Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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#6095
Nov 17, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
We all know what your definition of a scientist is:
Someone who checks the Bible to see whether the data fits the world view of barbaric late Iron Age goat herders.
LOL – as usual, you guessed wrong. The definition of a scientist is someone who manufactures data to support his discoveries.

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#6097
Nov 17, 2012
 
More than 20 percent of atheist scientists are spiritual

“More than 20 percent of atheist scientists are spiritual, according to new research from Rice University. Though the general public marries spirituality and religion, the study found that spirituality is a separate idea – one that more closely aligns with scientific discovery – for "spiritual atheist" scientists. The research will be published in the June issue of Sociology of Religion. Through in-depth interviews with 275 natural and social scientists at elite universities, the Rice researchers found that 72 of the scientists said they have a spirituality that is consistent with science, although they are not formally religious. "Our results show that scientists hold religion and spirituality as being qualitatively different kinds of constructs," said Elaine Howard Ecklund, assistant professor of sociology at Rice and lead author of the study. "These spiritual atheist scientists are seeking a core sense of truth through spirituality -- one that is generated by and consistent with the work they do as scientists." For example, these scientists see both science and spirituality as "meaning-making without faith" and as an individual quest for meaning that can never be final. According to the research, they find spirituality congruent with science and separate from religion, because of that quest; where spirituality is open to a scientific journey, religion requires buying into an absolute "absence of empirical evidence." "There's spirituality among even the most secular scientists," Ecklund said.
http://phys.org/news/2011-05-percent-atheist-...

[Those “spiritual” atheists, lol. Smacks of the atheist religion; establishes once again the inseparable link between atheism and science.]

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#6098
Nov 17, 2012
 
This “would be” atheist acknowledges that atheism leaves him with a a spiritual “hole” in his life – which is certainly understandable!!!!

“I haven't been on here in a couple years, but I've recently felt compelled to come back. For quite awhile I considered myself pagan in some form, or at least ascribed to a belief in some higher power that I felt connected to through the natural world. Something along the lines of pantheism. Lately, however, I've found myself leaning more and more toward atheism, which has left a sort of spiritual hole in my life. I know that being atheist doesn't prevent one from having spiritual experiences, but it seems to lessen their "meaning". And I really miss feeling that things have some sort of greater meaning. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? Or on spirituality or atheism in general?”
http://wicca.com/forums/index.php...

[He says,“I know that being atheist doesn't prevent one from having spiritual experiences, but it seems to lessen their 'meaning'.”

[He asked if anyone had any thoughts on this, lol. Yes, I do: Atheism destroys the meaning of life. DUH......]

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#6099
Nov 17, 2012
 
SPIRITUAL ATHEISTS

From: The Center for Spiritual Atheism”

“As you know, traditional Theists believe in a literal "God" who supposedly created and rules the universe; while traditional Atheists reject the idea of "God" altogether.

Generally, Spiritual Atheists are people who do not believe in a literal "God" (thus the term "Atheist"), but still consider themselves to be (often deeply) "Spiritual" people.

There is no consensus among Spiritual Atheists regarding the literal existence of one's own "spirit" or a collective "spirit"; however, there is consensus that if any "spirit" does exist, it is not external to the universe and it is not "supernatural".

Spiritual Atheists believe that nothing that exists or happens violates the nature of the universe; they believe that all such things only further define the nature of the universe.

For Spiritual Atheists, being "spiritual" means (at the very least) to nurture thoughts, words, and actions that are in harmony with the idea that the entire universe is, in some way, connected; even if only by the mysterious flow of cause and effect at every scale.”
http://www.centerforabetterworld.com/Spiritua...

[Almost sounds “holy” doesn't it, lol? I wonder if they participate in the “smut 4 smut” campaigns?]

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#6100
Nov 17, 2012
 
Spiritual Atheists and Nonliteral Theists

“A gathering place for Spiritual Atheists and Nonliteral Theists around the world.”

