Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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#7721
Dec 5, 2012
 
Thinking wrote:
<quoted text>jesus endorses slavery, the fuckwad.
Nothing wrong with it! LOL

It would be a perfect career for the likes of you.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

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#7722
Dec 5, 2012
 

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polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly you have nothing to say that refutes my argument. I'm not at all unhappy. I am simply waiting for you to say something intelligent. I have a feeling it may well be a long wait.
What you'll find is that Dim doesn't refute arguments - he runs away and comes back with more cut + pastes for us to refute.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#7723
Dec 5, 2012
 
Joseph smith was one I the most deceitful con men in American history.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I don't.
“A Reflection On The Prophet Joseph Smith”
Throughout my life, I have had several experiences which have led me to believe that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God. Although some may question the validity of the claim that Joseph Smith is a prophet of God, I know that he is. The faith and knowledge we acquire in our lifetime is the result of experiences that have been placed upon us by wise teachers and the Lord, or experiences that we have sought out ourselves. By seeking experiences that provide evidence that support the validity of Joseph Smith, I have received an endowment of faith from God and a blessing of knowledge that Joseph Smith is a prophet and that the gospel that was revealed through Joseph Smith is God’s truth.
In my youth, I was blessed with the opportunity to mature in a very diverse area of the country and subsequently found myself with friends from Korea, Iran, France, India, Germany, China, Israel, and other countries. It was mainly during my high school years that I surrounded myself with a variety of friends from various backgrounds. Having friends from different ethnic and cultural backgrounds helped me to appreciate all kinds of diversity, different traditions, varying religious convictions, and a wide range of attitudes towards organized religion. I had friends who ranged from the very devout Catholic, to the cultural Hindu, and all the way to the ex-Muslim turned atheist. Given our wide diversity, it was quite frequent that we would engage in discussions regarding our cultural and theological backgrounds. I love my friends and I often struggled with reconciling my religious convictions with theirs. One day, I was talking with a friend who is an adamant atheist. We talked about God and I began asking why it was that he did not believe in God. At the conclusion of our discussion, I realized that the only reason why my friends had different convictions than me was because they had different experiences than I had. Or in other words, they lacked many of the religious experiences which led me to believe the way I do. From that time on, I determined to identify why I believed what I believed and to seek additional experiences to fortify my belief in God and his restored gospel on the earth.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#7724
Dec 5, 2012
 
I see you don't keep up with the news. Pity how much time you spend in the cult bubble blind to reality.

Also I see you endorse slavery and cheer that the bible preaches to do this abominable act.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Get rid of that ridicules avatar!
You look like a 3 year old I can't take you seriously. LOL
We got the joke ok?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#7725
Dec 5, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
It's always your choice to go to hell.
Oh no! Not the scary chicken on the stick! "Arise, Chicken, arise!"
derek4 wrote:
Total Christians in this forum converted to atheism: ZERO
Maybe you don't know what the atheist forum is for. It's where we teach one another about your church, your religion, your bible, and the typical Christian. The Internet now serves as atheist school for all practical purposes, and the information content of our posts comprises the lecture section.

There's also a lab section. That's where you come in, Dim. Your function is to be studied. You're one of the Jesus fish in a large virtual aquarium, where learning skeptics can take time observing, poke at the glass a little, and observe what results. This is where we learn first hand what the typical Christian's values are - well, the typical Internet Christian. I'd still like to know if you people are a representative cross section of the entire sea of Jesus fish, and if not, how you differ.

For example, I've never seen so much lying in my life as I have observing Internet Christians. I don't remember that in my church years. But perhaps I just wasn't able to see it from the inside. Or perhaps it's worse now because of your easy access to Internet apologetics and your church's struggle to remain relevant.

Anyway, you're not here to be converted, and nobody has tried to convert you, either, Dim. You're here to be studied.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#7726
Dec 5, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
Unlike you, I use many sources to bring out my points.
You don't have a point. You're just a vector. You don't seem to understand the material you fetch.
derek4 wrote:
I don't sit on my rump and post silly comments. I put thought into what I do, unlike you.
Are you kidding us now, Dim? Name and link us to a nontrivial thought that you have contributed to this thread.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#7727
Dec 5, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
He [de Botton] has the same atheist religion you do, so if you are going to defend him, you get in there and worship with him like you're supposed to, you hypocrite.
LMAO
Hey, laughing boy: atheists don't worship. It's demeaning. I leave that to you and your Chicken On A Stick.

Go ahead - debase yourself, Dim. Get down on your knees. Divert your gaze, close your eyes, and put your unworthy head down. Put your hands together in a begging posture, and begin mumbling to the ceiling fan in a whiny, victim voice. Let your lower lip tremble, your voice break, and your tears flow.

