Don't dictate beliefs

[derek4]

The Bitter Fruits of Atheism

“Not only does atheistic evolution devalue human life, it also taints many of the most important areas of human interaction. Sexuality is one area of human behavior that has been completely disrupted by the erroneous concepts of evolution and atheism. In a work he titled Ends and Means, atheist Aldous Huxley wrote:


I had motives for not wanting the world to have meaning; consequently, assumed it had none, and was able without any difficulty to find reasons for this assumption.... For myself, as no doubt for most of my contemporaries, the philosophy of meaninglessness was essentially an instrument of liberation. The liberation we desired was simultaneously liberation from a certain political and economic system and liberation from a certain system of morality. We objected to the morality because it interfered with our sexual freedom (1937, pp. 270, 273, emp. added).

Following Huxley’s argument, if we assume that the world was not created by God, and that there is ultimately no real meaning to human existence, then we can have sex with whomever, whenever, and in whatever way we choose. Evolutionary atheism offers sexual deviance a blank check to be filled out in whatever way each “naked ape” chooses.”
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.asp...

[“the philosophy of meaninglessness”]

[Yes, athesists may as well just “do it in the road”, lol.]

[derek4]

Can The Atheist Be Moral?[hahahaha]

“Having the benefit of the Bible and the ten commandments as a guide, I struggle to see where the atheist might get his morality from because it is not externally revealed to him in any way. The code of ethics that the atheist believes in is internal meaning he draws it from his own self, his knowledge and experience, to create a rule of behavior that is universally applicable to all mankind. This is called humanism and it is the most widely accepted philosophy on ethics among atheists. And if we are to consider that the atheist does not believe in humanism, that man determines his own morality, that what other options are there? If God does not make the rules and man does not make the rules then the only other option is to say that there are no rules to begin with. And this is the very absence of morality that I believe is consistent with atheism.

continued:

If atheism leads us to humanism, then humanism also traces its roots to evolution. A belief in evolution is even listed as one of the six points of humanism under the current version of the Humanist Manifesto, so this should be undisputed. If we look at evolutionary theory we find that one of the closest kin to human beings is the monkey. Monkeys are notoriously promiscuous creatures, preferring multiple mating partners and mostly showing no signs of monogamy. If rampant, undiscerning procreation furthers the goals of evolution and this behavior is modeled in our closest evolutionary ancestor, then why is adultery wrong for human beings?”
http://www.examiner.com/article/can-the-athei...

[May as well just live like horny animals.]

[Adam]

derek4 wrote:

<quoted text>
You made yourself a hypocrite. Other than that, nothing special about you - just plain old barnyard trash, lol.

Your posts are full of judgment and lacking in compassion. Yes, you have been busted for being a false christian.

[derek4]

An Encounter with Madalyn Murray O'Hair

“Mrs. O'Hair ... proceeded to do her standard diatribe against Christianity. She stated that Christians needed God as an emotional crutch and that they were not known as critical thinkers or intellectual giants. I remarked to her that C.S. Lewis, Alexander Solzhenitsyn and Malcolm Muggeridge were all Christians and no slouches in the intellectual department. With a sneer in her voice, O'Hair dismissed them as second-rate writers.

[Yeah? Second rate, huh? And what is her rating? A NOBODY.]

O'Hair continued her comments by stating that she had suffered for her stand on atheism. As an example, she mentioned that Baptist boys (how she knew that they were Baptists, I'll never know unless she interviewed them) regularly pelted her house in Austin with rocks. She derisively questioned whether this was an example of Christian love.

Without a moment's thought, I blurted out "Well Jesus Christ loves you and because I am a Christian, so do I." There was a long silence as loud as Niagara Falls, and because this was live television the host embarrassingly and quickly moved the subject to something else. After the end of the program I drove back to Fort Worth and to the singles Bible study, "Icthus 2," that I belonged to and which met every Thursday night.

As they did every Thursday night, our singles group had watched the TV program but this night they were moved by my encounter with Mrs. O'Hair. We wanted to graphically show her that we loved her because of Jesus Christ. We then sent two dozen roses to her Austin headquarters. The message read, "From David Williams, the KERA Commentator who said that he loved you because of Jesus Christ, and Icthus 2, the singles ministry of McKinney Memorial Bible Church. We love you because God loves you."

Years later I met her son, Bill Murray, who had become a Christian evangelist. I recounted this story to him. Tears welled up in his eyes. He said, "David, you might never realize how God used that act of Christian love by your singles group and you."

We don't know if Mrs. O'Hair ever secretly came to Christ. Her body along with those of one of her sons, Jon Garth Murray, and her grand daughter, Robin Murray O'Hair, was found on a South Texas ranch in 2001.

