Don't dictate beliefs

Don't dictate beliefs

There are 11178 comments on the The Star Press story from Sep 5, 2012, titled Don't dictate beliefs. In it, The Star Press reports that:

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Star Press.

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#7598 Dec 4, 2012
In what way is it a lie lardass? It's a historical fact we have more proof for Hercules than we have for Jesus Christ.
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is that 'neat'; notwithstanding the fact it is a lie?
KJV

United States

#7599 Dec 4, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Isn't it neat that we have more historical proof for Hercules than we have for Jesus?:)
You should change your name to give me a brain.

Wikipedia

"Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed"

You're far from a scholar and it shows.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#7600 Dec 4, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
You should change your name to give me a brain.
Wikipedia
"Virtually all modern scholars of antiquity agree that Jesus existed"
You're far from a scholar and it shows.
And from that same Wikipedia article -- "the issue of historicity versus non-historicity of Jesus has been long ignored due to theological interests." (Christians have been known to burn people at the stake for such heresy ... it's a lot like drawing pictures of Muhammad)

But I'll tell you what -- just explain to me how a star (any star) can point to a specific location on this planet (any specific location) and I'll take another look at your myth. No? Can't do that?

And that's just one of many, many holes in your mythology. You get past that one and we can try a few more.

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#7601 Dec 4, 2012
Jesus was a popular name at that time so certainly we had many Jesus' running around. Now when we look at the historical Jesus of the bible for many years historians said he existed solely based on how previous historians felt on the subject. While quaint this isn't scientific.

Now we see experts starting to dig and research if this so called Jesus of Nazareth existed, looking for historical proof and they are coming up with nothing. The best source we have is the forged passages in Josephus. Even many Christian scholars are admitting that the passage is forged, their only argument is how much is it forged? Slightly? Totally?

We do not find the Jesus passage in earlier copies of Jospehus leading one to conclude it is a complete forgery. Now for fun let's pretend the passage isn't forged and Josephus himself wrote it word for word. Again we are pretending for the sake of apologetic argument.

So we accept this passage about Jesus in Josephus. If we are going to do that we must also accept his 12 plus passages about Hercules. Ditto with Tacitus who mentions Hercules again and again along with several other ancient historians, scrolls, paintings, coins, pottery and just to show off statues, swords, jewled daggers, tapistries, temples and shrines. Whew!

Bottom line the ancient people at that time liked to take a local hero and deify them crafting these marvelous tales about them being the son of god and performing miracles. So to accept Jesus as a historical person we must also accept Hercules.
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if a Jesus character did exist, and I think its possible, he was an ordinary person and not God. In the light of reason his magic tricks are nothing special and the things he said unimpressive and his quotations not original.
KJV

United States

#7602 Dec 4, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>If IANS ever describes your posts as purulent, you know you're in trouble.
IANS is your own private little god isn't he? So you are not an Atheist you do worship your own god.

Rather funny how you admit in you post that you are less then an equal to IANS

So why should we waste our time with someone who can't let go of the apron strings of your deity? LOL

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

#7603 Dec 4, 2012
:)

For the win!
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
And from that same Wikipedia article -- "the issue of historicity versus non-historicity of Jesus has been long ignored due to theological interests." (Christians have been known to burn people at the stake for such heresy ... it's a lot like drawing pictures of Muhammad)
But I'll tell you what -- just explain to me how a star (any star) can point to a specific location on this planet (any specific location) and I'll take another look at your myth. No? Can't do that?
And that's just one of many, many holes in your mythology. You get past that one and we can try a few more.
KJV

United States

#7604 Dec 4, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>In what way is it a lie lardass? It's a historical fact we have more proof for Hercules than we have for Jesus Christ.
But it is a lie " givemeabrain"

"Bruce M. Metzger

“Today no competent scholar denies the historicity of Jesus.”

