Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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#6336
Nov 20, 2012
 
Adam wrote:
<quoted text>
That describes Christians perfectly. They believe stuff without evidence, and ignore evidence which contradicts their beliefs.
Where we differ is the free thinkers here are critical of supernatural claims, and question bizarre claims and magical thinking. That is how to think rationally.
Don't flatter yourself. You're not free thinkers, you all come from the same mold, lol.

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#6337
Nov 20, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately for you, the evidence for Evolution is something you can only dream about.
You can deny evolution if you like but then you can also say the moon is made of cheese.
I don't need your okay to say anything, lol. Darwin brought us fraudulent science and Khatru religiously accepts it.

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#6338
Nov 20, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't help but notice your failure to cite the scripture that describes the earth as a sphere. Perhaps that's because there isn't one and you're lying for the baby Jesus again.
Given the Bible's ratio for Pi, this is hardly surprising. Your god has some pretty funny ideas about what a sphere is.
You're so intelligent, but you don't know how to find a scripture? It's elementary, lmao. I've included a link for you.

You need to read your Bible, and you would know what it says. You've just shown your ignorance, AGAIN lol.

http://debunkingatheists.blogspot.com/2008/08...

In your next post you wrote:you just keep on failing to refute us.- No, I don't fail to refute you, lmao. Many of your posts and others I simply don't read, and I consistently refuse to waste my time on more than 3 or 4 of atheists' gibberish posts.

It wouldn't matter what anyone said who is on the opposite side of you, you wouldn't accept it if they said black was black and white was white, so why should I bother? Do I care what you think? No.

I didn't ask you to respond to my posts, nor do I care if you do or not. Ignore them if you wish. Read them if you wish do whatever turns you on, lol.

You post opinions. I don't know you or respect you, so your opinions carry no weight with me. Further, I don't really care what you do, what you say, or whether you like it or not. Participating in the forum assigns no obligation to me to address anything. So deal with it - my present policy will continue, lol.

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#6339
Nov 20, 2012
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Posted else where by derek4
From: The Columbus Dispatch:
February 4, 2011
Church, without God
“Stan Bradley likes Bible stories, admires Martin Luther and uses expressions such as 'heavens, no.'
The Lithopolis man is president of a local congregation and rarely misses a Sunday service. Occasionally, he goes to his wife's church instead.
For these and other reasons, Bradley considers himself religious.”
He is also an atheist.
continued:
“Like Bradley, some atheists participate in organized religion for its social and psychological benefits.”
continued:
“Churches are great places to find friends, support and youth education, so nonbelievers and believers alike join congregations to fill those needs, he said.
He has spoken to elderly and sick people who can no longer go to church and they say they most miss the feeling of community.
Recent research from Harvard University and the University of Wisconsin backs him up. It found that religious people tend to be happier than nonreligious people, not because of belief but because of the friendships found at church.”
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/faith...
“religious people tend to be happier than nonreligious people”[I have said this all along, and my posts are still on the board to confirm it. Now you hear it straight from the atheist, lol.]
I forgot about that one, KJV it goes back a ways, but I still have it saved somewhere. Thanks for bringing it back.

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#6340
Nov 20, 2012
 
Why do atheists lose debates?

I've seen a few atheists on the internet discuss why their side typically loses debates against theists, and they offer some theories, including the lack time to clarify their positions, their presentation of a weak case, etc. I must say, as a theist, these sound like pretty lame excuses.

continued:

Atheists just have an inadequate worldview. That's the best explanation for why their arguments are so quickly and easily defeated. Since the demise of the logical argument from evil, atheism is an untenable case. Sure, some atheists try to show that the concept of God is incoherent, but they've never been able to construct a convincing argument, and the probabilistic problem of evil is too presumptuous. At best, if atheists were successful in tearing down all of the classical theistic arguments for God, the only rationally justifiable position to take would be soft agnosticism, as hard agnosticism is also very presumptuous. How do you know that no one can know about God? How can you say you can't know anything about God, because saying that is positing a knowledge claim about God!
http://www.thinkinggodsthoughts.com/2010/09/w...

[Powerful great author, great points!!!!- Glad to share it with you.]

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#6341
Nov 20, 2012
 
Here's an atheist writing about atheists losing debates, lol:

Why atheists lose debates

I love the great atheism resource that is www.commonsenseatheism.org . LukeProg does an immense amount of excellent work asking the top philosophers difficult questions about atheism and philosophy. You should especially check out the catalog of 500 atheism/theism debates.

