'Good without a god': Faces of atheism in Oklahoma

Jul 5, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: NewsOK.com

Rebecca Vitsmun is shown during an interview with a CNN reporter shortly after the May 20 tornado that destroyed her Moore home.

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5,061 - 5,080 of 7,541 Comments Last updated May 29, 2014

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#5380
Feb 4, 2014
 

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antiatheist wrote:
You should be ashamed iseeyou. Your day will come eventually.
You think I should be ashamed because If I believed in a god I would expect more from it than its own creation???

That is most certainly nothing for me to be ashamed of sir. Shame on you for worshiping something that supposedly created us in its own image, but wants you to worship it.

Since: Aug 13

Dallas, TX

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#5381
Feb 4, 2014
 

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antiatheist wrote:
interested mom you are making the mistake of believing these atheists are honest people just seeking the truth. They hate God and they hate themselves. They aren't looking for answers they are only looking ways to persecute Christians. Thats all they are interested in
If we were really such hateful people wouldnt we spend a lot of time on Christian forums talking $hit about them?

How can you speak for ALL atheists when you admit that you dont know very many? or many gays?

Basically all the people you spend most of your time bad mouthing, by your own account, you have had zero or very little contact with these people at all.

Again, you have done an outstanding job of making out case for us.
Amused

Lowell, MA

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#5383
Feb 4, 2014
 

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JPL wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Why do you think GOD did nothing to 'save' the Jews? In the Holy Bible it also recounts GOD leaving the Jews in bondage in Egypt as slaves enduring great hardship. So there is clearly a foundation precept established of GOD withdrawing aid.
2. Hitler claiming to be a Christian should be discarded as the ravings of a maniac. I would submit that those involved in the systematic murder of Jews are not representative of a Christ like or 'Christian' way of life.
3. According to the Bible Jews are the 'chosen' people and they turned their backs on GOD not once but many times over generations. In the Bible is clearly states the Jews will know great trials and tribulations for turning their backs on GOD and engaging in behaviors against GOD's laws. One could also argue that historical fact is evidence of GOD's declaration and edict for withdrawing his blessings and grace to a rebellious people.
4. No argument on morality issues and other more ancient cultures it's interesting to note how similar cultures are which were not supposed to have contact with one another including the architecture. How did that happen?
5. Yes long before Jesus Christ and his followers but not predating GOD who according to the Bible has always existed the Alpha and Omega.
1. 6,000,000 are dead, and not from natural causes. Hardly the kind of saving one would expect from an omnipotent being.
2. No true Scotsman fallacy. They couldn't be real christians when they were acting badly because by your definition, no true christian would act that way. By that rule, the crusaders who cut a bloody swath through the Middle East were not true christians, nor were the conquistadores, the torturers working for the Inquisition, witch hunters, etc. History is replete with 2,000 years of examples of 'unchristian' behavior by people who proclaimed themselves to be christian, while doing bad things, often in the name of their religion.
3. The historical record is also equally consistent with there being no god, no covenant with the Jews, and the Jews being subject to exactly the same amount of good and bad fortune as any other nation.
4. The evidence is as consistent with the ideas of morality being inherent in human beings as with cultures being in contact with each other. Humans are social. From the dawn of time, we have lived in tribes or other groups, hunted communally and cooperatively, defended each other within the group, etc. The behaviors we see in the commandments, 5 precepts, etc. are all behaviors one would expect in such groupings. Not killing, not stealing, not being sexually unfaithful are all behaviors that promote group cohesion, and hence group survival, while their opposites would destabilize social groups, threatening survival. I have no doubt that these behaviors are hard-wired into our consciousness.
5. You assume the existence of an always-existing god, without proffering any proof for that proposition. The existence of that god is not a necessary pre-condition for the existence of these common elements of morality, and merely one of many possible explanations.
antiatheist

Seminole, OK

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#5384
Feb 4, 2014
 

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iseeyou should be ashamed of herself. Its like denying that you even have parents. How in the heck do you think we all got here? Oh thats right you believe we "evolved" lol

Since: Aug 13

Dallas, TX

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#5385
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antiatheist wrote:
iseeyou should be ashamed of herself. Its like denying that you even have parents. How in the heck do you think we all got here? Oh thats right you believe we "evolved" lol
Anti, are you gonna watch the Bill Nye/ Ken Ham debate tonight? my atheist group and I are having a viewing party, you are more than welcome to come.