My encounter with Mrs. O'Hair confirmed to me that although on the surface a person might come across confident in their belief system, deep in side there is a struggle going on. The Jewish philosopher Philo of Alexandria said, "Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a great battle."
http://www.crosswalk.com/faith/spiritual-life...

[She was a hate-filled, miserable, unhappy person, and she died the same way.]

[derek4]

"What kind of God would cast His creatures in hell?"

Ummm...What kind of police man puts a killer in jail?

A MIGHTY GOOD ONE!

“Some scoffer's work themselves up to believing that God is not good because He casts people in hell. They are simply following the lead of their devil-possessed mother, Mad Madalyn (O'Hair)--

"We find God to be sadistic, brutal and a representation of hatred."

Is that so Madalyn? I think many people would ascribe those attributes to you.”
http://www.spreadhisword.org/jil/whatkind.htm

[I've seen films of Madalyn – she lived a bitter, hate-filled life.]

[derek4]

Atheists have shorter life span.

“The oldest group of people in the country is a community of Seventh Day Adventists residing in Loma Linda, California. They have an average life expectancy of 88 years (a full ten years longer than the U.S. average). One reason may be that Adventists don't drink or smoke, and many follow the vegetarian diet the church advises. But not all members do, and even the meat-eaters live significantly longer than average. Dr. Gary Fraser, a researcher with the Loma Linda University School of Public Health who is researching the community, told the BBC. "At this moment we don't really know, but people who go to church regularly- whatever faith they have- live longer, and there's no question about that."
http://www.createdebate.com/debate/show/Athei...

[When you live a meaningless life and go around with hate, you live a shorter life. The worms won't have to wait as long for you.]

[Adam]

derek4 wrote:

Having the benefit of the Bible and the ten commandments as a guide,..

The christian story book is not a very good moral guide at all. As you MUST know by now, Just one example, slavery. Erm, no very moral. You dont need to believe in fairy tales to be moral. Morality evolved in human beings because we are highly evolved animals.

[Adam]

derek4 wrote:

When you live a meaningless life and go around with hate, you live a shorter life.

Our lives are not meaningless. We each give ourselves meaning to our lives as we see fit. Just come some of us have woken up and have brains not to follow round like sheep.

And btw you will notice a lot of bile directed by theists on these forums. Proof of their hypocrisy.

[swerty]

JESUS SAVES!

Darwin scores on the rebound.

derek4 wrote:

Spiritual Atheists and Nonliteral Theists
“A gathering place for Spiritual Atheists and Nonliteral Theists around the world.”
“We don't believe in the existence of an entity external to the universe that supposedly created and rules the universe; but we are SPIRITUAL”
http://operationliberation.ning.com/
[LMAO]

[Adam]

It aint necessarily so wrote:

<quoted text>
Humanist values are far superior to that ancient, irrational and failed ethical system. From the Affirmations of Humanism:
• We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.
• We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.
• We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.
• We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.
• We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.
• We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.
• We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.
• We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.
• We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.
• We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.
• We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.
• We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.
• We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.

+1 nice list of values.

[Khatru]

derek4 wrote:

<quoted text>
You've made many foolish observations, haven't you Khatru? You didn't realize Noah and his family made up 100% of the population, and you stuck your foot in your mouth. That wasn't difficult for you – your mouth is enormous.

It's a sorry state of affairs when the best argument you have is mythology.

[Khatru]

It aint necessarily so wrote:

<quoted text>
In American slang, that's a 5150:
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php...

Cheers - I'll remember that one.

[Khatru]

It aint necessarily so wrote:

<quoted text>
They're carols, you lying thief. Here are four dictionaries that say so:
[1] Google dictionary: "A religious folk song or popular hymn, particularly one associated with Christmas: "singing Christmas carols around the tree."
[2] Free Online Dictionary: "1. A song of praise or joy, especially for Christmas."
[3] Merriam-Webster Dictionary: "1: an old round dance with singing
2: a song of joy or mirth <the carol of a bird — Lord Byron> "
[4] DictionaryDOTcom: "1.a song, especially of joy. 2.a Christmas song or hymn."
What won't you Christians lie about? What don't you try to steal for yourselves? What misinformation won't you spread? Your ethics have been skillfully deformed by your church.
Nothing from you or your miserable church can be trusted or taken at face value. Absolutely nothing.

Christians do nothing but lie.

Their religion is built on lies and fear - it's in their blood.
Unfortunately for them, their god puts liars in the same category as whoremongers and murderers.

Liars for Jesus don't have a rosy future to look forward to.

[Khatru]

Adam wrote:

I think Derek latched onto the subject of Christmas carols, because last week, I mentioned to him that I enjoy singing Christmas carols. To him, this made me some sort of hypocrite.
I have deconverted as a christian, but do not wish to avoid Christmas festivities, just because its based on myth. If Christmas grinches present hate christmasgood for them. Bah humbug!