Grovel like an insect and beg the ceiling fan to protect you from invisible devils. Tell the fan how worthless you are, how meaningless you are in comparison, and how lucky you feel to not be stepped on and extinguished like the unworthy cockroach that your bible tells you that you are. Beg he who you think made you human for mercy for the crime of being human.

In the meantime, the skeptic walks upright like the bipedal ape he was born to be. You call it pride. I call it dignity.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#7728
Dec 6, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
[Let's take a look at some of our states' constitutions today:]
Constitution of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts
From:
Chapter VI.
OATHS AND SUBSCRIPTIONS:
“Article I.[Any person chosen governor, lieutenant governor, councillor, senator or representative, and accepting the trust, shall before he proceed to execute the duties of his place or office, make and subscribe the following declaration, viz.--
"I, A. B., do declare, that I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth; and that I am seised and possessed, in my own right, of the property required by the constitution as one qualification for the office or place to which I am elected."
http://www.malegislature.gov/Laws/Constitutio...
[“I believe the Christian religion, and have a firm persuasion of its truth.”]
That isn't news Dim. Here are several more:

Arkansas, Article 19, Section 1:
No person who denies the being of a God shall hold any office in the civil departments of this State, nor be competent to testify as a witness in any Court.

Maryland, Article 37:
That no religious test ought ever to be required as a qualification for any office of profit or trust in this State, other than a declaration of belief in the existence of God; nor shall the Legislature prescribe any other oath of office than the oath prescribed by this Constitution.

Mississippi, Article 14, Section 265:
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office in this state.

North Carolina, Article 6, Section 8
The following persons shall be disqualified for office: Any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.

South Carolina, Article 17, Section 4:
No person who denies the existence of a Supreme Being shall hold any office under this Constitution.

Tennessee, Article 9, Section 2:
No person who denies the being of God, or a future state of rewards and punishments, shall hold any office in the civil department of this state.

Texas, Article 1, Section 4:
No religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office, or public trust, in this State; nor shall any one be excluded from holding office on account of his religious sentiments, provided he acknowledge the existence of a Supreme Being.

We're going to fix that for you, Dim, although it will take some fifty years or so to do so. We need about 25 more years to assume majority status in the US, and another ten to twenty to gradually replace theists with skeptics in the federal and state governments to assume majorities there as well.

This will be followed by another decade or two the rewrite those laws and plenty more. Watch for your god to disappear from the pledge and the currency, and for your churches to start paying taxes. The Italians are way ahead of the US on that one:

"Italian Catholic Church under pressure to start paying property tax - The Roman Catholic Church in Italy is under growing pressure to start paying taxes on its massive property portfolio, in a move that could raise up to 800 million euros (£680 million) a year and help bail the country out of its economic crisis."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/eur...

That estimate seems pretty low to me:

"America Spends $71 Billion Annually Subsidizing Tax-Exempt Religion" http://thenewcivilrightsmovement.com/america-...

Tick-tock, tick-tock.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#7729
Dec 6, 2012
 
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
God gave man will, but it isn't "free." There are consequences for our actions.
That's not what's meant by "free will" in the context of Christianity.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
It believe that it is not that God is not able to be in the presence of a sinful man as it is that a sinful man would not be able to abide with God.
Christians typically shift the blame for failures and shortcomings in the world to man and devils. If possibilities for man are limited in any sense, you need to blame the omnipotent and omniscient one that chose to make him that way, not man himself.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
God created this word as a place for us, His children, to learn, grow, have experiences, and strive to become more like him.
Why would that be necessary for an omnipotent god?
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
I do not subscribe to the notion that this life is an audition process for an angelical choir.
Then you are in a small minority of Christians.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
By doing our best to become more like him and learn about him we are worshiping him. The best compliment you can give some one is to strive to emulate them. We worship God by trying to seek out his will and trying to do as he would have us do.
How is that worship? I have tried to emulate a variety of role models in my lifetime, but worship none of them.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#7730
Dec 6, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
your god changes his mind, which contradicts the claim that he is perfect
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
Perfect is complete, I agree. BUT a perfect teacher who understands the students has a perfect/ complete teaching repertoire to meet the needs and teach to the understanding of the student. This is how God teaches his Children. I hope that answered that inquiry.
There was no inquiry - just a comment. The god of the bible is not perfect. It changes its mind. Perfect cannot change without becoming imperfect. If a god changes its mind, for example, at best, it either just became perfect, or just ceased being perfect.

