The problem of evil and hate

There are 20 comments on the The Gleaner story from Oct 20, 2013, titled The problem of evil and hate. In it, The Gleaner reports that:

"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Gleaner.

“If It Is Possible”

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#267 Nov 11, 2013
If, in the course of a thousand or two thousand years, science arrives at the necessity of renewing its points of view, that will not mean that science is a liar. Science cannot lie, for it's always striving, according to the momentary state of knowledge, to deduce what is true. When it makes a mistake, it does so in good faith. It's Christianity that's the liar. It's in perpetual conflict with itself.

http://todayinsci.com/H/Hitler_Adolf/HitlerAd...

“If It Is Possible”

Since: Mar 13

It Will Likely Happen

#269 Nov 11, 2013
Look at that "founded on science" That's why you all keep comparing Hitler to Christianity. Because he was really a science man.

Adolf Hitler said repeatedly that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science.

Hitler said that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science.[21] In a diary entry of 28 December 1939, Joseph Goebbels wrote that "the Fuhrer passionately rejects any thought of founding a religion. He has no intention of becoming a priest. His sole exclusive role is that of a politician."[22] In Hitler's political relations dealing with religion he readily adopted a strategy "that suited his immediate political purposes."[23]

Christianity remained the dominant religion in Germany through the Nazi period, and its influence over Germans displeased the Nazi hierarchy. Evans wrote that Hitler believed that in the long run National Socialism and religion would not be able to co-exist, and stressed repeatedly that Nazism was a secular ideology, founded on modern science: "Science, he declared, would easily destroy the last remaining vestiges of superstition". Germany could not tolerate the intervention of foreign influences such as the Pope and "Priests, he said, were 'black bugs','abortions in black cassocks'".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi...

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#270 Nov 11, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church...", yet "he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him"
You know, truth be told, I have no doubt Hitler was being the consummate politician, over-exaggerating his 'spirituality', LYING actually, in order to control the masses. Perhaps Christianity was a tool Hitler used to do just that.

The question then is: Why did Hitler pretend to invoke Christianity and God in the first place?

Answer: Hitler didn't PERSONALLY murder 6 million Jews (not to mention millions of other non-Jewish peoples).

Nope. His fine Christian audience of the German populace and military personnel who WERE predominantly&#8206; Christian were more than willing to carry out the 'Christian' atrocities.

https://www.google.com/search...

"Gott Mit Uns" (God with us?)

The German peoples have had a LONG history of vehement anti-Semitic feelings.

LCNLin might be aware of this, as he has not (yet) responded to my post to him about Martin Luther (founder of the Protestant Reformation in 1517).

Per Wiki: "On the Jews and Their Lies"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_...

"In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[1] Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine,"[2] and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".[3]

In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare against Christians and Christianity. Following this exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are -

1.for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2.for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3.for their religious writings to be taken away;
4.for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5.for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6.for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7.for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave laborers.[4]

The prevailing scholarly view[5] since the Second World War is that the treatise exercised a major and persistent influence on Germany's attitude toward its Jewish citizens in the centuries between the Reformation and the Holocaust. Four hundred years after it was written, the Nazis displayed On the Jews and Their Lies during Nuremberg rallies, and the city of Nuremberg presented a first edition to Julius Streicher, editor of the Nazi newspaper Der Stürmer, the newspaper describing it as the most radically antisemitic tract ever published."

<<end cut/paste>>

So, assuming Hitler really had no sincere Christian intentions with his speeches (and we will never REALLY know), his AUDIENCE -- who were Christian -- had a built-in predisposition to do some decidedly UN-christian acts. Anti-Semitism that had been stewing for almost 400 years.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#271 Nov 11, 2013
replaytime wrote:
<quoted text>
"Amid his political associates in Berlin, Hitler made harsh pronouncements against the church...", yet "he conceived of the church as an instrument that could be useful to him"
You know, truth be told, I have no doubt Hitler was being the consummate politician, over-exaggerating his 'spirituality', LYING actually, in order to control the masses. Perhaps Christianity was a tool Hitler used to do just that.

The question then is: Why did Hitler pretend to invoke Christianity and God in the first place?

Answer: Hitler didn't PERSONALLY murder 6 million Jews (not to mention millions of other non-Jewish peoples).

Nope. His fine Christian audience of the German populace and military personnel who WERE predominantly&#8206; Christian were more than willing to carry out the 'Christian' atrocities.

https://www.google.com/search...

"Gott Mit Uns" (God with us?)

The German peoples have had a LONG history of vehement anti-Semitic feelings.

LCNLin might be aware of this, as he has not (yet) responded to my post to him about Martin Luther (founder of the Protestant Reformation in 1517).

Per Wiki: "On the Jews and Their Lies"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_the_Jews_and_...