Anyway, I would like to share a great blog post from the Luke entitled, Why atheists lose debates. I think I mostly agree with him, although I really chalk it up to William Lane Craig being a one-man debate wrecking crew. He wins a lot of debates, but I also think that theists like Dinesh DSouza, Matt Slick, Frank Turek, and David Wholpe get clowned(yeah, I used a word an urban dictionary worddeal with it!) in debates as well.
http://anamericanatheist.org/2010/08/16/why-a...

[Atheists get clowned- LMAO]

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#6342
Nov 20, 2012
 
Atheist Matt Dillahunty loses debate says he doesnt know lol
http://www.yasradio.com/atheist-matt-dillahun...

[Dejected atheist caught on tape dreadfully losing the debate how embarrassing for him, lol.]

[There is no enduring truth in atheism.]

[There's no truth of ANY kind in atheism.]

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#6344
Nov 20, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Well hellllloooooo you've been away awhile I thought we lost you to the worms...... lol.
Even though you never post anything worthwhile, I always enjoy seeing those beautiful flowers in your avatar.
Oh, I've been wondering - have you learned who Darwin is yet?
(Hint: A fraudulent scientist who died in 1882)
We?

The socks that wear you, and yourself for that matter, have never had a moment when you were anything but ours to flick aside, when we choose. A veritable booger(snot spot), and nothing more.

Maybe if you can explain the significance of an evolutionist viewpoint, as it relates to my being atheist, I might find reason to care to look at your skewed ideas, but probably not.

That I have yet to see a single cause for voluntarily indulging in delusional fantasies, portends that only more of the same is in my future. I need no threat of punishment to force me do the right thing. I will do it with no eye to reward either. You and those like you have no concept of what the right thing is.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#6345
Nov 20, 2012
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist is a Religion.
Religion
Synonyms: credo, creed, cult, FAITH, persuasion
faith\ˈfāth\
noun
b (1): firm belief in something for which there is no proof
Atheism
Belief that there is no Deity or Deities.
Hence - Atheism = Religion
And he still plays the same losing hand again. It don't get any better than this. So this still applies >>>>

I just love it when you idiots haul out the poster board, colored streamers and spotlights, and start making up signs to point out, that there is a big empty spot between your ears.

Ladies and gentlemen, KJV would like you to all acknowledge his total absence of a point. Please join me in applauding his attempt to construct a religion out of nothing. Damn what a fail. Hey KJV, at least start with a concept. You know like Christainity did, copy some Pagan stuff. But be warned we may not be as easy bent as you lot were.

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#6346
Nov 20, 2012
 
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the same as saying you make it up as you go, exactly the same thing actually.
When something is left to interpretation it is inherently nothing more than fables, and cannot be asserted as fact. You actually degrade your bible more by saying that it needs interpretation, because you are also admitting you chose your particular christian religion just because you liked it, and that the book is not based on fact but it is nothing more than a means to an end.
FASB codification is based on face, yet it is subject to interpretation and implementation of accountants. That doesn't mean FASB codification is fables.

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#6347
Nov 20, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Then at most one of you has that, since no two of you can agree on what the words mean. I think that what you meant is that there is a state of mind wherein you accept the scriptures as divine revelation, and you call that being filled with the spirit or ghost.
<quoted text>
I doubt it. There's not much evidence of superhuman intelligence, wisdom, or prescience there.
Nah, There are whole congregations of people who agree on what the words mean.

