Atheism and cowardice

Nov 18, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Conservapedia

Have any of the New Atheists toured [[Islam]]ic countries giving lectures in which they condemn [[Allah]], [[Muhammad]], Islam, or Muslims? Have any of them debated Muslims in Islamic countries? Have any of them been interviewed on Al Jazeera? Have any of them written entire books in which they condemn Allah, Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims? Have they ... (more)

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“Life may be sweeter for this”

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Fennario

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#12397
Nov 2, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
Those are more powerful arguments against an uncreated god than they are against an uncreated universe containing uncreated cells with a uncreated consciences. After all, what is the most complex - and therefore least likely to exist uncreated - thing you can imagine?
number four wrote:
<quoted text>sorry , for being flippant ...Ans. God but , that fact remains "we exist" ...and , for weeks nay ! centuries the philosophies have asked "why ?" ...It seems to matter to a great many minds ..and , "most" of these great minds have asserted ?...Ans. God there can be only , one truth ...
If you can't see the flaw in that argument by yourself now, you probably never will. It's a nice illustration of the inability of faith based thinkers and evidence based thinkers to teach one another. We think in radically different ways.

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#12398
Nov 2, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
If you can't see the flaw in that argument by yourself now, you probably never will. It's a nice illustration of the inability of faith based thinkers and evidence based thinkers to teach one another. We think in radically different ways.
The thinking of the human mind is conditioned for madness, or habitual human dysfunction.

The Hindu calls it "maya", the veil of delusion. Buddhism calls it "dukkha", suffering, dissatisfaction, and misery.

If the history of humanity were a case history for one individual, the diagnosis would be paranoid delusional, or criminally insane. The root of the disease is the thinking human mind. This mind constantly seeks to achieve self-enhancement; strengthening itself through "thinking", and "knowledge", in order to improve its self-conception.

A few enlightened individuals, centuries ago in India, later in China, still later in the form of a carpenter of Galilea, learned of the need to transcend the illness of the mind.

They said look at how you live and treat others. All things of form, including thinking of forms, is vanity and ego.

There was no evidential basis for it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#12399
Nov 3, 2013
 
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Then you think that the values of a god can fall to the level that man is at, and the god still be perfect? I don't. I think that that is evidence that men wrote those words using the values of the time. That pattern is consistent with the idea that men from one of several extant cultures invented those ideas. I don't believe that a god would no have a chosen people that it favored.
number four wrote:
A) I think when we read the Old Testament ..God appears to be repulsive ..but, the Bible should not be interpreted in snippets ..and , the "trend" of the Old Testament ; I would argue ,is more good than bad ..
So you see the god of the Old Testament as repulsive when you read about him in snippets, but less so if you read straight through? And you think he should get credit for improvement over time? I can't agree with either of those, and don't find them relevant. As I said, I think that that is evidence that men wrote those words using the values of the time.

I asked, "Then you think that the values of a god can fall to the level that man is at, and the god still be perfect?" and you chose not to answer.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#12400
Nov 3, 2013
 
number four wrote:
B) The chosen race ?...How else could God show His providence , to the entire world , without raising an entire nation above all others ...( Is this what you asked ..?..the text was confusing .)
What I said was that I don't think a creator god would have a chosen people.

And you ask how else could a god show providence except to favor one group of people over another? That favor involved nonstop warfare and large scale genocide. Sorry, but I still don't see evidence of a great god in that, just evidence of petty, brutal, sadistic men projecting their values and worldview onto a fictitious god through which they speak.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What I see in your answer is that you give your god a pass for his failures, and blame his creations, the victims of those failures. I don't. Here are my values: if you are omniscient and omnipotent, and know in advance that the beings you will be creating will be sinning, then that is your will and your responsibility. If you then blame the creation and punish it with torture, you aren't a good, kind, loving, just or merciful god. You the petty, capricious, vindictive, narcissistic, sadistic and unforgiving god I just described.
number four wrote:
C) Not a judgement **fact** Adam and Eve brought sin into the world
You used the word "fault," which makes it a judgment: "Sin and separation from God, is the fault of our first parents .. not Gods." And as indicated, I find blaming the created for its nature an unfair judgment.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#12401
Nov 3, 2013
 

