Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Comments
5,761 - 5,780 of 11,175 Comments Last updated Jan 18, 2014
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6130
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Great post, Nikki!
Nice to see you back here!
You'll find that Derek backs down when challenged. Clearly those christian cojones are very small indeed.
Good to see some things never change then. I kind of prefer the ones that back down eventually to the ones that stick their fingers in their ears and scream louder though.

It's nice to be back. Real life has been kicking my ass these past few years. Getting settled in as a teacher has required ridiculous amounts of effort.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6131
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
When we look at religion and science we're comparing the massive failure of superstitious mumbo jumbo to the spectacular success of methodical study.

Only yesterday we saw how a newly-developed vaccine for Meningitis B will reduce infant mortality rates.

How many people have died from the smallpox virus? It's impossible to tell but it's probably millions. Of course, it's thanks to science that this terrible disease is all but eradicated.
Good point. Science rules, Jesus drools.

Notice that an ungrateful person like Derek can benefit as much from science as people like you and me, who appreciates and praises it. If Derek would like to see humanist ethics at work compared to his god's version, and why people like me look forward to the day that humanist values will supplant Christian in the areas where they contradict one another, they need look no further than this:

Notice that nobody wants to deny Derek or his children the benefits of science - which is the exact opposite of his god's ethics, a system of eternal reward for believers, and eternal punishment for choosing the wrong side.

Humanist ethics are much more rational and compassionate, because those are the qualities we admire in others and try to cultivate in ourselves. This particular Christian value is vengeful, vainglorious, sadistic, and a merciless, disproportionate response in the extreme.

Is there a worse exemplar of rational, compassionate ethics than that petulant, irrational, self-indulgent, unkind and unjust sky monster Jehovah?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6132
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, we use that word a lot over here.
Good to know. You might recall how fond I am of Anglicisms. I've learned a few here on Topix.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6133
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
He'd probably be close to being sectioned.
http://seansturm.files.wordpress.com/2012/01/... [artist's conception of Derek being sectioned]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6134
Nov 18, 2012
 
Nikki wrote:
<quoted text>
tl;dr : but I'm pretty sure the whole copy paste thing boils down to your last three sentences any way.
Let's clear some stuff up, shall we?
Science =/= god
Spirituality =/= religion
And although some atheist may be scientists, not all atheists are scientists and not all scientists are atheists.
Am I going slowly enough for you to keep up? Cause I know you people seem to miraculously lose the ability to read English when people say these kinds of things...
Now, as strange as it may seem to christians, who pretty much all have to follow the same rules written in the same book (and are really pretty bad at that) atheists are a pretty diverse group of people. We really only have one thing in common: we don't believe in any gods.
That's it.
So it's perfectly possible there are atheists out there that believe their chakras are connected to the earth's magnetic core and get recharged by running around naked in a field of daisies every other full moon.
Here's a shocking fact for you: unless they start to broadcast it on television, teach it to kids at school or try to make me strip down and join them I honestly don't care.
Hi Nikki, and welcome to our forum. We are all delighted to have you with us.

Sorry to have to tell you this, but I found your post sort of boring – I kept looking for gems of wisdom – but - oops, they weren't there, lol.

By the way, why did you post, since - as you say - you don't care, lol?

Have a great day. Get into a good atheist church. I can send you some links if you need them – let me know.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6135
Nov 18, 2012
 
