Don't dictate beliefs

Sep 5, 2012 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: The Star Press

No one else can say otherwise? That is basically saying those who do "believe in God" are better? Hardly.

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#2823
Oct 10, 2012
 
Atheism is a Religion Says US Supreme Court
December 01, 2009

“... there was a case adjudicated in 2005 in Wisconsin, Kaufman v. McCaughtry. This case involved an Atheist inmate who filed a grievance as a result of being denied to form a study group for Atheists in his prison on the grounds that his First Amendment rights were thwarted by denial to form the group by the prison authorities.

Continued:

When this atheist plaintiff’s case was presented to the lower court, it was thrown out of court because the prisoner was asking to form a group that was not based on religious beliefs, but was considered by prison officials to be a request to form a non-religious group that was considered to be an activity group. At the time of his request, the prison authorities, defendants in the case, said that no other activity groups were permitted to be formed at that time, so the denial of his request by the prison officials was considered legitimate. The plaintiff himself did not see his atheism as any more than really just an opposition to religion so there had been no violation of either his right to establish the group or to exercise any religious belief.

The atheist was still not satisfied, so he appealed the case. When the case was brought before the higher court, it was further considered, that although the prison officials did not deem atheism a religion, perhaps it should have been considered a religion because it was a group that was "religious in nature even though it expressly rejects a belief in a supreme being." The case, therefore, was finally judged by the State Supreme Court as not being in violation of free exercise because the atheist would still be able to practice his atheism whether or not he was allowed to form the group, however, his right to establishment of that group that was religious in nature was denied, and thus a violation of his First Amendment rights. This case sets precedence that atheism is considered a religion by the United States Supreme Court.

This ruling raises a lot of issues and some questions. One of the questions that immediately comes to mind is that if the Supreme Court has declared Atheism to be a religion, then why are atheistic philosophies like Darwinism, whether taught in science class or not, still an atheist philosophy, allowed to be propagated in schools without also the creationist aspect of religion also allowed in the curriculum? It seems to me that atheists are being allowed to establish and practice their religion in their secularist and humanist curriculum in our public schools without allowing either the establishment or free exercise of any other religion but their own. They seem to be able to do this because they claim theirs isn’t a religion, but the Supreme Court has declared that it is. What’s wrong with this picture?
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.action...

COMMENT:
KEY PRECEDENT WITHIN THE TEXT:“This case sets precedence that atheism is considered a religion by the United States Supreme Court.”

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#2824
Oct 10, 2012
 
The laughing atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I notice that you seem to enjoy posting about bad science, or more accurately, naughty scientists.
Why is this? Does this somehow support your position that there is a God? It seems that you feel, that if you can post a bunch of stuff about scientific fraud, that this somehow weakens the atheist position. Please correct me if I am wong. Please bear in mind that the atheist position has nothing explicitly to do with science, but rather a disbelief or lack of belief in a god. So why would your posts about scientific fraud weaken that?
I don't backtrack to explain why I am here to the late bloomers. Nor do I owe you any explanation as to why I am here.

If, like most lazy atheists, you don't want to familiarize yourself with what's been going on to date in the forum, you can remain in the dark, or go back and catch up, or disappear off the planet, lol. The choice is all yours – I couldn't care less what you do. LMAO

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#2825
Oct 10, 2012
 
“Atheism:[is] a religion”

“Atheism is the belief that there is no god. According to the Routledge Encyclopedia of Philosophy:

“Atheism is the position that affirms the non-existence of God. It proposes positive disbelief rather than mere suspension of belief.”

Buddhism is atheistic in the sense of denying that there is any overarching deity such as the Creator-God of the Bible. Atheism in the western sense excludes Buddhism, and adherents claim that it is not a religion. One Atheist said:

“Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair colour”

[Poster's insert: Above quote demonstrates the unoriginality of Hedonist's post which made the same statement, plagiarizing the author, since he linked to no source and dishonestly presented it as his own thought.]

text continues:

However, atheists make such claims so Atheism can avoid legal imperatives placed on religions in many countries, and can avoid some of the ideological hang-ups people have about “religion”. It also creates a false dichotomy between science (which they claim must be naturalistic and secular) and religion.