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number four wrote:
God uses all things for His greater glory ..
This is more evidence that the biblical god is just a projection of the minds of primitive men. Mature minds don't concern themselves with self-glorification.
number four wrote:
D) If God did not allow us to make mistakes ...would life really be worth living and experiencing ...surely , you did not want your own parents to hover over you and protect you from every mistake ...
I read this argument frequently as well. Yes, life would be worth living without mistakes. And my parent prepared me to live in a world over which they and I had relatively little control. Does that describe the biblical god's relationship with its creation as well? If my parents had been gods, they would have raised me differently.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#12402
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number four wrote:
E) the pains of Hell are meant for the Devil and his angels , if we follow Satan , well then we choose to go were he goes ..
"Meant for the Devil"? If an omnisicient god builds a torture pit that it knows it will be stalking with human souls, then the torture pit was meant for what it would be used for.

Besides, hell is a playground for a sadistic demon, not punishment, especially when you put the demon in charge. Satan was favored over man.

Why would a good and loving god throw a supernatural demon into our world and give it power to ruin lives here? Why isn't Satan a prisoner in hell?
number four wrote:
E1) consider it justice ; lets look at Qaddafi or Kim jong il , the torture , brutality , rape , starvation , crippling and death they cause to a nation and people under their care ...why , don't they deserve to eat from the same dish , they gleefully served to others ..
No. Torture is never a virtue.

And even if it were just in some cases, how do you justify eternal tirture for all unbelievers? You can't.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Forgiveness for what? Being born human? I celebrate that.
number four wrote:
F) you become culpable at the age of reason ( for most age 7 )..not , for just being born ..
Where does the bible say that? And culpable for what? Being human? Being born with a proclivity for violence, theft, and deceit?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#12403
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Buck Crick wrote:
The thinking of the human mind is conditioned for madness, or habitual human dysfunction. The Hindu calls it "maya", the veil of delusion. Buddhism calls it "dukkha", suffering, dissatisfaction, and misery. If the history of humanity were a case history for one individual, the diagnosis would be paranoid delusional, or criminally insane. The root of the disease is the thinking human mind.
I don't identify with your sentiments. And I don't think that maya and dukka are the same thing, nor are they the dark thing that you depict. I see you projecting your own demons onto the world.

Speaking of deception, you - the creator of Buck Crick - are a deceiver of sorts, by which I mean that I don't believe that your Internet persona is who you really are. But as I have explained in the past, I deal with that persona at face value because what else is there?

That persona has expressed shame and regret repeatedly. "You" live with that. I don't. As a result, I see a very different world than you do.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

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#12404
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Buck Crick wrote:
This mind constantly seeks to achieve self-enhancement; strengthening itself through "thinking", and "knowledge", in order to improve its self-conception.
Once again, I don't identify with your description of reality. That is not my sole motive, nor my primary motive. You don't seem to make a distinction between your subjective impressions and objective descriptions of reality. I don't see the same world you do.
Buck Crick wrote:
A few enlightened individuals, centuries ago in India, later in China, still later in the form of a carpenter of Galilea, learned of the need to transcend the illness of the mind.
They said look at how you live and treat others. All things of form, including thinking of forms, is vanity and ego.
You're conflating separate issues: right action and right view.

And I think you give Jesus too much credit. He contributed nothing original and valuable to moral philosophy or metaphysics. If you disagree, perhaps you could offer a few counterexamples.

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#12405
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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>

And I think you give Jesus too much credit. He contributed nothing original and valuable to moral philosophy or metaphysics. If you disagree, perhaps you could offer a few counterexamples.
Jesus taught "not to destroy your enemies ...that those who wish to be the greatest among us , must be servants ...he taught against accumulation of wealth , power , pride ...He taught us to call God ( Abba ) father ...

..this was totally new ; and has never been repeated ..