Nikki wrote:
<quoted text>
Good to see some things never change then. I kind of prefer the ones that back down eventually to the ones that stick their fingers in their ears and scream louder though.
It's nice to be back. Real life has been kicking my ass these past few years. Getting settled in as a teacher has required ridiculous amounts of effort.
Yes, my heart just goes out to you in your struggles - I imagine being a teacher is an overwhelming effort for you, Nikki. To teach, you have to know something, lol.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6136
Nov 18, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
Here's a list of famous Christian hypocrites.
All were inspired by the Bible.
1.1 Aimee Semple McPherson, 1920s–40s
1.2 Lonnie Frisbee, 1970s–1980s
1.3 Marjoe Gortner, early 1970s
1.4 Billy James Hargis, early 1970s
1.5 Neville Johnson, 1983
1.6 Jimmy Swaggart, Marvin Gorman, Jim and Tammy Bakker, 1986 and 1991
1.7 Peter Popoff, 1987
1.8 Morris Cerullo, 1990s
1.9 Mike Warnke, 1991
1.10 Robert Tilton, 1991
1.11 Melissa Scott, 1992
1.12 Jim Williams, 1994
1.13 W. V. Grant, 1996 and 2003
1.14 Bob Moorehead, 1998
1.15 Ian Bilby,1998
1.16 Roy Clements, 1999
1.17 John Paulk, 2000
1.18 Frank Houston, 2000
1.19 Roberts Liardon, 2001
1.20 Pat Mesiti, 2001
1.21 Paul Crouch, 2004
1.22 Douglas Goodman, 2004
1.23 Paul Cain, 2005
1.24 Wayne Hughes, 2005
1.25 Kent Hovind, 2006
1.26 Ted Haggard, 2006
1.27 Paul Barnes, 2006
1.28 Lonnie Latham, 2006
1.29 Gilbert Deya, 2006
1.30 Earl Paulk, 2007
1.31 Coy Privette, 2007
1.32 Thomas Wesley Weeks, III, 2007
1.33 Ira Parmenter, 2007
1.34 Michael Reid, 2008
1.35 Joe Barron, 2008
1.36 Todd Bentley, 2008
1.37 Michael Guglielmucci, 2008
1.38 Ergun Caner, 2010
1.39 George Alan Rekers, 2010
1.40 Eddie L. Long, 2010
1.41 Marcus Lamb, 2010
1.42 Vaughn Reeves, 2010
1.43 Stephen Green, 2011
1.44 Albert Odulele, 2011
1.45 Allan Cundick, 2011
1.46 David Yonggi Cho, 2011
1.47 Jason Russell, 2012
1.48 Kong Hee, 2012
1.49 Jack Schaap, 2012
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scandals...
Of course this is hardly scratching the surface and if you want to read about what being a Christian means then you can also look here...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convicte...
Gosh, that was a relatively short list – I didn't count, but compared to the vast number of Christians in the world, I would expect to see a longer list, lol.

You should be a Christian and be faithful to God. Christians and fraudulent atheist scientists often fail; God doesn't.

Here's a list of an un-famous atheist hypocrite:

Khatru

(known for lying byt attending funerals “out of respect”, but having no respect – just likes to sit in the funeral and think of worms burrowing in and out of dead relatives eye sockets.)

Start doing better, Khatru – get spiritual, pray today to your moon and science god, LMAO.

Get up off your rump and go to your church. Take your checkbook.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6137
Nov 18, 2012
 
Okay, atheists, get ready to pay more taxes for being godless........

Bryan Fisher, of the American Family Association, had this to say during his radio show:

“Because after all, Obamacare is all about improving the health of the American people,” the radio host explained.“We know that going to church is good for you, it’s good for your health. So we are going to mandate that you go to church for your own health and we are going to tax the atheists who don’t go to church.”
http://www.examiner.com/article/christian-lea...

[hahaha – atheists – get that checkbook out - your new tax starts January, 2013]

[funny]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6138
Nov 18, 2012
 
waddayaknow, a church going atheist:
http://orelsewhat.blogspot.com/2011/01/regard...

[Takes all kinds, I guess.]

[No telling how many atheist hypocrites there are in churches.]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6140
Nov 18, 2012
 
“Atheists are just as ethical and have as strong a moral compass as churchgoers, new research shows.”

[Like their “smut 4 smut” campaign?- Does that reflect their “strong moral compass”?]

“People who have no religion know right from wrong just as well as regular worshippers, according to the study.

The team behind the research found that most religions were similar and had a moral code which helped to organise society.

But people who did not have a religious background still appeared to have intuitive judgments of right and wrong in common with believers, according to the findings, published in the journal Trends in Cognitive Sciences.

Dr Marc Hauser, from Harvard University, one of the co-authors of the research, said that he and his colleagues were interested in the roots of religion and morality.“
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/7189188/At...

[Ummmm – this would be the same Marc Hauser who was guilty of scientific fraud and made news big-time for it. What would he know about right and wrong?- I'm sure he knows a lot about WRONG....LMAO]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6141
Nov 18, 2012
 
From an atheist webpage:

A church service for atheists?

Really!?

Here in my home own state of Oklahoma, that’s the basis for a religion story in today’s Tulsa World. The headline grabs readers’ attention this way:

All souls welcome at church’s morning service for atheists

OK, I’m curious.

The top of the story:

Why would atheists go to church?[To practice their religion, of course – DUH....]

Wouldn’t that be like someone going to a movie theater, staring at a blank screen for an hour, and then going home?

Not at all, says the Rev. Marlin Lavanhar, who this fall started a special service for non-theists at All Souls Unitarian Church.

“These are people who are not inspired to live their lives a certain way by ideas of God or by Scripture but who have the same human needs for community, compassion, meaning and marking the significant passages of birth, coming of age, marriage and death,” he said.

Lavanhar said the church started the humanist service in September, partly in response to the rapid growth of atheism in society.”
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/getreligion/2012...