H. G. Wells, British writer, 1866-1946

“In the reign of Tiberius Caesar a great teacher arose out of Judea who was to liberate the intense realization of the righteousness and unchallengeable oneness of God, and of man’s moral obligation to God…This was Jesus of Nazareth…Is it any wonder that to this day the Galilean is too much for our small hearts.”

Napoleon Bonaparte, Emperor of the French

"You speak of Caesar, of Alexander, of their conquests and of the enthusiasm which they enkindled in the hearts of their soldiers; but can you conceive of a dead man making conquests, with an army faithful and entirely devoted to his memory? My armies have forgotten me even while living, as the Carthaginian army forgot Hannibal. Such is our power.”

“I know men and I tell you, Jesus Christ is no mere man. Between him and every other person in the world there is no possible term of comparison. Alexander, Caesar, Charlemagne, and I have founded empires. But on what did we rest the creations of our genius? Upon force. Jesus Christ founded his empire upon love; and at this hour, millions would die for him.”

“I search in vain history to find similar to Jesus Christ, or anything which can approach the gospel. Neither history nor humanity, nor ages, nor nature, offer me anything with which I am able to compare it or to explain it. Here everything is extraordinary.”

"H. G. Wells, British writer, 1866-1946

When asked which person left the most permanent impression on history, he replied that judging a person’s greatness by historical standards:

“By this test, Jesus stands first.”

“I am a historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.”

“Christ is the most unique person of history. No man can write a history of the human race without giving first and foremost place to the penniless teacher of Nazareth.”

Kenneth Scott Latourette, former President of American Historic Society

In A History of Christianity:

“It is evidence of His importance, of the effect that He has had upon history and presumably, of the baffling mystery of His being that no other life ever lived on this planet has evoked so huge a volume of literature among so many people and languages, and that, far from ebbing, the flood continues to mount.”

“As the centuries pass by, the evidence is accumulating that measured by its effect on history, Jesus is the most influential life ever lived on this planet. The influence appears to be mounting.”

“No other life lived on this planet has so widely and deeply affected mankind.”

George Bancroft, great American historian

“I find the name of Jesus Christ written on the top of every page of modern history.”"

http://www.why-jesus.com/history.htm
KJV

United States

#7605 Dec 4, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>And from that same Wikipedia article -- "the issue of historicity versus non-historicity of Jesus has been long ignored due to theological interests." (Christians have been known to burn people at the stake for such heresy ... it's a lot like drawing pictures of Muhammad)

But I'll tell you what -- just explain to me how a star (any star) can point to a specific location on this planet (any specific location) and I'll take another look at your myth. No? Can't do that?

And that's just one of many, many holes in your mythology. You get past that one and we can try a few more.
"But I'll tell you what -- just explain to me how a star (any star) can point to a specific location on this planet (any specific location) and I'll take another look at your myth. No? Can't do that? "

If you really want to know. I mean if you want the truth about that then rent the DVD "The Star of Bethlehem " it truly is a very good DVD.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#7606 Dec 4, 2012
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/sep/28/v...
This relates to a document that appears to have been created in the fourth century (CE). Jesus was a sort of composite character developed over time. He's a figure people have used to support dogma and superstition. There is no reason to suppose that 'Christ's teachings' came accurately or directly from a single individual called Jesus, let alone thanks to an Abrahamic god who sent him to us via a 'virgin birth'.

Religion is a lot of divisive, superstitious nonsense.
KJV

United States

#7607 Dec 4, 2012
anti-Christ (who represents the Devil) will emerge and rule the earth, and there will be much tribulation. Jesus, clothed with a vesture dipped in blood, will descend with armies from heaven upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his (Jesus) mouth will be a sharp sword, and with it he will smite the nations, and he shall rule them with a rod of iron.(Revelation 19:13-15)
KJV

