Don't dictate beliefs

Don't dictate beliefs

There are 11177 comments on the The Star Press story from Sep 5, 2012, titled Don't dictate beliefs. In it, The Star Press reports that:

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Star Press.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7002 Nov 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
The Bible specifically states that MAN brought sin and death in to the world. Not God but man. You know this!
I know you claim it, but it's an unacceptable argument. How could man create anything in a world created by an omniscient, omnipotent god? If you can foresee what your creation will do, and have the power to make that be whatever you want it to be, then what it does is your creation as well.

If man can create entire categories of moral behavior, then I am free to speculate that it was your god that created the evil and sin in man and the universe, and that it was man created the good, introduced it into the world, and that your god stole the credit from man. It's just as possible as the other way around.
KJV

United States

#7003 Nov 27, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>I don't see why not. Besides, something counterintuitive happened.

KJV wrote, "Every law of physics would be broken."

The laws we know didn't exist yet. They were formed as a result of the expansion in a process called symmetry breaking.

KJV wrote, "It just could not have happened that way."

As I told you, it is invalid to look at one option of many, all of which are counterintuitive, call it impossible because it's counterintuitive, and think that that indicates that an even less likely and more counterintuitive solution obtains as a result.

If you want to discuss the impossible, tell me what is less likely to exist than an undesigned, infinitely complex god?
God creating the universe doesn't break a single law of physics.

And the old stand by that the laws of physics didn't apply until science wanted them to.

You can go here and read a good debate about this.

http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/59...

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#7004 Nov 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
God creating the universe doesn't break a single law of physics.
how about the law of actually having some kind of proof that isn't religious lies?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#7005 Nov 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
God creating the universe doesn't break a single law of physics.
And the old stand by that the laws of physics didn't apply until science wanted them to.
You can go here and read a good debate about this.
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/59...
No matter how you work it, the laws of physics in this universe cannot exist until the universe they exist in exists. Attempting to discredit scientists this way is just dishonest word play.
KJV

United States

#7006 Nov 27, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Who would that be, and why would it matter if it were?

In any even, the universe is generally assumed to have expanded extremely quickly for a fraction of a second. From Wiki: "In physical cosmology, cosmic inflation ... is the theorized extremely rapid exponential expansion of the early universe by a factor of at least 10E78 in volume, driven by a negative-pressure vacuum energy density."

KJV wrote, "Also if this speck was a spinning Singularity if it broke apart then everything should be spinning the same way. The Conservation of Angular Momentum tells us that in a frictionless environment, if pieces fly off a spinning object they tend to spin in the same direction
"

Nothing broke apart.

Also, why do you think that angular momentum is not conserved? So you think that you could discern if the universe was turning? Can you feel the earth turning?
There are planets right in our own solar system that are spinning the wrong way.
The theory of angular momentum claims this is impossible if everything started from a spinning singularity in a frictionless environment.

The theory of gravity does not allow for the expanding singularity.

And what sounds crazier all the matter in the entire universe (all stars and all planets all moons all asteroids all dust)
Were once all in a physical spot taking up less room then this period . Then put aside all laws of physics to expand and create everything?

Or All was created by an intelligent designer?

I believe the later. You believe the first example.
KJV

United States

#7007 Nov 27, 2012
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>Yes, I am. I said so.

But I am also an atheist. I don't believe or accept any god claims yet, and that's an atheist. An agnostic atheist.

This really isn't a debate or a request that you agree. It's a report. I'm telling you how I use the words "atheist" and "agnostic" - what I mean when I say those words - how increasing numbers of others are using and understanding those words, and how language and dictionaries evolve. Languages are dynamic, and dictionaries are descriptive - not prescriptive. They describe how language is actually being used, not prescribe how it must be used.

It is pointless for you to insist on a particular schema of nomenclature. It is pointless for you to insist that I must choose between "atheist" and "agnostic" when it is clear that it makes sense to call people like me both.

What doesn't make sense is arbitrarily insisting that I can't be both - that I must pick only one. One describes what I believe, and one what I claim to know. They are independent variables, like race and gender, not mutually exclusive options on a spectrum of possible values for a parameter.
I can tell you that if you answered all those questions in a survey you would be listed under agnostic and not atheist.
So calling yourself an atheist may suit your needs it just doesn't conform to the use of the words proper use.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7008 Nov 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
God did not create the Devil he created an angel.
Even though he sees all and can do anything, his failures are never his fault.

He made angels, dome good, and some revolted. We are told that he made the good ones good, but the bad ones were bad by themselves.

He made man, and each one ever born has sinned just as he knew they would before he made the first one, but that's out fault.

He commits genocide on entire populations including infants and we hear that his love is perfect, but they were wicked and needed extermination.

You're an enabler for your god.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7009 Nov 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
You can go here and read a good debate about this.
http://cosmoquest.org/forum/showthread.php/59...
That was interesting. Thanks.

We're really not able to say much about the singularity or the first 10E-43 or so seconds after it.
KJV

United States

#7010 Nov 27, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>Oh, I know what you mean - that's sad, isn't it – just not much demand on TV for atheists.