[This is what I've been telling atheists all along - you need to get into your godless church!!!]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6142
Nov 18, 2012
 
Atheists need to stop being so narrow minded, per this:

“If atheists are critical of religion, does it really ban them from attendance of services and brand them as hypocrites when they do attend? For me it would be a sign of broad mindedness, to attend religious services, even when you are critical of it, or in spite of being critical of it. I see hypocricy as practising something different than what you are preaching. However, even when you preach something, you may wish to investigate what you are preaching, you may be concerned about your family or society, you may be under social pressure. You may happen to like the minister as well as his sermons and find personal value through attendance of the minister's sermons. Maybe being called a hypocrite could be unfair, as well as limiting? What do you think?

For example, if you do not agree with the politics of a right-wing organization, would that then make you a hypocrite to go to a gathering of that organization and listen to what its leaders have to say? Or would it make you broad minded to have enough of an open mind to investigate what they are talking about?”
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-110957.html

[Hey, atheists - are you hypocrites? Of course, lol.....now get busy practicing those Christmas carols!!!]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6143
Nov 18, 2012
 
REF: My post 6140 - in follow up: Found the dope on Marc Hauser in my archives:

Marc Hauser [2010]
Earlier this month, the Boston Globe reported that Hauser, 50, the author of Moral minds: How nature designed a universal sense of right and wrong, a noted researcher in the roots of animal cognition, had been placed on leave following accusations by his students that he had purposely fabricated data in his research. His work relied on observing responses by tamarin monkeys to stimuli such as changes in sound patterns, claiming they possessed thinking skills often viewed as unique to humans and apes.
In a letter sent to Harvard faculty today, dean Michael Smith confirms a university investigation found "eight instances of scientific misconduct" by Hauser. A research paper has been retracted as a result of the finding, another corrected, and a Science paper has a correction under discussion; "five other cases" were also investigated, according to the letter.
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/scien...
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6144
Nov 18, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, my heart just goes out to you in your struggles - I imagine being a teacher is an overwhelming effort for you, Nikki. To teach, you have to know something, lol.
Yes Derek, you certainly know me well enough to make those kinds of assumptions about me.

Wasn't there something in your holy book about not judging others?

And you call us hypocrites...

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6145
Nov 18, 2012
 
Derek just spams pasta all over the place, he doesn't think ... not sure he can think.
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6146
Nov 18, 2012
 

Judged:

1

derek4 wrote:
“Atheists are just as ethical and have as strong a moral compass as churchgoers, new research shows.”
[Like their “smut 4 smut” campaign?- Does that reflect their “strong moral compass”?]
At least nobody dies in the porn magazines.
“People who have no religion know right from wrong just as well as regular worshippers, according to the study.
The team behind the research found that most religions were similar and had a moral code which helped to organise society.
(...)
[Ummmm – this would be the same Marc Hauser who was guilty of scientific fraud and made news big-time for it. What would he know about right and wrong?- I'm sure he knows a lot about WRONG....LMAO]
You're correct in saying that all Hauser's work is suspect because he commited fraud in some cases. However since there has been an official investigation that has pointed out the different instances where Hausers conduct was inappropriate I'd say there's no reason to disregard the publications that weren't implicated.

But if you still don't think that study is credible, that's fair. How about this one:

“Love thy neighbor” is preached from many a pulpit. But new research from the University of California, Berkeley, suggests that the highly religious are less motivated by compassion when helping a stranger than are atheists, agnostics and less religious people."

http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2012/04/30/rel...

Oh, and do you hold the bible to the same high standard? Because I'm pretty sure I can find at least one instance where that book is demostrably false, which would then make the entire text suspect...
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6147
Nov 18, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
From an atheist webpage:
A church service for atheists?
So some atheists get together to celebrate births and weddings and comfort each other when a loved one passes away.

How is this news?

Just because you call something a church service (and I do think that's a poorly chosen name) doesn'y make it a religion.
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6148
Nov 18, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
Atheists need to stop being so narrow minded, per this:
“If atheists are critical of religion, does it really ban them from attendance of services and brand them as hypocrites when they do attend? For me it would be a sign of broad mindedness, to attend religious services, even when you are critical of it, or in spite of being critical of it. I see hypocricy as practising something different than what you are preaching. However, even when you preach something, you may wish to investigate what you are preaching, you may be concerned about your family or society, you may be under social pressure. You may happen to like the minister as well as his sermons and find personal value through attendance of the minister's sermons. Maybe being called a hypocrite could be unfair, as well as limiting? What do you think?
I have attended several religious services in my life, of different religions no less. Tell me, do you often broaden your mind by sitting in a synagogue, mosque or maybe even a lecture hall?