United States

#7608 Dec 4, 2012
Part 2

" Christians are not the only group expecting the second coming of Jesus; Muslims are also on the lookout for his return. While the Quran states that Jesus survived the crucifixion, it says nothing about his second coming – though Jesus’ death is implied at some later stage in his life.(Q5:117) Muslims supposedly derive the “second coming of Jesus” theory from sayings attributed to the prophet Muhammad, documented more than 200 years after his death. It is interesting that Muhammad, who claimed to be the last of God’s prophets, would have mentioned Jesus’ return. As Islam spread in the Middle East, the Arabs generally belonged to two groups: Christians and idolaters. No doubt the stories about the second coming of Jesus were circulating. Some of the early Muslims, no less adept at embellishment than their Christian counterparts, took the same stories and gave them an “Islamic twist.” Christians are expecting Jesus to return, destroy an anti-Christ, and save a limited number of Christians who accept him as their savior. The majority of Muslims in the world today believe that Jesus will return and kill an anti-Christ, and save the Muslims who will be going through turbulent times under the yoke of this anti-Christ. At the same time, Jesus will supposedly clear up all of the confusion over his status, i.e., announce to the world that he (Jesus) is only human. Besides Jesus, Muslims are also expecting another leader known as “the Mahdi,” who will appear just before Jesus. This “Mahdi” is the equivalent of Elijah in the Bible, who is supposed to appear prior to Jesus. There is ongoing speculation regarding the identity of the anti-Christ, and the search for this elusive devil continues.

The concept of Armageddon predates Christianity and Islam. Zarathustra, founder of Zoroastrianism, was a Persian, who it is believed was the first prophet to preach monotheism. Estimates of Zarathustra's birth range from 660 BCE to 6,000 BCE. Zarathustra preached that there was a supreme God (Ahura Mazda), and an evil spirit (Ahriman). There was also a serpent king (Zohak) under the influence of Ahriman. The apocalyptic process is remarkably similar in Zoroastrianism, a battle foreshadows the end of the world, then there is a waiting period followed by a second battle that vanquishes all evil, followed by a peaceful era. Zarathustra’s version of Armageddon is derived from an even older version in Indo-European myth.(Winn 209-211)"

KJV

United States

#7609 Dec 4, 2012
Part 3

"

Current Religious and Political Implications

Many evangelical preachers today allude to our tumultuous times, and advocate that the current global situation is ripe for the second coming of Jesus. TV evangelists reach an estimated 60 million regular viewers (a conservative figure) in the United States, who (according to a Nielsen survey) believe that nuclear war is inevitable because the Bible predicts that planet earth will be destroyed by fire.(Halsell 11) These Christian evangelists are staunch supporters of Israel. They believe that an alliance with Israel is imperative so that they can do God’s work, i.e., help to create a chain of events that is necessary in that region (based on their interpretation of the scripture) for the second coming of Jesus. These Jews and Christians are strange bedfellows indeed, given that according to Christian doctrine, Jews (along with every other non-Christian in the world) are doomed to damnation unless they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Fundamentalist Christians constitute a sizeable voting block in the United States, and no sane politician can ignore them. These fundamentalists exercise considerable sway over the U.S Congress and Executive Branch.(Halsell 163-167) They also influence U.S foreign policy in the Middle East, pressuring the U.S government to perform a delicate balancing act. Since evangelists and their followers believe that peace in the Middle East is against God’s will and counter productive to the emergence of an anti-Christ and the return of Jesus, politicians have to be careful not to appear too much in favor of peace while at the same time try to prevent a global conflagration from igniting in that volatile region of the world. There was a recent media report that one such evangelist – Jack Van Impe – claimed that the Office of Public Liaison for the White House, and National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice, contacted him for advice regarding the Middle East.


Conclusion

Throughout history, millions of people have been annihilated due to religious polemic. God’s prophets all preached a consistent message, essentially for us to do good works given that we will all be held individually accountable on the Day of Judgment, based on the universal adage:“as you sow, so shall you reap.” People continuously engage in rabid arguments and violent conflict over the most esoteric of religious differences, sometimes even within the same religion, even though the commonalities among the monotheistic faiths far outweigh the theological disparities. Jews, Christians, and Muslims – or more precisely various sects within the three religions – believe that they have exclusive rights to heaven.