“We don't believe in the existence of an entity external to the universe that supposedly created and rules the universe; but we are SPIRITUAL”
http://operationliberation.ning.com/

[LMAO]

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#6101
Nov 17, 2012
 
This is from Atheist Revolution, whose motto is:“Breaking free from irrational belief and opposing Christian extremism in America.”:

Atheist Spirituality

“... Can an atheist be a spiritual person?

Absolutely. If we think of something like trait spirituality as ranging on a continuum from low to high, atheists can score at any point along the continuum just like anyone else. High scores would indicate someone who seeks spiritual experiences or who experiences the various components of spirituality, depending on how the measure functions.

Practically, we might see a spiritual atheist as highly empathic, aware of his or her connection to others, concerned with equality and social justice, regularly awed by the beauty of nature, etc. Such descriptors apply in varying degrees to all persons, theist and atheist alike.

Take something simpler, such as the need for meaning, and think about some of your friends. Some are probably deeper than others in the sense that they enjoy thought-provoking questions even more than the answers. They are about the journey and find great pleasure in learning, debate, and self-exploration. Others are more concrete, less concerned with inner exploration about more concerned with action. They have little interest in reflection and want answers on which they can rely. They may have little tolerance for ambiguity or uncertainty.

Do atheists need spirituality?

I think this question needs to be reframed in order to be meaningful. Think of it this way: atheists (like everyone else) vary in terms of their need for spirituality. Spirituality is vital to some atheists, and we could appropriately label such persons as needing spirituality. For others, the need for spirituality may be low enough that it would be hard to recognize it as such.

In all honesty, I am not sure where I would fall along this continuum. I tend not to think of myself as "spiritual," but I certainly find great meaning and purpose in experiences that others describe as spiritual. I have had many intense spiritual experiences in which I experienced connectedness, transcendence, and the like, and not all were drug-induced. I suppose I am a fairly spiritual person in many ways, but one who prefers to think of himself in terms of components such as empathy, meaning, and connection rather than "spirituality." Does that make any sense?

[NOTHING HE SAYS MAKES ANY SENSE, LOL.]

Should the secular community increase our focus on spirituality?

Probably. I suspect that very little is known about the importance and role of spirituality among nonbelievers, and the scientist in me thinks that improved understanding might be beneficial. To neglect something we do not understand well simply because we lack understanding makes little sense. We know that spirituality is important to a great many people regardless of their religious belief, and I think there is a large potential benefit from better understanding its role in our community. Discussing and potentially embracing an explicitly secular form of spirituality could make it easier for believers to imagine life without belief and could make our community more attractive for those who have come to doubt their faith.
http://www.atheistrev.com/2008/01/atheist-spi...

[Note where he says,“ the scientist in me thinks that improved understanding might be beneficial”- LMAO – INVARIABLY, that word “science” or scientist” pops up into almost everything atheists write about their opinions, yet they try to say atheism and science are unrelated.]

[So can an atheist be spritual? The answer is yes. Atheists are spiritual, religious people. They worship their science god.]
Nikki

Haacht, Belgium

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#6102
Nov 17, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
[So can an atheist be spritual? The answer is yes. Atheists are spiritual, religious people. They worship their science god.]
tl;dr : but I'm pretty sure the whole copy paste thing boils down to your last three sentences any way.

Let's clear some stuff up, shall we?

Science =/= god

Spirituality =/= religion

And although some atheist may be scientists, not all atheists are scientists and not all scientists are atheists.

Am I going slowly enough for you to keep up? Cause I know you people seem to miraculously lose the ability to read English when people say these kinds of things...

Now, as strange as it may seem to christians, who pretty much all have to follow the same rules written in the same book (and are really pretty bad at that) atheists are a pretty diverse group of people. We really only have one thing in common: we don't believe in any gods.

That's it.

So it's perfectly possible there are atheists out there that believe their chakras are connected to the earth's magnetic core and get recharged by running around naked in a field of daisies every other full moon.

Here's a shocking fact for you: unless they start to broadcast it on television, teach it to kids at school or try to make me strip down and join them I honestly don't care.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#6103
Nov 17, 2012
 

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Good call! Totally needy emo sums her up pretty well. Maybe emogit :)
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
O holy. O so very holy!
That's pretty needy. How about "emoanomaly" for the name.