Atheism will be defined in the contemporary western sense: not just the lack of belief in a god, but the assertion about the non-existence of any gods, spirits, or divine or supernatural beings. Atheists in this sense are metaphysical naturalists, and as will be shown, they DO follow a religion.

Continued; (Conclusion:)

Atheists often claim that their belief is not a religion. This allows them to propagate their beliefs in settings where other religions are banned, but this should not be so.

Contemporary Western Atheism unquestionably has six of the seven dimensions of religion set forth by Smart, and the remaining dimension, ritual, has also started to develop. Thus it’s fallacious to assert,“Calling Atheism a religion is like calling bald a hair colour”. Perhaps a better analogy would be calling a shaved head a “hairstyle”. Other than the denial of the divine, there is little difference between Atheism and other worldviews typically labeled as religions.

The dichotomy that Atheists try to create between science and religion is false. The conflict is between interpretations of science coming from different religious worldviews.

Atheism shouldn’t be taught or enforced in settings where other religions are banned and shouldn’t be favoured by laws which imply a religiously neutral government.
http://creation.com/atheism-a-religion

COMMENT: THE FOLLOWING, FROM THE ABOVE TEXT, CONCLUDES THAT ATHEISM IS A RELIGION:
“Atheism will be defined in the contemporary western sense: not just the lack of belief in a god, but the assertion about the non-existence of any gods, spirits, or divine or supernatural beings. Atheists in this sense are metaphysical naturalists, and as will be shown, they DO follow a religion.”
[And they are very ardent and devout in their religion.]

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#2826
Oct 10, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>
If the god of the Bible meant for his message to be understood then the evidence suggests he's failed.
Otherwise we wouldn't have so many different Christian denominations and sects each claiming to be right at the expense of the others.
Then you have the mixed messages in the Bible itself - sure there are good things in there but it's also full of primitive barbarisms.
Nietzsche questioned the goodness of an omniscient, omnipotent god who doesn't even make sure that his creatures understand his intention. This god who allows doubts to persist for thousands of years. Nietzsche also went on to liken the god of the Bible to a deaf man making all kinds of ambiguous signs and gestures when some sort of danger is present.
Do we throw out the Constitution because there are people who have difficulties understanding it, many of them arriving at different interpretations that must be decided by our courts?

[Being as you're in the UK, you may not know what our Constitution is – if not, ask someone and they will explain it to you.]

“What happened to Nietzsche? What went wrong? When did this all begin? The aim of this inquiry is notwhat caused Nietzsche's madness; it is when his madness began. This is a significant question for philosophy, for if his street collapse was the culmination of a serious mental illness that had been underway for even a few weeks before this event, at least one or two of his six 1888 books must have been written under the spell of madness. If this were indeed the case, the difficult question is precisely how many of these books have been infected by his illness.”
http://www.bu.edu/paideia/existenz/volumes/Vo...

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#2827
Oct 10, 2012
 
Atheism is a Religion Under the Constitution

“The Supreme Court has held that what makes a belief religious is "whether it is a sincere and meaningful belief occupying in the life of its possessor a place parallel to that filled by the God." Since most of us live for something or the other, this test would mean that most of us are religious. Including atheists.

The Court even explicitly says so: "[A]mong religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others." (US v. Seeger) Essentially, belief in no God and commitment to study the non-existence of God are protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st Amendment.

The relevant part of the 1st Amendment is this: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..." So atheism is a protected practice. I agree. Atheism should be treated as a religion under the 1st Amendment. Atheists should be allowed to express their fundamental rights that religious people have. This means,(as it did in Kaufman v. McCaughtry) that atheists may practice their beliefs in jail by studying atheism and promoting it, and that (as in U.S. v. Seeger) secular humanists may be conscientious objectors to war based on their religious beliefs.

But if atheism is a religion for the free-exercise clause, then it must be a religion for the establishment clause. The government must not promote one religion over another.”
http://www.revelife.com/755827097/atheism-is-...

