Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#6117
Nov 17, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
INVARIABLY, that word “science” or scientist” pops up into almost everything atheists write about their opinions, yet they try to say atheism and science are unrelated.
My atheism is older than my understanding of science, and as such is neither derived from science, nor dependent on it.

But my understanding of science fortifies my conviction that my instincts are correct. Science strongly implies atheism in at least four ways:

[1] Science and secular humanism, validate the principle of rational skepticism, which requires the rejection of unevidenced claims such as those of the existence of gods.

[2] Science has first shown that we don't need a god to run the universe, and now that we didn't need one to build it.

[3] Science shows us that every creation myth has been a fabrication, and that prayer is not answered.

[4] Scientists have been studying the universe closely and carefully at all scales for centuries never found a scintilla of evidence for a designer.
derek4 wrote:
So can an atheist be spritual? The answer is yes. Atheists are spiritual, religious people. They worship their science god.
Spirituality is completely unrelated to worship. And it's not dependent on science, although the scientific journey is a path to the mystical state. But so are some hallucinogens, as are fasting and meditating, and some activities like gardening and making music.

Spirituality is precisely this: a psychological state of connectivity with the universe associated with a sense of mystery, awe and gratitude. You don't get that with Christian misanthropy (self-loathing), nor from groveling in worship, which only creates a sense of inferiority and dependence. Worship is demeaning and infantilizing, and as such, constitutes an impediment to the spiritual state.

The question s whether it is possible for a theist to experience authentic spirituality given all of that baggage.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#6118
Nov 17, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
What would Derek think if I created millions of robots and instructed them to worship me, sing songs to me, pray to me, etc?
Well, soon robots will be more intelligent than him.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6119
Nov 18, 2012
 
Nikki wrote:
Let's clear some stuff up, shall we?

Science =/= god

Spirituality =/= religion

And although some atheist may be scientists, not all atheists are scientists and not all scientists are atheists.

Am I going slowly enough for you to keep up? Cause I know you people seem to miraculously lose the ability to read English when people say these kinds of things...

Now, as strange as it may seem to christians, who pretty much all have to follow the same rules written in the same book (and are really pretty bad at that) atheists are a pretty diverse group of people. We really only have one thing in common: we don't believe in any gods.
That's it.

So it's perfectly possible there are atheists out there that believe their chakras are connected to the earth's magnetic core and get recharged by running around naked in a field of daisies every other full moon.

Here's a shocking fact for you: unless they start to broadcast it on television, teach it to kids at school or try to make me strip down and join them I honestly don't care.
Nice post. Welcome back.

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/2012-presiden...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6120
Nov 18, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
Good call! Totally needy emo sums her up pretty well. Maybe emogit :)
My entire exposure to the word "git" comes from one Beatles' song - I'm So Tired. Apparently "Sir Walter Raleigh was such a stupid git (or get)" for introducing tobacco to London, for which John Lennon was cursing him.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6121
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
Here's a list of famous Christian hypocrites.
All were inspired by the Bible.

1.5 Neville Johnson, 1983
1.7 Peter Popoff, 1987
1.14 Bob Moorehead, 1998
1.21 Paul Crouch, 2004
1.40 Eddie L. Long, 2010
1.45 Allan Cundick, 2011
Cundick? I think that we could have predicted sex scandals for the people with those names.

Didn't Neville Johnson convert to Islam and change his name to Mustafa?

Since: Mar 11

Chicago, IL

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#6122
Nov 18, 2012
 

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Nice :)

Never smoked myself so I can agree totally there.

I heard the spoony one call people emogit and it just stuck with me :)

Wanker, git sometimes those British insults sound so proper :)
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
My entire exposure to the word "git" comes from one Beatles' song - I'm So Tired. Apparently "Sir Walter Raleigh was such a stupid git (or get)" for introducing tobacco to London, for which John Lennon was cursing him.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6123
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
What kind of knots and contortions has Dereks mind been twisted to for him to have such a warped view?
We see an awful lot of that type of extreme deformation of thought from theists here on Topix.

If you were testing mental status on these people, you'd either have to give their religious thinking a pass, or call them insane. Without a program of indoctrination to account for that degree of reality denial and tortured ethics, you'd have to call a person insane who defines love in terms of torture and crucifixion, who sees man as loathsome, who sees the world as deeply flawed and and of little value, who terrorizes children with tales of hellfire, and who speaks to unseen presences and expects them to help him.

So why aren't they considered insane anyway? Because it was done to them rather than it being an endogenous psychosis? Becuase it is an imposed nihilistic pessimism and not depression?

That may be relevant to prognosis. I don't believe that the Christian problem responds to antipsychotic medication, for example. But isn't the degree of impairment the same whatever its etiology?

If Derek weren't a Christian, and he still behaved like he does, wouldn't we be deeply concerned?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6124
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
What would Derek think if I created millions of robots and instructed them to worship me, sing songs to me, pray to me, etc?
Would you hide from them after that?

