Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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#2860
Oct 11, 2012
 

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Hedonist wrote:
What I wrote: "Scientists NEVER have 'faith' in science. Scientists have varying levels of confidence in the results of science in direct proportion to the preponderance of evidence available."
The reply:
<quoted text>
You apparently have a reading comprehension problem.
.
And on a separate note --
<quoted text>
"There are many hypotheses in science which are wrong. That's perfectly all right; they're the aperture to finding out what's right. Science is a self-correcting process. To be accepted, new ideas must survive the most rigorous standards of evidence and scrutiny." ~ Carl Sagan
You are just pointing out the science that doesn't survive these standards of evidence and scrutiny. BFD. That is exactly why science is NOT a "faith" based proposition but is instead a question of levels of confidence.
I really wish atheists didn't think of themselves as laboratory scientists who need to dissect prior comments and reply piecemeal. When you do that, then the next poster replies to YOUR post, it lumps together what YOU wrote in very messy way, causing what you wrote to make even less sense than it did the first time around, lol.

But if it's easier for you to only look at one thing at a time due to your one track mind, by all means, go ahead and post in the way you're most comfortable with, as long as you are aware that your style works to your own disadvantage.

You and other atheists reject Christian sources, but you quote Carl Sagan continually, as though he's your god who we are obliged to accept. I reject him for the same reasons you automatically disqualify Christian opinions. Although I may occasionally use a Christian source, I give you news links and science links --- and you give me Carl Sagan, lol.

You know, I've been wondering if all your thoughts are copy and pastes. For my last 3 posts to you, I have pointed out where you have not only copied and pasted quotes from other well known people, but you presented them without attributing credit to the authors, as though they were your own. When your hand was called on it, you said you weren't aware someone else said it.[ha – sure] Example: the one about faith and mountains, which you should recall quite well.

Have you no original ideas / opinions of your own? You aren't able to think for yourself?

Note your closing remark:“That is exactly why science is NOT a 'faith' based proposition but is instead a question of levels of confidence.”

Then read this:

“Faith: reliance, trust, belief”- Faith, the synonym of confidence:
http://thesaurus.yourdictionary.com/confidenc...

Learn more about your faith.

Learn what it means.

Learn how it is confidence.

You have faith in science, and atheism is your religion.

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#2861
Oct 11, 2012
 

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"Scientific fraud has always been with us. But as stated or suggested by some scientists, journal editors, and a few studies, the amount of scientific 'cheating' has far outpaced the expansion of science itself. According to some, the financial incentives to 'cut corners' have never been greater, resulting in record numbers of retractions from prestigious journals. From the article:'For example, the journal Nature reported that published retractions had increased tenfold over the past decade, while the number of published papers had increased by just 44 percent.”
http://science.slashdot.org/story/12/04/20/22...

“... published retractions had increased tenfold over the past decade.”

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#2862
Oct 11, 2012
 

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Question: "What is the New Atheism?"

Answer: The early 21st century has seen secularism and atheism promoted throughout the Western world with an ever-increasing vigor and militancy. This has led to the emergence of the “new atheists,” notable members of which include best-selling authors such as Sam Harris, Daniel Dennett, Richard Dawkins, and Christopher Hitchens.

The contention of the new atheists is, obviously, that there is no God. Adherents to the philosophy of new atheism believe that blind, natural forces are responsible for all of reality which we perceive. The new atheists do not restrict themselves to a passive disbelief. Rather, they are actively engaged in admonishing others to follow suit, to declare their non-belief in God, and to take the necessary steps to rid the world of religious belief and practice. As outspoken atheist Richard Dawkins puts it in The God Delusion,“I do everything in my power to warn people against faith itself.”

An ironic feature of the new atheism is its strong faith in the inferiority of having faith. The new atheists erroneously redefine "faith" as an "irrational belief in the absence of evidence." This misrepresentation of the nature of faith is absurd, for faith is not essentially a strong belief in something, but rather the ground of Christian faith is believing in someone—God. A.W. Tozer said,“Faith rests upon the character of God, not upon the demonstration of laboratory or logic.” When one has faith in the character of a person, e.g. a mother or an aircraft pilot, one no longer needs to be skeptical or require strong evidence in respect to any service that he or she renders.

When it comes to things, Christians correctly approach the subject looking for strong evidence, while accepting that some matters may be beyond our current understanding. Indeed, many faith-filled scientists have been at the cutting edge of the scientific enterprise and test the evidence using thorough methods and techniques. The new atheists believe that empirical science is the only path to understanding reality. However, this is erroneous, since the very concept of "scientism" (the view that science is the only way to gain knowledge) is not itself subject to any scientific experiment and ultimately distills to a faith. Faith, far from being an "irrational belief in the absence of evidence," is a decision to reckon as true something that is not visible. Scientism is a metaphysical concept. Thus, the new atheists require faith of some description, even if not in God. Scientism is self-refuting, and thus should not be believed. Scientism could be summed up as the belief that “empirical science is the only way to be sure about anything.” Of course, we might well then ask,“What was the scientific experiment that established that empirical science is the only way to be sure about anything?”
http://www.gotquestions.org/new-atheism.html

“ Thus, the new atheists require faith of some description, even if not in God.”

