Missouri Passes Right-to-Pray Amendment

Aug 21, 2012 | Posted by: Hedonist | Full story: abcnews.go.com

Reiterating a protected right under the U.S. Constitution, on Tuesday Missouri voters overwhelmingly approved an amendment to the state constitution reiterating individuals' right to pray publicly and in schools.

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141 - 148 of 148 Comments Last updated Aug 29, 2012
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“Darwin died for your sins”

Since: Aug 08

Nunya

#143 Aug 27, 2012
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that WOULD explain a few things!!
I know, right?

LOL

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#144 Aug 28, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. Atheism denies the existence of any supernatural being, deity or otherwise. Therefore, your premise is faulty as is the conclusions you draw from it.
All that is necessary to defeat atheism to to prove the existence of a supernatural force or being. Because you atheists are unable to overcome the simple proofs I put forth on this thread, you realize that the faith based nature of your view has been exposed and it pisses you off. In response you attack using red herrings, strawmen, and outright lies. All of that is nothing new, I've seen it many times before.
*yawn*
Wrong! Some atheist reject, some simply have no comment nor opinion, they simply are not theist. Atheism isn't an ism, it is the dearth of a theistic "ism".
guest

United States

#145 Aug 28, 2012
havent forgotten wrote:
what is the unobserved cause you think that logic dictates? I am not wanting to get into the intricacies of the science debate. were you implying some supernatural force?
The issue is quite simple. The universe itself is not eternal. It had a beginning, at least according to the consensus scientific view. As I've pointed out ad nauseum, logic dictates that something (force, being, other) brought it into existence. A "cause" if you will. The nature and characteristics of that cause are not germane to whether it exists or not.

Something outside of or beyond the universe, which is defined as all matter and energy, is by definition supernatural. My point was to offer both scientific and logic proof that a supernatural cause (force, being) exists.

If we strip away all of the gradiosity, we can see clearly the real issue at hand. Unfortunately, many on this thread only seek to obfuscate and divert rather than have meaningful discussion.

“It's just a box of rain...”

Since: May 07

Knoxville, TN

#146 Aug 28, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue is quite simple. The universe itself is not eternal. It had a beginning, at least according to the consensus scientific view. As I've pointed out ad nauseum, logic dictates that something (force, being, other) brought it into existence. A "cause" if you will. The nature and characteristics of that cause are not germane to whether it exists or not.
Something outside of or beyond the universe, which is defined as all matter and energy, is by definition supernatural. My point was to offer both scientific and logic proof that a supernatural cause (force, being) exists.
If we strip away all of the gradiosity, we can see clearly the real issue at hand. Unfortunately, many on this thread only seek to obfuscate and divert rather than have meaningful discussion.
Unfortunately, you've been making that point using similar obfuscation and diversion. Are you a lawyer?

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#147 Aug 28, 2012
guest wrote:
<quoted text>
The issue is quite simple. The universe itself is not eternal. It had a beginning, at least according to the consensus scientific view. As I've pointed out ad nauseum, logic dictates that something (force, being, other) brought it into existence. A "cause" if you will. The nature and characteristics of that cause are not germane to whether it exists or not.
Something outside of or beyond the universe, which is defined as all matter and energy, is by definition supernatural. My point was to offer both scientific and logic proof that a supernatural cause (force, being) exists.
If we strip away all of the gradiosity, we can see clearly the real issue at hand. Unfortunately, many on this thread only seek to obfuscate and divert rather than have meaningful discussion.
"The universe itself is not eternal."

What do you base that on?
.
.
"at least according to the consensus scientific view."

Oh, so you accept the consensus scientific view. Well, the consensus scientific view is that there is no supernatural force or being. Why do you not accept that?
.
.
"logic dictates that something (force, being, other) brought it into existence."

Logic does NOT dictate that unless you have no other plausible alternative, and you have some evidence that this "other" does really exist. Just because you obviously do not understand those alternatives, does not make them any less likely. In your case, you are incorrectly trying to invoke Newtonian theory which does NOT apply(as had been explained to you several times along with the more modern theories(Einstien)that do ) In addition, if you claim that something (force, being, other) brought it into existence, than you must be able to present evidence of that something DOES exist, or at least give some evidence for the belief that it does exist. Just saying that "I don't believe the current theory", is not enough to bring credence to your desire for a creator being to exist.
.
.
"The nature and characteristics of that cause are not germane to whether it exists or not."

Especially since you can't apply your own parameters to that "thing". Basically, you are making a claim based on a theory that, if applied to your solution, would make it impossible for that solution to exist. You are running away from multiple requests for an explanation because you have no answers. Your claim that it is not germane to the conversation is simple dishonesty on your part. If you were worried about the topic at hand, you would not have started your silliness on a thread about a right to pray amendment.
.
.
"Something outside of or beyond the universe, which is defined as all matter and energy, is by definition supernatural. My point was to offer both scientific and logic proof that a supernatural cause (force, being) exists."

And you failed.
.
.
"If we strip away all of the gradiosity, we can see clearly the real issue at hand."

Yes we can. You are trying to prove that there is a god.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#148 Aug 28, 2012
Reason Personified wrote:
Atheism isn't an ism, it is the dearth of a theistic "ism".
Here's my favorite creatarded explanation for why atheism is a belief system because, like "theism," it ends with the suffix "-ism," and causes schisms. Seriously. From http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TOCO8TE... :

"a-the-ism is a movement away from the-ism, or deity oriented belief, and both are schisms of belief in general because of the suffix -ism."

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#149 Aug 29, 2012
guest wrote:
The issue is quite simple. The universe itself is not eternal. It had a beginning, at least according to the consensus scientific view.
Not that simple. Only the current expansion of the universe had a beginning.
guest wrote:
As I've pointed out ad nauseum, logic dictates that something (force, being, other) brought it into existence.
You mean Jesus logic dictates it. The rest of us reject your "logic."
guest wrote:
Something outside of or beyond the universe, which is defined as all matter and energy, is by definition supernatural.
Wrong again. There is no supernatural, just the natural. If there is anything beyond our universe, it is nature, too. If you want to denote that it is outside of the four dimensions of spacetime, or made of a substance other than matter and energy, then you may call it exo-universal. There is evidence that such a concept may make be relevant - perhaps a multiverse exists.

The word "supernatural" implies magic and gods, for which there is no evidence, unless you can eventually demonstrate intelligent design. And when I say demonstrate, I don't mean to Christians and science rubes. I mean to the secular community and its scientific and mathematical experts. That's a far greater task than demonstrating a reality outside of our four dimensions.
guest wrote:
My point was to offer both scientific and logic proof that a supernatural cause (force, being) exists.
Then I guess you failed.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#150 Aug 29, 2012
guest wrote:
If we strip away all of the gradiosity, we can see clearly the real issue at hand. Unfortunately, many on this thread only seek to obfuscate and divert rather than have meaningful discussion.
Meaningful discussion? You are dictatorial. There is no discussion here. You keep insisting that your version of logic and science (ex nihilo and Newton) is correct, and that you have proven it to people that continue to reject it. Nice proof.

But being the verbal bully that you are, you just keep bringing the same debunked claims back -- how did you word it? Oh yeah -- "ad nauseum," also claiming that you alone are logical, and that your ideas alone constitute meaningful discussion.

Reality check: How's that been working out? Do you think that this has been an effective campaign for Jesus so far?

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