Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 Full story: The Star Press 11,175

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Full Story

Since: Nov 11

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#6398 Nov 21, 2012
“The Arrogance of Atheism”

by Ian Welsh

“Lately I’ve been amusing myself by spending time with the social site reddit. One of the prominent sub-reddits, is atheism, and it’s managed to remind me why I find radical atheists almost as offensive as fundamentalists.(Almost, since they don’t tell other people how to live, they just sneer at other people for their beliefs). So let me respond to fire with fire, atheism is, ultimately, intellectually disreputable.

You cannot know with certainty that there is no god, in the sense of a creator of the universe, for example. It is impossible. You can assert that it is unnecessary, but that is not the same thing as impossible. Certainly you can say “there’s no reason to believe God created the universe in 7 days, 4,000 odd years ago”, but who cares? If Biblical literacy is your target, it’s just about shooting fish in a barrel, isn’t it?

The fact is that we don’t know. Arguably, we can’t know. We can say “God as described literally in the bible cannot exist”, but we cannot say “God does not exist”.

Which is why, at the end of the day, I stick with agnosticism. I don’t know if there’s a god, or an afterlife, or a soul.(I have opinions, but I am aware they are opinions, not facts). As such I know that I don’t know, and I don’t presume to tell people that I do know. I don’t dismiss out of hand, say, children born speaking languages they have no exposure to, or near-death experiences, or mystical experiences. At the same time, I know there may be a simple materialistic explanation for them.

Likewise I remember always that there’s no reason for anything to exist, that the biggest absurdity of existence is existence. Humbled by this fact, I feel no need to spout off and say “I KNOW”.

I don’t know.

And neither do you.”

[That was interesting. Not that I agree with all of it, but at least it was honest and straightforward – I have to appreciate the author's well said points.]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6399 Nov 21, 2012
Dogmatic Atheism and Scientific Ignorance

[Too much material to post – but below is from the conclusion:]

“Every argument presented by dogmatic atheists involving science to disprove a Creator is fallacious; there is no scientific evidence proving or even demonstrating a Creator does not exist, and there is no scientific research into the “God” issue. The shameful misuse of science by dogmatic atheists is due to their failing to make distinctions between science fiction and science (nonfiction). Dogmatic atheism, for all its pretensions to scientific literacy, is in effect composed of people scientifically illiterate, illogical, and addicted to argumentum ad verecundiam (arguments from modesty). These people are not skeptics or freethinkers but modern cynics -- the great naysayers. Deism is the only religion which is science friendly. The naturalistic approach to science should be encouraged because eventually by the process of elimination, it can indirectly provide evidence for a Creator and with time maybe find not only evidence of a Creator, but the Creator itself.”
http://www.deism.com/dogmaticatheism.htm

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6400 Nov 21, 2012
THE IGNORANCE OF ATHEISTS:

“One can only smile at the ignorance of British atheists who have taken to plastering London buses with the false and misleading advertisement:“There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”

Richard Dawkins, the scientist, Darwinist and notorious atheist who helped pay for the advertisements, maintains that the universe somehow evolved out of nothing by natural selection or some other similar process. How probable is that? Most people in Britain, as in the United States and Canada, would agree that it is far more probable to suppose that all things visible and invisible in the universe were created by Almighty God.

Of course, conceptions of God differ. While deists think of god as a kind of super watchmaker who got the universe underway and then took a leave of absence, Christians believe in a loving and righteous God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ and judge of all people.

The atheist advertisement is evidently targeted specifically at this Christian conception of God. In effect, the advertisement maintains that there is no such God, so now stop worrying and enjoy your life. Is this argument persuasive? Can anyone who is weighed down with guilt over abortion, adultery or some other sin now stop worrying and enjoy life because intellectuals like Dawkins have assured us that there is probably no God? Not likely. Apart from a few psychopaths, even the most hardened atheists who rob, steal, lie or kill the innocent are bound to be wracked with guilt.”
http://www.theinterim.com/columnist/the-ignor...

[“There’s probably no God. Now stop worrying and enjoy your life.”- If you're living your life in the right way, you shouldn't be worried, lol. On the other hand, if you want to be immoral, indecent, adulterous, and filled with hate, believing in God might bring you worry.]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6401 Nov 21, 2012
“Thanksgiving. A day of giving thanks.”

