2012
 
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
Hitler was catholic
Really? I'm not sure I get this. Maybe in a cultural, general sense.

But christianity has at its core belief the worship of a Jew as God. So Hitler hated Jews, but worshiped one as god? Doesnt seem to add up to me. Agree?
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#7745
Dec 6, 2012
 
Derek wrote:
<quoted text>
Couple of straight forward questions from today. Yes or no answers ok..

1. Did zombies roam through the streets of Jerusalem?

2. Do you worship a Jew as God?

3. Do you think Jesus was a zombie?
Thinking

UK

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#7746
Dec 6, 2012
 
Hitler was an Austrian catholic leader of a majority lutheran Germany. Luther was very anti semitic.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_Their_L...
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? I'm not sure I get this. Maybe in a cultural, general sense.
But christianity has at its core belief the worship of a Jew as God. So Hitler hated Jews, but worshiped one as god? Doesnt seem to add up to me. Agree?
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#7747
Dec 6, 2012
 
Thinking wrote:
Hitler was an Austrian catholic leader of a majority lutheran Germany. Luther was very anti semitic.
<quoted text>
Point taken. These anti semitic christians must have been very conflicted. Following a jewish religion, and worshiping a jew, but hating jews at the same time.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#7748
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Dude Christianity only came about after Christ. Before that the faith was called Jewish. Come on you know that.
You really don't understand your own religion, do you? The Christ myth only came about because of "original sin". So, if there was no original sin, there was no need for the blood sacrifice of a redeemer on a cross. Without a literally true Garden of Eden, there is no foundation for any part of your mythology.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

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#7749
Dec 6, 2012
 
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Point taken. These anti semitic christians must have been very conflicted. Following a jewish religion, and worshiping a jew, but hating jews at the same time.
Like Mel Gibson.

Since: Aug 12

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#7750
Dec 6, 2012
 
heres some stuff about hitler,,,Hitlers involvement with the Church:

a) Hitler was baptized as Roman Catholic during infancy in Austria.

b) As Hitler approached boyhood he attended a monastery school.(On his way to school young Adolf daily observed a stone arch which was carved with the monasterys coat of arms bearing a swastika.)

c) Hitler was a communicant and an altar boy in the Catholic Church.

d) As a young man he was confirmed as a soldier of Christ. His most ardent goal at the time was to become a priest. Hitler writes of his love for the church and clergy:I had excellent opportunity to intoxicate myself with the solemn splendor of the brilliant church festivals. As was only natural, the abbot seemed to me, as the village priest had once seemed to my father, the highest and most desirable ideal.-Adolf Hitler (Mein Kampf)

e) Hitler was NEVER excommunicated nor condemned by his church. Matter of fact the Church felt he was JUST and avenging for God in attacking the Jews for they deemed the Semites the killers of Jesus.

f) Hitler, Franco and Mussolini were given VETO power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. In turn they surtaxed the Catholics and gave the money to the Vatican. Hitler wrote a speech in which he talks about this alliance, this is an excerpt:The fact that the Vatican is concluding a treaty with the new Germany means the acknowledgement of the National Socialist state by the Catholic Church. This treaty shows the whole world clearly and unequivocally that the assertion that National Socialism [Nazism] is hostile to religion is a lie. Adolf Hitler, 22 July 1933, writing to the Nazi Party

Hitler worked CLOSELY with Pope Pius in converting Germanic society and supporting the church. The Church absorbed Nazi ideals and preached them as part of their sermons in turn Hitler placed Catholic teachings in public education. This photo depicts Hitler with Archbishop Cesare Orsenigo, the papal nuncio in Berlin. It was taken On April 20, 1939, when Orsenigo celebrated Hitlers birthday. The celebrations were initiated by Pacelli (Pope Pius XII) and became a tradition.

Each April 20, Cardinal Bertram of Berlin was to send warmest congratulations to the Fuhrer in the name of the bishops and the dioceses in Germany with fervent prayers which the Catholics of Germany are sending to heaven on their altars.(If you would like to know more about the secret dealings of Hitler and the Pope I recommend you get a book titled: Hitlers Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII, by John Cornwell)

h) Due to Hitlers involvement with the Church he began enacting doctrines of the Church as law. He outlawed all abortion, raged a death war on all homosexuals, and demanded corporal punishment in schools and home. Many times Hitler addressed the church and promised that Germany would implement its teachings:The National Socialist State professes its allegiance to positive Christianity. It will be its honest endeavor to protect both the great Christian Confessions in their rights, to secure them from interference with their doctrines (Lehren), and in their duties to constitute a harmony with the views and the exigencies of the State of today.Adolf Hitler, on 26 June 1934, to Catholic bishops to assure them that he would take action against the new pagan propaganda Providence has caused me to be Catholic, and I know therefore how to handle this Church.-Adolf Hitler, reportedly to have said in Berlin in 1936 on the enmity of the Catholic Church to National Socialism
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Couple of straight forward questions from today. Yes or no answers ok..
1. Did zombies roam through the streets of Jerusalem?
2. Do you worship a Jew as God?
3. Do you think Jesus was a zombie?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

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#7751
Dec 6, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Are you shaking the Scary Chicken On A Stick at us now, too?

