Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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#2904
Oct 11, 2012
 
Phil Torres’ Compendium of Internet Atheist Ignorance

“A few weeks ago Phil Torres asked me if I would review his book A Crisis of Faith, which he said would present a strong case against the existence of God. I agreed to take a look at it. I appreciate opportunities like that. I had high hopes for the book, in view of the fact that he (reportedly) did a year of graduate (?) study in philosophy at Harvard.

He divides the book into short chapters, of which I read thirteen before I realized that there he had adopted a pattern that was never going to alter. The book (as far as I got into it) is a nicely readable but painfully predictable compendium of Internet Atheist straw men, circular reasoning, red herrings, and misrepresentations of Christianity.

I was hoping to be able to say something more positive than that, but then he wasn’t really inviting it himself. He calls not only for rejection but for actual elimination of religion.

Continued:

Back to the beginning: On page 1 he distorts the definition of “faith.” Maybe he doesn’t realize he’s doing that; it is after all, the standard definition provided by people who don’t experience faith, don’t encounter faith in real people who have faith, and don’t read the definitions written by people who are actually explaining what we mean when we use the word “faith.” It is the standard Internet atheist definition, in other words:“beliefs that one accepts in the absence of facts or in the presence of facts which contradict those beliefs.”

That’s page 1. It’s a very poor beginning. Faith in God is actually a fact-based confidence or trust in him as a person, that he will be for me today and for all in the future the same God that he has been for me and many others in the past. It is trust that God will continue to be a promise-keeper, as he has done in the past. It is confidence built on an awareness of genuine love–factual awareness.

On page 4 he parrots the standard Internet Atheist meme of pulling OT verses out of context concerning punishments for homosexuality. This is the approach by which atheists tell believers what we think, and complain that we must be stupid for not thinking what we think, while ignoring the reasons we give for thinking what we actually think instead of what they tell us we think.

Continued:

On page 19 he falsely claims that religious evidence is generally (entirely?) subjective. That’s just false. It’s ignorant. Sorry, Mr. Torres, but there you go.

On page 20 he shows his ignorance of how Paul’s “revelation of Jesus Christ” was carefully and independently confirmed at the time.

On page 22 he notes the various religious views and says it’s statistically likely that any one of them must be false, therefore they’re all false. He forgets that atheistic naturalism fits into the same set of statistically testable worldview. If his argument were valid (which it isn’t) it would prove atheistic naturalism false.

On page 22 he picks on the most easily rebutted Intelligent Design claims and calls it the strongest. Ignorance on display.

On page 44 he seems to be illustrating incoherence in the concept of God: Can God create a rock so heavy he can’t lift it? The answer is that this that this is laughably easy to answer. What was Torres thinking?.

continued:I gave up reading after Chapter 13. Enough is enough.

continued:
http://www.thinkingchristian.net/2012/08/phil...

“Atheist straw men, circular reasoning, red herrings, and misrepresentations of Christianity.”

[I need to read the book too, and look for pink unicorns – I bet they're hiding in there somewhere, lol.]

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#2905
Oct 11, 2012
 
Many atheists ignorant of Christianity

Over the last few years I have encountered more atheists than I can shake a stick at.

Whether they are young atheists at the Auraria campus in downtown Denver or in an interview with a leader in Boulder, they all have one thing in common: ignorance...

...of Christian doctrine and practice.

Now, in one sense that is to be expected since poll after poll has demonstrated a widespread ignorance of Christianity among Americans as a whole--and Denver is no exception.

On the other hand, this is not to be expected since most atheists are atheists by choice. And many more likely chose atheism instead of Christianity. At the least, atheists by definition reject Christianity.

And to reject something one must have a substantial understanding of what is being rejected--else one rejects a position out of ignorance.

continued:

http://www.examiner.com/article/many-atheists...

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#2906
Oct 11, 2012
 
From:

Department of Health and Human Services

Notice is hereby given that the Office of Research Integrity (ORI) has made a
final finding of scientific misconduct in the following cases:
(click link for examples)
http://grants.nih.gov/grants/guide/notice-fil...

[Names and examples of misconduct posted above by the Department of Health and Human Services]

[Why doesn't the peer review system work? We have so many agencies today that we did not have when Darwin was with us (God rest his soul)- yet STILL there is all this misconduct. How much more during the good ole "theory" days, lol.
Amazing.]

