Don't dictate beliefs

[Khatru]

Langoliers wrote:

<quoted text>
2.3%. LOL
You lost 97.7% of you membership do you have any idea how pathetic that is?
Close the doors your finished! LOL
Stick a fork in it, it's done! LOL

What's pathetic is the way you choose supernatural mumbo jumbo instead of reality.

[Khatru]

Langoliers wrote:

<quoted text>
LOL
And you're lying for Satan!
LOL. 2,3%. LOL

I notice you don't deny your lies.

[nanoanomaly]

madscot wrote:

<quoted text>
I gotcha back girl.

Barebacking faux kitty again?!! Gross!

[Reason Personified]

Langoliers wrote:

<quoted text>
You're stretching it a bit.
I know I have said some way better shit
Then that!!
Oh and Adolf Hitler was not a Christian.
But you knew that. You just keep pushing Hitler as a Christian because you think that will belittle the Christian faith.

That doesn't belittle Christain faith. Christain faith belittles itself.
You also can't rewrite history, and keep it truth, by claiming that Adolph Hitler wasn't a Christain. There are thousands of pieces of evidence, including his own words that says he was a Christain. That specific churches and religions are now embarrsassed by it, doesn't change that in the 1930's and 40's Hiltler was a Christain acting as the Christain leader, of a Christain country.
Now that he is dead, all the religitards wan't to change his religion, but that is not possible. Say what you will, the truth stays the same. Adolph Hitler was a Catholic Christain!
Google: Gott Mit Uns
The German words, "Gott Mit Uns" means God With Us and appeared on Nazi soldiers belt buckles during WWII.

[It aint necessarily so]

Chess Jurist wrote:

<quoted text>
Now that's funny.

Thanks.

[It aint necessarily so]

Langoliers wrote:

Oh and Adolf Hitler was not a Christian. But you knew that. You just keep pushing Hitler as a Christian because you think that will belittle the Christian faith.

No, I don't know that. What evidence is there that Hitler was not a Christian? That he was a murderous psychopath? Some quotations?

If I want to point the finger at the Christian faith using Nazi Germany, I point to the German clergy and the German people, not Hitler. I could stipulate to Hitler being a non-Christian, and the picture is still abysmal for Christianity.

The claim has never been that Christianity made Hitler evil, which is the implied claim when theists point at him and other psychopathic heads of personality cults like Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot. The claim is that Christianity as an ethical system failed in Nazi Germany as it did everywhere else it has been put to the test.

Arguing over whether Hitler was a Christian or not is merely a distraction. Do you think that Christianity is off the hook for its role in the human catastrophe that was Nazi Germany - even if it were only a permissive and facilitative role - if it can be shown that Hitler was not a Christian?

Germany was Christian. Nearly the entire country acquired its moral fiber from the Christian church and Christian culture, just like Hitler. Under the duress of military humiliation and depression, Germany welcomed and supported a man like Hitler. When it was needed most, as usual, Christianity failed again as an ethical system. Humanist would have performed better.

I have no doubt that if the people posting as skeptics on this thread characterized the German people instead - that is, if Germany embodied the humanist values of people like Hedonist, Serpent, Khatru, and Chess Juror off the top of my head - there would have been no Holocaust. None of them would have accepted what a Christian nation embraced.

I said that Christianity failed as an ethical system in Nazi Germany as it always has when put to the test. It failed in colonial Salem, and it failed in modern America again in 2004, an unconscionable election outcome involving Bush, the Christian clergy and the Christian masses. The American people "re-elected" a reprobate on the advice of their priests, pastors and ministers, even when it was clear by 2004 that Bush had lied them into war, given huge tax breaks to the wealthy on the backs of the poor and middle classes, was using the Constitution as toilet paper, had outed a CIA operative and was sanctioning torture in all our our names. Humanists typically rejected that - I sure did - whereas Christians typically embraced it.

We need communities with stronger moral fiber than this, and I believe that the values of humanism as replacements for Christian values can do this better than any other course of action.

[Just Think]

Langoliers wrote:

<quoted text>
News flash to puppet boy.
Everything was made by God
He owns it all, he makes the rules!
Not you bucko!

Prove it - otherwise, you're just boring everyone.

[It aint necessarily so]

It aint necessarily so wrote:

We are told how your god has his hand in human matters

Langoliers wrote:

You've not been listening. God does not interfere in human life's.