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#6348
Nov 20, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
That's an puzzling juxtaposition of ideas. Those very errors are what allows to rule out that the words are of divine origin, or that if some are, they have been contaminated by error. How can you trust such a book?
Besides, inspired isn't nearly good enough for a god. West Side Story is inspired by Romeo and Juliet, The Flintstones were inspired by the Honeymooners, and Clapton's Crossroads was inspired by Robert Johnson's original version. In each case, the pairs are so dissimilar that you might not have noticed that they were even related. That's how much latitude the word "inspired " allows.
If you have an omnipotent god with a life or death message, and he lets unsophisticated goatherds ghost write it in part for him, well, you've got a lazy and irresponsible god there. Lazy isn't even the right word if it's no harder to write the words yourself than not. That's indifferent and negligent.
Let me rephrase it. If I wrote a will for you (I am not an attorney, and am not qualified to do that), told you that it was inspired by a will written by an attorney, and you found mistakes in it, would you risk your children's inheritance on that document?
That was an apt analogy, BTW, since most Christians are giving a large portion of what would have been their estate at death if they still had it and the interest it could have earned. I did the calculation for myself based on a 10% tithe, which amounts to a years income every eight to ten years depending on the return. I left the church around 1980, and retired in 2009 - about three decades. That's at least five years income before taxes, since the dollars from the eighties, which would have been compounding the whole time, would have tripled to quadrupled by now, the dollars from the nineties doubled, etc..
I retired with about five years income total. I'd say do the math, but I just did it. And I expect to leave most of it behind, since I am living just fine on the interest from it - not in America, of course, where interest has now dropped to nothing. And once Social Security begins, we'll be bringing in more than we spend.
Anyway, if I hadn't rejected the claims of the bible, the church would have ended up with most of that, and I'd still be working.
You can't convince me that I should have given all of that to the priests and their children based on the claims in a book full of errors.
The church I belong to doesn't have a paid ministry. Personally, I think its wrong for some one to get paid to preach the word of God. Christ said teachers of the gospel shouldn't be paid for teaching it. I totally agree with you there, I wouldn't have given all of that to the priests and their children either.

Ultimately, the Bible is the word of God, as far as it is translated correctly. How can you know if it is translated correctly? Answer: Modern day prophet. The scripture was written by inspired prophets of God, so who better to help us understand the written word and where it has been twisted?

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#6349
Nov 20, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Where does your god tell you that? That sounds like a rule invented by men for the sake of expediency.
<quoted text>
You all seem to have different guidelines, too. Earlier, you posted, "Personally, I go by the King James version of the Bible and the Book of Mormon." You must be aware that Catholics, for example, reject the Book of Mormon, and have their own bible. That also tells us that this is all man made, as I'm sure that the Catholics pray just as sincerely and diligently as the Mormons.
Or perhaps a lot of it (modern religion) is man made and some of it is actually divine direction from God.

Answer to interpretation question: 2 Peter 1:16-21 Pay special attention to verses 19-21

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#6350
Nov 20, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Christians have a god-shaped vacuum in their heads.
For sure ..... Hoovered!

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#6351
Nov 20, 2012
 
Response to:
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you figure that he is merciful? Because he deigns to forgive us for being human and not having godlike qualities - his own handiwork - if you'll grovel before him? If anybody needs forgiveness, it's the god that did that and then blamed its creation for its own manufacturing failures.
Besides, do you know what he does to unbelievers? He delivers them to an evil beast in a torture pit to be tortured for eternity. There is no mercy in that, because there is no mercy in hell, and no hope for a reprieve. How could a loving god be so cruel and unforgiving?
There's a contradiction for you, BTW - number ten on this list of contradictions about the god that I compiled :
[1] An omniscient being that grants free will
[2] An omnipotent being incapable of being in the presence of sin
[3] A perfect being needing worship
[4] A perfect being that changes its mind, as with new laws and covenants
[5] A perfect being that makes mistakes or contradicts itself
[6] A perfect being that creates or alters anything
[7] A non-spacial being being omnipresent
[8] An all-loving, omnipotent being that allows suffering.
[9] A perfectly just being that punishes innocents like firstborns.
[10] A merciful being that damns without hope of forgiveness from hell.
[11] Anything existing, persisting, thinking or acting outside of time. Those words all imply an interval of time.
I don't believe a lot of what you assumed I believe.

1. Its not really "free" free will if there are consequences and those consequences are redeemed at a price, which I am assuming there are if you are talking about Christians.

2. Is he incapable or are we incapable? IF he wants to be in some one's presence he can send the Holy Ghost to prepare and cleans the individual before he appears. God has appeared to imperfect men. See the story of Moses.

3. God doesn't need us or our worship, but we need him.

4. God's purposes are consistent, to bring about the immortality and eternal life of man. He does this differently for different people because we all have different needs. He teaches according to individual needs and sets different guidelines according to those needs. The people Moses led out of Egypt had different needs than the people Christ taught. Example: you aren't going to tell an adulterer to stay away from cigarettes and an alcoholic to stay away from pornography.(I know that is an imperfect example, but I think it illustrates the point)

5. God doesn't make mistakes. Yes, there is a verse in the Old Testament where is says that God hardened Pharaoh's heart, but that was not translated correctly. Yes there is a verse in the Old Testament where it says God repented, that is also not translated correctly.