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#2907
Oct 11, 2012
 
Los Angeles Times
Vioxx Maker Is Accused of Scientific Misconduct
December 4, 2005
“A cardiologist testifying in Merck & Co.'s federal trial in Houston over Vioxx accused the drug maker of engaging in scientific misconduct, suppressing clinical evidence and stifling medical discourse as it promoted the painkiller. Eric Topol, chairman of the cardiovascular medicine department of the Cleveland Clinic, said Vioxx could cause heart attacks anytime after a patient began taking it, and that its risks were apparent as early as 1999, when the drug was approved.”
http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/scientifi...

[I need to research how many deaths or lawsuits from health problems are attributed to Vioxx. Maybe some of you atheists who want dishonesty and misconduct brought to light can help me with that, lol.]

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#2908
Oct 11, 2012
 
Reposting an old favorite:

From: The University of California

Churchgoers may have an extra reason besides Easter to don their Sunday best. A new study by researchers in California provides more evidence that regular church attendance is linked to a longer, healthier life.

In the study, researchers from the Human Population Laboratories of the Public Health Institute and the California Department of Health Services, and from the University of California, Berkeley, found that people who attended religious services once a week had significantly lower risks of death compared with those who attended less frequently or never, even after adjusting for age, health behaviors and other risk factors. The study will be published April 4 in the International Journal of Psychiatry in Medicine.

"We found this difference even after adjusting for factors such as social connections and health behaviors, including smoking and exercising," said Doug Oman, lead author of the study and a lecturer at UC Berkeley's School of Public Health. "The fact that the risk of death by several different causes is lower for those who attend religious services every week suggests that we should look to some psychological factor for answers. Maybe frequent attendees experience a greater sense of inner peace, perhaps because they can draw upon religious coping practices to help them deal with stressful events."

continued:
http://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/news/ar...

The study was supported by grants from the National Institute of Aging, the National Heart, Lung, and Blood Institute, and the California Department of Health Services.

[And the atheists said we were wasting time in church, lol.]

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#2909
Oct 11, 2012
 
He has a creepy obsession with the elderly people in nursing homes.
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
Are you mentally ill in some way? I wasn't talking about science. I was pointing out the lunacy of someone saying "religion is not myth".
Seriously, you're messed up...

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#2910
Oct 11, 2012
 
Here's another favorite from science and religion today:

Feb 24, 2010

Health Benefit of Believing God Cares About You

A new study from chaplains George Fitchett and Patricia Murphy of the Rush University Medical Center found that clinically depressed people who believe in a personal and caring God respond better to medical treatment for their illness than do those who don’t believe in a concerned God.

As Murphy, who’s also a professor of religion, health, and human values at Rush, notes:

The positive response to medication had little to do with the feeling of hope that typically accompanies spiritual belief. It was tied specifically to the belief that a Supreme Being cared.

For people diagnosed with clinical depression, medication certainly plays an important role in reducing symptoms. But when treating persons diagnosed with depression, clinicians need to be aware of the role of religion in their patients’ lives. It is an important resource in planning their care.
http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/2010/0...

This part is so true:

“... clinically depressed people who believe in a personal and caring God respond better to medical treatment for their illness than do those who don’t believe in a concerned God.”

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#2912
Oct 11, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
He has a creepy obsession with the elderly people in nursing homes.
<quoted text>
Your lies and dishonesty is at work again.

They are warming up hell for you - I got the email today about it.

Your grandma prays for you.[She's wasting her time.]

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#2913
Oct 11, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
“You don't know what it was, but you know that it wasn't God.”
If by "God" you mean Yahweh, Jehovah-Jesus or Allah, then yes, I know that it wasn't God. And that's what really matters, isn't it?

Your god, who supposedly wants to be known and loved, who allegedly loves us, and is said to be perfect, all-knowing and all-powerful, cannot possibly exist. The fossils and nested biological hierarchies attest to that, as does the "evil" in the world.

If there are gods, they haven't presented themselves to us, meaning that all bibles are mythologies, and all earthly religions based on them fraudulent. It is not only safe to be irreligious, it is foolish not to be.