I have been listening - most of my life. Here's what Jerry Falwell said to Pat Robertson on television about 9/11 :

[1] "And, I know that I'll hear from them for this. But, throwing God out successfully with the help of the federal court system, throwing God out of the public square, out of the schools. The abortionists have got to bear some burden for this because God will not be mocked. And when we destroy 40 million little innocent babies, we make God mad. I really believe that the Pagans, and the abortionists, and the feminists, and the gays and the lesbians who are actively trying to make that an alternative lifestyle, the ACLU, People For the American Way - all of them who have tried to secularize America - I point the finger in their face and say 'you helped this happen.' " - Jerry Falwell

[2] Robertson responded: "Well, I totally concur ... We have insulted God at the highest level of our government. Then, we say,'Why does this happen?' It is happening because God Almighty is lifting His protection from us. Once that protection is gone, we are vulnerable because we are a free society." - Pat Robertson

Robertson is not only condemning what he feel is American impiety, he seems to also be taking a poke at the vulnerability of being "a free society."

Anyway, men like that define Christian dogma for millions of American, who believe that the Christian god smites man periodically.

It aint necessarily so wrote:

floods, fire, earthquakes, tsunamis and the like, and that he is angry

Langoliers wrote:

I thought you were an atheist? LOL
You believe this? "floods, fire, earthquakes, tsunamis and the like, and that he is angry" LOL. What a Fool.

Only a fool would believe that? I don't believe that. Christians do. The most prominent and influential Christians with the biggest and loudest pulpits say things like that, as I just demonstrated.

It aint necessarily so wrote:

Look how well that worked for you. You have made atheists the most despised subset of people in America, and driven us into the closet.

Langoliers wrote:

I didn't do that they did it to them selfs!

I meant "you" in the collective sense - second person plural. And no, atheists are not responsible for the intense atheophobia in America. Christians like the two men named above are, as well as the people that penned these words, all of which have been heard and read by millions or billions:

[3] "The fool says in his heart,'There is no God.' They are corrupt, their deeds are vile; there is no one who does good" - Psalm 14:1

[4] "But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." - Revelation 21:8

[5]“No, I don’t know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered as patriots. This is one nation under God.”– George H. W. Bush

In these quotes, freethinkers are called unpatriotic, unfit citizens, corrupt, vile, bereft of goodness, the moral equivalent of murderers and whoremongers, and appropriate for eternal torture according to the judgment of a perfectly just and loving god. No wonder we are so despised. Who could endure that kind of bad press for millennia and not be?

If freethinkers were to characterize Christians like this for a few decades, you would be just as reviled as we are now.

[derek4]

Givemeliberty wrote:

Unable to show proof? Check.
Ad Hom attack trying to redirect from said failure?
Check.
Loser Christhole goes down like his daughter at a motley crew concert? Check.
I humbly accept your surrender. So as I have proven churches are closing down left and right so is it any mystery why they are attacking non believers?
<quoted text>

You pore thang. You're crying and whining again, lol.

Like I said before, since it was you who made the first claim, and I quote you:“All these churches closing down are hoping someone buys them as well. One in my area was made into a strip club. Neat!”--- you should have backed that up with links, or it's nothing but gibberish.

SO: When you show your links, I show my links. I promised you that before, and I keep my promises, but you don't......you failed and let us all down, just like we can always depend on you to do.

Until you fix your problem, you remain the loser you always have been, so nothing's new.

In the meantime, I've already posted plenty of facts and links which support my positions but you don't read those, so why would you read anything new?

Tell you what – you just keep a pickin' at yore boogers, same as you always do, lmao.

Oh, and try going to church with grandma when you see her over the holidays. You never know, it might add years to your life:

Health Benefit of Believing God Cares About You

A new study from chaplains George Fitchett and Patricia Murphy of the Rush University Medical Center found that clinically depressed people who believe in a personal and caring God respond better to medical treatment for their illness than do those who don’t believe in a concerned God.
As Murphy, who’s also a professor of religion, health, and human values at Rush, notes:


The positive response to medication had little to do with the feeling of hope that typically accompanies spiritual belief. It was tied specifically to the belief that a Supreme Being cared.
For people diagnosed with clinical depression, medication certainly plays an important role in reducing symptoms. But when treating persons diagnosed with depression, clinicians need to be aware of the role of religion in their patients’ lives. It is an important resource in planning their care.
http://www.scienceandreligiontoday.com/2010/0...