Christmas means much to billions of people who don't believe in Jesus, and if Derek thinks that Christmas without Jesus is not Christmas, then he's out of touch. If he thinks altruism without Jesus is not altruism, then he's a dick.

[Khatru]

It aint necessarily so wrote:

<quoted text>
Noah is a fictional character and made up no part of any population ever. That's another "fib" from you Christians. Here's how we know:
[1] A wooden boat made to bible specifications would have broken in half with the first three foot wave.
[2] A wooden boat that size without a rudder would founder and sink with the first set of five foot waves. The largest ships made of wood, by teams of shipbuilders, using better technology have been no longer than 300 feet. The Santa Maria was only 75 feet long. Genesis 6:15 puts the ark at 450 feet. It would be impossible for a ship this size to be made seaworthy, especially in light of the technology and the building team.
[3] There was only one hatch - in the top. How did they muck out the manure of five million species of animals?
[4] Once the salt water receded, where was the vegetation necessary for life? What did the carnivores eat until the planet was repopulated? How did the animals get back to their habitats without food or fresh water?
[5] What did the meat-eaters eat? Every time Noah fed the lions or the tigers,*poof*- another species of animal goes extinct.
[6] There is not enough water on the earth, to flood all the mountains, as specified in the Bible.
[7] If it did rain enough water [magic?] to cover all the mountains in only forty days, the rainfall would be as dense as actual water - like being in a waterfall, which would have destroyed Noah's wooden boat in minutes.
[8] Noah did not bring trees on board. Trees die when drowned. Once Noah opened his boat, he would have seen nothing but deadwood and mud. All the herbivores would starve within days.
[9] If the human race descended from Noah and his sons, we would see a genetic bottleneck in the human genome roughly 4,000 years back. Do we see this? No.
[10] The population of the world is too high if all humanity came from only four breeding pairs a few thousand years ago.
[11] A 450 foot boat could not hold two or seven or whatever of every species. The number and variation of species of insects alone-- would have filled up the ark, hundreds of times over.
[12] Why are there ancient civilizations with continuous histories dating back to long before the generation of Noah? China and the Egyptians have such continuous histories, with no world sterilizing flood in them.
[13] Cave paintings in Europe are drawn in Charcoal. Immersion in water would have erased them. These are 15,000 years and older.
[14] If there were a global flood, you would see a universal, world-wide layer of compressed mud dating the that time. This is not the case.
[15] Putting enough fresh water into the salt oceans to cover the mountains, would dilute it to dangerous levels killing all marine life
[16] The number and variation of species of insects alone would have filled up the ark hundreds of times over. The number and variation of bird species including unique species from all the islands, would have filled up the ark multiple times over.
[17] How did animals get from Australia to the ark, or from the ark back to Australia? The animals living there now go back to prehistoric times, and most are unique to that continent. Koalas require special diets. How did Mr and Mrs Koala carry their food with them all the way from Australia?
Your bible is a fraud.

Sometimes I read a scripture that describes Jehovah's murderous actions. The myth of the flood is a classic example.

Satan himself wouldn't commit such an evil act.

[Khatru]

derek4 wrote:

Can The Atheist Be Moral?[hahahaha]
“Having the benefit of the Bible and the ten commandments as a guide, I struggle to see where the atheist might get his morality from because it is not externally revealed to him in any way. The code of ethics that the atheist believes in is internal meaning he draws it from his own self, his knowledge and experience, to create a rule of behavior that is universally applicable to all mankind. This is called humanism and it is the most widely accepted philosophy on ethics among atheists. And if we are to consider that the atheist does not believe in humanism, that man determines his own morality, that what other options are there? If God does not make the rules and man does not make the rules then the only other option is to say that there are no rules to begin with. And this is the very absence of morality that I believe is consistent with atheism.
continued:
If atheism leads us to humanism, then humanism also traces its roots to evolution. A belief in evolution is even listed as one of the six points of humanism under the current version of the Humanist Manifesto, so this should be undisputed. If we look at evolutionary theory we find that one of the closest kin to human beings is the monkey. Monkeys are notoriously promiscuous creatures, preferring multiple mating partners and mostly showing no signs of monogamy. If rampant, undiscerning procreation furthers the goals of evolution and this behavior is modeled in our closest evolutionary ancestor, then why is adultery wrong for human beings?”
http://www.examiner.com/article/can-the-athei...
[May as well just live like horny animals.]

Our morals come from within.

Just like yours do.

Except that unlike you we think that child abuse, keeping slaves, hatred of women, genocide, killing people for being gay or for exercising freedom of religion are not wonderful acts of transcendent love.