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#2914
Oct 11, 2012
 
"Whether they are young atheists at the Auraria campus in downtown Denver or in an interview with a leader in Boulder, they all have one thing in common: ignorance..."

[link provided in prior post]

[and the OLD atheist fools are the biggest fools of all, lol]

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#2915
Oct 11, 2012
 
The laughing atheist wrote:
I have met very few religious people in person who would be so naive as to try to call atheism a religion.
I have never heard a Christian say that atheism is NOT a religion, and I would guess that the same is true for you. The point is that we rarely get the opportunity to hear the Christian speak his mind on the matter.

Ask the next Christian that bad mouths evolutionary theory whether atheism is a matter of faith.
The laughing atheist wrote:
It's such an indicator of a misunderstanding of the English language, and indicates a lack of education to the point that most would be too embarrassed to even suggest it. Obviously being behind a keyboard changes all of that for some.
I don't think that these people are misinformed. Try educating one.
The laughing atheist wrote:
Our poor little Derek obviously has some real deep-seated emotional problems that keep him from having a sense of embarrassment, or even the ability to debate a subject in an intelligent manner.
Try a few more of these threads for a few months, and you'll discover that he's just a clone.
The laughing atheist wrote:
I assume that is why he ran away from you so quickly. He is obviously terrified by anyone who calls him out.
Derek's not a very bright boy. He thought that he would punish me by pledging never to answer my posts, so now I get what soccer players call free kicks. He posts, and I say whatever I like about his persona, his bible, his religion, his faith, his god, and his church without a reply. And that's a good thing.

Do you really want his responses? You've seen his replies to others, and by now can already predict as well as I can what they will be before he posts them: "atheists bad, science bad, ha-ha ROFL"

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#2916
Oct 11, 2012
 
The laughing atheist wrote:
Fourtunatly we have a constitution that pretty much keeps people like Derek, and longalier, and Rick Santorum, at bay.
Yes, I agree.

But you can't keep them from undermining American scientific competitiveness. All that takes is concentrated wealth from Christians conservatives committed to generating disinformation and piping it through the echo chamber.

If you're not familiar with that term, it refers to the think tanks and policy centers where such strategies are planned and executed, and from which come the various white papers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_paper and policy statements, like the infamous Wedge Strategy and Wedge Document of the Discovery Institute http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wedge_strategy .

These eventually become books published by Christian publishers like Regnery http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regnery_Publishi... , radio talking points, web sites like AnswersInGenesisDOTcom, and the like.

This is point where the vectors like Derek interfaces with the movement, and where they are indoctrinated to begin spreading the prepared meme. He puts that crap out on this thread by the pound.

When you see theists coming into these threads all repeating the same meme, such as "atheism is a religion," you know where it came from. When it's one you haven´'t heard before, and three Christian posters post it in two weeks, you know that another meme has just been issued down the echo chamber http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echo_chamber_%28...
The laughing atheist wrote:
Of course they have a right to babble on, but that's all. They are the fringe, and are upset because their religion is fading as education becomes better. Education is the enemy of religion, and that is why people like these two knuckle-heads try to dumb down forums like this one.
This is really about the best we get from them. Some are less hostile, but I think that you'll find that none are really interested in dialectic like you are.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

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#2917
Oct 11, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Issue was previously addressed:
If you want to worship Zeus and Mars and Athena, feel free to do so – or just keep holding on to your godless faith in science with all it's frauds and misconduct, and embrace your atheistic religion – the choice is all yours.
Not surprisingly, you misunderstood his point.

And just in case you missed it before, or are so slow that things need to be repeated to you, atheism is not a religion. Atheists are way to smart to be involved in religion.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

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#2918
Oct 11, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
Los Angeles Times
Vioxx Maker Is Accused of Scientific Misconduct
December 4, 2005
“A cardiologist testifying in Merck & Co.'s federal trial in Houston over Vioxx accused the drug maker of engaging in scientific misconduct, suppressing clinical evidence and stifling medical discourse as it promoted the painkiller. Eric Topol, chairman of the cardiovascular medicine department of the Cleveland Clinic, said Vioxx could cause heart attacks anytime after a patient began taking it, and that its risks were apparent as early as 1999, when the drug was approved.”
http://articles.latimes.com/keyword/scientifi...