[derek4]

Reason Personified wrote:

<quoted text>You also can't rewrite history, and keep it truth, by claiming that Adolph Hitler wasn't a Christain. There are thousands of pieces of evidence, including his own words that says he was a Christain.

Yep, in his own words he said he was a Christian, and in my own words, I say I am President of the United States, and that makes me president; lmao!!!

Was Hitler a Christian?

"Hitler was a neo-pagan terrorist whose conscience was not informed by Christianity, but by pseudo-scientific racist philosophies. Hitler hated the Catholic Church, made plans to kill the Pope, authorized the murder of thousands of priests and nuns, and did everything he could to suppress the influence of the Church. In 1933, Hitler said,'It is through the peasantry that we shall really be able to destroy Christianity because there is in them a true religion rooted in nature and blood.'"

[further down, within the text:]

“... atheists looking for a quick cheap-shot may claim Hitler was a Christian; similarly, Christians looking for a quick shot may claim he was an atheist. Know what? Hitler was a vegetarian! Oooh, those evil vegetarians! He also recommended that parents give their children milk to drink instead of beer and started the first anti-smoking campaign.(So by the "reasoning" used in these types of arguments, if you are truly anti-Hitler, you should smoke heavily and only give your baby beer!) Better watch out, though he was an oxygen-breather, too! In other words, does it really matter whether Hitler was an atheist or a Christian or whatever? Just because somebody may hold a particular worldview (along with other views) doesn't make him a spokesman for that view, or even remotely representative of others who hold that view.”

continued:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1699...

Hitler was an imposter, not a Christian.... a deceiver, and not even a good one.

Did Stalin kill more people than Hitler?

Answer:

Yes, Stalin killed more, although neither ordered killing directly. They often just hinted at it.
Hitler hinted at the killling of 17 million.

Stalin has estimated murders of between 3 and 60 million people - it is currently generally said that he killed over 20 million people during his leadership.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Did_Stalin_kill_mor...

[derek4]

From: The Washington Post

An Atheist Defends the Value of Religion

By Bruce Sheiman
author

As an atheist, I approach religion much like an economist. I believe religion persists in our market-based culture, despite the prevalence of secularism, because it provides net value over and above its required investment, and because it beats competing belief systems in the same value proposition. I evaluate religion in terms of its pragmatic usefulness to humankind and seek to answer the question posed by William James: "Grant an idea or belief to be true, what concrete difference will its being true make in anyone's actual life?"
Atheism is a bankrupt ideology on empirical grounds: Its benefits simply do not come close to covering its opportunity costs. Religion, by contrast, offers the vast majority of people a high-value transaction: Its enduring benefits far outweigh its costs. Religion persists, in short, for the reason that it provides the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Thus, by book "An Atheist Defends Religion" is not mainly a critical examination of the New Atheism. Rather, I am making a broad statement about the affirmative role of religion in the contemporary world and what is lost in a purely secular conception of the world.

... continued:

Faith is one of the most powerful forces in human development and a strong impetus to personal transformation and collective progress. Religion's misdeeds may make for provocative headlines, but the everyday good works of billions of pious people is the real history of religion, one that parallels the growth and prosperity of humankind. There are countless examples of individuals lifting themselves out of personal misery through faith. In the lives of these people, God is not a delusion, God is not a spell that must be broken - God is indeed great.
The debate about the existence of God is never ending. What is not in dispute is that God exists in people's hearts, minds and spirits. What is not in dispute is that religion is adaptive, constructive and healthful - and thereby makes a positive difference in people's lives. Reflecting James' pragmatic conception of belief: When we act as if religion is true, we act with greater optimism, hope and benevolence.

... continued:

Bruce Sheiman is the author of the new book "An Atheist Defends Religion: Why Humanity is Better Off With Religion than Without It."
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/gue...

[Hedonist]

Langoliers wrote: "floods, fire, earthquakes, tsunamis and the like, and that he is angry"

It aint necessarily so wrote:

<quoted text>
Only a fool would believe that? I don't believe that. Christians do.....

And insurance companies. These are all considered "acts of god" in standard insurance policies.