“But why do we say thank you?

Because something nice has been done for us. Because someone has given us something. Because we are responding to a kindness or blessing that has been bestowed upon us.

In so doing, we are implying that there is someone to respond to.

In the tradition of the first Thanksgiving, the Pilgrims, with help from the Indians (ahem, Native Americans) were able to give thanks to God for his many blessings. For helping them survive. For providing food. For bringing them to the New World where they could practice their faith without persecution.

So today, why do we celebrate Thanksgiving? Some will say it’s just another holiday involving family, food, and football.

But the implication is there– we are thankful.

I can’t imagine what it must be like to sit down around a Thanksgiving meal and eat without thanking the Lord. How awkward. How strange. How sad.

So, for those who don’t believe in God–why are they celebrating Thanksgiving? Who are they thanking? In the spirit of being thankful, what are they thankful for? If God didn’t bless them, then are they eating turkey and green bean casserole in honor of their bosses? Their friends? The bank? The economy? The government? Their own accomplishments?[Darwin, or the science god?]

What exactly are they thankful for? Stuff, surely. But what about the “stuff” that can’t be given by man? What about the breath in our lungs, the ability to wake each day, the family that surrounds us– our very existence?

It just doesn’t make much sense to me not to recognize the higher power in that.

We celebrate Thanksgiving because we are thankful for the many blessings given to us by the only one with the ability to bestow them. Whether you refer to him as God or just Divine Providence, the fact that you celebrate Thanksgiving at all implies that there is one to whom we owe a debt of gratitude.

If they are true to their belief, all atheists should be alone on Thursday, eating cold spaghetti.”
http://jenniferkhale.com/2012/11/21/no-turkey...

[HAPPY THANKSGIVING, atheists – enjoy your cold spaghetti, lol.]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#6402 Nov 21, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't help but notice your failure to cite the scripture that describes the earth as a sphere. Perhaps that's because there isn't one and you're lying for the baby Jesus again.
Given the Bible's ratio for Pi, this is hardly surprising. Your god has some pretty funny ideas about what a sphere is.
LOL, I failed at nothing. The scripture was in the link I provided which you didn't want to plough through, so you were dishonest and lazy.

There is no baby Jesus.

He grew up, was crucified, and resurrected, and when your short life has ended, he will see that you get the justice you deserve, even as the worms are burrowing in and out of your godless eye sockets. Enjoy your blasphemy while you can, it's all you've got.

And, as you know, your family is planning a big party on the day they finally get rid of you.
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

#6403 Nov 21, 2012
derek4 wrote:
LOL, I failed at nothing. The scripture was in the link I provided which you didn't want to plough through, so you were dishonest and lazy.
There is no baby Jesus.
He grew up, was crucified, and resurrected, and when your short life has ended, he will see that you get the justice you deserve, even as the worms are burrowing in and out of your godless eye sockets. Enjoy your blasphemy while you can, it's all you've got.
And, as you know, your family is planning a big party on the day they finally get rid of you.
In the words of Billy Madison:

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#6404 Nov 21, 2012
Once you are an LDS I read you are always one even if you leave the cult they don't remove your name from their roster.

Mormons are such idiots! Jesus came to America and there were horses all over the place! Whoops!

Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha haha!
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
You are assuming too much. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does not have debt. All of its projects are fully funded before they are started. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is not a dwindling church either.
For church financial information click here
http://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/church-...
For church membership statistics, click here.(temples are not meeting houses by the way. Each "ward" or "branch" is a congregation.
http://www.ldschurchtemples.com/statistics/

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#6405 Nov 21, 2012
Even Mormon churches are closing.

http://www.citysearch.com/profile/44643294/gr...

Sorry.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
"The Church has no debt." Of Missions, Temples, and Stewardship.
President Gordon B. Hinckley

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#6406 Nov 21, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, there are thousands of congregations that have different interpretations. But there are whole churches that espouse the same words and thoughts. That doesn't mean they are right, but it does help simplify the search for truth a bit.
That there is more than one, nullifies the entire concept of one all powerful god. There are clearly thousands of gods, none who has any more validity than the next one. All are the farcical tools of the spell caster, who is your only liaisons to the gods.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#6408 Nov 21, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Once you are an LDS I read you are always one even if you leave the cult they don't remove your name from their roster.
Mormons are such idiots! Jesus came to America and there were horses all over the place! Whoops!
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha haha!
<quoted text>
There is evidence that there were horses in America before Christ.
http://maxwellinstitute.byu.edu/publications/...

