Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 Full story: The Star Press 11,175

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Full Story

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5904 Nov 14, 2012
What does this Canadian atheist say about “atheism plus”?

Atheist: Plus or Minus

“So, I got asked yesterday, what I think of the new Atheism+ thing that seems to be making the rounds. For those not in the know, PZ is playing traffic cop, shuttling us in the right…. or should I say left?… direction. Heheh, ok, shoot me, I couldn’t resist.”

I don’t know, I guess I don’t have any problem with it, same old story really. Atheism post-911 has surged and has had an evangelical period…”[continued below]

[Note his term:“evangelical”, lol - smacks of atheist religion.]

“...but now that we have reached a critical mass, and some believe we must separate the wheat from the chaff. Thankfully, unlike our more religious analogs, there doesn’t seem to be any calls to burn the heretics. In the atheist blogosphere, heresy simply results in… the more civilized and rational: namecalling and flamewars.

I’m not much for labels, I think if you start embracing a label too much it’s a sign you have stopped thinking critically. I picked atheist, because it was descriptive and a well known word. It’s not like religious people generally use it the same way I do, but it certainly sparks conversation. I remember when I first got involved in the community, secular people were telling me that atheism was a negative word, and so many gravitated towards the ‘more positive’(secular) Humanism.

Since many of those people were politically much more left wing than me, I was happy to stick with atheism.

I also found the term ‘skeptic’ useful, but it has just as many problems. Within the community, when I call myself a skeptic, I often get strange looks when I start talking about Descartes and Hume. I’m a philosophical skeptic (classical), whereas many of the people I met in the secular community were scientific skeptics, who had very little time for ‘mere philosophy’.

So, I’m a politically moderate, skeptical atheist. I think that is enough for me. What I find ironic about this new Atheism+, the New New Atheism, is that it is essentially about tossing out the heretics, creating a Nicene creed, a new orthodoxy, which attacks the diversity of the community and barricades people behind ideological walls.
http://canadianatheist.com/2012/08/24/atheist...

[Interesting how so many terms with religious implications are mingled in when he writes about these “very special” atheist plus nuts – terms like “heretics”,“orthodoxy”, so on... blah, blah, blah. Yes, atheism is taking on a whole new meaning in religion. The atheist religion.]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5905 Nov 14, 2012
What does this atheist have to say about atheism “plus”?

[He's against it – lol – atheists fighting with atheists......love it.]

“First, I do not care much about atheism. I am an atheist, and in my opposition to anti-atheist bigotry I make it clear that this ethics blog has an atheist author. However, my concern is almost exclusively with ethics - not atheism. As many atheists themselves often report, atheism has no - zero - moral implications.”

[Then we go down to the comments section and see all the atheists bickering among themselves; ranting against the author. Truly a disorganized and self-destructive group. LOL. It's entertaining to read.]
http://atheistethicist.blogspot.com/2012/08/a...

[Got any so called atheist “plusers” in the forum? Care to admit it, if you are? Naaaahhhh - from what I've seen of atheists in this forum, they're too lazy to follow this social platform:
“Atheists PLUS we care about social justice,
Atheists PLUS we support women’s rights,
Atheists PLUS we protest racism,
Atheists PLUS we fight homophobia and transphobia,
Atheists PLUS we use critical thinking and skepticism."]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5906 Nov 14, 2012
Atheists don't agree on much of anything, except to use lots of filth in their communications. What does this “brilliant”(lol) female atheist have to say about atheism “plus”?
http://musingsbysoggymog.blogspot.com/2012/10...

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#5907 Nov 14, 2012
derek4 wrote:
From Urban Dictionary
Atheism Plus
(1)“A bunch of frauds. Despite having atheist in its name it really isn't atheism at all. Their goal is to subvert atheism with the religion of feminist indoctrination and bitch about non existent misogyny.
To these people any legitimate questioning of feminists and female privilege is grounds for calling anyone a misogynist. Atheism Plus is really nothing more then an attempt at co-opting the meaning of atheism.
Atheism Plus is nothing more than dogmatic feminists trying to commandeer the atheist movement. This will set back Atheism for decades if these usurpers gain popularity.”
(2) Atheism Plus designates spaces, persons, and groups dedicated to promoting social justice along with skepticism and critical thinking, and countering misogyny, racism, homophobia/biphobia/transphobi a, ableism and other such bigotry inside and outside of the atheist community.
Atheism as such includes none of those ideas, being merely a lack of belief in gods; Atheism Plus is essentially an answer to the "now what" question that focuses on treating prejudice as woo.
"We are...
Atheists PLUS we care about social justice,
Atheists PLUS we support women’s rights,
Atheists PLUS we protest racism,
Atheists PLUS we fight homophobia and transphobia,
Atheists PLUS we use critical thinking and skepticism."
"It’s time for a new wave of atheism ... that cares about how religion affects everyone and that applies skepticism to everything, including social issues like sexism, racism, politics, poverty, and crime.”
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php...
[An atheist movement that turned into dead meat, lol? There are no atheist pluses, just minuses. When you live as an atheist, you have a very negative life – you are in a state of negativity – you are “con” everything, you live in an isolated world of believing in nothing, being FOR nothing, and being a “nothing”. This has a very negative impact on your outlook, and a very negative impact on your health. One good example of that negativity is a regular poster in this forum who thinks of worms burrowing in and out of her (his) dead relative's eyes and calls that “respect”.... the negative / psychopathic “respect”, of atheists, lol.]
Resorting to Urban dictionary?!