And for the ones who couldn't find you, would you keep them alive forever just to torture them for that insult?

He'd worship you.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

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#6125
Nov 18, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
My atheism is older than my understanding of science, and as such is neither derived from science, nor dependent on it.
But my understanding of science fortifies my conviction that my instincts are correct. Science strongly implies atheism in at least four ways:
[1] Science and secular humanism, validate the principle of rational skepticism, which requires the rejection of unevidenced claims such as those of the existence of gods.
[2] Science has first shown that we don't need a god to run the universe, and now that we didn't need one to build it.
[3] Science shows us that every creation myth has been a fabrication, and that prayer is not answered.
[4] Scientists have been studying the universe closely and carefully at all scales for centuries never found a scintilla of evidence for a designer.
<quoted text>
Spirituality is completely unrelated to worship. And it's not dependent on science, although the scientific journey is a path to the mystical state. But so are some hallucinogens, as are fasting and meditating, and some activities like gardening and making music.
Spirituality is precisely this: a psychological state of connectivity with the universe associated with a sense of mystery, awe and gratitude. You don't get that with Christian misanthropy (self-loathing), nor from groveling in worship, which only creates a sense of inferiority and dependence. Worship is demeaning and infantilizing, and as such, constitutes an impediment to the spiritual state.
The question s whether it is possible for a theist to experience authentic spirituality given all of that baggage.
You're bang on the nail here.

Atheism and non-belief doesn't need science and as ideas, they have existed long before the scientific method was developed by free-thinking humans.

When we look at religion and science we're comparing the massive failure of superstitious mumbo jumbo to the spectacular success of methodical study.

Only yesterday we saw how a newly-developed vaccine for Meningitis B will reduce infant mortality rates.

That's the same Meningitis B that Derek firmly believes was magicked into existence by his invisible sky pixie, although for some reason, Christians always neglect to mention it when they rattle off a list of their god's creations.

What about smallpox? That's another dirty creation of their god that they won't praise their god for making when they sing "All Things Bright and Beautiful"

How many people have died from the smallpox virus? It's impossible to tell but it's probably millions. Of course, it's thanks to science that this terrible disease is all but eradicated.

I guess it's possible that the virus may yet evolve into a new strain, but of course Derek will take it as another of his god's creations and no doubt interpret the deaths of many more humans as further evidence of his deity's transcendent love for humanity.

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#6126
Nov 18, 2012
 

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KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, soon robots will be more intelligent than him.
We've already got them.

Here are some...

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

"small robotic cockroaches that scurry all over the place"

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#6127
Nov 18, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
My entire exposure to the word "git" comes from one Beatles' song - I'm So Tired. Apparently "Sir Walter Raleigh was such a stupid git (or get)" for introducing tobacco to London, for which John Lennon was cursing him.
Ah, we use that word a lot over here.

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#6128
Nov 18, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
If Derek weren't a Christian, and he still behaved like he does, wouldn't we be deeply concerned?
He'd probably be close to being sectioned.

“I Am No One Else”

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Seattle

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#6129
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
We've already got them.
Here are some...
http://www.youtube.com/watch...
"small robotic cockroaches that scurry all over the place"
lol Good one.

I want a NAO, those things look so cute, and I can install my own AI into one.
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

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#6130
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post, Nikki!
Nice to see you back here!
You'll find that Derek backs down when challenged. Clearly those christian cojones are very small indeed.
Good to see some things never change then. I kind of prefer the ones that back down eventually to the ones that stick their fingers in their ears and scream louder though.

It's nice to be back. Real life has been kicking my ass these past few years. Getting settled in as a teacher has required ridiculous amounts of effort.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6131
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
When we look at religion and science we're comparing the massive failure of superstitious mumbo jumbo to the spectacular success of methodical study.

Only yesterday we saw how a newly-developed vaccine for Meningitis B will reduce infant mortality rates.

How many people have died from the smallpox virus? It's impossible to tell but it's probably millions. Of course, it's thanks to science that this terrible disease is all but eradicated.
Good point. Science rules, Jesus drools.

Notice that an ungrateful person like Derek can benefit as much from science as people like you and me, who appreciates and praises it. If Derek would like to see humanist ethics at work compared to his god's version, and why people like me look forward to the day that humanist values will supplant Christian in the areas where they contradict one another, they need look no further than this:

Notice that nobody wants to deny Derek or his children the benefits of science - which is the exact opposite of his god's ethics, a system of eternal reward for believers, and eternal punishment for choosing the wrong side.

Humanist ethics are much more rational and compassionate, because those are the qualities we admire in others and try to cultivate in ourselves. This particular Christian value is vengeful, vainglorious, sadistic, and a merciless, disproportionate response in the extreme.

