Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 Full story: The Star Press 11,175

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

Full Story

Since: Nov 11

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#5884 Nov 13, 2012
“We show not only that atheists are less accepted than other marginalized groups but also that attitudes toward them have not exhibited the marked increase in acceptance that has
characterized views of other racial and religious minorities over the past forty years....
Americans are less accepting of atheists than of any of the other groups we asked about, and
by a wide margin.”
University of Minnesota study of atheists
http://www.google.com/url...

[“by a wide margin”- ATHEISTS not acceptable.....]

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5885 Nov 13, 2012
More visible but limited in its popularity: atheism (and atheists) in Finland

“This paper argues that atheism has become more visible in Finland, but it is a relatively unpopular identity position. The relatively low popularity of atheism is partly explained by the connection between Lutheranism and Finnishness. In public discourse atheism has been historically connected to communism and the Soviet Union (and, therefore, anti-Finnishness). However, atheism has slowly changed from being the other of Finnishness to one alternative identity among many, although it has not become extremely popular.”
http://ojs.abo.fi/index.php/ar/article/viewAr...

[“... atheism has been historically connected to communism and the Soviet Union”]

[The atheists can't dictate their religion in Finland, lol.]

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#5886 Nov 13, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have seen no proof that you exist.
One more reason, then, for you to never ever try to communicate with me.

“Reason's Greetings!”

Since: Feb 11

Pale Blue Dot

#5887 Nov 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Some people define intelligence as the value of light and truth. We can not have truth unless we obtain it by seeking after it. Truth can be sought and found as we ask questions; questions about ourselves, about others' assertions, and about god.
Would you rather I try to impose my belief system on you while making dozens of incorrect assumptions about what you believe? I don't like monologues and lectures, I like discussions. Thats why I came to the forum to talk with ya'll.
Talk to derek4 then, and ask all those questions.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5888 Nov 13, 2012
“The First Atheist Church of True Science”(“FACTS”)- more info here:

A key religious ritual at FACTS is taking a pause at each new moon. During that interval, we reflect on both the majesty of the universe, and the direction of our lives.

The moon has been chosen to remind us of how similar is every human ... each person seeing the same lunar phase no matter where on Earth ree is situated. The "new moon" has been chosen because of its symbolic nature: reminding us that new experiences always arise as old ones conclude. And the night sky has been chosen because of the perspective it provides, reminding us of our place within the incredible expanse of both distance and time.
http://www.factschurch.com/

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#5889 Nov 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Some people define intelligence as the value of light and truth. We can not have truth unless we obtain it by seeking after it. Truth can be sought and found as we ask questions; questions about ourselves, about others' assertions, and about god.
Would you rather I try to impose my belief system on you while making dozens of incorrect assumptions about what you believe? I don't like monologues and lectures, I like discussions. Thats why I came to the forum to talk with ya'll.
Yep, you're that guy.

I have little fear of you trying to impose your beliefs on anyone as that would require you to actually state a belief. An unlikely event...

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#5890 Nov 13, 2012
MrDesoto1 wrote:
<quoted text>
How can that be done?
Perhaps it could be logically disproven if god could be defined and then that definition of god could be reconciled against a series of evidences that suggest that such a definition of god is impossible.

For example: If the assertion that god is metaphysically everywhere is presented and is given as a definition of who god is and at the same time an authoritative document or expert on god says that god is metaphysically nowhere then we can conclude that either one or the other assertions are right, or neither of them correct and that definition of god is incorrect..

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5891 Nov 13, 2012
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
One more reason, then, for you to never ever try to communicate with me.
Suits me, lol. Whatever you are, you contacted me. Drop dead.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#5892 Nov 13, 2012
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Yep, you're that guy.
I have little fear of you trying to impose your beliefs on anyone as that would require you to actually state a belief. An unlikely event...
Would you read it if I posted a lengthy description of what I believe and be willing to talk about it?

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#5893 Nov 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Would you read it if I posted a lengthy description of what I believe and be willing to talk about it?
Another question.