[Khatru]

Adam wrote:

<quoted text>
The christian story book is not a very good moral guide at all. As you MUST know by now, Just one example, slavery. Erm, no very moral. You dont need to believe in fairy tales to be moral. Morality evolved in human beings because we are highly evolved animals.

Christians lie when they say they get their morals from the their god or the Bible.

Ask a Christian to share some biblical ethics and they will always opt for what they think are nice ethics while ignoring the less savoury ones.

Pat Condell says it best:

"Religious people often say that atheists have no morals because they have no moral guide. If you believe this, let me ask you something.

If you're a Christian, chances are the Bible is your moral guide, but is that all the Bible, or just some of it? It's just the good bits, isn't it? The bits you've cherrypicked because obviously if you wanted to live in a Leviticus-style society where people are stoned or mutilated for insane and trivial reasons, you could simply move to Iran.

But how do you decide which are the good bits and which are the bad in the Bible? What do you use as a moral guide? The Bible? Well, surely not. If so, you would simply accept the bad along with the good, which is clearly what the Bible wants you to do, otherwise the bad wouldn't be in there in the first place, would it? But no, you don't do that. You defy the Bible. You sift out the bad and discard it for the ignorant primitive barbarism it is. In short, you edit the Bible to suit your own sensibilities.

So where do you get the moral guidance to impose your authority on the word of the Bible? It has to come from a higher source, doesn't it?(These things usually do.) And it does, of course. It comes from you. You are a higher source than the Bible, a much higher source. The criminals who run religion don't want you to know or to act upon this because then their influence over you would be zero. Yet the evidence is clear. You sifted the good from the bad in the Bible without the Bible's help. You did it against the Bible's will, and you did it all on your own because, whether you like it or not, you have a conscience, which means that you are capable of distinguishing good from evil without the help of scripture, and you have just proven it beyond any shadow of doubt. So, in fact, the Bible is not your moral guide. You are. It doesn't provide you with a moral compass. You do. And the only faith you need is faith in yourself.

O happy day."

[It aint necessarily so]

derek4 wrote:

[Do atheists ever wonder why they are despised?]

Not at all. There is nothing to wonder about. It's the love of Jesus being spread through his minions. Nobody in the West but Christians propagates anti-atheist hate speech. Your bible teaches hatred for and persecution of those who disagree with you - including hatred against atheists explicitly, which is as ancient and as well known as the Old and New Testaments:

[1] "The fool says in his heart,'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1

[2] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8

In these holy scriptures, atheists are called vile, abominations, devoid of goodness, the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers, and fit for eternal pain. The result of such demonizing, marginalizing and dehumanizing hate speech is predictable. Here are three of your most prominent and influential Christians recapitulating the love of Jesus as they learned it in your vile book:

[3]“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”– George H. W. Bush

[4] "And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the Pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.' " - Jerry Falwell, to Pat Robertson, about 9/11

[5] Robertson responded: "Well, I totally concur ... We have insulted God at the highest level of our government. Then, we say,'Why does this happen?' It is happening because God Almighty is lifting His protection from us. Once that protection is gone, we are vulnerable because we are a free society." - Pat Robertson

========

I keep this collection of quotes handy and re-post them as a set frequently I like to remind everybody just like you did how despised atheists are are, and where it comes from - just who is responsible for their lives being more difficult and dangerous.

Be careful, though! You may well end up being marginalized and despised yourselves soon. Why? Because the worm is turning, and it will be our turn soon to define societal norms - to decide what is an abomination, and who is unfit to hold positions of trust such as elected office, teaching, adopting and coaching kids. From "British court says Christian couple can't be foster parents due to beliefs" at http://snipurl.com/25ncm8j :

"Two British judges ruled that a Christian couple can no longer participate in the foster care of children, because of their conviction that a homosexual lifestyle is immoral.

Eunice and Owen Johns, aged 62 and 65, are Pentecostal Christians from the city of Derby ... said [they] were “extremely distressed” at the ruling.

“All we wanted to do was to offer a loving home to a child in need,” Eunice Johns said.“We have a good track record as foster parents, but because we are Christians with mainstream views on sexual ethics, we are apparently unsuitable as foster parents.”

“The judges have suggested that our views might harm children. We have been told by the Equality and Human Rights Commission that our moral views may ‘infect’ a child."

I applaud that. Christian values not appropriate for children. Nobody ever need feel badly about protecting children from Christians.

[It aint necessarily so]

derek4 wrote:

[nothing to be thankful for, pore thang.....]

Negro, please! I don't need to rebut that.

[It aint necessarily so]

Nikki wrote:

The only thing you're going to respond to is a language mistake I made because English is my third language, really? I think I'm done feeding the troll.

You didn't make a language mistake (with the word "carol"). The troll did.He lied to you. Don't ever take his word for anything.