Don't dictate beliefs

Don't dictate beliefs

There are 11176 comments on the The Star Press story from Sep 5, 2012, titled Don't dictate beliefs. In it, The Star Press reports that:

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Star Press.

KJV

United States

#6548 Nov 23, 2012
timn17 wrote:
<quoted text>Do you know how long believers have been claiming that the apocalypse was nigh?
No
KJV

United States

#6549 Nov 23, 2012
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Real slow aren't you?
Here we will try it again >>> That there is more than one, nullifies the entire concept of one all powerful god. There are clearly thousands of gods, none who has any more validity than the next one. All are the farcical tools of the spell caster, who is your only liaisons to the gods.
Do you believe in an empty box?
Do you believe that there could be such a thing as an empty Box?

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6550 Nov 23, 2012
Adam wrote:
Derek, I thought I'd share with you some thoughts on why I deconverted. It was partly caus when you look into it there is a lack of good evidence to justify christian beliefs. The life of jesus is recorded in the gospels. The four gospels and pauls letters all contradict each other. The gospels were written decades after the events they record by anonymous authors. What does this mean?
Well, when it says Jesus said "X", we cannot believe that this is case. It is not coming from a valid source. When in the gospel of Matthew it says the dead rose from their graves i.e. zombies walked the streets of jerusalem, without faith glasses, we know this claim is absurd.
At most you can claim jesus may of existed as a person, and perhaps argue for the existence of a god entity which does not interact with its creation, but christianity is not a reasonable proposition. It is basically a lie which no reasonable person could agree with.
Apparent biblical discrepancies can be and are reconciled. However, I am not here to debate alleged discrepancies. I leave that to theologians and I often refer to them (and my study Bible) whenever I have Bible questions. If you and I don't even agree on the existence of God, what would be the point to debating the fine points of the Bible?

Note that I do NOT agree with you there are any discrepancies in the Bible. However, just reading in this forum should show you there are many discrepancies in atheism. So if you're looking for a position where there are no discrepancies, you better deconvert from atheism, lol.

Just this other note: I do not fail to capitalize Richard Dawkins or Jesus and Paul since improper spelling of proper names and intentionally disrespectful grammar does not serve anyone well or make any points for you. It simply shows crudeness / ignorance.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6551 Nov 23, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Well Oral first off atheist would never use the word holy on their wars names.
But there have been hundreds of war started by atheist killing many more then all the holy wars combined.
I can think of many wars that's prime purpose was to kill of certain Theist groups. I seem to recall Christians being feed to the lions while the pagans and atheist looked on laughing. Oh and then there was this war that took place where each country that was seized had all their Jewish believers were killed off.
Amen to that one!!!

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6552 Nov 23, 2012
“Why is it when you talk to someone who doesn't believe in God they have a negative attitude about life? It seems the most anti-God people out there are also the most negative, glass half-empty type of people. And if you're a believer in God then you're noted as some kind of fruitcake because you choose to put your faith in something that makes life better for you.

So I guess what it comes down to is that Atheists have to have something to complain about so they choose to channel their frustration in life toward believers.”
http://www.city-data.com/forum/religion-spiri...

[“... most anti-God people out there are also the most negative, glass half-empty type of people.” Yes - and all atheists in this forum are that way – downers - they offer nothing positive or uplifting.]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6553 Nov 23, 2012
Negativity in Atheism

“Atheists like to discuss religious people. They like to portray them as bigots and intolerant, gun wielding tyrants. Of course, a staple of atheist discussions is how to avoid praying when friends get together and pray, such as before Thanksgiving dinner. They intended inference is that, is an atheist doesn’t pray, all hell will break lose and the Christians will behead the damn pagans for their failure to pray.

Interesting thought, but one without basis in reality. The vast majority of Christians, especially Protestants, value individualism and respect the rights of others to not believe or to believe differently from themselves.

The irony is in the intolerance and negativity of the modern atheists. The histrionic name-calling by Richard Dawkins and Christopher Hitchens and atheists in general is in stark contrast to the tolerance and respect for others demonstrated by Alister McGrath and Christians in general.

