Atheism and cowardice

Nov 18, 2011 Full story: Conservapedia 12,667

Have any of the New Atheists toured [[Islam]]ic countries giving lectures in which they condemn [[Allah]], [[Muhammad]], Islam, or Muslims? Have any of them debated Muslims in Islamic countries? Have any of them been interviewed on Al Jazeera? Have any of them written entire books in which they condemn Allah, Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims? Have they ... (more)

Full Story

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12378 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
We are told that a third of the angels severed that bond, and they had a good look at heaven and its god first. What do you suppose that they knew that we can't know yet? Why aren't we permitted to hear their reasons from them, or how they feel about their choice now?
number four wrote:
yep..fully one third of the Angels ( sometimes I call them angles , it's my stupid auto correct ..just, so you know ..) severed that bond .. The fallen Angels were amazing creatures full of intellect , beauty , inner strength ...they felt they didn't need God ..that worship of God is for the weak minded , low intelligences , brain washed serving godbots ...Demons , have a high opinion of themselves ..
Our freewill is here and now, some of strive for Gods kingdom ; some don't ..
You are not obligated to answer any questions with words, but evading them is also an answer of sorts, one that says that you have no answer.

I realize that. The questions are really rhetorical questions - questions making a statement rather than seeking information. You're not alone.

Those are among dozens of questions that an open-minded person might like answered before he accepts Christianity's claims. The absence of any good answer is answer enough.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Let me ask you again: Do you expect to still have your free will in heaven, or to be stripped of it between here and there?
number four wrote:
I'm not trying to shut you down , but your question seems moot ..If I make my choice "now" ( God or perdition )..why, would I want to change it , in Heaven ..?
My question is not moot (modern sense) if you believe that you are working for a place in heaven, or think that it might be possible.

Should I ask you a third time ("Do you expect to still have your free will in heaven, or to be stripped of it between here and there?"), or shall we just end this one the same way we did the last one?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12379 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..Bite your tongue ,man ..!!..I've seen those females , that go to local free clinics ..I would want to touch them with a stick ...
Your post answering mine at http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... got screwed up. Would you try it again? I'm most interested in the part that asks why you consider a god that keeps souls conscious after their deaths just to make them suffer forever to the benefit of nobody for the crime of not worshiping - and without hope of parole - is merciful. You also consider him just and loving, correct? I get petty, capricious, vindictive, narcissistic, sadistic and unforgiving from that. Why don't you?

Incidentally, I will away from home for the week beginning tomorrow (Sunday) morning, and possibly not on Topix, as I may not have easy Internet access, so, if your replies come later than that, I'll get to them when I am able.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12380 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>oops ..I tried to put my replies into your post ( as you have so clearly done ) and only my last was birthed ...
OK - I didn't see this until after that last post.

If you want to intersperse your answers between bits of the post you are responding to, make certain that each piece that you addressing is flanked by the proper QUOTE tags - the ones that the Topix software puts on the old post. One way to do this is to break apart the old post and add headers to the parts that need them, and tails to the others. Or, you can just copy and paste the old post each time, and edit it down to the snippet you are answering.
number four wrote:
(A)..When we judge the God of the Old Testament , I find it unfair to use modern day understanding of life , liberty and justice ...Ancient religions ( mankind in general ) were quite cruel towards the "other" ..So, when the Lord revealed Himself to Abraham , I think humans dispense what they considered moral behavior into their worship ..
Then you think that the values of a god can fall to the level that man is at, and the god still be perfect? I don't. I think that that is evidence that men wrote those words using the values of the time.
number four wrote:
(A1)..My point , Yahweh brought personal relationship , care for the down trodden , blessings for the just ...something , I doubt you could find in Poseidon , Odin highfather or that coyote god ..
That pattern is consistent with the idea that men from one of several extant cultures invented those ideas. I don't believe that a god would no have a chosen people that it favored.
number four wrote:
(B)..Sin and separation from God , is the fault of our first parents ..not Gods .
I thought we weren't to judge ancients through modern eyes. I guess I misunderstood

What I see in your answer is that you give your god a pass for his failures, and blame his creations, the victims of those failures. I don't.

Here are my values: if you are omniscient and omnipotent, and know in advance that the beings you will be creating will be sinning, then that is your will and your responsibility. If you then blame the creation and punish it with torture, you aren't a good, kind, loving, just or merciful god. You the petty, capricious, vindictive, narcissistic, sadistic and unforgiving god I just described.
number four wrote:
(B)..Why , Hell is justified ... Lets look at the nature of the "one" offended ...If I take a bat to my dog ...punishment...therapy and medication If I attack President Obama with a bat ..punishment..20 years and a book signing . If I attack (with a bat ) My dotting old mother ..punishment..I should be shot thru the skull and fed to the pigs ...
Sorry, my friend, but you really have nothing to offer me regarding morals. You have those Old Testament values in 2013. Many Christians think just like you do. I don't consider the fact that the church does that to be a public good.