The majority of Jews, Christians, and Muslims are awaiting a savior: the Jews their Messiah, and Christians and Muslims the return of Jesus. It is incomprehensible that the gentle and peaceful Jesus, who reportedly said:“Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God”(Matthew 5:9), and who advised people who are smitten on one cheek to turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39 and Luke 6:29), would descend from heaven to save a select group and eradicate millions of innocent people. The “divinity / second coming of Jesus” theory may arguably qualify as the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind, and there is a great danger that the “Rapture” or “Armageddon” could manifest itself as a “self-fulfilling prophecy.” Although a minority, hardliners from the three Abrahamic faiths – Jews, Christians, and Muslims – are trying to create an atmosphere of spiraling violence that could possibly lead to massive destruction and conflagration on our planet. If they get their way, there will be no savior on the horizon with a sword protruding from his mouth (somewhat paradoxical), but hundreds of millions of very disappointed – and possibly dead – people."

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7610 Dec 4, 2012
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am attempting to dispute *your* assertions.
<quoted text>
The link is available above.
<quoted text>
I did not copy from any other website. My contribution is from my own brain and in my own style. If you do not want to comment on the *content* of my post, you are agreeing that your previous argument is faulty.
You're *attempting* to dispute something - that part is obvious.

Sorry it's not working out for you, and you're unhappy.

Wish I could help you.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7611 Dec 4, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
If IANS ever describes your posts as purulent, you know you're in trouble.
Am I?[LMAO]

I wouldn't know, I don't read his posts, and couldn't care less.

Have you been reading up on Noah and his family lately, or do you just stick with your comic books?

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7612 Dec 4, 2012
EdSed wrote:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worl d/2012/sep/28/vatican-denounce s-jesus-married-papyrus
This relates to a document that appears to have been created in the fourth century (CE). Jesus was a sort of composite character developed over time. He's a figure people have used to support dogma and superstition. There is no reason to suppose that 'Christ's teachings' came accurately or directly from a single individual called Jesus, let alone thanks to an Abrahamic god who sent him to us via a 'virgin birth'.
Religion is a lot of divisive, superstitious nonsense.
Einstein on God and Science

He was asked: You accept the historical Jesus?

He replied:

Unquestionably! No one can read the Gospels without feeling the actual presence of Jesus. His personality pulsates in every word. No myth is filled with such life.”
...Einstein, as cited in Viereck 1929; see also Einstein, as cited in the German magazine Geisteskampf der Gegenwart, Guetersloh, 1930, S. 235).

http://2012daily.com/community/blogs/user/201...

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7613 Dec 4, 2012
“Astronomers now find they have painted themselves into a corner because they have proven, by their own methods, that the world began abruptly in an act of creation to which you can trace the seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in this cosmos and on the earth. And they have found that all this happened as a product of forces they cannot hope to discover…. That there are what I or anyone would call supernatural forces at work is now, I think, a scientifically proven fact.”– Astronomer, physicist and founder of NASA’s Goddard Institute of Space Studies Robert Jastrow. Please see Jastrow’s book God and the Astronomers for further reading.


“I believe that the more thoroughly science is studied, the further does it take us from anything comparable to atheism.”

“If you study science deep enough and long enough, it will force you to believe in God.”

- Lord William Kelvin, who was noted for his theoretical work on thermodynamics, the concept of absolute zero and the Kelvin temperature scale based upon it.


“God created everything by number, weight and measure.”

“In the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God’s existence.”

“I have a fundamental belief in the Bible as the Word of God, written by those who were inspired. I study the Bible daily.”
- Sir Isaac Newton, who is widely regarded to be the greatest scientist the world has ever produced.
http://www.godevidence.com/2010/08/quotes-abo...