As atheists go about attacking religion with name calling and their “Imagine no Religion” placards, one drives by a Churches and cannot help but notice the lack of negativity demonstrated by the religious people who are so utterly demonized by atheists.

Instead of focusing on the perceived faults of non-believers, Christians tend to focus on the virtues of belief. Love, faith, hope, etc. When was the last time you saw a Christian church displaying a placard saying “Atheists are evil” or “No Buddhism” or “End Hinduism”?

If atheism has any virtue, then atheists would be better served to focus on those positive attributes, instead of dwelling forever on the perceived negative attributes of religious persons.”
http://www.individualsovereigntist.com/2007/1...

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6554 Nov 23, 2012
[This poor atheist is whining about the negative connotation associated with his belief.. I can certainly understand that!!! My heart goes out to him, lol.]

“Having been an atheist for the majority of my life, I just wanted to know some of your opinions on the stigma associated with atheism – and with various religions. There always seems to be a barrier built up between those who are firmly set in their religious beliefs, and those who aren’t. I know whenever I have opened up about my thoughts on the subject, I am often met with criticism.“Atheist” has such a negative connotation (I have even seen some members of HE placing it in a negative light), I almost hate to define myself as one.”
http://www.highexistence.com/topic/the-negati...

[“... the stigma associated with atheism”]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6555 Nov 23, 2012
The Atheist that Hates:

“Due to constant misunderstanding with my name I feel the need to change my intro. I am hateful, hateful of religion. I hate what religion does to people and that people use it as an excuse to not think. I have spent many years of my life as an Atheist and have learned to handle my emotions, but no other word quite describes how I feel towards religion short of hate. I am outspoken, open minded, and will share my opinion. If you're looking for someone who will always agree with you, that won't be me.”
http://hatefulatheist.tumblr.com/

[He's consumed with hate, lol. When you live your life that way, you hurt no one but yourself. You're sour, bitter, and angry - no one wants to be around you. Go for the hate........]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6556 Nov 23, 2012
Here's another atheist “hater”:

“I'm an Atheist But I Hate Atheists”
Let me explain, I am technically an atheist. I don't believe in God and I resent all religions. However, I hate the very essence of atheism. I hate how self-righteous atheists are, I hate how they see every religious person below them just because they don't believe in fairy tales, I hate how they spend their time on Reddit's atheism board thinking that they are "something". So I'm an atheist but I loathe atheists, especially the loudmouth kind.”
http://www.rationalskepticism.org/new-members...

[Wow – that one even hates his own kind, lol. Lots of HATE involved in being an atheist......who need that kind of life?]
KJV

United States

#6557 Nov 23, 2012
"atheism is a religion/belief system.

if i tell someone that i have a million dollars beneath my desk, they would have to know what a million dollars is to be able to confirm or deny its existence. if someone denies that i have a million dollars under my desk, then they are first confirming that they know what a million dollars is.

likewise, if an atheist denies that i have 'God' in a little box under my desk, the atheist is confirming the existence of God because he would have to know what God is to be able to deny its existence.

There is a more insidious type of atheist not mentioned in the OP, the Fundamentalist Atheist. Fundamentalist Atheists, have a need to go around websites and street corners proclaiming their 'beliefs' in God's non-existence, the same way christians proclaim their 'beliefs.' Both are religionists."
KJV

United States

#6558 Nov 23, 2012
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Real slow aren't you?
Here we will try it again >>> That there is more than one, nullifies the entire concept of one all powerful god. There are clearly thousands of gods, none who has any more validity than the next one. All are the farcical tools of the spell caster, who is your only liaisons to the gods.
You appear to be the slow one.

I posted the below to point out in comparison to the greatness of the universe your little cry that there is no
God seems just a bit weak.

"KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes with out an almighty God you can be god!
I wonder how far out in the Galaxy your cry that there is no God can be heard?
Halfway down a spiral arm?
Maybe not, how about to the closest Star? Maybe not, how about at least getting out of our solar system? Nan probably not. Neptune or Saturn?
Maybe just maybe!
Of course there is the rest of the universe that's a bit bigger but hey it all just appeared for nothingness right?"
KJV

United States

#6559 Nov 23, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>What gets me is that Derek and KJV never seem to talk about their beliefs. For supposed christians they never seem to talk about jesus, or stuff like that. I have no idea where they live, what denomination they in, what they believe, or anything, except their hatred of free thinking people. Strange.
What? Are you Daft?
Why in hell should I let you know where I live?