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#2864
Oct 11, 2012
 
From FOX News:

Scientists face four years in prison for failing to predict earthquake

Six Italian scientists and one government official could see four-year prison terms for manslaughter for allegedly downplaying the risk of an earthquake in the town of L'Aquila, Italy, in 2009.

According to prosecutors, the six researchers and the Department of Civil Protection downplayed the likelihood that a series of tremors that hit the city in early 2009 were foreshadowing a larger quake. On April 6, 2009, a magnitude-6.3 earthquake killed 309 city residents.

The trial, which began about a year ago, has worried scientists, who point out that earthquake prediction is not possible. But prosecutors insist that the trial is not about predicting the unpredictable, according to Nature News. During closing arguments on Monday and Tuesday (Sept. 24-25), the prosecution assistant told the courtroom that instead, The prosecution is asking for four-year prison terms for the accused.

Earthquake swarms are notoriously unreliable predictors of future quakes, say seismologists. In 1988, researchers found that about half of large quakes in seismically active areas of Italy were preceded by foreshocks, but only 2 percent of small earthquake clusters predicted a big temblor.

At the controversial March 31 meeting in L'Aquila, earth scientist Enzo Boschi, now a defendant in the case, acknowledged the uncertainty, calling a large earthquake "unlikely," but saying that the possibility could not be excluded. In a post-meeting press conference, however, Department of Civil Protection official Bernardo De Bernardinis, also a defendant, told citizens there was "no danger."

“The trial, which began about a year ago, has worried scientists, who point out that earthquake prediction is not possible.”
http://www.foxnews.com/science/2012/09/26/ita...

“... the scientists and officials had inadequately assessed the risk of a quake and given deceptive information to the public.”

[Lol - what else is new? They do it all the time.]

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#2865
Oct 11, 2012
 
From NBC News:

Renowned scientist faces 16-year prison term

Dutch scientist Marc van Roosmalen’s success at combing the Amazon for new monkey species has earned him international acclaim and recognition as one of the world’s leading biologists. Time magazine named him one of its “Heroes for the Planet.”

Now his work has earned him a more troubling distinction: a nearly 16-year prison sentence. He was jailed in June for nearly two months before a panel of judges freed him on bail Tuesday while he appeals.

Van Roosmalen was convicted of holding an Internet auction for the naming rights of two monkey species he discovered. He planned to use the proceeds to help preserve their habitats. But the court ruled the auction was illegal because van Roosmalen was working at Brazil’s National Institute for Amazon Research at the time of the discoveries and said the naming rights belonged to the government.

Van Roosmalen blames the state’s powerful logging interests and overzealous environmental regulators for orchestrating his conviction and accuses them of trying to discourage scientific investigation.

“They are criminalizing science,” van Roosmalen told The Associated Press in a telephone interview this week from the Amazon city of Manaus.

Scientists have rallied around van Roosmalen, saying the case highlights a growing conflict between scientific research and Brazil’s efforts to protect the Amazon with some of the world’s toughest environmental laws.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20219392/ns/techn...

“Scientists have rallied around van Roosmalen.”

[Yes, they stick up for their own, even when they know he's wrong. We see that a lot among atheists, who are much like fraudulent scientists in the way they think.]

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#2866
Oct 11, 2012
 

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Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Being the children of theist, they will be indoctrinated to whatever invisible magic friend mind fantasy their parents play at.
So if they are the children of atheists, they will be indoctrinated (by their parents) to the mind fantasy of evolution and godlessness. Right, but, thank God, that indoctrination doesn't always stick. Not all children follow what their godless parents taught them.

William J. Murray is the chairman of the Religious Freedom Coalition, a non-profit organization in Washington, D.C., active on issues related to aiding Christians in Islamic and Communist countries.

William Murray is the son of Madalyn Murray O'Hair,[1] a United States atheist activist who came to national attention in Baltimore, Maryland when she filed a lawsuit with the Supreme Court of the United States, claiming that compulsory prayer and reading of the Bible in public schools was unconstitutional.