Wow!

Your desperation is exceeded only by your ignorance.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5908 Nov 14, 2012
From The Washington Post:

Christian charity its own campaign against atheism

“Atheist actor and writer Ricky Gervais is working on a new show, Afterlife , which features 'an atheist who dies and goes to heaven.' If Gervais hopes to bring cultural acceptance of non-belief to mainstream America, he faces an uphill battle. Polls show that many Americans distrust atheists and nearly half say they would not vote for one.”

[American sentiment against the repulsiveness of atheists is growing.]

continued:

“... what truly distinguishes atheists from religious people has to do with charitable work. Sure, plenty of atheists donate time and money to charities and there are probably many working at big charitable organizations. But, atheists do not organize together to build hospitals and schools in the developing world. There is no atheist equivalent of Samaritan’s Purse, Operation Blessing or Catholic Charities and we do not see atheist organizations providing relief when disaster strikes.

Why are atheists not doing this work? It has nothing to do with a lack of available resources. There are two main reasons and both greatly hamper an aspiring atheist politician. First, atheists do not have a God-given responsibility to help those in need. Religious people are required to do charity. The basic human rights that the free world has adopted as universal stem from Scripture.”

continued:

Second, atheists believe that humans are animals rather than specifically created by God to have dominion over the earth. If you truly believe there is no God and accept the evolutionary theory, mankind descend meaninglessly from the same random molecules as plants. Why spend resources on human-animals who will not survive natural selection without assistance when they are no more important than a tree or a chicken?

[Atheists believe humans are animals, and live like animals. They are devoid of human feelings.]

Organized atheism only exists to promote a single belief. Religious organizations promote a single belief and an important worldview including the duty to help the poor and persecuted even if they do not share our religious belief or happen to be atheists themselves.

Who would you rather vote for?”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/on-faith/...

[When there are national disasters, the news shows the Red Cross and Salvation Army helping, while atheists are nowhere to be found. That's because they are busy in forums writing comedy posts about worms crawling in and out of their dead relatives' eye sockets.]

[Oh, yes, and I meant to remind you atheists - don't forget to leave a donation at the churches where you go to sing Christmas carols this year.]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5909 Nov 14, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Resorting to Urban dictionary?!
Wow!
Your desperation is exceeded only by your ignorance.
Nope, I picked it at random. Provide your own dictionary source for atheism plus, and I'll accept it as well. Show us your vast bank of intelligence (lol) and make a post that's meaningful, since your comment above is invalid, says nothing, and has been rejected. Do your research. Learn about your atheist religion. Make us PROUD of you, lol. Or don't do it - and prove to us you have no value, which we already know anyway.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5910 Nov 14, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Resorting to Urban dictionary?!
Wow!
Your desperation is exceeded only by your ignorance.
Explain what "atheism plus" means to you. You will be our star (dead rotting tree) expert of the day.

In the meantime, I won't hold my breath waiting for any gems of wisdom coming from you, lol.
Adam

Stoke-on-trent, UK

#5911 Nov 14, 2012
Derek, instead of these attempted attacks on Atheism.

Why not tell us about your own beliefs. Which denomination you are in, and why you became a christian.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#5912 Nov 14, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>Nope, I picked it at random. Provide your own dictionary source for atheism plus, and I'll accept it as well. Show us your vast bank of intelligence (lol) and make a post that's meaningful, since your comment above is invalid, says nothing, and has been rejected. Do your research. Learn about your atheist religion. Make us PROUD of you, lol. Or don't do it - and prove to us you have no value, which we already know anyway.
Never heard of "atheist plus".

Don't much care about it, or your opinion of me.

“Reason's Greetings!”

Since: Feb 11

Pale Blue Dot

#5913 Nov 14, 2012
Adam wrote:
Derek, instead of these attempted attacks on Atheism.
Why not tell us about your own beliefs. Which denomination you are in, and why you became a christian.
Don't hold your breath. He only knows how to spam.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#5914 Nov 14, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I imagine your family looks forward to your funeral. They will send each other party invitations.
I can see right through you and your sense of what constitutes good ethics.

After all, you're the whackjob who thinks that a father who plots to have his son killed is worthy of love and respect.

So you see, your phoney ethics belie your outward appearance of affront.

You're a dummy - just like all Christians.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#5915 Nov 14, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Resorting to Urban dictionary?!
Wow!
Your desperation is exceeded only by your ignorance.
He's desperate alright.

He knows that the rotting corpse of his religion is rapidly decaying and it scares him a lot.

Mind you, I guess it doesn't scare him as much as his imaginary god does: The Bible tells its readers to fear the god of the old and new testaments.