Adam were did this all come from?
KJV

United States

#6560 Nov 23, 2012
Nikki wrote:
<quoted text>My creationist senses are tingling.

[QUOTE]Contemporary Western Atheism unquestionably has six of the seven dimensions of religion set forth by Smart, and the remaining dimension, ritual, has also started to develop. Thus it’s fallacious to assert,“Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair colour”. Perhaps a better analogy would be calling a shaved head a “hairstyle”. Other than the denial of the divine, there is little difference between Atheism and other worldviews typically labelled as religions."

Oh please.

1. The experiential dimension

While we do experience a sense of awe when looking at the universe, this is in no way linked to us not believing in god.
But in my case I'll give you nature mysticism, I have experienced that.

2. The mythic dimension
Sorry, no myths here, just logic, common sense and falsifiable theories.

3. Ritual dimension

If atheist are expected to perform any rituals I haven't gotten the memo.

4. The doctrinl dimension

Doctrines are belief systems; they provide specific answers to boundary/identity questions.They give the institutionalized answers to the unexplainable (boundary questions).

Nope, don't have those either, just scientific theories we use to explain the world around us to the best of our abilities.

5. The ethical dimension

You're going to have to pick a side with this issue: either we are immoral, evil people since we have nog god and therefore no morality, or our morality comes from our atheism. You can't have it both ways.

We have an ethical system of course, a secular humanist one, but it is in no way derived from our abscence of belief in god, obviously.

6. The social dimension

There is a social dimension to atheism, like there is a social dimension to nearly anything humans do, like say, going to a golf club. But, and this is key, atheists belong to different groups and there certainly isn't any kind of social convention we're supposed to follow.

Out of curiosity, if Ninian Smart thought atheism was just another religion, and I'm assuming you'll agree with me that the man has a better understanding of his own theory than you do, why did he mention religious education should engage with modern atheistic thought and with other religious traditions.

If atheism is just another religious tradition, shouldn't Smart have included it into "other religious traditions"?

[QUOTE]The dichotomy that Atheists try to create between science and religion is false. The conflict is between interpretations of science coming from different religious world views.""

Oh yeah, definitely a creationist.

Listen buddy, the theory of evolution is not a religious interpretation of science and ID is not science full stop.

I can't be bothered to explain all the evidence for evolution,again , but here's a song that accurately describes the "debate":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =ajULH6dNihIXX
You know you might have something there! Evolution is more of a cult.

Thanks for pointing that out.
KJV

United States

#6561 Nov 23, 2012
derek4 wrote:
From Richard Dawkins, atheist:

THE ILLOGIC OF ATHEISM

“Most people arriving here will assume I am a Christian or at least a theist. I am not. I am also not an agnostic. To be an agnostic is to be a doubter. But to doubt you must have a certain amount of information.”

continued:

“I do not even call myself a skeptic, since the word has been polluted by modern use. A modern skeptic is like an agnostic, and he or she is likely to lean to a “no” answer every time. Are there gods? Probably not. Are there unicorns? Probably not. Is there a Bigfoot? Probably not. And so on. I resist this “skeptic” tag because leaning toward a “no” answer is a prejudice itself. It is unscientific. Beyond that, the so-called skeptic societies are stiff with atheists and agnostics and cynics and other faux-scientists, and I prefer to remain as far away from all that as possible.

Of course, with the existence of Bigfoot and unicorns and so on we do have a great deal of information. We have made searches. The Earth is a limited environment and we have populated it widely and heavily and long. Even so, the mountain gorilla was not discovered until 1902, and huge populations of lowland gorillas were only recently discovered in the Congo (this very decade). Which is to say that we may lean a bit to a “no” answer for existence of larger beings in smaller areas we have scoured quite thoroughly, but even then we may be wrong.