[Langoliers]

derek4 wrote:

<quoted text>Where are your hate posts against “Dearth Vader”? I didn't find them. Shouldn't you be protesting all fictitious characters? That's because you know “Dearth Vader” isn't real, but you are afraid that the God your grandma believes in might be real. You perceive God as a threat to your ungodly self, so you try to keep convincing yourself that you're right. Why is that? Your atheist friends don't need to be convinced, and your words fall on deaf ears with Christians, so it's a pointless exercise for you. But if it makes you feel good to do that, then go for it, lol.

Very good point.

[Langoliers]

Givemeliberty wrote:

Waiting for those links not excuses and redirections.

Links or it didn't happen.

Please hold you breath, we'll get right to you! LOL

[Langoliers]

Hedonist wrote:

In America, 3500 — 4000 churches close their doors each year.( www.barna.org )

Churches lose an estimated 2,765,000 people each year to nominalism and secularism.(also from the Barna Study)

Usual Sunday church attendance has from dropped from 1,606,00 in 1968 to 881,000 in 2005.( www.churchsociety.org )

Only 21% of Americans attend religious services every week.( www.religioustolerence.org )

The Anglican Church is selling seven church properties on southern Vancouver Island to pay down its deficit. The properties include All Saints Church and St. ColumbaÂ’s Church in View Royal, St. AlbanÂ’s Church and St. SaviourÂ’s Church in Victoria, Brentwood Chapel Hall in Central Saanich, St. AndrewÂ’s Church in Cowichan and All Saints Church Hall in Crofton.(" http://www.standfirminfaith.com/... ;)

Statistics reported by the Episcopal Church show active baptized members of the denomination that claimed more than 3.5 million members in the mid-1960s shrunk to 1.9 million at the end of 2010.(" http://www.broomfieldenterprise.com/ci_192417... ;)

"In America, 3500 — 4000 churches close their doors each year."

Nice try ass hole!

"Annual Net Gain of 500 Churches Every Year in U.S.
According to a recent Christian Post article there is some good news for the mission of Jesus in the United States. In an article titled, Total U.S. Churches No Longer In Decline it points out that every year there are now 4,000 churches being planted in the U.S. while 3500 churches will close their doors. This bottom line is this: we are seeing a net gain of 500 new churches every year in the United States."

http://daveferguson.typepad.com/daveferguson/...

More lies by an Atheist, what a shocker!

[Langoliers]

Givemeliberty wrote:

<quoted text>Obviously :)

He has a little more time to back up his claim or lose.

Lose?

Him? LOL

You lost 97.7% of your membership
That's losing!! Big time!!

[Langoliers]

Givemeliberty wrote:

<quoted text>This is why these religious types are so focused on non believers. Again if we were such a small minority why would they waste so much time and effort?

The answer is they are bleeding memberships and therefore money and are desperate.

Follow his lies!!

It's all you have.

http://daveferguson.typepad.com/daveferguson/...

"Annual Net Gain of 500 Churches Every Year in U.S.
According to a recent Christian Post article there is some good news for the mission of Jesus in the United States. In an article titled, Total U.S. Churches No Longer In Decline it points out that every year there are now 4,000 churches being planted in the U.S. while 3500 churches will close their doors. This bottom line is this: we are seeing a net gain of 500 new churches every year in the United States."

[Langoliers]

Khatru wrote:

<quoted text>Still waiting for this proof you claim to have.

This is the best you can do?

You're just another xtian gasbag.

Hold your breath, I'll get it soon (after you drop dead. LOL)

I'll repeat this for you S L O W atheist. I'm not here to give you a way to heaven. I don't want to see any of you there with me for eternity. I'm here to attack you! And your religion!
Ah HA HA HA!!!!!(Evil laugh)

[Khatru]

Langoliers wrote:

<quoted text>
Hold your breath, I'll get it soon (after you drop dead. LOL)
I'll repeat this for you S L O W atheist. I'm not here to give you a way to heaven. I don't want to see any of you there with me for eternity. I'm here to attack you! And your religion!
Ah HA HA HA!!!!!(Evil laugh)

Like I said - just another xtian gasbag.

[Langoliers]

Khatru wrote:

<quoted text>That's yet another failure to refute me.

I'll take it you agree with me when I say that the god of the New Testament is communist.

I thought you were an Atheist!
You can't believe that God is a communist and be an atheist.

Talk about not understanding ones faith!

You're a joke!