'Good without a god': Faces of atheis...

'Good without a god': Faces of atheism in Oklahoma

There are 7527 comments on the NewsOK.com story from Jul 5, 2013, titled 'Good without a god': Faces of atheism in Oklahoma. In it, NewsOK.com reports that:

Rebecca Vitsmun is shown during an interview with a CNN reporter shortly after the May 20 tornado that destroyed her Moore home.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at NewsOK.com.

antiatheist

Seminole, OK

#7898 May 22, 2014
AngelAngle wrote:
Of those aged 18 to 35, three in 10 say they are not affiliated with any religion, while only half are “absolutely certain” a god exists. These are at or near the highest levels of religious disaffiliation recorded for any generation in the 25 years the Pew Research Center has been polling on these topics.
http://www.salon.com/2014/03/25/calling_the_c...
I think the bible already predicted this didn't it?

Since: Aug 13

Dallas, TX

#7899 May 22, 2014
antiatheist wrote:
<quoted text>
I think the bible already predicted this didn't it?
No, not at all. In no way has the Bible predicted ANYTHING. If it could you, could provide an example of a "Prediction"

A specific prediction. Nothing vague, which is how people actually "predict.

There will be wars and rumors of wars, what horsesh#t!

This is a snake oil salesman's technique.

Fortunately for the Bible if you have a good sales pitch people will buy the snake oil.
So What

Newalla, OK

#7900 May 23, 2014
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been working for more than 40 years, and never asked to take a drug test. I think they are a legitimate thing for worker's whose jobs are such that trying to do them while impaired creates a danger to the public or to co-workers, but completely unnecessary for the vast majority of workers. A file clerk who misfiles while stoned is not a workplace menace. A secretary typing the same sentence over and over because she keeps losing her place is unproductive, but not dangerous.
The tests are not so reliable. Eating a poppy seed bagel can and has resulted in people testing positive for opiate use. Taking sudafed for a cold or allergy can lead to a false positive for meth.(The reason you can't buy more than a limited quantity of sudafed at any one time is because it is a major component in manufacturing meth. THC from marijuana is fat-soluble, and stays in the body for over a month.
Beyond all of that, it is overly intrusive and derogates from human dignity and freedom. If you choose to work for employers who have no respect for your privacy, that's your choice. Insisting that your choice be imposed on others just to make you feel better about it is irrational.
In most cases, private industry adopts things like this out of lawyerphobia. They fear that if they don't take every possible precaution against every possible scenario where someone might assert liability, they will be sued into starvation. In the case of governments, I don't believe any government anywhere has every refused an accretion of power."Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." Louis Brandeis, US Supreme Court Justice.
Between exaggerated fear of liability lawsuits and vastly exaggerated fear of terrorism, private industry and the government have successfully menaced the American public with an endless series of hobgoblins, kept us clamoring to be led to safety, and made a mockery of the Bill of Rights.
What we have here is a modern day Lincoln-Douglas Debate.
I had the privilege of witnessing a state high school debate competition over this very subject. I found it to be a great topic because it effects everyone's lives not only because of abuse, but economic factors as well.

While watching students having to work with the pros or cons of the subject that they were given. I found it a topic of equal truths for both sides. But after about an hour I found myself mocking the students with mental blah blahs, until one student came to the podium with a new twist for her con and something I haven't seen brought up in the exchanges between you and Amused. The fact that businesses are being held hostage by insurance companies when it comes to drug testing. Her final remarks was about a country that prides themselves on the fact that we are not only a democracy but also on its free enterprise system is allowing that same system to dictate policy on our freedoms. I believe that factor and maybe because she went second to last helped her to win the competition.

I want to ask you and Amused to please give me your thoughts on drug testing in our schools.
So What

Newalla, OK

#7901 May 23, 2014
I should have written RHill instead of Amused.