It's pretty easy to discern that Christian doctrine is anthropogenic, not divinely authored. It's ancient authors weren't up to creating a seamless, consistent myth. Many mistakes were made, such as calling a god perfect, then cataloging its imperfections and contradictions.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#7731
Dec 6, 2012
 

Judged:

1

Sam is a Mormon. He thinks Yahweh is giving him his own planet.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That's not what's meant by "free will" in the context of Christianity.
<quoted text>
Christians typically shift the blame for failures and shortcomings in the world to man and devils. If possibilities for man are limited in any sense, you need to blame the omnipotent and omniscient one that chose to make him that way, not man himself.
<quoted text>
Why would that be necessary for an omnipotent god?
<quoted text>
Then you are in a small minority of Christians.
<quoted text>
How is that worship? I have tried to emulate a variety of role models in my lifetime, but worship none of them.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#7732
Dec 6, 2012
 
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
God isn't "everywhere" in a physical sense. His influence can be felt everywhere, but HE himself is not everywhere.
One fascinating revelation of the Internet experience is seeing how you Christians each seem to have your own private version of your religion.

With all due respect, it is of little interest to secularists exactly what doctrine each individual Christian ascribes to. We are mostly concerned with the public face that the collective presents. Mormons are only a small part of that, and any one Mormon alone is an even smaller part.

You seem like a cut above most of the rest, for which I commend you. But you must realize that that doesn't mitigate the problem at all.

When I discuss the public face of Christian doctrine, I am referring to the antisemitism, homophobia, atheophobia, misogyny, misanthropy, pathological prudery, continual lying, and the hatred for science.

You might actually object to all of it, which would be to your credit, wouldn't mitigate the problem at all.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
The events the earth has gone through and are prophesied to go through are representative of the changes that need to take place in us. The flood was more than a just a way to "start over", it was symbolic of the baptism by immersion we all must have, just as the prophesied cleansing by fire is symbolic of receiving the holy ghost after baptism and how it purifies our hearts.
Like I said, you each seem to have your own religion.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
God is just
Not the god of the Christian bible.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

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#7733
Dec 6, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
LOL! That's as funny as when I was asked what percentage of the human population did I think Noah and his family was. I responded 100%. LOL
I don't get why you think that that is funny.

The question doesn't specify whether it refers to before or after the flood. And apparently, some Christians think that there were humans that didn't perish in the flood apart from the crew of the ark.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#7734
Dec 6, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
The path that you're on may seem enlighten but that's just distant flames.
Are you shaking the Scary Chicken On A Stick at us now, too?

"Oogah boogah. Abracadabra, please and thank you. Shlemiel, shlemazel, hasenpfeffer incorporated. Eenie meenie, chili beanie, the spirits are about to speak."

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

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#7735
Dec 6, 2012
 
Oh Jesus eats many brains look no further than your and Derek's posts for proof of that :)

Jesus and Zombies both rise from the grave.
They both still have wounds inflicted upon them when they were killed.
They both scare people when they first see them.
They both go walking into town with other zombies/ dead saints.
They both threaten people but at least zombies don't have you tortured forever for not worshipping the dark ancient Palestine God of war who approved of rape, murdering children and slavery.
Zombies by comparison aren't so evil.

I guess the zombies are the more moral of the two.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Zombie go around eating brains not ascending into heaven and is seated at the right hand of God. Oh and Zombies are make believe. Time to put down the Comice books.
Thinking

UK

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#7736
Dec 6, 2012
 
The bible says jesus endorses slavery.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Where did you get that idea?
Thinking

UK

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#7737
Dec 6, 2012
 
Yes.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Was Hitler a Christian?
Thinking

UK

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#7738
Dec 6, 2012
 
I have no wish to be your slave master.
You're morally f**ked.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing wrong with it! LOL
It would be a perfect career for the likes of you.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#7739
Dec 6, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Oh Jesus eats many brains look no further than your and Derek's posts for proof of that :)
Jesus and Zombies both rise from the grave.<quoted text>
It gets even more bizarre than that!

According to the gospel of Matthew, following the resurrection of Jesus, the deceased saints rose from their graves and wandered through the streets of Jerusalem.

Later gospel writers knew this was a fiction, so conveniently left it out. This event in itself is enough to convincingly disprove Christianity.

Unless zombies wandering around Jerusalem was an everyday occurance. In that case maybe historians didnt think it was worth a mention :) lmao
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#7740
Dec 6, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
One fascinating revelation of the Internet experience is seeing how you Christians each seem to have your own private version of your religion.
True. Especially it seems amongst American Protestants. Each one cherry picks their own beliefs. New sects spring up all the time.

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