"Oogah boogah. Abracadabra, please and thank you. Shlemiel, shlemazel, hasenpfeffer incorporated. Eenie meenie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak."
I miss Rocky and Bullwinkle.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#7752
Dec 6, 2012
 

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Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
You really don't understand your own religion, do you? The Christ myth only came about because of "original sin". So, if there was no original sin, there was no need for the blood sacrifice of a redeemer on a cross. Without a literally true Garden of Eden, there is no foundation for any part of your mythology.
Its a great point, worth repeating.

Since: Nov 11

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#7754
Dec 6, 2012
 
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Couple of straight forward questions from today. Yes or no answers ok..
1. Did zombies roam through the streets of Jerusalem?
2. Do you worship a Jew as God?
3. Do you think Jesus was a zombie?
I am still waiting for (your)couple of straight forward questions.

I'll make just one simple observation:

I may be right about this, or I may not, but I believe you may one day return to your Christian faith.

In the meanwhile, you're on this forum trying too hard [it shows, lol] to impress your fellow godless, here-today-gone-tommorrow atheist friends... and you're going nowhere with it.

The Christians don't care that you debase yourself, and the atheists would never miss you whether you were here or not.

Since: Nov 11

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#7755
Dec 6, 2012
 
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
You claimed that living matter cannot come from non-living matter and I pointed out that *all* living matter is built from non-living matter, that the only difference between living and non-living matter is organization. You have offered no refutation of this point.
I claimed?

AGAIN: YOU say I claimed?

I repeat, your reference is to content of web page material. Although I post material I often agree with, the author of the web page is the source of what you are apparently disputing. If you're alleging it was a direct quote from ME, you are mistaken, as it is my policy to pass along scientific observations by way of linked sources. I am not a biological scientist, and don't pretend to be. Neither are you, by your own admission.

As I have repeatedly commented to you and the forum, if you object to content, you should express those concerns to the web page you question. I cannot and would not change what the link says.

This will not be readdressed.

Since: Nov 11

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#7756
Dec 6, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Total number of Derek4's that are idiots: All.
You don't convert to atheism, atheist is just a label for those of us who don't buy into the scam and delusion that is called god. You are an atheist to a lot of religions, we just don't buy into your notions either.
Go to google, type this in:convert definition.

This is what you will find:

Verb - Cause to change in form, character, or function.
Noun - A person who has been persuaded to change their religious faith or other beliefs.

So, if a person is a Christian, but they have been persuaded to change their religious faith or other beliefs[to the belief there is no God] they have converted from Christianity to atheism, or at least agnosticism.

I notice you were once a Mormon. You converted to atheism from Mormonism.

I don't have notions for you to buy into, LMAO nor is the Christian faith a notion.

Do you think I would care what you buy into?[Don't overrate yourself.]

I should have a burden for your soul, but you have blasphemed God and made your choice, so it's rather difficult to feel sorry for you. I'm not here to try to convert you. God will see that you get what you are due.

Since: Nov 11

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#7757
Dec 6, 2012
 
correction on my post to Kitten:

I wrote, "I notice you were once a Mormon. You converted to atheism from Mormonism."

I should have written: "You converted from Mormonism to atheism."

Since: Nov 11

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#7758
Dec 6, 2012
 
QUESTION:
My boss gave me a gift card to a Christian bookstore with a note saying I should buy a Bible and read it. I feel very strongly that this it is religious discrimination and harrassment.

ANSWER:
Gregory Paul :
Darn right a boss giving someone a Bible etc. is inappropriate. How would he like it if he got a copy of Darwin, or Ayn Rand's views of atheism? Unfortunately religious folks are often very touchy about this sort of thing, so your boss is not likely to be trying to engage in a back and forth. If it does become a problem over time you might want to show him the WP op-ed this essy is a follow up to. I hear others are using for such purposes.

QUESTION:
I have to tell you that as a believer who really doesn't give a hoot what other people believe or don't believe, most of the prejudice I've encountered has been from atheists who, with varying degrees of good grace, suggest that I'm stupid or ill-informed for my beliefs. My supervisor at work who is an atheist, and who never misses an opportunity to tell everyone around him that he is, insists on giving me a hard time every single year when I ask for annual leave for religious observation. Company policy requires that he sign my request, but he loves to hassle me.
http://live.washingtonpost.com/atheists-fed-u...