I wish to express my deepest an heart felt apologies if this mistake has rendered anyone emotionally useless, since some on this forum seem to be sensitive to verbal jabs.----So What
-The Artist-

Norman, OK

#7902 May 23, 2014
So What wrote:
<quoted text>As you can probably tell -The Artist- is extremely racist.
Suuure, mammy. That certainly explains my support for Herman Cain and J.C. Watts.
Now go ahead...work your liberal racist magic on the conservative black man.
So What wrote:
<quoted text>I have taken exception to his racist remarks in the past so he has decided to portray me as the race and sex he hates the most.
The truth about you and your pets hurts, eh mammy?
Amused

Lowell, MA

#7903 May 23, 2014
So What wrote:
<quoted text>...
I want to ask you and Amused to please give me your thoughts on drug testing in our schools.
Schools are supposed to prepare students for life. American schools are supposed to prepare students for life in a democracy. In this, they fail abjectly. Drug testing students without probable cause to believe that the specific student tested has in fact broken a school rule by being under the influence while in school teaches students that they have no rights worthy of consideration. Our rights are being slowly, and in some cases, not so slowly, being stripped away by the government. Electronic surveillance of our telephone conversations, email and texts, physical searches being authorized on the "probable cause" furnished by anonymous tipsters, searches of our bodily fluids, all would have been intolerable to the authors of the Bill of Rights.

Drug testing in schools conditions students to believe that they are the pawns of an all-powerful state, without rights."The government is the potent omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by its example." Louis D. Brandeis. The lessen taught by the government that students have no rights prepares them for life in a totalitarian regime, not a democracy.

School drug testing is double plus ungood. Our schools are rapidly approaching the point where that expression will be both grammatically and politically correct. The only thing George Orwell got wrong was the timeline.
antiatheist

Seminole, OK

#7904 May 23, 2014
AngelAngle wrote:
<quoted text>
No, not at all. In no way has the Bible predicted ANYTHING. If it could you, could provide an example of a "Prediction"
A specific prediction. Nothing vague, which is how people actually "predict.
There will be wars and rumors of wars, what horsesh#t!
This is a snake oil salesman's technique.
Fortunately for the Bible if you have a good sales pitch people will buy the snake oil.
wow what hate you have for God angel. He also predicted that we would be hated because of Him. Thanks for making that prophecy a reality.
So What

Newalla, OK

#7905 May 23, 2014
-The Artist- wrote:
<quoted text>
Suuure, mammy. That certainly explains my support for Herman Cain and J.C. Watts.
Now go ahead...work your liberal racist magic on the conservative black man.
<quoted text>
The truth about you and your pets hurts, eh mammy?
Herman Cain? LOL! Why?

I know why you support J.C. Watts. It's because you're a Sooner Fan, and he was a great Q.B.. But did you know he got rich off of insider information about a run down housing addition just north of the Tinker Air Force Base fence line that was going to be acquired by the government many years later. He bought up houses for next to nothing and boarded them up even though some were in rentable condition because he didn't want to invest any money into them and didn't want to draw attention to what he was doing. Then sold them to the tax payers for over a 1000% profit. Rumor has it that he didn't want to be exposed for the good buddy deal, even though he was favored in the polls to be the next Governor of Oklahoma in 2010 so he didn't run.

But he did support Obama for President 2008 even though he was a Republican. What do you think about your Conservative Hero now? Then Newt (The Moon Base Builder) Gingrich in 2012. Maybe he wanted to buy property on the Moon before anybody else could.

Come to think about it, he wasn't that great of a Q.B.. He never won a National Championship and only made it to the Canadian Football League.
LOL

United States

#7906 May 23, 2014
antiatheist wrote:
<quoted text>
wow what hate you have for God angel. He also predicted that we would be hated because of Him. Thanks for making that prophecy a reality.
I wonder if she gets so emotional over the Tooth Fairy, Peter Pan or Santa Claus?
So What

Newalla, OK

#7907 May 23, 2014
antiatheist wrote:
<quoted text>
wow what hate you have for God angel. He also predicted that we would be hated because of Him. Thanks for making that prophecy a reality.
LOL! How can he have hate for God? He doesn't even believe God exists. Do you ever think before you post?
So What