I suppose I could 'broaden my mind' and go to church on Sunday and I could 'broaden my mind' by listening to the teachings of sharia4belgium, but I think I'll pass and watch daytime television instead. On the whole it's both more entertaining and less damaging to my mental functions.
For example, if you do not agree with the politics of a right-wing organization, would that then make you a hypocrite to go to a gathering of that organization and listen to what its leaders have to say? Or would it make you broad minded to have enough of an open mind to investigate what they are talking about?”
http://www.frihost.com/forums/vt-110957.html
I suppose that would depend on the political party. I wouldn't say visiting racists and neonazis is particularly enlightening for example. Likewise I wouldn't want to spend my time listening to childmolesters that think it's perfectly ok to let women die as long as nobody touches the fetus.
[Hey, atheists - are you hypocrites? Of course, lol.....now get busy practicing those Christmas carols!!!]
There are secular Christmas carols you know...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6149
Nov 18, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

1

derek4 wrote:
“Atheists are just as ethical and have as strong a moral compass as churchgoers, new research shows.”“People who have no religion know right from wrong just as well as regular worshippers, according to the study."
I find those comments offensive. Christian ethics don't hold a candle to humanist ethics.
derek4 wrote:
[Like their “smut 4 smut” campaign?- Does that reflect their “strong moral compass”?]
Yes. It is a VERY moral thing to do. Pictures of beautiful women professionally photographed make the world a slightly better place. Bibles degrade it.
derek4 wrote:
people who did not have a religious background still appeared to have intuitive judgments of right and wrong in common with believers
Nonsense. I reject almost every specifically Christian value.

Turning the other cheek is for slaves. Forsaking your parents and siblings for an ism is cultic. Meekness is NOT blessed.

Merely looking at a woman with sexual desire is NOT adultery or any kind of ethical defect. Not saving and not planning for the future are NOT virtues.

Bringing a sword instead of peace is NOT admirable. Wasting 300 dinarii on oil to anoint Jesus is NOT better than using it to feed the poor.

It is NOT OK to own slaves, let alone whip them. Disparaging mankind and "the world" is NOT a moral virtue.

==========

Humanist values are far superior to that ancient, irrational and failed ethical system. From the Affirmations of Humanism:

• We deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation.

• We believe in an open and pluralistic society and that democracy is the best guarantee of protecting human rights from authoritarian elites and repressive majorities.

• We cultivate the arts of negotiation and compromise as a means of resolving differences and achieving mutual understanding.

• We are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance.

• We believe in supporting the disadvantaged and the handicapped so that they will be able to help themselves.

• We attempt to transcend divisive parochial loyalties based on race, religion, gender, nationality, creed, class, sexual orientation, or ethnicity, and strive to work together for the common good of humanity.

• We want to protect and enhance the earth, to preserve it for future generations, and to avoid inflicting needless suffering on other species.

• We respect the right to privacy. Mature adults should be allowed to fulfill their aspirations, to express their sexual preferences, to exercise reproductive freedom, to have access to comprehensive and informed health-care, and to die with dignity.

• We believe in the common moral decencies: altruism, integrity, honesty, truthfulness, responsibility. Humanist ethics is amenable to critical, rational guidance. There are normative standards that we discover together. Moral principles are tested by their consequences.

• We are deeply concerned with the moral education of our children. We want to nourish reason and compassion.

• We affirm humanism as a realistic alternative to theologies of despair and ideologies of violence and as a source of rich personal significance and genuine satisfaction in the service to others.

• We believe in optimism rather than pessimism, hope rather than despair, learning in the place of dogma, truth instead of ignorance, joy rather than guilt or sin, tolerance in the place of fear, love instead of hatred, compassion over selfishness, beauty instead of ugliness, and reason rather than blind faith or irrationality.

• We believe in the fullest realization of the best and noblest that we are capable of as human beings.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#6150
Nov 18, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
A church service for atheists?

[This is what I've been telling atheists all along - you need to get into your godless church!!!]
Bo-ring.

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

8 Users are viewing the Atheism Forum right now

Search the Atheism Forum:
Title Updated Last By Comments
Atheism requires as much faith as religion? (Jul '09) 27 min Catcher1 224,351
Our world came from nothing? 48 min NightSerf 240
20+ Questions for Theists (Apr '13) 4 hr Patrick 385
What does "Atheism" mean? 5 hr Reason Personified 10
Introducing The Universal Religion 6 hr Reason Personified 733
Atheism to Defeat Religion by 2038 (Apr '12) 11 hr DonPanic 21,400
Talking some sense into you people... 12 hr religionisillness 24
•••
•••