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#12406
Nov 3, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
If you can't see the flaw in that argument by yourself now, you probably never will. It's a nice illustration of the inability of faith based thinkers and evidence based thinkers to teach one another. We think in radically different ways.
..Now , it is you ( who refuses to answer )..!

You took "only" the complexity of the cell to rebuttal , but what about the first rule of thermal dynamics ..an , outside force caused the creation of the universe ..? nothing ..

why , do men have consciences ? nothing ..

Unlike , yourself I'm not going to assume you are avoiding the topic ..maybe , it wasn't interesting ..an omission ...I don't really care ..

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#12407
Nov 3, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>

I asked, "Then you think that the values of a god can fall to the level that man is at, and the god still be perfect?" and you chose not to answer.
No ..God perfection is above reproach ..what , we can learn from the "OT" is God has a personality , He forgives , is angered feels regret ,jealous .

and , no these are not petty , the sacred authors had to use "words" to describe God , and words are limited, in what they can convey ..

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#12408
Nov 3, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Once again, I don't identify with your description of reality. That is not my sole motive, nor my primary motive. You don't seem to make a distinction between your subjective impressions and objective descriptions of reality. I don't see the same world you do.
<quoted text>
You're conflating separate issues: right action and right view.
And I think you give Jesus too much credit. He contributed nothing original and valuable to moral philosophy or metaphysics. If you disagree, perhaps you could offer a few counterexamples.
The originality of Jesus' teaching lies in the context of the time and place. It was not essentially original, as similar philosophy was at least known of in eastern mysticism.

But Jesus lived and was educated in a Jewish society. "Salvation" relied on books and rules, properly kept. The concept of God was a separate, remote, monarch who handed out favor when properly humored.

Jesus taught against that in powerful and rebellious fashion. His recommendation was to give a cup of water to a stranger, and if you lack the desire to do that, even casting out demons and performing miracles profits nothing.

Jesus taught the futility of looking for an external monarchy that rules the universe like moving chess pieces on a board. He suggested an internal essence that is distinct from material form and thought form.

"I and the Father are One"; "If you see me, you have seen the Father".

The mistake of religion was they thought he was talking about himself. He was speaking of everyone.

Maybe not original, but at the time, inspired and revolutionary.

Christianity mangled the message and created an abomination. They did it for the same reason men do most things - power, authority, and control.

Maybe the true message will be rediscovered. Hope so.

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#12409
Nov 3, 2013
 

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It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
It seems a little self-centered to me, not godly. What he wants results in souls going to hell. If your god is real, he has done a large number of us a disservice by allowing so many of us to disbelieve by giving us free will, disappearing, and stocking the world with deceptive fossils and genetic markers all saying he doesn't exist. And for what? So that he can be surrounded in heaven by people that guessed right despite contrary evidence? Like I said, that doesn't sound very godly. In fact, it's a trifle selfish.
But that's just the start. Why won't he let me go to sleep after death if he doesn't want me in heaven? Why keep me awake forever suffering in fire? Sorry to be so disrespectful, but I have to ask: How can you call a creature would do something like that anything but a monster?
<quoted text>
Bridge tournament. I'm not taking my computer to the hotel, and tend not to use the public ones.
Look ! The reason you don't call God a monster , is because you'll get the leprosy ...nah, I'm just joshin'

before Jesus redeemed mankind "all" souls went to hell , the worst of the suffering is the eternal loss of God ..

And , here's were you will get pissed ..We don't really know what God knows ..and, its sounds like a cop out , to be sure ..

But , God is more merciful than you or I ; and yet Hell last an eternity ...

I take umbrage fossils are "not" deceptive ..I (heart) fossils fuels ..and, genetic markers don't actually speak ...

the creation story is a myth , as no one was there to record events , the sacred author merely wished to convey God created everything ..Adam and Eve were our "spiritual" ancestors ...more than just hominids ..I consider them , the reason for the " knowledge explosion " ..

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#12411
Nov 3, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>

"I and the Father are One"; "If you see me, you have seen the Father".
The mistake of religion was they thought he was talking about himself. He was speaking of everyone.