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#5386
Feb 4, 2014
 

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antiatheist wrote:
iseeyou should be ashamed of herself. Its like denying that you even have parents. How in the heck do you think we all got here? Oh thats right you believe we "evolved" lol
Lol...well that's a horrible example. Although I never saw god create us or my mother birth me, at least I have DNA evidence that my mother gave birth to me and that I belong to my mom and dad lol....and yes, I know we evolved ;-)
JPL

United States

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Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
1. 6,000,000 are dead, and not from natural causes. Hardly the kind of saving one would expect from an omnipotent being.
2. No true Scotsman fallacy. They couldn't be real christians when they were acting badly because by your definition, no true christian would act that way. By that rule, the crusaders who cut a bloody swath through the Middle East were not true christians, nor were the conquistadores, the torturers working for the Inquisition, witch hunters, etc. History is replete with 2,000 years of examples of 'unchristian' behavior by people who proclaimed themselves to be christian, while doing bad things, often in the name of their religion.
3. The historical record is also equally consistent with there being no god, no covenant with the Jews, and the Jews being subject to exactly the same amount of good and bad fortune as any other nation.
4. The evidence is as consistent with the ideas of morality being inherent in human beings as with cultures being in contact with each other. Humans are social. From the dawn of time, we have lived in tribes or other groups, hunted communally and cooperatively, defended each other within the group, etc. The behaviors we see in the commandments, 5 precepts, etc. are all behaviors one would expect in such groupings. Not killing, not stealing, not being sexually unfaithful are all behaviors that promote group cohesion, and hence group survival, while their opposites would destabilize social groups, threatening survival. I have no doubt that these behaviors are hard-wired into our consciousness.
5. You assume the existence of an always-existing god, without proffering any proof for that proposition. The existence of that god is not a necessary pre-condition for the existence of these common elements of morality, and merely one of many possible explanations.
1. Again from the Holy Bible GOD would withdraw his blessings and favor when people would turn their backs on him. Lesson: Live the rules and be blessed and in favor don't and you won't be in his grace and favor.

2. A person can claim anything they are willing to lie over but that doesn't make it true now does it? Look to politicians today and lets use a current example: President Obama promised Americans time and time again they could keep their healthcare plan and their doctors. No matter he is the president of the USA and he promised it repeatedly for years still didn't make it the truth now did it? The word Christian 'means Christ-like' we have examples of who Christ was in the Holy Bible, Jesus Christ is the example of the Christian we should embrace his words/deeds and should endeavor to be like. Hitler and the Nazis are nothing like Jesus Christ or what a Christian should be.

3. No I disagree. I believe the historical record shows great suffering of the Jews which continues to this day and according to the Holy Bible will continue until his return. Having said that it does not mean the Jews are the only one to suffer great tribulations on the contrary the Holy Bible speaks of much suffering for the sinful world.

4. This we can agree on as the necessary ingredients to a stable society one would have to wonder why we as a group continue to engage in behavior that conflict with the unity and survival of our species.

5. The concept that GOD has always existed is hard for our limited understanding to comprehend the concept seems impossible to us. If there is a higher power or GOD who create our universe as well as mankind there is so much we don't have a clue on much more to be learned. According to the Holy Bible this is so. But not only the Holy Bible many other cultures have the same basic understanding of a creator a divine being.
antiatheist

Seminole, OK

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#5388
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I won't waste my time with a debate about something that I already know. I stopped listening to Bill Nye years ago.