6. What is wrong with a perfect being that creates?

7. I don't follow the non-spacial omnipresent thing. I think its pretty clear in scripture that God has a body. One example: How can God create man in his own image IF God doesn't have an image or body? How can Moses see God face to face if God doesn't have a face? God has a body, though some have tried to alienate God from mankind by proclaiming God to be unknowable, devoid body, parts or passions. Such a declaration, is in my opinion, a form of twisted atheism, because the believer, in effect, believes in nothing. I totally back you up on this one.

8. Parents allow suffering, yet they love their children. I don't think that is a contradiction. Suffering is part of learning in some cases.

9. I don't think God punishes new borns. That doctrine is not consistent with the Jesus Christ of the New Testament or Book of Mormon.

10. I don't believe that either. That is not found in scripture I have seen.

11. I don't think God acts outside of time.

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#6352
Nov 20, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you figure that he is merciful? Because he deigns to forgive us for being human and not having godlike qualities - his own handiwork - if you'll grovel before him? If anybody needs forgiveness, it's the god that did that and then blamed its creation for its own manufacturing failures.
Besides, do you know what he does to unbelievers? He delivers them to an evil beast in a torture pit to be tortured for eternity. There is no mercy in that, because there is no mercy in hell, and no hope for a reprieve. How could a loving god be so cruel and unforgiving?
There's a contradiction for you, BTW - number ten on this list of contradictions about the god that I compiled :
[1] An omniscient being that grants free will
[2] An omnipotent being incapable of being in the presence of sin
[3] A perfect being needing worship
[4] A perfect being that changes its mind, as with new laws and covenants
[5] A perfect being that makes mistakes or contradicts itself
[6] A perfect being that creates or alters anything
[7] A non-spacial being being omnipresent
[8] An all-loving, omnipotent being that allows suffering.
[9] A perfectly just being that punishes innocents like firstborns.
[10] A merciful being that damns without hope of forgiveness from hell.
[11] Anything existing, persisting, thinking or acting outside of time. Those words all imply an interval of time.
PS: Thank you for taking the time to respond thoughtfully to my assertions. In a way, I think you are doing many people a service, inviting people to reflect on their core beliefs.

You bring up a lot of good issues that people should be considering and pondering over. I think a lot of people don't take the time to think about what they hear from their parents or at church. Speaking from the experience of having spoken to many faithful people in the bible belt, sadly a lot of people don't know how to reconcile differences they see in scripture. Faith is required, but "just have faith" often isn't the best answer. It is important to question our beliefs and test them.

I also respect that you don't simply resort to name calling, as many people, both "believer" and non-believer do.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#6353
Nov 20, 2012
 

Judged:

1

Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Nah, There are whole congregations of people who agree on what the words mean.
... and there are whole other congregations, who don't.

Look right past those two examples and you will find literally thousands more congregations who might agree with just a word here and a thought there, but they won't be the same words or the same thought that the very next congregations are going to ascribe to.

In fact somewhere in all that mess you will find that every single word and thought will have someone lauding it's veracity, but you won't find two who would espouse the same words and thoughts.

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#6354
Nov 21, 2012
 
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Your loss not mine.
In other words, you were wrong.

Yeah, we know.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6355
Nov 21, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
That's the best way atheists present nothing new to the forum. Funny how much work they spend on posts that go nowhere if I'm not too busy once a week or so, I read some of their longer posts, but invariably, I see nothing worthwhile, and I wonder why I wasted my time so I then go back to my usual skim & skip, lol.--- I sometimes just click go to last page, but I really don't like to do that unless I'm in a big hurry, because I don't want to miss your posts or posts of other Christians. Keep up your good work against the atheist minorities.
Behold the Christian mind slammed shut.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

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#6356
Nov 21, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Behold the Christian mind slammed shut.
One of the problems for many people, is that beliefs come naturally. Skepticism comes unnaturally. To be a skeptic sometimes you not only have to swim against the tide of other peoples' opinions. But also you have to combat want can be a superstitious tendency in all of us. I think that evolution have had gifted up with some irrational behaviours. We may hear a noise in the house, and assume its an intruder, or maybe even a ghost, without first thinking it could be wind or mice, for example. I guess the early hominids in the savanna would have heard a rustle in the grass. They would naturally assume this was a predator rather than the wind. This paranoia would give them a better chance of survival. Perhaps this is part of the reason our brains are wired to believe in supernatural things. Your thoughts?

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