Lame.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5894 Nov 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know that God has a body?
How do you know there is a god?

“Reason's Greetings!”

Since: Feb 11

Pale Blue Dot

#5895 Nov 13, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Perhaps it could be logically disproven if god could be defined and then that definition of god could be reconciled against a series of evidences that suggest that such a definition of god is impossible.
For example: If the assertion that god is metaphysically everywhere is presented and is given as a definition of who god is and at the same time an authoritative document or expert on god says that god is metaphysically nowhere then we can conclude that either one or the other assertions are right, or neither of them correct and that definition of god is incorrect..
Prove this imaginative, magical thinking called metaphysics without asking a question.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5896 Nov 13, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
You're the forum rodent, and your repulsive picture nauseates me every time I see it. Not even one of your fellow rodents would want you.
Aw, you are jealous. I didn't think I had enough courage to make someone else jealous, odd that.

“I Am No One Else”

Since: Apr 12

Seattle

#5897 Nov 13, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, he's an atheist missionary in the atheist religion. I have posted many links here confirming that atheism is a religion – there are atheist ministers, atheist sermons on line, atheist churches – even an atheist bible.
Conspiracy theory nuttery much?

That was rhetorical.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#5898 Nov 13, 2012
KittenKoder wrote:
<quoted text>
How do you know there is a god?
Me specifically or in general?

Generally speaking one can reflect on how one comes to know anything about anything and follow the same pattern to know if there is a god. If all truth really is divine, it really shouldn't be that hard to figure out. If God wants us to be "saved" and if he wants us to know about him, you would think it shouldn't be that hard to know if he is there.

On this matter, I think that a lot of people over complicate seeking a knowledge of a god with their own "flash bang" experiences that may stir up a great deal of zeal among believers, but provide little insight or direction for those who may be seeking for such a knowledge for themselves.

So, how do you know there is a god? Well, its pretty much the same way you figure out most other subject matters. You do some research, find a trusted teacher or mentor (some one who is knowledgeable in the area), do your best to learn about it, and then try to apply your new found knowledge.

Below is an explanatory section for each step:
1. Research: If you want to learn about a god, go to the source material, read it, analyze it in its entirety, and ask questions.

2. Find a trusted teacher or mentor (some one knowledgeable in the area): You aren't going to go to a Ford dealership to ask about a Honda's reliability, warranty information, and pricing are you? Ask someone who is very knowledgeable in the field in which you are questions. Ask for their advice, check your understanding of the research you have completed, and don't be afraid to question your chosen expert's opinions.

3. Do your best to learn about it: If you really want to learn if there is a god and you are considering some lifestyle changes REALLY do your homework on it before you commit in either direction. See what people have to say on both sides of the fence, attend a church a few times to get a feeling for the culture, expectations and doctrine, look at the history, and consider the implications of implementing a new lifestyle. Don't just look at the specifications on paper, go out and audit the tangible benefits of a belief in God.

4. Apply your knowledge: Once you have done your research, talked to experts about it, and you have done your best to learn about it, apply it and see if you like the results. This is the "test drive" phase of believing in a god. For many people this means "living like you believe" for a time even though you may not buy into it. During this phase many people:
1. Read scripture daily
2. Pray several times a day to God the Father in the name of Jesus Christ
3. Attend church weekly and ask lots of questions
4. Change their lifestyle and try living the way they think God would want them to.
5. Avoid substances that can cloud judgement during this crucial period in their lives.

Those who take these steps can find out for themselves if there is a God.

Like I said, its similar to learning about just about any other thing in life. If you'd like I can provide a secular parallel example to demonstrate.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#5899 Nov 13, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I have seen no proof that you exist.
We do have his words on this forum, thats pretty good proof for me. I don't know where else those words could be coming from. When you question whether some one exists when you have their words in front of you, you bring upon yourself the burden of explaining where those words did come from.