But in looking for proof of gods, our search is pathetically limited. By definition, a god is a being whose powers are far greater than ours, who we cannot comprehend, and whose form we cannot predict. This would make our failure to locate a god quite understandable. A very large or small god would be above or below our notice, and a distant god would also evade our sensors. Not to mention we only have five senses. If we are manipulated by gods, as the hypothesis goes, then it would be quite easy for them to deny us the eyes to see them. Only a god of near-human size in the near environs would be possible to detect.

Again, this does not mean I believe in gods, any more than I believe in aliens or unicorns. I only point out that, as a matter of logic and science, a hypothesis that has not been proved is not the same as a hypothesis that has been disproved. I agree with the atheists and agnostics that the existence of gods has not been proved, but I do not agree that the existence of gods has been disproved. It would require a much more thorough search of the universe than has so far been completed to even begin to lean. As it is, our data is near-zero.

[Also included in Mr. Dawkins text, further down, is this statement:“Atheists always take negative proof against a religion as positive proof for themselves, but this is both lazy and false.”---(thank you, Mr. Dawkins.)

And this:“Atheists always attack theists for being inconsistent, but atheists are wildly inconsistent themselves.”

And this statement, very near the end:“they (atheists) should recognize that atheism is a belief just as firmly planted in irrationality, in ego and desire, as theism.”]

[This final comment: Mr. Dawkins affirms he is an atheist rather than an agnostic, so - by his own definition of an atheist - he has taken on a firm belief there is no God - but there is no proof, so his belief is a position of FAITH........a faith that is, in his own words,“firmly planted in irrationality.”]
I love this! From Mr. Dawkins!

"For this reason, I find atheists to be just as sanctimonious, illogical, and tiresome as the deists and theists, if not more so."
KJV

United States

#6562 Nov 23, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>I'm an agnostic, not an atheist. My belief at the present time is that we do not have enough evidence or knowledge to form an opinion on the existence of gods. It may be impossible to form an opinion on the exstence of an invisible and silent entity.
Well at least you know the difference between atheist and agnostic.
Unfortunately there will never be enough evidence to prove Gods existence. God requires his followers to make a leap of faith.

"invisible and silent entity"

Invisible? No just not revealing himself in a physical manifestation.

Silent? No he gave us his word. It's called the bible.
KJV

United States

#6563 Nov 23, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>Ah, so you don't deny that the majority of killers, rapists, child molesters, and other such vile people are christian. Good. That also means you cannot deny that the vast majority of killings in history were done in the name of your religion, by people of your religion.
Looks like KK has taken another hit off her torpedo! LOL

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#6564 Nov 23, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Well at least you know the difference between atheist and agnostic.
Unfortunately there will never be enough evidence to prove Gods existence. God requires his followers to make a leap of faith.
"invisible and silent entity"
Invisible? No just not revealing himself in a physical manifestation.
Silent? No he gave us his word. It's called the bible.
Lemmings, that's who takes leaps of faith, jumps without looking. Do you really like to be lemmings? Or mindless sheep?

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#6565 Nov 23, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Looks like KK has taken another hit off her torpedo! LOL
Spin all you want, you pull the Scotsman fallacy only when it suits you, that's all I need to point out.
KJV

United States

#6566 Nov 23, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>Who said anything about proving/disproving a god?

The issue is that your Bible got it wrong. That's all, it's no big deal for me because I know it was written by men.

You however, have a much bigger problem if you believe the Bible is the error-free word of your god.
"The issue is that your Bible got it wrong. That's all, it's no big deal for me because I know it was written by men."

Yes it was written by men! Well there may have been some women involved also. Regardless they were inspired by God to write the Bible.

The bible did not get the number for Pi wrong. You seem to think that you can set the rules as to how many decimal places must be listed. Pi is infinite so your quote of what Pi is was wrong also because I claim you need to go 300 decimal places. The bible used 3 with no decimal places. It not wrong!
Pi is 3 if you are rounding off.

.1 is easily rounded to 0
.141 is also easily round off to 0
.14159265359 is also easily rounded off to 0.
KJV

United States

#6567 Nov 23, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>Right you are, Dim.
Yes I know I'm right.

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