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Since: Oct 12

High Point, NC

#1 Oct 26, 2012
I'll start off by stating that I am a Christian, my beliefs include Trinitarian Monotheism, Young Earth Creationism, and Political Conservatism (Maybe Verging on Libertarian). I just wanted to spark strictly discussion or a form of mild debate; just to ask questions, get a glimpse on the belief of Atheism, hopefully give strong viable evidence for my own beliefs. Not to 100% prove God's existence or force anyone to believe what I do. Thank-you

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#2 Oct 27, 2012
Then you should start by understanding that atheism isn't a belief system. It is nothing more than a category at the same level, and with the same generality as "theism".

Theism is a category for everybody who believes in the existence of one or more deities.

Atheism (literally not-theism) is a category for everybody who does NOT believe in one of more deities.

Theists claim that there is a god; atheists do not.

Atheists are often challenged to prove that there is no god; but this misses the point. Atheists claim god is unproved, not disproved.

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#3 Oct 27, 2012
But as atheism is nothing more than a category, it tells you absolutely nothing about who I am nor my philosophies.

I am a Humanist in that I believe in the human potential to do good, grow, thrive,...

Theologically I am also noncognitivist (aka, ignostic) in that I do not think there has ever really been a definition of the properties of the word "god" such that any determination of existence can even be considered.

Since: Oct 12

High Point, NC

#4 Oct 27, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
But as atheism is nothing more than a category, it tells you absolutely nothing about who I am nor my philosophies.

I am a Humanist in that I believe in the human potential to do good, grow, thrive,...

Theologically I am also noncognitivist (aka, ignostic) in that I do not think there has ever really been a definition of the properties of the word "god" such that any determination of existence can even be considered.
Thanks for that definition! Actually that is exactly what I see Atheism as. I just used "belief system" due to lack of a better way of putting it. Cause I would assume it perfectly true for an Atheist to say "I *believe* that no form of higher deity exists."

Unlike most other Christians you will probably encounter, I can admit that God has not been proven 100%. Yet I can say that through experience, when studied properly, thoroughly and with an open mind, Christianity can have valid explanations through science, reason, and other means. For example, I could be wrong, but reason/logic itself is pretty solid evidence for God. I haven't found a reason for Big Bang or Evolution to create a non-physical, non-tangible thing such as logic, that indisputably exists.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#5 Oct 27, 2012
Religion = superstition
theology = mythology
blasphemy = satire

Since: Oct 12

High Point, NC

#6 Oct 27, 2012
EdSed wrote:
Religion = superstition
theology = mythology
blasphemy = satire
Sir I'm not to sure that statement holds any real viable foundation and you're so called satire is not going to prove your point or present that you, as an atheist I assume, hold any credibility and that's just a terrible portrayal of Atheists everywhere.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#7 Oct 27, 2012
JordanUTT wrote:
<quoted text>
Sir I'm not to sure that statement holds any real viable foundation and you're so called satire is not going to prove your point or present that you, as an atheist I assume, hold any credibility and that's just a terrible portrayal of Atheists everywhere.
No, they were just statements of fact.

Since: Oct 12

High Point, NC

#10 Oct 27, 2012
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>No, they were just statements of fact.
But without solid definite proof then that cannot be held as fact. You have provided no evidence or proof. So doesn't that mean that, even in Atheist viewpoint, that your statement can't possibly be viewed as "fact"???
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#12 Oct 27, 2012
JordanUTT wrote:
<quoted text>
But without solid definite proof then that cannot be held as fact. You have provided no evidence or proof. So doesn't that mean that, even in Atheist viewpoint, that your statement can't possibly be viewed as "fact"???
Jordan, it isn't complicated. Children can understand. There are lots of religions..
http://www.godchecker.com/
Pick one.

From a Christian's point of view, all the others are superstitions. People see talk of Zues and Thor as mythologies but there is no more proof of an Abrahamic god(s) than of Roman ones. It follows that, as there is no scientific and generally accepted defined and proven god(s), religions are the last bastion of superstition and one man's theology is another man's mythology.

Equally clearly, blasphemy against a religion in which one doesn't believe is satire,(e.g The Innocence of Muslims, or Life of Brian).

I don't care if you think you, personally, think you have proof of an Abrahamic god(s). You sound as if you reject evolution in preference to mere creationism too?! Speaks for itself.