Newalla, OK

#7908 May 23, 2014
So What wrote:
<quoted text>Herman Cain? LOL! Why?
I know why you support J.C. Watts. It's because you're a Sooner Fan, and he was a great Q.B.. But did you know he got rich off of insider information about a run down housing addition just north of the Tinker Air Force Base fence line that was going to be acquired by the government many years later. He bought up houses for next to nothing and boarded them up even though some were in rentable condition because he didn't want to invest any money into them and didn't want to draw attention to what he was doing. Then sold them to the tax payers for over a 1000% profit. Rumor has it that he didn't want to be exposed for the good buddy deal, even though he was favored in the polls to be the next Governor of Oklahoma in 2010 so he didn't run.
But he did support Obama for President 2008 even though he was a Republican. What do you think about your Conservative Hero now? Then Newt (The Moon Base Builder) Gingrich in 2012. Maybe he wanted to buy property on the Moon before anybody else could.
Come to think about it, he wasn't that great of a Q.B.. He never won a National Championship and only made it to the Canadian Football League.
Oh and I failed to mention that he received his inside information while he was a U.S. Congressman.
Don

Stroud, OK

#7909 May 23, 2014
So What wrote:
<quoted text>LOL! How can he have hate for God? He doesn't even believe God exists. Do you ever think before you post?
DAH maybe just maybe that's that point she was trying to make! If GOD doesn't exist why the hatred? If he really believes that then GOD would mean nothing and have no effect on his world.

Think about before you post again.
So What

Newalla, OK

#7910 May 23, 2014
So What wrote:
<quoted text> Do you ever think before you post?
Sorry, stupid question. I guess I'm guilty of not thinking this time.

Since: Aug 13

Dallas, TX

#7911 May 23, 2014
antiatheist wrote:
<quoted text>
wow what hate you have for God angel. He also predicted that we would be hated because of Him. Thanks for making that prophecy a reality.
i have no hate in me. I feel the same way about Zeus, Yahweh, Bigfoot, Thor, Allah, The Easter Bunny and The Loch Ness Monster. I have not seen sufficient evidence to prove that they exist in anything other than stories.

i asked for NO vague bullsh#t not more of the same vague bullsh#t.
antiatheist

Seminole, OK

#7912 May 23, 2014
AngelAngle wrote:
<quoted text>
i have no hate in me. I feel the same way about Zeus, Yahweh, Bigfoot, Thor, Allah, The Easter Bunny and The Loch Ness Monster. I have not seen sufficient evidence to prove that they exist in anything other than stories.
i asked for NO vague bullsh#t not more of the same vague bullsh#t.
oh really? Do you also visit the bigfoot and Zeus forums and get overly emotional about them as well?

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#7913 May 23, 2014
OKC wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I totally agree with everything you say. There is another side of this that we haven't touched on. "Private Prisons" or "for-profit prison". We talked about this is Sociology Class at OSU and it was a real eye opener. The stock market is banking on people who try to stand up for their rights and if I recall correctly there is supposedly a thing called 3 strikes and you are out? Just wrap your mind around an industry that profits from you being incarcerated.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-indus...
And what about the seatbelt law... I can ride a motorcycle without a helmet (or a seatbelt) but if I'm in a big truck with airbags I damn well better have a seatbelt on.
Studying the work of Seneca though, its been known for a long time that there are just some fights that arent worth fight (at this time at least) so I just put my seatbelt on and give a clean UA so i can keep my job.
Do you mean Seneca the Roman Stoic philosopher dude? I'm ... uh ... not really a student of his work. I suppose you can say that I have adopted a 'stoic' outlook regarding UA's and life in general.