Why can't Christ have visited the Americas as the Book of Mormon claims? Christ said in the bible that he had other sheep that he needed to bring into his fold.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#6409 Nov 22, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Kind of hung up on that Pi thing aren't ya buddy?
People are building things using their forearms as a measuring stick and you're all hung up on the .1415....
You know you're insane right?
Nut case!
Its such a beautiful thing when you fundies admit you've lost....

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#6410 Nov 22, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct! Non belief.
Atheist BELIEVE there is no God or Gods.
Believing in something that cannot be proven is faith. Another interchangeable word for faith is RELIGION.
Yawn....in other words, the largest religion on earth is made up of the billions of people who believe there is no Tooth Fairy.

Just stop, KJV, you're embarrassing yourself...
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#6411 Nov 22, 2012
derek4 wrote:
..Deism is the only religion which is science friendly. The naturalistic approach to science should be encouraged because eventually by the process of elimination, it can indirectly provide evidence for a Creator and with time maybe find not only evidence of a Creator, but the Creator itself.
So what are you arguing deism now or the christian god. Which one? Cause there is a world of difference between the two.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#6412 Nov 22, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
And, as you know, your family is planning a big party on the day they finally get rid of you.
Sick post. Lack of humanity and compassion, once again confirming that you fail as a christian.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#6413 Nov 22, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
He grew up, was crucified, and resurrected, and when your short life has ended, he will see that you get the justice you deserve
And there is a celestial teapot orbiting between earth and mars in a celestial orbit.

Just as likely. Think about it.
oral roberts

Warwick, RI

#6414 Nov 22, 2012
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>And there is a celestial teapot orbiting between earth and mars in a celestial orbit.

Just as likely. Think about it.
Hail the teapot!!! Praise the holy steam and it's wisdom!!!!

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#6415 Nov 22, 2012
derek4 wrote:
Atheists are often people who have been wronged by religious people
Who hasn't been wronged by your church? Christians like you are the most wronged by it. You've been very badly damaged by the Christian religion.
derek4 wrote:
Atheists ... rage against people for being so stupid as to believe in a god.
Nobody cares if you believe in a god enough to rage. We chuckle.

Please feel free to keep shaking your scary chicken on the stick in the privacy of your home or church if that is what gives your life meaning. Just keep the chicken out of our lives. Nobody but you cares what the chicken thinks about gay marriage, stem cell research, school prayer, sex between consenting adults, abortion, or anything else.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#6416 Nov 22, 2012
derek4 wrote:
I have never read or heard an atheist argument that relied solely on logic.
Then you have never read any atheist's words. Try these:

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence" - Carl Sagan

“What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence." – Christopher Hitchens

"Those who cavalierly reject the Theory of Evolution, as not adequately supported by facts, seem quite to forget that their own theory is supported by no facts at all." - Herbert Spencer

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#6417 Nov 22, 2012
derek4 wrote:
Atheists have a bleak view of the universe: there is no purpose to life, no code of ethics to guide us, no comfort in tragedy and death.
I consider the universe mysterious, awesome, and worthy of reverence. Its study is a spiritual experience, filled with a sense of awe and gratitude. To you, it is "the world," a phrase that you utter sneeringly, contemptuously. You have no interest in our common world or this lives in it, just some imagined other-world and a promised afterlife. In fact, you anxiously await the destruction of the world like its a good thing.

Most atheists are secular humanists, who take ethics very seriously. From "The Affirmations of Humanism"

• We believe in the cultivation of moral excellence.

• We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.

• We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.

• We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.

• We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.

• We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.

• We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.

• We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#6418 Nov 22, 2012
derek4 wrote:
[Atheists] seemingly cannot present a logical point of view on the subject of religion that does not rely on distortions or attacks.
Here's one: You can't refute atheism without producing a god. Atheism is simply the refusal to accept claims about gods based on unevidenced claims about them.
derek4 wrote:
There is simply cold, brutal Darwinism, a short, meaningless existence, and then utter nothingness.
Your Christianity has deformed your thinking. There is so much more to life than you seem to be aware of. My life is rich and full, and is imbued with meaning and purpose.

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