"In the treatise, Luther describes Jews as a "base, whoring people, that is, no people of God, and their boast of lineage, circumcision, and law must be accounted as filth."[1] Luther wrote that they are "full of the devil's feces ... which they wallow in like swine,"[2] and the synagogue is an "incorrigible whore and an evil slut".[3]

In the first ten sections of the treatise, Luther expounds, at considerable length, upon his views concerning Jews and Judaism and how these compare against Christians and Christianity. Following this exposition, Section XI of the treatise advises Christians to carry out seven remedial actions. These are -

1.for Jewish synagogues and schools to be burned to the ground, and the remnants buried out of sight;
2.for houses owned by Jews to be likewise razed, and the owners made to live in agricultural outbuildings;
3.for their religious writings to be taken away;
4.for rabbis to be forbidden to preach, and to be executed if they do;
5.for safe conduct on the roads to be abolished for Jews;
6.for usury to be prohibited, and for all silver and gold to be removed and "put aside for safekeeping"; and
7.for the Jewish population to be put to work as agricultural slave laborers.[4]

The prevailing scholarly view[5] since the Second World War is that the treatise exercised a major and persistent influence on Germany's attitude toward its Jewish citizens in the centuries between the Reformation and the Holocaust. Four hundred years after it was written, the Nazis displayed On the Jews and Their Lies during Nuremberg rallies, and the city of Nuremberg presented a first edition to Julius Streicher, editor of the Nazi newspaper Der Stürmer, the newspaper describing it as the most radically antisemitic tract ever published."

<<end cut/paste>>

So, assuming Hitler really had no sincere Christian intentions with his speeches (and we will never REALLY know), his AUDIENCE -- who were Christian -- had a built-in predisposition to do some mighty UNchristian acts. Anti-Semitism that had been stewing for almost 400 years.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#272 Nov 11, 2013
Sorry about the double-tap.

It'll go away presently.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#273 Nov 11, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
Sorry about the double-tap.
It'll go away presently.
Hmm, it hasn't yet and it has been longer than a half an hour. Perhaps the latest "improvements" took away that self correction.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#274 Nov 11, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm, it hasn't yet and it has been longer than a half an hour. Perhaps the latest "improvements" took away that self correction.
Yeah. Sorry about that.

It was 10 minutes when the FIRST attempt failed to show, so I 're-tapped' the post.

Yup. THEN they BOTH showed up.

Story of my life.

:-/

“Maccullochella macquariensis”

Since: May 08

Melbourne, Australia

#275 Nov 11, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Hmm, it hasn't yet and it has been longer than a half an hour. Perhaps the latest "improvements" took away that self correction.
"Improvements" is not the first word that would occur to me...
Frank

Houston, TX

#276 Nov 11, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
Hehehe...
Well HEY there, cupcake!
Aint YOU the paragon of Christian love and tolerance?
Your attempt at playing the 'Tough Guy' is amusing.
FUTILE, but amusing.
BTW, the great non-Christian (including atheist) civilizations are spread all around the world.
Athei-Clowns always claim being wounded and wronged because the mean Christian wouldn't play fair because the meanie isn't harmless Christian. Go f uck yourself.

BTW jackhole, this isn't about me. Its about you dooshnozzles attempting to propagate a lie to advance your agenda.

As expected yall got curbstomped.

Since: Sep 08

Everett, WA

#277 Nov 11, 2013
Bluenose wrote:
<quoted text>
"Improvements" is not the first word that would occur to me...
Ergo the quotes around the word "Improvements" in my post.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#279 Nov 12, 2013
replaytime wrote:
Look at that "founded on science" That's why you all keep comparing Hitler to Christianity. Because he was really a science man.
Adolf Hitler said repeatedly that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science.
Hitler said that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science.[21] In a diary entry of 28 December 1939, Joseph Goebbels wrote that "the Fuhrer passionately rejects any thought of founding a religion. He has no intention of becoming a priest. His sole exclusive role is that of a politician."[22] In Hitler's political relations dealing with religion he readily adopted a strategy "that suited his immediate political purposes."[23]
Christianity remained the dominant religion in Germany through the Nazi period, and its influence over Germans displeased the Nazi hierarchy. Evans wrote that Hitler believed that in the long run National Socialism and religion would not be able to co-exist, and stressed repeatedly that Nazism was a secular ideology, founded on modern science: "Science, he declared, would easily destroy the last remaining vestiges of superstition". Germany could not tolerate the intervention of foreign influences such as the Pope and "Priests, he said, were 'black bugs','abortions in black cassocks'".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Nazi...
Known Creationist troll liar who can't admit hitler was inspired by his own cult. Denies evolution.