[I need to research how many deaths or lawsuits from health problems are attributed to Vioxx. Maybe some of you atheists who want dishonesty and misconduct brought to light can help me with that, lol.]
I'm way ahead of you. I covered this topic myself more than once. Here are two such treatments, one from 2010, and the other from 2011 :

http://www.topix.com/forum/news/opinion/TIPK3...
http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T...

The fraud was collusion between Merck's CEOs and the FDA. As a result of this alone, I stopped trusting the FDA or prescribing drugs released after 2004. I retired form medicine a few years later.

You don't understand us at all, which is ironic in the light of this from you, which I read with amusement:
derek4 wrote:
"Many atheists ignorant of Christianity ... they all have one thing in common: ignorance ... of Christian doctrine and practice ... to reject something one must have a substantial understanding of what is being rejected--else one rejects a position out of ignorance."
How can you be so wrong so often?

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

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#2919
Oct 11, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

derek4 wrote:
Many atheists ignorant of Christianity
Over the last few years I have encountered more atheists than I can shake a stick at.
Whether they are young atheists at the Auraria campus in downtown Denver or in an interview with a leader in Boulder, they all have one thing in common: ignorance...
...of Christian doctrine and practice.
Now, in one sense that is to be expected since poll after poll has demonstrated a widespread ignorance of Christianity among Americans as a whole--and Denver is no exception.
On the other hand, this is not to be expected since most atheists are atheists by choice. And many more likely chose atheism instead of Christianity. At the least, atheists by definition reject Christianity.
And to reject something one must have a substantial understanding of what is being rejected--else one rejects a position out of ignorance.
continued:
http://www.examiner.com/article/many-atheists...
Get educated dummy...
the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, found atheists and agnostics know more basic facts about the Bible than either Protestants or Catholics.

http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/092...

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/09/2...

http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2010/...

Here is one from the examiner... http://www.examiner.com/article/survey-reveal...

Seriously, do you think you know anything about the bible? LMAO!!! Based on your posts, I forgot more about what is in that rag than you will ever know!!

This is why you are Wimp Lo!! LOL!!!

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#2920
Oct 11, 2012
 
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
Get educated dummy...
the Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life, found atheists and agnostics know more basic facts about the Bible than either Protestants or Catholics.
http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Society/2010/092...
http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2010/09/2...
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2010/...
Here is one from the examiner... http://www.examiner.com/article/survey-reveal...
Seriously, do you think you know anything about the bible? LMAO!!! Based on your posts, I forgot more about what is in that rag than you will ever know!!
This is why you are Wimp Lo!! LOL!!!
How nice to see you again, even though you lied and said you were leaving us. I knew you'd be back and rear your ugly head again.

Why I Left Atheism
“I guess the reason that I was an atheist is the same reason that many of you are believers in God if you are. That was because I had been indoctrinated in that particular persuasion. My background, the variables that were exposed to me as a child, led me very strongly in that direction. Just as many of you believe in God because your parents believe in God and because they instilled this belief in you, I also questioned, challenged, and rejected God because that was the kind of indoctrination that I received as a child. I can remember my mother saying to me as a child something like, "Do you really believe there is an old man, floating around in the sky, blasting things into existence here upon the earth? Do you really believe that crummy looking structure on the corner could be something beautiful called 'the church?' Do you really believe that there is a hole in the ground that I am going to be thrown into and burned eternally if I do not live just the way some preacher thinks I ought to?" Of course, I could not conceive of these things as a child and did not know enough to realize they are not what the Bible teaches.”
http://www.doesgodexist.org/AboutClayton/Past...

“I could not conceive of these things as a child and did not know enough to realize they are not what the Bible teaches."

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#2921
Oct 11, 2012
 
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
Not surprisingly, you misunderstood his point.
And just in case you missed it before, or are so slow that things need to be repeated to you, atheism is not a religion. Atheists are way to smart to be involved in religion.
Atheists are deeply religious and faithful to their religion. Catch up, lol!

Shocking photo of atheist god captured:

http://www.youtube.com/watch...

“If you take their god away they cry like babies.”
[No Santa Claus or pink unicorns were harmed in the making of this video.]

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#2922
Oct 11, 2012
 

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Why do atheists hate God?