COMMENT: NOTE THAT THE FOLLOWING FROM THE ABOVE TEXT CONCLUDES THAT ATHEISM IS A RELIGION:
“... most of us are religious. Including atheists. The Court even explicitly says so: "[A]mong religions in this country which do not teach what would generally be considered a belief in the existence of God are Buddhism, Taoism, Ethical Culture, Secular Humanism and others." (US v. Seeger) Essentially, belief in no God and commitment to study the non-existence of God are protected by the free exercise clause of the 1st Amendment.”

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#2828
Oct 10, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
The laughing atheist - or is it the laughable atheist?
You're new here, aren't you?
Thank you for joining our close knit little group.
I guess you'll need to present whatever grievance(s) you have about your religion to the courts, since they've already decided the issue you're unhappy about, lol.(You were overruled....)
As explained, the supreme court decision was about an inmate in a very specific case. The court did not say that atheism is a religion, but rather, in that particular case, it had to be treated the same as religion.

It seems that you don't really care about accuracy.

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#2829
Oct 10, 2012
 
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't backtrack to explain why I am here to the late bloomers. Nor do I owe you any explanation as to why I am here.
If, like most lazy atheists, you don't want to familiarize yourself with what's been going on to date in the forum, you can remain in the dark, or go back and catch up, or disappear off the planet, lol. The choice is all yours – I couldn't care less what you do. LMAO
I took a minute to briefly go back and see what you posted.

Apparently you do not wish to discuss anything, but rather are using this format to stand on a soap box and make false claims while trying to tie atheism to science. Why you feel the need to do this is beyond me. I attribute it to insecurity, and self-doubt on your part. As it is obvious that you cannot hold up your end in a intelligent discussion, I will leave you to your ranting and raving. I have found others on these forums that are better spoken, and considerably more honest than you appear to be. If you claim to be a christian, you are not helping your cause.
Good luck.

Since: Mar 11

Dowagiac, MI

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#2830
Oct 10, 2012
 
I mentioned her once you have drooled I've her like two dozen times maybe? Creepy. Like rapist creepy I hope you keep your hands to yourself at the nursing homes.

But since you are so in love with my 82 year old grandma this I can tell you about her. She would look at your behavior on here and how you take delight in attacking others and she would tell you that you know nothing about being a Christian and then she would quote you 20 scriptures showing how you are anything but a Christian and how her theist grandson acts by far more Christian than you.
derek4 wrote:
<quoted text>
I admire her, if she is what you say. If you didn't want her mentioned, you should have left her out of your posts.
And I already have volunteered in nursing homes. In fact, I do nursing home volunteer work on a regular basis at 2 homes. It's always a blessing to see how most of the aged hold closer to their faith as they near the end of life. There are a few elderly people in the homes who are very bitter against God. They sit alone in their rooms, mad at the world. They want nothing to do with anyone, and no one wants anything to do with them - that's the way you'll be yourself someday.

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#2831
Oct 10, 2012
 

Judged:

1

It aint necessarily so wrote:
“I have something to say to the religionist who feels atheists never say anything positive: You are an intelligent human being. Your life is valuable for its own sake. You are not second-class in the universe, deriving meaning and purpose from some other mind. You are not inherently evil--you are inherently human, possessing the positive rational potential to help make this a world of morality, peace and joy. Trust yourself.”– Dan Barker
”There is joy in rationality, happiness in clarity of mind. Freethought is thrilling and fulfilling--absolutely essential to mental health and happiness.”– Dan Barker
”For my money, I'll bet on reason and humanistic kindness. Even if I am wrong I will have enjoyed my life, the existence of which is under little dispute.”– Dan Barker
“The longer I have been an atheist, the more amazed I am that I ever believed Christian notions.”– Dan Barker
“Freethinkers reject faith as a valid tool of knowledge. Faith is the opposite of reason because reason imposes very strict limits on what can be true, and faith has no limits at all. A Great Escape into faith is no retreat to safety. It is nothing less than surrender.”– Dan Barker
“There are many gods which Christians reject. I just believe in one less god then they do. The reasons that you might give for your atheism toward the Roman gods are likely the same reasons I would give for not believing in Jesus.”– Dan Barker
”It is wrong for a secular government to promote prayer. We think the National Day of Prayer is unconstitutional. What if the president declared a National Day of Cursing God because He failed us on September 11? Americans would say, "You've overstepped your authority." That's how we feel when he promotes prayer.”– Dan Barker
”Look at the posture of prayer. It is the posture of slavery, of bowing before your master. We are a proudly rebellious country. We kicked out the master. Now here comes the government telling us to humbly bow again.”– Dan Barker
”Not thinking critically, I assumed that the successful prayers were proof that God answers prayer while the failures were proof that there was something wrong with me.”– Dan Barker
”Prayer never changes the laws of nature.”– Dan Barker
“Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits.”– Dan Barker
“Some theists, observing that all 'effects' need a cause, assert that God is a cause but not an effect. But no one has ever observed an uncaused cause and simply inventing one merely assumes what the argument wishes to prove.”– Dan Barker
“Atheists claim god is unproved, not disproved.”– Dan Barker
“In any argument, the burden of proof is on the one making the claim. If a person claims to have invented an antigravity device, it is not incumbent on others to prove that no such thing exists. The believer must make a case. Everyone else is justified in refusing to believe until evidence is produced and substantiated.”– Dan Barker
*This* is IANS.