“Nihil curo de ista tua stulta ”

Since: May 08

Orlando

#280 Nov 12, 2013
Frank wrote:
<quoted text>
Athei-Clowns always claim being wounded and wronged because the mean Christian wouldn't play fair because the meanie isn't harmless Christian. Go f uck yourself.
BTW jackhole, this isn't about me. Its about you dooshnozzles attempting to propagate a lie to advance your agenda.
As expected yall got curbstomped.
And again you make Jesus proud!

And as far as science "propagating&#8206; a lie", you're out of your mind.
You would have us teach our children IN SCIENCE CLASS, the following AS FACT:

1. The Universe was created in 6 days 6000 years ago (including all living things as they currently exist).

2. A global flood wiped out all living things (despite no evidence of this has ever been seen, and ALL evidence being against it).

3. Talking snakes, talking donkeys, talking burning bushes, the sun 'standing still' in the sky for a day, a man living in the belly of a 'great fish' for 3 days.

4...... and the list goes on.

Now if YOU want to teach your children the above fantasy stories, have at it. The rest of us prefer reality.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#281 Nov 12, 2013
replaytime wrote:
Look at that "founded on science" That's why you all keep comparing Hitler to Christianity. Because he was really a science man.
Adolf Hitler said repeatedly that Nazism was a secular ideology founded on science.
Perfectly in line with creationism then.(shrug)

After all, fundies keep telling us that creationism is based on science, AND Hitler believed in God.

Of course all we need to do is point out that Nazi ideology was a fan of eugencics, something which flies right in the face of natural selection.

Remember that the whole invocation of Godwin's law the fundies use against evolution is because they don't actually HAVE any scientific arguments against it in the first place.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#282 Nov 12, 2013
Frank wrote:
<quoted text>
Athei-Clowns always claim being wounded and wronged because the mean Christian wouldn't play fair because the meanie isn't harmless Christian. Go f uck yourself.
BTW jackhole, this isn't about me. Its about you dooshnozzles attempting to propagate a lie to advance your agenda.
As expected yall got curbstomped.
Wow, talk about total destruction of the world's irony meters.

From a fundie living in a country that's 80-90% Christian and always complaining about the mean old "atheists" for pointing out that creationists are doing their darndest to ruin public school edication and install an un-Constitutional theocracy where it's One Nation Under God and anyone who don't like it can get the f ck outta the country.(shrug)
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#283 Nov 12, 2013
Kong_ wrote:
<quoted text>
You know, truth be told, I have no doubt Hitler was being the consummate politician, over-exaggerating his 'spirituality', LYING actually, in order to control the masses. Perhaps Christianity was a tool Hitler used to do just that.
The question then is: Why did Hitler pretend to invoke Christianity and God in the first place?
Indeed. However while he certainly played the game of rhetoric to get what he wanted there was nothing in his writings to suggest he was an atheist. He had his issues with the church but he certainly appeared to believe in a God, which was ultimately derived from his Christian upbringing. There would be no logic in an atheist dictator wiping out the Jews and leaving the Christians alone - it's not as if Stalin or Lenin had that problem, despite the fact that half the population of the USSR were also orthodox Christian.

The fundies love to throw the likes of Hitler and Stalin all in one sweep. If their goals were so compatible then they could have joined up and taken over the world. But they didn't because the Nazi's *hated* the atheist socialist Communists. While no-one can read Hitler's mind, especially now he's dead, any claims that he was an atheist evolutionist were lies invented by creationists.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#284 Nov 12, 2013
Frank wrote:
Go ahead atheists, put on frilly things and go play with your colons knowing that their is no God to judge your bizarre behavior. You disgusting immature little creatures.
hahahahha
Kinda amusing, since creationists lie and sin all the time nd they think it's okay. All they need to do is say that's what their god likes or repent when they finally meet the Big Guy. No hypocrisy there of course!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#285 Nov 12, 2013
LCNLin wrote:
<quoted text>
the only fact you stated was that you could see Canada from your Home...
Must be Russian.

BWA HAAAA HAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#286 Nov 12, 2013
Frank wrote:
He even admitted that his goal was to prove that Christianity was false. If you're honest then do your homework and learn. If not then just continue to lie.
Hey Frankie. Obviously you're unaware of how these forums work, mate. When you make a claim you're supposed to back yourself up. That is either provide a valid linky that supports you or make a darn good and *coherent* argument.

Doesn't seem like they teach that to the good folk of Corpus Christi.

“Maccullochella macquariensis”

Since: May 08

Melbourne, Australia

#287 Nov 13, 2013
Subduction Zone wrote:
<quoted text>
Ergo the quotes around the word "Improvements" in my post.
Acknowledged and understood, I was just trying to agree and add emphasis with a little jocular repartee.
ol pa

Butler, PA

#288 Nov 29, 2013
This is nothing more than the babblings of hippies and thier kind. All the brains have been turned to mush by all drugs and dancing naked.

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