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#6104
Nov 17, 2012
 

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Yes well said. Religion is circling the drain and they know it. That's why they are here spamming our threads. We terrify them. The future is coming whether they like it or not.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It's a great time to be alive. From Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.:
"I've been to the mountaintop ... I've looked over. And I've seen the Promised Land. I may not get there with you. But I want you to know tonight, that we, as a people, will get to the Promised Land."
Likewise, we might or might not live to see their god's name scraped off of the money and expelled from the Pledge, but we can see it from this vantage point. Good riddance to the scary chicken god.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#6105
Nov 17, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
You know, it's okay for you to get real spiritual at Christmas.
I'm spiritual all year. For a Christian, getting spiritual one day a year means spiking the eggnog.
derek4 wrote:
Got your Christmas tree yet? What do you put on the top of it – a smiling picture of Darwin, lol?
We put up the reason for the season just like everybody else – Santa Claus.

Dude. The Vikings stole your holiday from you and made a mockery of it. Here’s Santa about to steal your baby godlet from its crib now. Look out, baby Jesus! He looks like an alcoholic!
http://www.galesgifts.com/images/_products/ga...

It's winter solstice, and the entire house is decorated in honor of the Viking Ice Giant gods, including flocking, tinsel, Yule logs, Yule wreathes, mistletoe, poinsettias and Christmas lights, just like in Bethlehem.

And on the lawn we have sleighs, reindeer, Frosty the Snowman and the elves gathering around Santa’s workshop under the North Star, just like on the first Noel. It's a glorious sight to behold.

Then we sing songs about Jingle Bells in the snow, and about Rudolph. Rudolph is a Viking name like Santa Klaus, and like Donner and Blitzen - thunder and lightning in German.

Thor is a Great God. http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v249/Mock26... [Image of Thor with caption, "My god has a hammer, your god was nailed to a cross. Any questions"]

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#6106
Nov 17, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, they're a hoot. I'm surprised you want to plough through that much material – I know I don't. If I'm going to read something, it will be something I research and find of interest, not the rant of some godless atheist religionist.
You probably wouldn't like my posts very much. They're pretty anti-religionist, and they pretty consistently make a fool of you.

And godless is evolved. It's mo' bettah than being superstitious.

As for research, you just copy-and-paste. There is no evidence that you even understand those posts.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

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#6107
Nov 17, 2012
 

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derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yeah, they're a hoot. I'm surprised you want to plough through that much material – I know I don't. If I'm going to read something, it will be something I research and find of interest, not the rant of some godless atheist religionist.
Except that you don't actually research anything, you cut and paste other people's work. Stop trying to claim credit for yourself when you haven't earned it.

Of course all you're here to do is shout and run.

Why? Because IANS tears you apart and you're too scared to stand your ground.

Are your beliefs really so weak that they can't stand up to healthy questioning?

Typical Christian coward - all mouth and no backbone.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#6108
Nov 17, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
Though the general public marries spirituality and religion, the study found that spirituality is a separate idea – one that more closely aligns with scientific discovery
Well duh.

Religion makes authentic spirituality impossible by distracting the attention away from reality to some mythical realm inhabited by mythical gods and demons that they hope to visit in death. That's like being unconscious and in the Matrix.

I told you that you didn't understand your cut-and-paste posts.
derek4 wrote:
scientists said they have a spirituality that is consistent with science, although they are not formally religious.
That's hardly a coincidence.

Did you even read this before you recopied it?
derek4 wrote:
"Our results show that scientists hold religon and spirituality as being qualitatively different kinds of constructs," said Elaine Howard Ecklund
Once again, duh! What have I been telling you¡
derek4 wrote:
these scientists see both science and spirituality as "meaning-making without faith" and as an individual quest for meaning that can never be final. According to the research, they find spirituality congruent with science and separate from religion, because of that quest; where spirituality is open to a scientific journey, religion requires buying into an absolute "absence of empirical evidence." "There's spirituality among even the most secular scientists," Ecklund said.
http://www.youtube.com/watch... [Duuuhh!!]
derek4 wrote:
establishes once again the inseparable link between atheism and science.]
It does? It established the link between truth (science) and spirituality. I'm convinced that you're illiterate.