Be afraid.

Be very afraid.

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#2832
Oct 10, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
I mentioned her once you have drooled I've her like two dozen times maybe? Creepy. Like rapist creepy I hope you keep your hands to yourself at the nursing homes.
But since you are so in love with my 82 year old grandma this I can tell you about her. She would look at your behavior on here and how you take delight in attacking others and she would tell you that you know nothing about being a Christian and then she would quote you 20 scriptures showing how you are anything but a Christian and how her theist grandson acts by far more Christian than you.
<quoted text>
He wants grams?

Not grams!!!!

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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Earth,TX

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#2833
Oct 10, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
If your statements were true you would be hunted down and killed. Don't look now but you might be right! Sleep tight.
Ya Ha ha ha!!!!(Evil laugh)
Rabbi Jewsus loves you, huh? Lucky you, you give up your humanity now, for ..... ugh, umm, nothing, nada. You won't even get to be god's hemorrhoid collector, because .... if there was a god it wouldn't be the thing in the bible that is called a god.

But you will be remembered for being a condescending inhumane jerk, so goody for you.

Nobody collects a damned thing after they are dead, except fungus maybe.

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#2834
Oct 10, 2012
 
Just Think wrote:
<quoted text>Does that mean I'm also a Unicornian and a Leprechauniast too - because I don't think they are real either...
Do you understand the English language? It would appear not.

Religion is not a myth you Dolt!

I often wonder why people believe that nature builds things up when people like you are living proof that humans are slipping further from the perfect that was Adam.

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#2835
Oct 10, 2012
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>Atheism is a religion like bald is a hair color.

According to most references, atheism can be a belief that there is no God. But MORE INCLUSIVELY it can also just be a "disbelief in the existence of a supreme being or beings". When describing a whole group of people, the more inclusive definition is always the correct one. Mining for a specific definition that suits your preconceived bias is just another form of bearing false witness.

Even without a well defined dictionary reference, basic word origins should be sufficient to tell you you are wrong. Theism is a belief in one or more deities. Atheism is literally "NOT-theism" (a-theism). So it is nothing more than a categorical reference to describe everybody who is not specifically a theist.

I've got a feeling you already knew all of this and are lying in an attempt to incite hate against a whole group of people. Prejudicial hate is what Christians are best at.
No, bald is the absence of hair just like atheist is absence of truth. Religion is faith, you believe with out proof that there is no God that is faith / Religion

Athiest is a Religion.
You must believe with out proof that God does not exist.
Believe with out proof is faith.
The dictionary says the word Religion can be substituted for the word Faith.
So you are here Preaching your religion.

You are a Preacher of the first church of Apes R Us. It's a small congregation, really small there are 4 time the number of Gays then there are Atheist. The Theist church has about 49 time more people then your church but stay with it you might hold you own and stop losing you congregation.

2.3%. Wow that's pretty low!

On Second thought give it up, you'll never amount to anything.