As for 'private' or 'for profit' prison systems ... sounds kind of Sci-Fi, apocalyptic scary. The 'love of money' and 'root of all evil' is pretty spot on, despite it's biblical origins.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#7914 May 23, 2014
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
I've been working for more than 40 years, and never asked to take a drug test. I think they are a legitimate thing for worker's whose jobs are such that trying to do them while impaired creates a danger to the public or to co-workers, but completely unnecessary for the vast majority of workers. A file clerk who misfiles while stoned is not a workplace menace. A secretary typing the same sentence over and over because she keeps losing her place is unproductive, but not dangerous.
The tests are not so reliable. Eating a poppy seed bagel can and has resulted in people testing positive for opiate use. Taking sudafed for a cold or allergy can lead to a false positive for meth.(The reason you can't buy more than a limited quantity of sudafed at any one time is because it is a major component in manufacturing meth. THC from marijuana is fat-soluble, and stays in the body for over a month.
Beyond all of that, it is overly intrusive and derogates from human dignity and freedom. If you choose to work for employers who have no respect for your privacy, that's your choice. Insisting that your choice be imposed on others just to make you feel better about it is irrational.
In most cases, private industry adopts things like this out of lawyerphobia. They fear that if they don't take every possible precaution against every possible scenario where someone might assert liability, they will be sued into starvation. In the case of governments, I don't believe any government anywhere has every refused an accretion of power."Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding." Louis Brandeis, US Supreme Court Justice.
Between exaggerated fear of liability lawsuits and vastly exaggerated fear of terrorism, private industry and the government have successfully menaced the American public with an endless series of hobgoblins, kept us clamoring to be led to safety, and made a mockery of the Bill of Rights.
If the Florida results are typical then imposing the tests on Welfare recipients would certainly be irrational and I'll just have to get over it. The study 'flies in the face' of what I believe and/or have been led to believe. I'm certainly not a campaigner or champion of the concept (drug testing welfare recipients) either way, so I have to say I need more data. Given the expense, I doubt more data will be forthcoming. Perhaps we need another trial or two before we jump to conclusions. I hope to 'retire' early next year, at which time the whole matter will become 'moot' as far as I'm concerned.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#7915 May 23, 2014
So What wrote:
I should have written RHill instead of Amused.
I wish to express my deepest an heart felt apologies if this mistake has rendered anyone emotionally useless, since some on this forum seem to be sensitive to verbal jabs.----So What
I was pretty much 'emotionally useless' long before your errant post! I consider it a compliment to be confused with someone as astute as Amused. I pretty much go along with Amused post regarding drug testing in schools. I'll also reiterate that if I were suddenly crowned King, there would be no drug testing anywhere in my kingdom save for those folks who have proven themselves threats to society in some form or another.

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#7916 May 23, 2014
Don wrote:
<quoted text>
DAH maybe just maybe that's that point she was trying to make! If GOD doesn't exist why the hatred? If he really believes that then GOD would mean nothing and have no effect on his world.
Think about before you post again.
Since the preponderance of the world 'believes in a god' and the world is in a sad state of affairs ... it is quite the opposite. Who, what and why people 'believe' in a god means a lot and has a great deal of effect on EVERYBODY'S world. We do not separate ourselves from the ebb and flow of Human Experience by virtue of our Atheism. Our voices are a whisper, your deafness a SHOUT!

“Blue Collar Philosopher”

Since: Nov 08

Texas, USA

#7917 May 23, 2014
antiatheist wrote:
<quoted text>
oh really? Do you also visit the bigfoot and Zeus forums and get overly emotional about them as well?
Check the records ... Zeus and Bigfoot believers don't monkey around with our Constitutional rights.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Washington court rules against florist in gay w... 4 min Retribution 45
News "Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 27 min Subduction Zone 57,715
News Nonsense of a high order: The confused world of... 1 hr IB DaMann 1,744
News Atheism, for Good Reason, Fears Questions (Jun '09) 2 hr IB DaMann 27,214
News Why Do Atheists Ridicule Christianity? (May '11) 3 hr Hedonist Heretic 11,912
Progress? 3 hr Hedonist Heretic 63
The Dumbest Thing Posted by a Godbot (Jun '10) 6 hr Hedonist Heretic 5,939
More from around the web