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Nottingham, UK

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#6109
Nov 17, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Atheist and communist Russia are great belief dictators, as I'm sure you know. Atheists bring lawsuits to have nativity scenes torn down, then run out Christmas eve and sing carols, lol. Atheists: dictators and hypocrites all at the same time.
Here's a list of famous Christian hypocrites.

All were inspired by the Bible.

1.1 Aimee Semple McPherson, 1920s–40s
1.2 Lonnie Frisbee, 1970s–1980s
1.3 Marjoe Gortner, early 1970s
1.4 Billy James Hargis, early 1970s
1.5 Neville Johnson, 1983
1.6 Jimmy Swaggart, Marvin Gorman, Jim and Tammy Bakker, 1986 and 1991
1.7 Peter Popoff, 1987
1.8 Morris Cerullo, 1990s
1.9 Mike Warnke, 1991
1.10 Robert Tilton, 1991
1.11 Melissa Scott, 1992
1.12 Jim Williams, 1994
1.13 W. V. Grant, 1996 and 2003
1.14 Bob Moorehead, 1998
1.15 Ian Bilby,1998
1.16 Roy Clements, 1999
1.17 John Paulk, 2000
1.18 Frank Houston, 2000
1.19 Roberts Liardon, 2001
1.20 Pat Mesiti, 2001
1.21 Paul Crouch, 2004
1.22 Douglas Goodman, 2004
1.23 Paul Cain, 2005
1.24 Wayne Hughes, 2005
1.25 Kent Hovind, 2006
1.26 Ted Haggard, 2006
1.27 Paul Barnes, 2006
1.28 Lonnie Latham, 2006
1.29 Gilbert Deya, 2006
1.30 Earl Paulk, 2007
1.31 Coy Privette, 2007
1.32 Thomas Wesley Weeks, III, 2007
1.33 Ira Parmenter, 2007
1.34 Michael Reid, 2008
1.35 Joe Barron, 2008
1.36 Todd Bentley, 2008
1.37 Michael Guglielmucci, 2008
1.38 Ergun Caner, 2010
1.39 George Alan Rekers, 2010
1.40 Eddie L. Long, 2010
1.41 Marcus Lamb, 2010
1.42 Vaughn Reeves, 2010
1.43 Stephen Green, 2011
1.44 Albert Odulele, 2011
1.45 Allan Cundick, 2011
1.46 David Yonggi Cho, 2011
1.47 Jason Russell, 2012
1.48 Kong Hee, 2012
1.49 Jack Schaap, 2012

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scandals...

Of course this is hardly scratching the surface and if you want to read about what being a Christian means then you can also look here...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_convicte...

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#6110
Nov 17, 2012
 

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derek4 wrote:
Spiritual Atheists and Nonliteral Theists
“A gathering place for Spiritual Atheists and Nonliteral Theists around the world.”
“We don't believe in the existence of an entity external to the universe that supposedly created and rules the universe; but we are SPIRITUAL”
http://operationliberation.ning.com/
[LMAO]
You're too dumb to know that religion doesn't have a monopoly on the term "spiritual"

Here's what they say..

"A "Spiritual Atheist" is ANYONE who does not believe in the literal existence of mythical God, but still considers his/her self to be spiritual. Spiritual teacher and author Soren Sorensen has just published two riveting books that explore spirituality without mythical God."

All you're doing is taking a fuzzy word like "spiritual" and mistakenly assuming that it applies only to your superstitious mumbo jumbo.

In my case, for spiritual, read "awe":

I can be in awe of the universe, of people and of life's experiences and sometimes I look up at a might sky and feel very small indeed.