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#2836
Oct 10, 2012
 
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>"Every Creationist has no valid evidence for their hallucinations and love to lie about science and atheists in an effort to further their failed cult".
Go away Skippy

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#2837
Oct 10, 2012
 
The laughing atheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I took a minute to briefly go back and see what you posted.
Apparently you do not wish to discuss anything, but rather are using this format to stand on a soap box and make false claims while trying to tie atheism to science. Why you feel the need to do this is beyond me. I attribute it to insecurity, and self-doubt on your part. As it is obvious that you cannot hold up your end in a intelligent discussion, I will leave you to your ranting and raving. I have found others on these forums that are better spoken, and considerably more honest than you appear to be. If you claim to be a christian, you are not helping your cause.
Good luck.
Since I don't know or respect you, I have no interest in what you attribute anything to, much less your opinion of me, lol.

Thanks for confirming to everyone that you are indeed the “laughable atheist” when you dismiss news stories from credible news sources and scientific journals about fraudulent science as “false claims”. At least you wasted no time demonstrating your zero credibility.

When every atheist who has posted in any forum has expressed support and acceptance of the theory of evolution, the ties between the “theory”(science) and atheism are obvious. To deny the correlation is the height of dishonest absurdity – hence:“laughable atheist”(you).

Yes, I imagine you do indeed feel insecure in your false beliefs. So I will leave you to whine in the corner with crackpot poster “it ain't necessarily so”. As he is well aware, I never read or answer his posts – I simply skip over them. I will show you the same courtesy.

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#2838
Oct 10, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you understand the English language? It would appear not.
Religion is not a myth you Dolt!
I often wonder why people believe that nature builds things up when people like you are living proof that humans are slipping further from the perfect that was Adam.
Which religion, dolt?

All religions?

Or just yours?

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#2839
Oct 10, 2012
 
Khatru wrote:
<quoted text>The majority of the world's Christians accept that evolution is a fact.
Have you checked the news on what the majority of AMERICANS accept?

From CBS NEWS, February 11, 2009:

Poll: Majority Reject Evolution

Most Americans do not accept the theory of evolution. Instead, 51 percent of Americans say God created humans in their present form, and another three in 10 say that while humans evolved, God guided the process. Just 15 percent say humans evolved, and that God was not involved.

These views are similar to what they were in November 2004 shortly after the presidential election.
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-500160_162-965223...

Also, it was YOU who once posted this comment,“You should know that being in the minority doesn't mean you're wrong. What percentage of the population did Noah and his family make up?“

And I feel sure you remember that the answer you were given is 100%, lol.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

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#2840
Oct 10, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
No, bald is the absence of hair just like atheist is absence of truth.
Actually bald is the absence of hair just like atheism is the absence of theism. Or to put it in words you might be able to understand - atheism is the absence of BELIEF in deities.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Religion is faith, you believe with out proof that there is no God that is faith / Religion
Actually I just don't believe YOU when you make your unsubstantiated claims about gods.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Believe with out proof is faith.
Actually belief without proof is what you do. I am waiting on some sort of evidence for you claim that your (or any other) god exists.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
You are a Preacher of the first church of Apes R Us. It's a small congregation, really small there are 4 time the number of Gays then there are Atheist. The Theist church has about 49 time more people then your church but stay with it you might hold you own and stop losing you congregation.
2.3%. Wow that's pretty low!
On Second thought give it up, you'll never amount to anything.
Thank you for once again showing everybody the hate that is so common among Christians. You are a fine example of what it means to be a Christian.

(And you are wrong about your numbers - " http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1618445... ;)

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#2841
Oct 10, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
I mentioned her once you have drooled I've her like two dozen times maybe? Creepy. Like rapist creepy I hope you keep your hands to yourself at the nursing homes.
But since you are so in love with my 82 year old grandma this I can tell you about her. She would look at your behavior on here and how you take delight in attacking others and she would tell you that you know nothing about being a Christian and then she would quote you 20 scriptures showing how you are anything but a Christian and how her theist grandson acts by far more Christian than you.
<quoted text>
If I recall, she's a Baptist, right? I wonder how proud she would be of your godlessness, lol? I'm sure she prays for you.

Since: Mar 11

Louisville, KY

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#2842
Oct 10, 2012
 
He has a granny fetish it seems. Rather creepy.
Saint Augustine wrote:
<quoted text>
He wants grams?
Not grams!!!!

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