...bzzt... Incorrect , every time Jesus was misunderstood , He was quick to speak plainly ..and , in this case with His very life on the line ..He , made quick His escape ..as, the Jews understood exactly what He was claiming ..equality with God ..

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#12412
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number four wrote:
<quoted text>...bzzt... Incorrect , every time Jesus was misunderstood , He was quick to speak plainly ..and , in this case with His very life on the line ..He , made quick His escape ..as, the Jews understood exactly what He was claiming ..equality with God ..
Jesus escaped by clarifying that he was no more "one with God" than everyone else.

They were about to stone him for blasphemy - claiming equality with God.

He referred them to their own sacred scriptures - Psalm 82:6 - "Ye are gods".

He saved his own life by declaring he was no different than they.

Either he was lying to save his skin, or he did not believe he was God.

The preponderance of evidence is that he did not believe he was God, in any way unique from other human beings.

John 10:

32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?

33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.

34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?

35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?

“The eye has it...”

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#12413
Nov 3, 2013
 
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus escaped by clarifying that he was no more "one with God" than everyone else.
They were about to stone him for blasphemy - claiming equality with God.
He referred them to their own sacred scriptures - Psalm 82:6 - "Ye are gods".
He saved his own life by declaring he was no different than they.
Either he was lying to save his skin, or he did not believe he was God.
The preponderance of evidence is that he did not believe he was God, in any way unique from other human beings.
John 10:
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
Noun: Buckadaveism 'buh-cuh, dey-vee-izum

1.A religion originated by two individuals that profess various forms of woo woo doctrines and a mixture of fringe science incorporating; Intelligent Design, Marlboro cigarettes, EM, "thingies", "energies",.·:*¨`*Th e Unknown*¨`*:·., paper clips, Universal Logic™, Jesusism, monoliths, beer, swine, and a cat.

Primarily focused on an insubstantial and invisible birdlike god being that resides outside of time and space.

http://www.Buckadaveism.com

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#12414
Nov 3, 2013
 

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Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus escaped by clarifying that he was no more "one with God" than everyone else.
They were about to stone him for blasphemy - claiming equality with God.
He referred them to their own sacred scriptures - Psalm 82:6 - "Ye are gods".
He saved his own life by declaring he was no different than they.
Either he was lying to save his skin, or he did not believe he was God.
The preponderance of evidence is that he did not believe he was God, in any way unique from other human beings.
John 10:
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?
....oy vey ...You missed a few passages , yes Jesus asked "why do you want to kill me for claiming to be the son of God ," and He quoted Psalms ....but, then He pushed the envelope ...and, actually claimed " He is in God " ...Jews are nice people , but in this they could not abide ...John 10;38 ..

I don't know what Jesus's skill was , was He wiry , nimble a parkour master ..??

.. mobs never hurt Him ..

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#12415
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scaritual wrote:
<quoted text>
Noun: Buckadaveism 'buh-cuh, dey-vee-izum
1.A religion originated by two individuals that profess various forms of woo woo doctrines and a mixture of fringe science incorporating; Intelligent Design, Marlboro cigarettes, EM, "thingies", "energies",.·:*¨`*Th e Unknown*¨`*:·., paper clips, Universal Logic™, Jesusism, monoliths, beer, swine, and a cat.
Primarily focused on an insubstantial and invisible birdlike god being that resides outside of time and space.
http://www.Buckadaveism.com
..Yeah , this is where Christianity beats its opponents ..Jesus , never wrote a thing ..WITNESSES DID ..Matthew , Mark , Luke ,John and Peter ..

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#12416
Nov 3, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..Yeah , this is where Christianity beats its opponents ..Jesus , never wrote a thing ..WITNESSES DID ..Matthew , Mark , Luke ,John and Peter ..
Sorry?

Those books were not written by anyone they told about, silly boyo!

The 4 "gospels" in the NT were written 3 generations **after** the alleged events.

They are simply gossip, and nothing more.
LCNLin

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#12417
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80,291 examples of gossip.

So far
many attacks
alas no proof of his beliefs
LOL

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