No god required.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#6111
Nov 17, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
“A gathering place for Spiritual Atheists and Nonliteral Theists around the world.”
Why mix with Christians? How about some astrologers, too?
derek4 wrote:
“We don't believe in the existence of an entity external to the universe that supposedly created and rules the universe; but we are SPIRITUAL”
We intend to take that back from you, too.

You claimed to have truth, but we showed you what truth is. It's the Big Bang and biological evolution.

You claimed moral superiority, but we taught you that stoning people to death and burning witches was not only not holy, it is immoral. Moral behavior derives from rational compassion, not bibles.

And you claim to have some kind of spiritual superiority as well, but history has put that claim to the lie. Look at the Catholic church.

We will show how that too rightly belongs to the children who love THIS world, not your Matrix world of ghosts and spirits. Belief in magical spirits has nothing to do with spirituality.

You have nothing to offer this world except division, strife, crusades, holy wars, inquisitions, witch burnings, psychological terrorism beginning in childhood, scapegoating the defenseless, organized pedophilia, prudery, fear, guilt, shame, and blame.

It's time for your church to disappear. Shoo!

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Nottingham, UK

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#6112
Nov 17, 2012
 
Nikki wrote:
<quoted text>
tl;dr : but I'm pretty sure the whole copy paste thing boils down to your last three sentences any way.
Let's clear some stuff up, shall we?
Science =/= god
Spirituality =/= religion
And although some atheist may be scientists, not all atheists are scientists and not all scientists are atheists.
Am I going slowly enough for you to keep up? Cause I know you people seem to miraculously lose the ability to read English when people say these kinds of things...
Now, as strange as it may seem to christians, who pretty much all have to follow the same rules written in the same book (and are really pretty bad at that) atheists are a pretty diverse group of people. We really only have one thing in common: we don't believe in any gods.
That's it.
So it's perfectly possible there are atheists out there that believe their chakras are connected to the earth's magnetic core and get recharged by running around naked in a field of daisies every other full moon.
Here's a shocking fact for you: unless they start to broadcast it on television, teach it to kids at school or try to make me strip down and join them I honestly don't care.
Great post, Nikki!

Nice to see you back here!

You'll find that Derek backs down when challenged. Clearly those christian cojones are very small indeed.

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#6113
Nov 17, 2012
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
You probably wouldn't like my posts very much. They're pretty anti-religionist, and they pretty consistently make a fool of you.
And godless is evolved. It's mo' bettah than being superstitious.
As for research, you just copy-and-paste. There is no evidence that you even understand those posts.
I don't think he does understand what he cuts and pastes.

His mind is primed for exploitation by others.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

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#6114
Nov 17, 2012
 
MrDesoto1 wrote:
<quoted text>
You are just a clueless, robotic spammer whose posts reflect your inablility to use science and reason, much less any kind of research. You are also reflective of the premise of the orignnal post of this thread: "Don't dictate beliefs....No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly." You like your other annoying, parasitic trolls have been epic failures in everything you've tried to accomplish here.
That's an insult to robots everywhere! Take that back.

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#6115
Nov 17, 2012
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Why mix with Christians? How about some astrologers, too?
<quoted text>
We intend to take that back from you, too.
You claimed to have truth, but we showed you what truth is. It's the Big Bang and biological evolution.
You claimed moral superiority, but we taught you that stoning people to death and burning witches was not only not holy, it is immoral. Moral behavior derives from rational compassion, not bibles.
And you claim to have some kind of spiritual superiority as well, but history has put that claim to the lie. Look at the Catholic church.
We will show how that too rightly belongs to the children who love THIS world, not your Matrix world of ghosts and spirits. Belief in magical spirits has nothing to do with spirituality.
You have nothing to offer this world except division, strife, crusades, holy wars, inquisitions, witch burnings, psychological terrorism beginning in childhood, scapegoating the defenseless, organized pedophilia, prudery, fear, guilt, shame, and blame.
It's time for your church to disappear. Shoo!
You're absolutely right.

By his own admission, Derek sees nothing wrong with genocide.

What kind of knots and contortions has Dereks mind been twisted to for him to have such a warped view?

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