Also, atheists aren't very organized and don't support their atheist churches financially to fund their ministries.
Well tv deals in numbers and seeing as to that fact that atheist is now down to 2.04% of the world population. Not really a big draw.
KJV

United States

#7011 Nov 27, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>Do you believe in God?
"Adam wrote:
Questions for Derek and KJV. Do you think the OT law came from God. Also do you think this law is immoral?"

I have stated my believes on the Bible many times.

How do you believe life started?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7012 Nov 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
There are planets right in our own solar system that are spinning the wrong way. The theory of angular momentum claims this is impossible if everything started from a spinning singularity in a frictionless environment.
With all due respect, your understanding of science is inadequate to be speaking in terms of what must be and what is impossible.

A good whack of a planet's north pole by a glancing planetesimal or larger object could put a planet on its head and cause it to be spinning opposite the remainder of planets in the same solar system, and there would be no violation of angular momentum.
KJV wrote:
The theory of gravity does not allow for the expanding singularity.
I don't see why not. For starters, the laws of gravity didn't apply until gravity separated from the rest of the forces, then still combined as one force themselves. By then, the universe was inflating. Gravity, once it appeared, might slow the expansion, although we are learning about thing like dark energy, negative gravity, and the effects of possible structures outside of the universe - structures such as parallel universes, branes, and multiverses - on the gravity in this universe. Oh yeah, it be true.

And remember, whatever is the correct answer, it is so weird as to sound impossible. You can't use that argument against just one hypothesis at a time, so you can't use it against any of them.
KJV

United States

#7013 Nov 27, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>Churches? No thanks, I'd rather have a lie in or read newspapers on a sunday morning.

If you have any spare money it would be much better spent on secular charities where the money goes to good causes, than lining the pockets of clergy.
Adam are you really going to lump all the churches in to one atheist defined criminal originates?

If you do then we could then lump all science in to the lying money grubbing thief's that have been caught falsifying scientific studies.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#7014 Nov 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
I can tell you that if you answered all those questions in a survey you would be listed under agnostic and not atheist. So calling yourself an atheist may suit your needs it just doesn't conform to the use of the words proper use.
OK. I don't mind. I just want to see theism take a back seat to secularism at all levels of public life, and restrict theism to the private lives of volunteers. Whatever the remainder call themselves is fine.
KJV

United States

#7015 Nov 27, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>okey dokey - long as yore happie.....lol
Ya great news flash Adam.

Woke up?

So now that your in this new faith Adam
Please explain how life stared.
KJV

United States

#7016 Nov 27, 2012
derek4 wrote:
Hey Adam, do you love your atheist sister Madalyn?

Gotta love this charming lady:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =bWeyiryKtCAXX

Feel her love......LMAO
Not much difference then what we see on these boards. LOL
KJV

United States

#7017 Nov 27, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>Even if you think evolution is false, and somehow an evil doctrine, this does not prove a supernatural agency. You should know that many theists accept evolution cause of the overwhelming evidence in support of it.
Adam just keep it real and honest. If this is done Christians believes have nothing to worry about because once science lies stop then intelligent design becomes the most obvious choice.

Adam,

How did life start?
KJV

United States

#7018 Nov 27, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>Good stuff. The "body and blood" teaching will have come from Mithraism and not Judasim imo.
Adam

How did the universe start?
And why?
KJV

United States

#7019 Nov 27, 2012
Adam wrote:
The ritual cannibalism in Christianity is a concept which is worth exploring further. If you explain the transformation of bread and wine into the flesh and blood of Jesus to a non-Christian, they will be repulsed by the idea. A sane and rational person will see this for what it is, a strange, superstitious and satanic ritual.

God eating preceded Christianity. But made an entrance in the gospel of John chapter 6. Protestants try and write this off as symbolic. However careful reading of the text shows that the Catholic position is the orthodox one. Jesus really did teach that zombies, er I mean Christians, need to literally eat his flesh and drink his blood, in the form of a wafer of bread and a sip of wine.

This bizarre teaching proved to be a barrier to belief of the Jews, according to John's gospel. And they walked out on him. However his faithful disciples believed in this even though no doubt they found it repulsive.

Such is faith I guess.

The fact that Protestants think this symbolic, is proof that no one takes the Bible literally. As even Bible only fundies reject the obvious meaning of John 6.

All goes to show how religion can brainwash people.
Adam
Do you believe that science finally have that age of everything pinned down pretty much this time or will there be billions of years thrown in again when they find out they need yet more time to explain something?
KJV

United States

#7020 Nov 27, 2012
Adam wrote:
This reminds me of the cosmic jewish zombie definition of Christianity.

I shall give my personal definition of Christianity .

.. "the belief in an invisible and silent entity called God. This entity incarnated himself as a person called Jesus who taught you will burn you in hell fire for eternity unless you eat his flesh and drink his blood." Crazy, crazy stuff.(shakes head)
Adam

Why didn't the laws of physics exist once the universe existed?
KJV

United States

#7021 Nov 27, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>What if the speck creates its own set of laws each time it generates a universe?
What if?

The point is the speck that started this universe had our current laws of physics
And these laws forbid the universe from starting that way.

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