For example: Some one claiming that there is "no God" or that the God of Abraham and Isaac does not exist brings upon themselves the burden of explaining the origin of the words found in scripture, the burden of disproving the numerous eye witness accounts compiled in scripture, and the burden of discrediting the integrity of the people who recorded the scripture.

Given that all of the people who wrote scripture are presently unavailable for cross examination or questioning, adequately shouldering that burden of proof described above is nearly impossible.:)

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#5900 Nov 14, 2012
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I wish I could give you that much credit.
I don't.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#5901 Nov 14, 2012
In that case you must accept Zeus and Hercules as well.

:)
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We do have his words on this forum, thats pretty good proof for me. I don't know where else those words could be coming from. When you question whether some one exists when you have their words in front of you, you bring upon yourself the burden of explaining where those words did come from.
For example: Some one claiming that there is "no God" or that the God of Abraham and Isaac does not exist brings upon themselves the burden of explaining the origin of the words found in scripture, the burden of disproving the numerous eye witness accounts compiled in scripture, and the burden of discrediting the integrity of the people who recorded the scripture.
Given that all of the people who wrote scripture are presently unavailable for cross examination or questioning, adequately shouldering that burden of proof described above is nearly impossible.:)

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5902 Nov 14, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We do have his words on this forum, thats pretty good proof for me. I don't know where else those words could be coming from. When you question whether some one exists when you have their words in front of you, you bring upon yourself the burden of explaining where those words did come from.
For example: Some one claiming that there is "no God" or that the God of Abraham and Isaac does not exist brings upon themselves the burden of explaining the origin of the words found in scripture, the burden of disproving the numerous eye witness accounts compiled in scripture, and the burden of discrediting the integrity of the people who recorded the scripture.
Given that all of the people who wrote scripture are presently unavailable for cross examination or questioning, adequately shouldering that burden of proof described above is nearly impossible.:)
Words on a page in this forum could have been placed there by anyone, including an imposter, so nothing is proven to me.

I'm reading your posts following where you're going here.

No other comment at this time.

Since: Nov 11

Location hidden

#5903 Nov 14, 2012
From Urban Dictionary

Atheism Plus

(1)“A bunch of frauds. Despite having atheist in its name it really isn't atheism at all. Their goal is to subvert atheism with the religion of feminist indoctrination and bitch about non existent misogyny.

To these people any legitimate questioning of feminists and female privilege is grounds for calling anyone a misogynist. Atheism Plus is really nothing more then an attempt at co-opting the meaning of atheism.

Atheism Plus is nothing more than dogmatic feminists trying to commandeer the atheist movement. This will set back Atheism for decades if these usurpers gain popularity.”

(2) Atheism Plus designates spaces, persons, and groups dedicated to promoting social justice along with skepticism and critical thinking, and countering misogyny, racism, homophobia/biphobia/transphobi a, ableism and other such bigotry inside and outside of the atheist community.

Atheism as such includes none of those ideas, being merely a lack of belief in gods; Atheism Plus is essentially an answer to the "now what" question that focuses on treating prejudice as woo.

"We are...
Atheists PLUS we care about social justice,
Atheists PLUS we support women’s rights,
Atheists PLUS we protest racism,
Atheists PLUS we fight homophobia and transphobia,
Atheists PLUS we use critical thinking and skepticism."

"It’s time for a new wave of atheism ... that cares about how religion affects everyone and that applies skepticism to everything, including social issues like sexism, racism, politics, poverty, and crime.”
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php...

[An atheist movement that turned into dead meat, lol? There are no atheist pluses, just minuses. When you live as an atheist, you have a very negative life – you are in a state of negativity – you are “con” everything, you live in an isolated world of believing in nothing, being FOR nothing, and being a “nothing”. This has a very negative impact on your outlook, and a very negative impact on your health. One good example of that negativity is a regular poster in this forum who thinks of worms burrowing in and out of her (his) dead relative's eyes and calls that “respect”.... the negative / psychopathic “respect”, of atheists, lol.]

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