Recently, I have had a lot of conversations with atheists. Many express a strong hatred of God. I have been at a loss to explain this. How can you hate someone you don’t believe in? Why the hostility? If God does not exist, shouldn’t atheists just relax and seek a good time before they become plant food? Why should it matter if people believe in God? Nothing matters if atheism is true.
http://creation.com/atheist-god-hate

“If God does not exist, shouldn’t atheists just relax and seek a good time before they become plant food?”

[SEEK A GOOD TIME? Naahhh.....they'd rather waste their time hating.]

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#2923
Oct 11, 2012
 
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
Not surprisingly, you misunderstood his point.
And just in case you missed it before, or are so slow that things need to be repeated to you, atheism is not a religion. Atheists are way to smart to be involved in religion.
Say a prayer when you do your yard work and breathe in the air God gave you. He probably won't listen, but you just never know, lol.

I'll have some more science misconduct and science fraud posts for you soon - might be tomorrow - hang in there - you know you can always count on me to post the news stories fer 'ya, lol.

I think I'll focus on bogus peer review next time. Gosh, there is a lot of material on that - I can probably harvest 3 pages in 3 minutes.

Oh, yes, and I've been meaning to tell you - "Givemeliberty" has indicated to the forum that his (or her) grandma needs some attention - head over to her house and see if a fling with the old gal will make you more cheery, lol.

LMAO

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#2924
Oct 11, 2012
 
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
Not surprisingly, you misunderstood his point.
And just in case you missed it before, or are so slow that things need to be repeated to you, atheism is not a religion. Atheists are way to smart to be involved in religion.
I understood his point. He missed my sarcasm due to his stupidity, and you did the same, lol. I am well aware he does not worship the three little gods he named off. He (and you) worship the god of atheism, and you have faith in the religion of atheism.

The Religion Of Atheism

“A person's religion is the sum total of his beliefs about God and the supernatural. Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are the three largest "monotheistic" religions, with belief one God, Creator Of The Universe.

Some religions are "polytheistic," with belief in many gods, each with different functions.

Atheism is the religion whose belief about God is that there is no God.

Some Atheists, for their own political reasons, assert that Atheism is not a religion but instead is the total absence of religion. This allows them to spread their Atheistic beliefs freely in societies which insist on "separation of church and state."

But this is like saying that "black," (which physicists define as the total absence of color) is not a color. A few years ago, the car I drove was a big, old Chevrolet, whose color was black. In common practice throughout the world, "black" is understood to be a color, despite the technical definition of the physicists. Likewise, "Atheism" is a religion, despite any technical definitions to the contrary.

If black is a color, then Atheism is a religion.”

[Poster's insert: Court rules atheism a religion
http://www.wnd.com/2005/08/31895/ ]

If Atheism is a religion, then it must be subject to the same legal restrictions imposed by governments on all other religions. In particular, in the United States, the teaching of Atheism must be prohibited wherever the teaching of Christianity is prohibited.

But where is Atheism being taught? Atheism is being taught, by default, in all places where other religions cannot be taught, particularly in the public schools.”

[Poster's insert: This means atheists are dictating their religious beliefs in our schools.]

“When the State mandates that the Theory of Evolution be taught as fact, that is establishing the religion of Atheism, because the Theory of Evolution asserts that all life forms are created not by God, but by pre-existing natural processes. This is pure Atheism! If we are not created by God, then there might as well be no God, for all the difference He makes.

The mere fact that many scientists are Atheists does not entitle them to establish Atheism as our State Religion!

When the State prohibits free discussion of God in the classroom, that is establishing the religion of Atheism. Wherever the State permits Atheistic ideas to be spread but prohibits Theistic ideas, that is establishing the religion of Atheism.

Therefore I urge you to understand clearly in your mind that Atheism is a religion, just as Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are religions. And any restrictions placed on Christianity, Judaism, or Islam must also be placed on Atheism. Atheism must not be allowed to slip through its little loophole any longer, by pretending it is not a religion.”
http://patriot.net/~bmcgin/atheismisareligion...

Atheism is a religion.

Atheism is a statement of faith in science and the theory of evolution.

Object again if you wish, and my reply the second time will be to ignore you or copy and paste all the above right back to you, since there is nothing you can say that will change the facts as I've presented them, lol.

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