I think I'm a positive advert for atheism and you are a negative one for religionism.
JMHO

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#13 Oct 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Posted else where by derek4
From: The Columbus Dispatch:
February 4, 2011
Church, without God
“Stan Bradley likes Bible stories, admires Martin Luther and uses expressions such as 'heavens, no.'
The Lithopolis man is president of a local congregation and rarely misses a Sunday service. Occasionally, he goes to his wife's church instead.
For these and other reasons, Bradley considers himself religious.”
He is also an atheist.
continued:
“Like Bradley, some atheists participate in organized religion for its social and psychological benefits.”
continued:
“Churches are great places to find friends, support and youth education, so nonbelievers and believers alike join congregations to fill those needs, he said.
He has spoken to elderly and sick people who can no longer go to church and they say they most miss the feeling of community.
Recent research from Harvard University and the University of Wisconsin backs him up. It found that religious people tend to be happier than nonreligious people, not because of belief but because of the friendships found at church.”
http://www.dispatch.com/content/stories/faith...
“religious people tend to be happier than nonreligious people”[I have said this all along, and my posts are still on the board to confirm it. Now you hear it straight from the atheist, lol.]
Just because someone makes a claim about him or herself does not mean that it applies to all others.
That's what you can't seem to get.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#14 Oct 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Posted earlier by derek4
The Atheist's Bible: An Illustrious Collection of Irreverent Thoughts [Hardcover]
Joan Konner (Author)
3.6 out of 5 stars See all reviews (29 customer reviews)
List Price:$16.99
Price:$11.55 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details
Deal Price:
You Save:$5.44 (32%)
Only 4 left in stock (more on the way).
http://www.amazon.com/The-Atheists-Bible-Illu...
[Wow – only 4 left – MAN – those atheists love their bibles!!!- get your copy now before they run out!!!!]
I assume you missed my earlier post that links to the hand gunners bible, the gardeners bible, the reloaders bible.....

Do you now consider all of those things a religion because they have a bible?

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#15 Oct 27, 2012
JordanUTT wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for that definition! Actually that is exactly what I see Atheism as. I just used "belief system" due to lack of a better way of putting it. Cause I would assume it perfectly true for an Atheist to say "I *believe* that no form of higher deity exists."
Unlike most other Christians you will probably encounter, I can admit that God has not been proven 100%. Yet I can say that through experience, when studied properly, thoroughly and with an open mind, Christianity can have valid explanations through science, reason, and other means. For example, I could be wrong, but reason/logic itself is pretty solid evidence for God. I haven't found a reason for Big Bang or Evolution to create a non-physical, non-tangible thing such as logic, that indisputably exists.
So what percentage would you say god is proven?

I am interested in how you feel that logic and reason are solid evidence for god. As for your comment that you do not see a reason for the big band or evolution to have created logic.... Evolution and the big bang are not claimed to have created intangibles. Logic is a process of deduction that is necessary for progress. It is intuitive in some cases, but not "ceated" by an organic process. In other words, it was and is necessary to progress. If we want to continue in this line of thought, it could be suggested that the refinement of logic was possible through survival of the fittest...Those who pocessed the better logic skills progressed(survived) better than those who lacked it.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#16 Oct 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Not Exactly true Hedonist. You'll find that most atheist on these boards think that agnostic and atheist are the same thing there not.
athe·ism\ˈā-thē-ˌi-zəm\
noun
1 archaic : ungodliness, wickedness
2 a : a disbelief in the existence of deity
b : the doctrine that there is no deity
athe·ist\ˈā-thē-ist\
noun
: one who believes that there is no deity
I would disagree here. I would say that most atheists on these boards consider atheism and agnostism different. I have not actually performed a survey, but it seems that way to me.
KJV

United States

#17 Oct 27, 2012
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>I would disagree here. I would say that most atheists on these boards consider atheism and agnostism different. I have not actually performed a survey, but it seems that way to me.
You've left a few of your puppets alone for too long don't ya think?

Since: Oct 12

Johnson City, TN

#18 Oct 27, 2012
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>Jordan, it isn't complicated. Children can understand. There are lots of religions..
http://www.godchecker.com/
Pick one.

From a Christian's point of view, all the others are superstitions. People see talk of Zues and Thor as mythologies but there is no more proof of an Abrahamic god(s) than of Roman ones. It follows that, as there is no scientific and generally accepted defined and proven god(s), religions are the last bastion of superstition and one man's theology is another man's mythology.

Equally clearly, blasphemy against a religion in which one doesn't believe is satire,(e.g The Innocence of Muslims, or Life of Brian).

I don't care if you think you, personally, think you have proof of an Abrahamic god(s). You sound as if you reject evolution in preference to mere creationism too?! Speaks for itself.

I think I'm a positive advert for atheism and you are a negative one for religionism.
JMHO
I don't claim to have proof that God exists, when did I ever say that I had proof? I simply just have evidence, just as you only have evidence for evolution. Neither of these beliefs have "proof" and I do not reject evolution altogether, I reject the theory that evolution is the process by which all things came to be. Am I not being direct?

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#19 Oct 27, 2012
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
You've left a few of your puppets alone for too long don't ya think?
Is this your intelligent response?
I guess when you have nothing to offer, the above is all you can do.
Pathetic.

Since: Oct 12

Johnson City, TN

#20 Oct 27, 2012
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>So what percentage would you say god is proven?