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#5389
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antiatheist wrote:
I won't waste my time with a debate about something that I already know. I stopped listening to Bill Nye years ago.
Lets just keep it at, don't waste your time...Bill Nye has nothing to do with this ;-)
antiatheist

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#5390
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debates like that mean nothing. Atheists are going to believe everything Nye says and vice versa. Its simply entertainment for some people.
Richardfs

Australia

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#5391
Feb 4, 2014
 

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antiatheist wrote:
You act as if you know God...which you obviously don't. You should be ashamed.
How do you get to know some one who is not real?

Don't they lock up people who talk to imaginary friends?
antiatheist

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Richard you would have to lock up 90% of the worlds population. Sorry, you are a vast minority for good reason.

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#5395
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antiatheist wrote:
debates like that mean nothing. Atheists are going to believe everything Nye says and vice versa. Its simply entertainment for some people.
Lol...wow...I guess I'm not involved with the Nye followers lol. Sometimes you are very entertaining.
WarForOil

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#5396
Feb 5, 2014
 

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Amused wrote:
<quoted text>

1. 6,000,000 are dead, and not from natural causes.
Hardly the kind of saving one would expect from an omnipotent being.
.
The assumption is that you're referring to Hitler.
Hitler wasn't an omnipotent being, he was Catholic.

At least blame the correct religion.
If he'd been Lutheran, it would have been 12M.
antiatheist

Seminole, OK

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#5398
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Only extreme people would even try to call Hitler a Christian.

Since: Aug 13

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#5399
Feb 5, 2014
 

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antiatheist wrote:
I won't waste my time with a debate about something that I already know. I stopped listening to Bill Nye years ago.
but you are still a follower of Ken Ham right?
Amused

Lowell, MA

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#5401
Feb 5, 2014
 

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WarForOil wrote:
<quoted text>
The assumption is that you're referring to Hitler.
Hitler wasn't an omnipotent being, he was Catholic.
At least blame the correct religion.
If he'd been Lutheran, it would have been 12M.
Perhaps, but the Lutherans wouldn't have operated the ratline that allowed so many nazi higher-ups to escape. Perhaps the ratline was just a dress rehersal for the later operations to protect pedophile priests.
JPL

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#5402
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The 'Rat Line' was real and it was supported by the Catholic Church. Many Nazis escaped to South America or other countries with the help and duplicity of the Roman Catholic Church. Protecting pedophiles is another disturbing fact the Roman Catholic Church was involved in. Neither can be attributed to Christian behavior or Christ-like behavior since that behavior is the opposite of what a true Christian or follower of Christ would do in personal behavior.

The Holy Bible also warns about false prophets and churches which are rotten with sin and engage in vile sins against GOD. The Holy Bible warns of the harlot church which is a prostitute and sins against GOD's commandments. Some today will publicly say it's the Roman Catholic Church the Holy Bible is pertaining to, others scholars will say that the Holy Bible is meaning all sins allowed, fostered or committed by any member of a church is a false prophet or false church of GOD. Examples of false prophets and false Churches would be Jim Jones the founder of a church whose members perished from poisoning and gunshot in the Jamestown Massacre in Guyana and David Koresh of Waco, TX compound where so many died a horrible death of fire and suffocation both men had understanding of biblical scriptures but through manipulations and their own perversions they corrupted the meaning and intent of the Holy Bible to satisfy their need for adoration, power and sexual urges.

Mankind is full of sinful behavior, Christians have to choose to turn away from sinful behavior forsaking carnal sinful behavior. The Holy Bible admonishes us we will be held accountable for the knowledge we have. Those who do not possess the knowledge will be look upon differently than for those who have the knowledge and choose to continue with sinful behavior.
JPL

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#5404
Feb 5, 2014
 

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Thinking wrote:
Far safer to ignore scripture then.
<quoted text>
Remember "free will"? The choice has always been yours and yours alone. Interesting thing about knowledge you can ignore it or accept and use it to your overall benefit.
JPL

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#5406
Feb 5, 2014
 

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Thinking wrote:
No.
The bible says there was no knowledge of good and evil until Adam and Eve ate from the tree.
So how come your god is punishing generations of children yet unborn for his own screw up?
<quoted text>
You said No and I accept your refusal. Any other discussion is a moot point isn't it?

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