Murray converted to Baptist Christianity in 1980. Learning of his conversion, his atheist mother commented: "One could call this a postnatal abortion on the part of a mother, I guess; I repudiate him entirely and completely for now and all times ... he is beyond human forgiveness." He expressed similarly negative feelings toward his mother in his first book, My Life Without God, in which he wrote: "She was just evil … She misused the trust of people. She cheated children out of their parents' inheritance." Murray also repudiated his mother after her death, saying "I used to ask people to pray for my mother's salvation. I don't do that anymore…. My mother was an evil person." He also blamed her for the death of his daughter and his half-brother, who were murdered at the same time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_J._Murra...

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#2867
Oct 11, 2012
 

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derek4 the failed Creationist trying desperately to spam his religious bullsh*t in the forums.

Prove your god or f*ck off it's been that simple since the dawn of time.

You liars are getting boring this century.

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#2868
Oct 11, 2012
 
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
There was a time when people, as their religion, worshipped Zeus and Mars and Athena and so on.
That was their religion.
According to you, religion is not a myth.
So, according to you, the ancient gods Zeus and Mars and Athena are real?
Did you and the laughable atheist come from the same momma? Your lack of common sense, and your manner of expression is about the same - and neither of you contribute anything to the forum except to make jokes of yourselves.

If you're stuck back in time, and you want to worship Zeus and Mars and Athena, feel free to do so – or just keep holding on to your godless faith in science with all it's frauds and misconduct, and embrace your atheistic religion – the choice is all yours, lol.

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#2869
Oct 11, 2012
 
-Skeptic- wrote:
derek4 the failed Creationist trying desperately to spam his religious bullsh*t in the forums.
Prove your god or f*ck off it's been that simple since the dawn of time.
You liars are getting boring this century.
What an enlightening, informative, and contributory post, lol. You have indeed made some wonderful points that would persuade the most serious Christian believer to convert to your godless religion: atheism and evolution.

I would also like to thank you for brightening our day with your cheery attitude and juvenile language.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#2870
Oct 11, 2012
 
The laughing atheist wrote:
I see why you [a Christian apologist] would want to call atheism a religion, but it simply is not a religion. Period. That's it.
They call atheism a religion, and evidence based trust "faith," in an attempt to level the playing field by demeaning them both, which is remarkable in itself.
The laughing atheist wrote:
No thinking person considers it a religion. The fact that you do, simply takes away from any credibility that you might hope to enjoy in a debate on the subject.
That ship has long since sailed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#2871
Oct 11, 2012
 
The laughing atheist wrote:
It appears that you do not like the idea that your religion is not allowed to be taught in public schools. That's too bad for you. The US Constitution is very clear on the matter, but you can always send your kids to a religious school that is not funded with taxpayer money.
The Christian church has no respect for Americanisms such as church-state separation. Their church only gives lip service to such ideas. Their first four Commandments command religious observance, and exclusively to the Christian god.

Christian philosophy is anti-American in spirit. The models of government are authoritarian: the god over man, and the man of the house over his wife and children. There is no voting in heaven, and their god doesn't take surveys or count hands.

And there are no rights or freedoms in the bible - just the right to obey or burn.

Does anybody really doubt that if the church had the power to enforce its theocratic model that it wouldn't?

Even more so, has that church ever had the authority to burn witches at the stake or impale heretics in the iron maiden and said, "No, that is cruel and barbaric. We refuse to exercise that power"? Of course not.

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#2872
Oct 11, 2012
 

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derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you and the laughable atheist come from the same momma? Your lack of common sense, and your manner of expression is about the same - and neither of you contribute anything to the forum except to make jokes of yourselves.
If you're stuck back in time, and you want to worship Zeus and Mars and Athena, feel free to do so – or just keep holding on to your godless faith in science with all it's frauds and misconduct, and embrace your atheistic religion – the choice is all yours, lol.
That wasn't the point of my post or the person I was speaking to, Spam Boy.

The wheels really come off your posts when you have to use your own words instead of cutting and pasting spam...

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#2874
Oct 11, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't backtrack to explain why I am here to the late bloomers. Nor do I owe you any explanation as to why I am here.
If, like most lazy atheists, you don't want to familiarize yourself with what's been going on to date in the forum, you can remain in the dark, or go back and catch up, or disappear off the planet, lol. The choice is all yours – I couldn't care less what you do. LMAO
What a beautiful example you are of the failure of Christian ethics in practice. You are a devout Christian, proud and fervent in your faith.

Yet, you are not half the person of any of the humanists that you post to.

Humanists have a better value system, and we embody those values better. Why don't you take a peak: http://www.secularhumanism.org/index.php... Here are a couple that spit in your god's eye:

Whereas your religion describes man as abject filth worthy of eternal torment, "we deplore efforts to denigrate human intelligence, to seek to explain the world in supernatural terms, and to look outside nature for salvation."

Whereas you pot repeatedly against the science, "we believe that scientific discovery and technology can contribute to the betterment of human life."

"We are committed to the principle of the separation of church and state."