Is there a worse exemplar of rational, compassionate ethics than that petulant, irrational, self-indulgent, unkind and unjust sky monster Jehovah?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6132
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, we use that word a lot over here.
Good to know. You might recall how fond I am of Anglicisms. I've learned a few here on Topix.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#6133
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
He'd probably be close to being sectioned.
http://seansturm.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/... [artist's conception of Derek being sectioned]

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#6134
Nov 18, 2012
 
Nikki wrote:
<quoted text>
tl;dr : but I'm pretty sure the whole copy paste thing boils down to your last three sentences any way.
Let's clear some stuff up, shall we?
Science =/= god
Spirituality =/= religion
And although some atheist may be scientists, not all atheists are scientists and not all scientists are atheists.
Am I going slowly enough for you to keep up? Cause I know you people seem to miraculously lose the ability to read English when people say these kinds of things...
Now, as strange as it may seem to christians, who pretty much all have to follow the same rules written in the same book (and are really pretty bad at that) atheists are a pretty diverse group of people. We really only have one thing in common: we don't believe in any gods.
That's it.
So it's perfectly possible there are atheists out there that believe their chakras are connected to the earth's magnetic core and get recharged by running around naked in a field of daisies every other full moon.
Here's a shocking fact for you: unless they start to broadcast it on television, teach it to kids at school or try to make me strip down and join them I honestly don't care.
Hi Nikki, and welcome to our forum. We are all delighted to have you with us.

Sorry to have to tell you this, but I found your post sort of boring – I kept looking for gems of wisdom – but - oops, they weren't there, lol.

By the way, why did you post, since - as you say - you don't care, lol?

Have a great day. Get into a good atheist church. I can send you some links if you need them – let me know.

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#6135
Nov 18, 2012
 
Nikki wrote:
<quoted text>
Good to see some things never change then. I kind of prefer the ones that back down eventually to the ones that stick their fingers in their ears and scream louder though.
It's nice to be back. Real life has been kicking my ass these past few years. Getting settled in as a teacher has required ridiculous amounts of effort.
Yes, my heart just goes out to you in your struggles - I imagine being a teacher is an overwhelming effort for you, Nikki. To teach, you have to know something, lol.

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#6136
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a list of famous Christian hypocrites.
All were inspired by the Bible.
1.1 Aimee Semple McPherson, 1920s–40s
1.2 Lonnie Frisbee, 1970s–1980s
1.3 Marjoe Gortner, early 1970s
1.4 Billy James Hargis, early 1970s
1.5 Neville Johnson, 1983
1.6 Jimmy Swaggart, Marvin Gorman, Jim and Tammy Bakker, 1986 and 1991
1.7 Peter Popoff, 1987
1.8 Morris Cerullo, 1990s
1.9 Mike Warnke, 1991
1.10 Robert Tilton, 1991
1.11 Melissa Scott, 1992
1.12 Jim Williams, 1994
1.13 W. V. Grant, 1996 and 2003
1.14 Bob Moorehead, 1998
1.15 Ian Bilby,1998
1.16 Roy Clements, 1999
1.17 John Paulk, 2000
1.18 Frank Houston, 2000
1.19 Roberts Liardon, 2001
1.20 Pat Mesiti, 2001
1.21 Paul Crouch, 2004
1.22 Douglas Goodman, 2004
1.23 Paul Cain, 2005
1.24 Wayne Hughes, 2005
1.25 Kent Hovind, 2006
1.26 Ted Haggard, 2006
1.27 Paul Barnes, 2006
1.28 Lonnie Latham, 2006
1.29 Gilbert Deya, 2006
1.30 Earl Paulk, 2007
1.31 Coy Privette, 2007
1.32 Thomas Wesley Weeks, III, 2007
1.33 Ira Parmenter, 2007
1.34 Michael Reid, 2008
1.35 Joe Barron, 2008
1.36 Todd Bentley, 2008
1.37 Michael Guglielmucci, 2008
1.38 Ergun Caner, 2010
1.39 George Alan Rekers, 2010
1.40 Eddie L. Long, 2010
1.41 Marcus Lamb, 2010
1.42 Vaughn Reeves, 2010
1.43 Stephen Green, 2011
1.44 Albert Odulele, 2011
1.45 Allan Cundick, 2011
1.46 David Yonggi Cho, 2011
1.47 Jason Russell, 2012
1.48 Kong Hee, 2012
1.49 Jack Schaap, 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scandals...
Of course this is hardly scratching the surface and if you want to read about what being a Christian means then you can also look here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convicte...
Gosh, that was a relatively short list – I didn't count, but compared to the vast number of Christians in the world, I would expect to see a longer list, lol.

You should be a Christian and be faithful to God. Christians and fraudulent atheist scientists often fail; God doesn't.

Here's a list of an un-famous atheist hypocrite:

Khatru

(known for lying byt attending funerals “out of respect”, but having no respect – just likes to sit in the funeral and think of worms burrowing in and out of dead relatives eye sockets.)

Start doing better, Khatru – get spiritual, pray today to your moon and science god, LMAO.

Get up off your rump and go to your church. Take your checkbook.

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