It works on the gullible and ignorant who are quite clearly, terrified of their god.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#5916 Nov 14, 2012
Adam wrote:
Derek, instead of these attempted attacks on Atheism.
Why not tell us about your own beliefs. Which denomination you are in, and why you became a christian.
I can tell you why he became a Christiam - that one's easy.

Quite simply, it's because he was born into a culture, society that was predominantly Christian.

If Derek had been born in Saudi Arabia, he'd be quoting from the Quran, raging at people who draw cartoons of Mohammed and checking his scriptures to see what hand the supreme creator being wants him to wipe his arse with.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#5917 Nov 14, 2012
Naturally if he had been born in the Middle East he'd be strapping a bomb to his chest and running into a daycare.
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
I can tell you why he became a Christiam - that one's easy.
Quite simply, it's because he was born into a culture, society that was predominantly Christian.
If Derek had been born in Saudi Arabia, he'd be quoting from the Quran, raging at people who draw cartoons of Mohammed and checking his scriptures to see what hand the supreme creator being wants him to wipe his arse with.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5918 Nov 14, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Me specifically or in general?
Generally speaking one can reflect on how one comes to know anything about anything and follow the same pattern to know if there is a god. If all truth really is divine, it really shouldn't be that hard to figure out. If God wants us to be "saved" and if he wants us to know about him, you would think it shouldn't be that hard to know if he is there.
On this matter, I think that a lot of people over complicate seeking a knowledge of a god with their own "flash bang" experiences that may stir up a great deal of zeal among believers, but provide little insight or direction for those who may be seeking for such a knowledge for themselves.
So, how do you know there is a god? Well, its pretty much the same way you figure out most other subject matters. You do some research, find a trusted teacher or mentor (some one who is knowledgeable in the area), do your best to learn about it, and then try to apply your new found knowledge.
Below is an explanatory section for each step:
1. Research: If you want to learn about a god, go to the source material, read it, analyze it in its entirety, and ask questions.
2. Find a trusted teacher or mentor (some one knowledgeable in the area): You aren't going to go to a Ford dealership to ask about a Honda's reliability, warranty information, and pricing are you? Ask someone who is very knowledgeable in the field in which you are questions. Ask for their advice, check your understanding of the research you have completed, and don't be afraid to question your chosen expert's opinions.
3. Do your best to learn about it: If you really want to learn if there is a god and you are considering some lifestyle changes REALLY do your homework on it before you commit in either direction. See what people have to say on both sides of the fence, attend a church a few times to get a feeling for the culture, expectations and doctrine, look at the history, and consider the implications of implementing a new lifestyle. Don't just look at the specifications on paper, go out and audit the tangible benefits of a belief in God.
4. Apply your knowledge: Once you have done your research, talked to experts about it, and you have done your best to learn about it, apply it and see if you like the results. This is the "test drive" phase of believing in a god. For many people this means "living like you believe" for a time even though you may not buy into it. During this phase many people:
1. Read scripture daily
2. Pray several times a day to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ
3. Attend church weekly and ask lots of questions
4. Change their lifestyle and try living the way they think God would want them to.
5. Avoid substances that can cloud judgement during this crucial period in their lives.
Those who take these steps can find out for themselves if there is a God.
Like I said, its similar to learning about just about any other thing in life. If you'd like I can provide a secular parallel example to demonstrate.
So, you have to buy their junk before you can see their magic.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5919 Nov 14, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We do have his words on this forum, thats pretty good proof for me. I don't know where else those words could be coming from. When you question whether some one exists when you have their words in front of you, you bring upon yourself the burden of explaining where those words did come from.
For example: Some one claiming that there is "no God" or that the God of Abraham and Isaac does not exist brings upon themselves the burden of explaining the origin of the words found in scripture, the burden of disproving the numerous eye witness accounts compiled in scripture, and the burden of discrediting the integrity of the people who recorded the scripture.
Given that all of the people who wrote scripture are presently unavailable for cross examination or questioning, adequately shouldering that burden of proof described above is nearly impossible.:)
That's like saying that Romeo and Juliet wasn't written by Shakespeare.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5920 Nov 14, 2012
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>
Never heard of "atheist plus".
Don't much care about it, or your opinion of me.
There are many things you haven't heard of because you make no effort to become an informed person. It's that dead tree mentality of yours you like to talk about. You like to type one line comments on subjects you know nothing about. Thank you for being honest enough to admit that to the forum.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#5921 Nov 14, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
Who is jehobah?
jebus' baby daddy.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
Why all this slang?


It indicates the proper degree of respect.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
It kinda discredits those who use that inaccurate terminology.


Really? I thought that it was the ones who took it seriously that were discredited.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
I didn't know Jehovah had a son.


Yeah. They killed him, too.
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
Which faith believes that Jehovah had a son?
Christians.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5922 Nov 14, 2012
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
I can see right through you and your sense of what constitutes good ethics.
After all, you're the whackjob who thinks that a father who plots to have his son killed is worthy of love and respect.
So you see, your phoney ethics belie your outward appearance of affront.
You're a dummy - just like all Christians.
Your family is counting the days until they can party. They will sing a worm song for you out of respect.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#5923 Nov 14, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
How do you know that God has a body?
Jebus sits on his right hand.

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