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7614 Dec 4, 2012
“There can never be any real opposition between religion and science; for the one is the complement of the other.”
- Max Planck,(the Nobel Prize winning physicist considered to be the founder of quantum theory, and one of the most important physicists of the 20th century, indeed of all time).


“…Those laws are within the grasp of the human mind. God wanted us to recognize them by creating us after his own image so that we could share in his own thoughts… and if piety allow us to say so, our understanding is in this respect of the same kind as the divine, at least as far as we are able to grasp something of it in our mortal life.”
- Johannes Kepler, the German mathematician and astronomer who discovered the laws of planetary motion which later served as one of the foundations for Issac Newton’s theory of universal gravitation. Kepler is considered to be one of the founders of the field of astronomy.
http://www.godevidence.com/2010/08/quotes-abo...

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7615 Dec 4, 2012
“There is for me powerful evidence that there is something going on behind it all... It seems as though somebody has fine tuned nature’s numbers to make the Universe... The impression of design is overwhelming.”
Physicist Paul Davies

“I believe that a full understanding of this remarkable human capacity for scientific discovery ultimately requires the insight that our power in this respect is the gift of the universe’s Creator who, in that ancient and powerful phrase, has made humanity in the image of God (Genesis I: 26-27). Through the exercise of this gift, those working in fundamental physics are able to discern a world of deep and beautiful order–a universe shot thorough with signs of mind. I believe that it is indeed the Mind of that world’s Creator that is perceived in this way. Science is possible because the universe is a divine creation.”
- Former Cambridge University professor of mathematical physics John Polkinghorne, as quoted in his book Quantum Physics and Theology: An Unexpected Kinship. Polkinghorne is a Fellow of the Royal Society (FRS) and Knight Commander of the Order of the British Empire (KBE). In part because of his insights about God from physics, Polkinghorne changed careers and joined the Anglican priesthood.

“It is relatively unusual that a physical scientist is truly an atheist. Why is this true? Some point to the anthropic constraints, the remarkable fine tuning of the universe. For example, Freeman Dyson, a Princeton faculty member, has said,‘Nature has been kinder to us that we had any right to expect.’”
- Quantum chemist Henry F. Schaefer III, five time nominee for the Nobel Prize, as quoted in his essay Stephen Hawking, the Big Bang, and God.
http://www.godevidence.com/2010/08/quotes-abo...

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7616 Dec 4, 2012
“A Creator must exist. The Big Bang ripples and subsequent scientific findings are clearly pointing to an ex nihilo creation consistent with the first few verses of the book of Genesis.”
- Quantum chemist Henry F. Schaefer III, five time nominee for the Nobel Prize


“Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind.”
- Albert Einstein

“When I began my career as a cosmologist some twenty years ago, I was a convinced atheist. I never in my wildest dreams imagined that one day I would be writing a book purporting to show that the central claims of Judeo-Christian theology are in fact true, that these claims are straightforward deductions of the laws of physics as we now understand them. I have been forced into these conclusions by the inexorable logic of my own special branch of physics.”

“From the perspective of the latest physical theories, Christianity is not a mere religion, but an experimentally testable science.”
- Professor of mathematical physics Frank Tippler
http://www.godevidence.com/2010/08/quotes-abo...

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#7617 Dec 4, 2012
“It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious.... I find a need for God in the universe and in my own life.”

“Religion is founded on faith. It seems to me that when confronted with the marvels of life and the universe, one must ask why and not just how. The only possible answers are religious. For me that means Protestant Christianity, to which I was introduced as a child and which has withstood the tests of a lifetime.”

“But the context of religion is a great background for doing science. In the words of Psalm 19,‘The heavens declare the glory of God and the firmament showeth his handiwork’. Thus scientific research is a worshipful act, in that it reveals more of the wonders of God’s creation.”
- Arthur L. Schawlow, professor of physics at Stanford University and winner of the 1981 Nobel Prize in Physics
http://www.godevidence.com/2010/08/quotes-abo...

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