Since: Nov 11

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#7759
Dec 6, 2012
 
The Loneliness of Atheism

One of SHAFTs primary functions is as a social sanctuary of sorts. In so religious a state as ours, where people with no religious beliefs are sometimes ostracized, its important that atheists/agnostics find like-minded or sympathetic company. Otherwise, being an atheist/agnostic in Utah can be a lonely experience.

Ive had the good fortune never to experience that kind of lonelinessat least not for extended periods of time. Both my family and friends are accepting of my atheism, so my relationships havent suffered for it. If anything, my social life has been enhanced as an atheist, having met a lot of extraordinary people through SHAFT.

No, the loneliness I feel is more profound, more persistent. Its a loneliness that isnt diminished even when Im surrounded by people. Its that feeling that youre stuck in your own headthat because you cannot express every thought, nobody will ever truly know you.

This, of course, is nothing unique to atheists. Perhaps its the human condition. But this mind-as-prison loneliness, for me, worsened without a belief in god.
http://usureason.com/2011/the-loneliness-of-a...

[It must be horrible.]

WHAT IS SHAFT?

About
The Utah State University Secular Humanists, Atheists, and Free Thinkers club aims to promote the ideals of scientific inquiry, critical thinking, secularism, and humanist ethics on Utah States campus. We hope to enrich USU campus life by sponsoring educational events and fostering student dialogue on matters of faith, science, and reason.

Mission Statement
Our philosophy is informed by the methods of science, is free from dogma, and is open to revision at any time as more compelling reasons and new evidence are presented. We believe that free inquiry, and empirical investigation when possible, lead to a more accurate understanding of the universe and our place in it than does revelation, faith, or authority.
http://reasonutah.org/groups/shaft/

[Notice all the references to science. Atheist try to tell you science has nothing to do with atheism. It's B.S., lol.]

Since: Nov 11

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#7760
Dec 6, 2012
 
This is something that few secularists admit: atheism is quite lonely. Not just existentially, but socially as well. Secularism does not offer the sense of fellowship you find in religion. Watching old Christopher Hitchens debates on YouTube with a like-minded sceptic is entertaining, but I doubt it's as nourishing as Sunday Mass.

This doesn't make the claims of religion true.[DOESN'T MAKE THEM UNTRUE EITHER; LOL] For what its worth, I doubt them as much as Evan Davis. But I recognise that atheism has a long way to go to provide a complete and compelling alternative to religion.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/culture/guystagg...

[The loneliness and exclusionary life of the atheist... always on the outside looking in]

Since: Nov 11

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#7761
Dec 6, 2012
 
Excerpt #1 from:Lonely Atheists of the Global Village

My Agno-Theistic Daughter and How She Got That Way

A few years back, our daughter revealed to us that she was "an agno-theist." (Every well-ordered Catholic family should have one.) When she went off to Duke, she thought she was an atheist. She certainly found plenty of atheism in the air there. Not that everybody was atheist; far from it. Only that the working assumption in practically all public discourse was that every serious person is an atheist. Thoughtful religious people kept quiet about their own beliefs.

Yet it didn't take my daughter long to see through the pretenses of atheism. In the first place, the fundamental doctrine seemed to be that everything that is, came to be through chance and natural selection. In other words, at bottom, everything is irrational, chancy, without purpose or ultimate intelligibility. What got to her most was the affectation of professors pretending that everything is ultimately absurd, while in more proximate matters putting all their trust in science, rationality, and mathematical calculation. She decided that atheists could not accept the implications of their own metaphysical commitments. While denying the principle of rationality "all the way down," they wished to cling to all the rationalities on the surface of things. My daughter found this unconvincing.

She decided that atheism cannot be true, because it is self-contradictory. Moreover, this self-contradiction is willful, and its latent purpose is pathetically transparent. Atheists want all the comforts of the rationality that emanates from rational theism, but without personal indebtedness to any Creator, Governor, Judge. That is why they allow themselves to be rationalists only part of the way down. The alternative makes them very nervous.

My daughter concluded that it was more reasonable to believe that there is a God, who made all things. But she couldn't figure out how this made any difference to her personally. Why did such a god care about her, or anything else? What practical difference did such a god make in the world? Besides, she wasn't at all sure how even to think of such a god, whether as image or as concept. About all these things she found herself agnostic. That's why she called herself an "agno-theist."

It seemed odd to my daughter that there can be so much reason in the world, while there is no reason for the world, even with its manifest irrationalities.(She herself painfully experienced many irrational tragedies among her so-promising, intelligent, gifted friends, prematurely struck down in their youth.) Our daughter is no Pollyanna. She has always been perceptive of the dark, irrational side of life. What surprises her is the degree of rationality in all things, not the presence of absurdities. What surprised her in her professors was the self-contradiction at the root of their lives.
http://www.aei.org/article/society-and-cultur...

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