I am interested in how you feel that logic and reason are solid evidence for god. As for your comment that you do not see a reason for the big band or evolution to have created logic.... Evolution and the big bang are not claimed to have created intangibles. Logic is a process of deduction that is necessary for progress. It is intuitive in some cases, but not "ceated" by an organic process. In other words, it was and is necessary to progress. If we want to continue in this line of thought, it could be suggested that the refinement of logic was possible through survival of the fittest...Those who pocessed the better logic skills progressed(survived) better than those who lacked it.
Well that's actually a matter I've addressed several times. I think God is "proven" 0% to prove something would mean it would have to be 100% indisputable, yet atheists dispute against Him all the time. To prove Him I would have to grab Him and show him to you and let you shake hands. I can't do that because I believe God exists outside this realm of time, that he's intangible, unnatural, rather He is supernatural. I can only simply provide strong reasonable evidence and hope you CHOOSE to see it as just that, reasonable.

Which brings me back to my next point on logic. You stated that evolution could not and did not create logic, which is awesome cause that's what I'm saying. I believe God created it and gave it to mankind to use. Which lines up with your belief, in a way, by stating that it was created by an inorganic being I.e. God. So then how do you believe logic came to exist?

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#21 Oct 27, 2012
JordanUTT wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't claim to have proof that God exists, when did I ever say that I had proof? I simply just have evidence, just as you only have evidence for evolution. Neither of these beliefs have "proof" and I do not reject evolution altogether, I reject the theory that evolution is the process by which all things came to be. Am I not being direct?
I am always interested when someone claims to have evidence of the existance of god. What real evidence do you have? I am truly curious.
I understand that you don't buy the primordial soup thing, you are admittedly a creationist, and that's all fine and well. But if you go down the slippery slope that says "we don't know how it all started, so that is evidence of a creator, you're going to hear things like "there was a time when we didn't know where lightning came from, and thought it was evidence of god", so get ready.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

#22 Oct 27, 2012
JordanUTT wrote:
<quoted text>
Well that's actually a matter I've addressed several times. I think God is "proven" 0% to prove something would mean it would have to be 100% indisputable, yet atheists dispute against Him all the time. To prove Him I would have to grab Him and show him to you and let you shake hands. I can't do that because I believe God exists outside this realm of time, that he's intangible, unnatural, rather He is supernatural. I can only simply provide strong reasonable evidence and hope you CHOOSE to see it as just that, reasonable.
Which brings me back to my next point on logic. You stated that evolution could not and did not create logic, which is awesome cause that's what I'm saying. I believe God created it and gave it to mankind to use. Which lines up with your belief, in a way, by stating that it was created by an inorganic being I.e. God. So then how do you believe logic came to exist?
Ok, I get it.. No proof, fine. I addressed the evidence thing in my last post. As for your belief that god is supernatural. That is convienien, but seems to contradict what is in your Bible. The Bible states that humans are created in gods image, so that would indicate that god is indeed a tangible being. The Bible also says that god has interacted directly with people in the past. That would seem to negate the idea that he is outside of our realm of time and space and is intangible, clearly he is a tangible being.

Logic.... I did not say logic was created by an inorganic "being" Logic is a concept/philosophy, it is truly intangible, but can still be defined...ie: Definition of LOGIC
1a (1): a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning (From Merriam Webster)

So it is reasonable to say that it's fomalization is the product of man just as any philosophy is. But logic itself is somewhat intuitive. In other words, you can see a child using logic to get something he or she wants, and they are not aware they are using logic(On a side note, monkeys do the same thing), when logic is refined to a science, it may have to be taught and it becomes a "science". I do not find any of tis to be evidence of a creator, but rather, as I mentioned before, a necessity for progress.

Since: Oct 12

High Point, NC

#23 Oct 27, 2012
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>Ok, I get it.. No proof, fine. I addressed the evidence thing in my last post. As for your belief that god is supernatural. That is convienien, but seems to contradict what is in your Bible. The Bible states that humans are created in gods image, so that would indicate that god is indeed a tangible being. The Bible also says that god has interacted directly with people in the past. That would seem to negate the idea that he is outside of our realm of time and space and is intangible, clearly he is a tangible being.

Logic.... I did not say logic was created by an inorganic "being" Logic is a concept/philosophy, it is truly intangible, but can still be defined...ie: Definition of LOGIC
1a (1): a science that deals with the principles and criteria of validity of inference and demonstration : the science of the formal principles of reasoning (From Merriam Webster)

So it is reasonable to say that it's fomalization is the product of man just as any philosophy is. But logic itself is somewhat intuitive. In other words, you can see a child using logic to get something he or she wants, and they are not aware they are using logic(On a side note, monkeys do the same thing), when logic is refined to a science, it may have to be taught and it becomes a "science". I do not find any of tis to be evidence of a creator, but rather, as I mentioned before, a necessity for progress.
Ah yes created in His image. What a great verse! Well see your interpretation of that, only assuming, came from either simply reading that verse and nothing more or it being told to you by one of my fellow believers, who like most all other Christians, misinterpret that verse as well. See when the Bible says "in His image" it isn't referring to God's physical form, I believe He (initially) has none, that verse refers to image as in His likeness. He created man to be like (like being defined at similar NOT exact) God Himself, as in to have a sense of love and to desire something to love. And also that passage refers to image as in God's image (God's being possessive) meaning that He had an image that He wanted to make us did, which He did. We all look different physically which would mean God, if tangible and with form, would need to look like everyone at once.

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