Whereas you people scapegoat, demean, dehumanize and marginalize gays and atheists, among others, "we are concerned with securing justice and fairness in society and with eliminating discrimination and intolerance."

Just look at you. We can do better than your church. We always have.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#2875
Oct 11, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
“The Supreme Court has held that what makes a belief religious is "whether it is a sincere and meaningful belief occupying in the life of its possessor a place parallel to that filled by the God."
In Dred Scott v Sandford (1857), the US Supreme Court also affirmed that black people were only 3/5th of a person, not citizens, had no rights, and were considered property. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4h2933.html

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#2876
Oct 11, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
Most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution. Instead, 51 percent of Americans say God created humans in their present form, and another three in 10 say that while humans evolved, God guided the process. Just 15 percent say humans evolved, and that God was not involved.
Christianity is endemic in America. It makes her a laughing stock in the West.

We are fixing that. As the ARIS data I just posted attests, your church is hemorrhaging adherents and social clout in America as we speak.

And that is a good thing. Your legacy will be Christian atheophobia, homophobia, sexual constipation, guilt and shame, misanthropic self-loathing, antiscientism, crusades, inquisitions, and a history of strife, division and death.

Your church's cultural hegemony just can't die fast enough.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#2877
Oct 11, 2012
 
The laughing atheist wrote:
I have read some of your [Langoliers] posts....
Not very impressive. You apppear to be a less intelligent version of Derek(not that he would be considered intelligent by any standard). Is every believer on this thread so incompetent that they can't even hold up their end of a conversation without resorting to purposely misdefining words, and demanding proof that something does NOT exist? I see you have added an appeal to the majority, which of course is a logical fallacy.

If this is the best that the theist world has to offer, atheism should be universally accepted in no time.
Yes.

That is part of the value of this exercise. We don't teach the Dereks or Langoliers a thing. Nor do we need to be taught that they are incorrect.

But I think that most skeptics that have not spent time in an environment like this have no idea how damaging their religion really is, or the importance of diminishing its influence from public life.

Just look at the arguments of the Christians posting in this thread, and compare them with those forged from humanist values. Christian philosophy severely deforms psyches, both intellectually and morally, in direct proportion to the degree that informs the individual Christian.

You seem a little surprised by this. The regulars here are not. We are accustomed to it.

Don't we owe it posterity to help diminish this church in any way we can? I don't mean to persecute individual Christians, who are mostly victims of their church as well, but rather, to emphasize the sickness of Christian philosophy, and facilitate its rejection in best sellers, billboards, and message boards like these? Does that matter?

As I mentioned to Derek a few weeks a go, we are posting to people like him, even when we reply to his posts and address him. If Derek and I were the only two people on this thread, he would be alone. Posting to him is a waste of time. We post to one another. I am posting to you, even when I answer him. And my message is that his church is more pernicious than I think you knew.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#2878
Oct 11, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
You know, I've been wondering if all your thoughts are copy and pastes ... Have you no original ideas / opinions of your own? You aren't able to think for yourself?
Seriously? Are you really this insight-free? I haven't seen an original idea from you yet, and about 80-90% of the words that you have posted in this thread are preformatted Christian apologetics.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

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#2879
Oct 11, 2012
 

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derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
Do we throw out the Constitution because there are people who have difficulties understanding it, many of them arriving at different interpretations that must be decided by our courts?
[Being as you're in the UK, you may not know what our Constitution is – if not, ask someone and they will explain it to you.]
“What happened to Nietzsche? What went wrong? When did this all begin? The aim of this inquiry is notwhat caused Nietzsche's madness; it is when his madness began. This is a significant question for philosophy, for if his street collapse was the culmination of a serious mental illness that had been underway for even a few weeks before this event, at least one or two of his six 1888 books must have been written under the spell of madness. If this were indeed the case, the difficult question is precisely how many of these books have been infected by his illness.”
http://www.bu.edu/paideia/existenz/volumes/Vo...
Oh I know what the US constitution is.

It's something that American Christians wished their country didn't have.

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#2880
Oct 11, 2012
 
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>
That wasn't the point of my post or the person I was speaking to, Spam Boy.
The wheels really come off your posts when you have to use your own words instead of cutting and pasting spam...
You have no “points”, lmao.

You lose points each time you try to post.

You know why? Because there are no wheels turning in your pointed little head, lol.

There is nothing but a vacant space where your brain should be.

If you want to worship Zeus and Mars and Athena, feel free to do so – or just keep holding on to your godless faith in science with all it's frauds and misconduct, and embrace your atheistic religion – the choice is all yours.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

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#2882
Oct 11, 2012
 

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Langoliers wrote:
Religion is not a myth you Dolt!
Nice of you to accept that all the Hindu gods and goddesses are for real.

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