According to humanist values, torture is not a virtue, not even torturing vicious people. And torturing people for unbelief is monstrous.
number four wrote:
..And...You Heathens " KEEP FORGETTING " ...you , can "always" ask for forgiveness ...Hell , does not have to be our final end ..
Forgiveness for what? Being born human? I celebrate that.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12381 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
How can you explain mans conscience ..
How can you explain the order of the stars and heavenly bodies , and cells so complex they boggle the mind ..
Those are more powerful arguments against an uncreated god than they are against an uncreated universe containing uncreated cells with a uncreated consciences.

After all, what is the most complex - and therefore least likely to exist uncreated - thing you can imagine?

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12382 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
You are not obligated to answer any questions with words, but evading them is also an answer of sorts, one that says that you have no answer.
I realize that. The questions are really rhetorical questions - questions making a statement rather than seeking information. You're not alone.
Those are among dozens of questions that an open-minded person might like answered before he accepts Christianity's claims. The absence of any good answer is answer enough.
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
My question is not moot (modern sense) if you believe that you are working for a place in heaven, or think that it might be possible.
Should I ask you a third time ("Do you expect to still have your free will in heaven, or to be stripped of it between here and there?"), or shall we just end this one the same way we did the last one?
..okay..I don't how to deal with your sort ; you actually ask questions you want answers to ..I'm not actually used to dealing with grown-ups on this thread ..my apologies ..

1) Yes , of course you still possess freewill , could you still sin ?.."no"..Could you maliciously hurt someone , you love more than life itself ?.. that's ludicrous ..triple exclamation point .

2) As to how Angels or fallen Angels feel about their choices ..I can only to speak to the former , and according to scriptures they are constantly singing praises and hallelujahs ...now , that's a party ..!

3) I couldn't find anything to respond to , in the top paragraph " It ain't necessarily so " ....did I , perchance miss another query ...??...Your opinion matters ...

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12383 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Your post answering mine at http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... got screwed up. Would you try it again? I'm most interested in the part that asks why you consider a god that keeps souls conscious after their deaths just to make them suffer forever to the benefit of nobody for the crime of not worshiping - and without hope of parole - is merciful. You also consider him just and loving, correct? I get petty, capricious, vindictive, narcissistic, sadistic and unforgiving from that. Why don't you?
Incidentally, I will away from home for the week beginning tomorrow (Sunday) morning, and possibly not on Topix, as I may not have easy Internet access, so, if your replies come later than that, I'll get to them when I am able.
It's the nature of our creation ( "We shall create them in Our own image" ....God , circa 200 million B.C.)..ergo...We have 'spirit'..'logic'..and 'immortality'...

God willed to share His life with thinking breathing animals , not wind-up dolls ...some, will choose Him others will not ..

You're leaving .?..are you off to one of those local free clinics to pass out those "free" pelvic exams ..?!...You lucky devil ..!!

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12384 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Those are more powerful arguments against an uncreated god than they are against an uncreated universe containing uncreated cells with a uncreated consciences.
After all, what is the most complex - and therefore least likely to exist uncreated - thing you can imagine?
..?...the TARDIS..??

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12385 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
OK - I didn't see this until after that last post.
<quoted text> okay , let me try it ...WHOO HOO..!! <quoted text>
If you want to intersperse your answers between bits of the post you are responding to, make certain that each piece that you addressing is flanked by the proper QUOTE tags
<quoted text> Hey , if this works , I hope I don't owe you any money , sure I make a lot but, it all goes up my nose ..<quoted text>

- the ones that the Topix software puts on the old post. One way to do this is to break apart the old post and add headers to the parts that need them, and tails to the others. Or, you can just copy and paste the old post each time, and edit it down to the snippet you are answering.
test

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12386 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Those are more powerful arguments against an uncreated god than they are against an uncreated universe containing uncreated cells with a uncreated consciences.
After all, what is the most complex - and therefore least likely to exist uncreated - thing you can imagine?
sorry , for being flippant ...Ans. God

but , that fact remains "we exist" ...and , for weeks nay ! centuries the philosophies have asked "why ?" ...It seems to matter to a great many minds ..and , "most" of these great minds have asserted ?...Ans. God

there can be only , one truth ...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#12387 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>Well , I'm my defense ..recipients ..that I ,have came across , are ; men addicted to alcohol and haven't had a job since 'swatch watches ' were cool ,
Really? You've meat these people? Or were you describing your family...?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#12388 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>Well , I'm my defense ..recipients ..that I ,have came across , are ; men addicted to alcohol and haven't had a job since 'swatch watches ' were cool ,
I wrote:

Really? You've meat these people? Or were you describing your family...?

LOL!

I misspelled "met"...!

LOL!
christINSANITY is EVIL

Windsor, Canada

#12389 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>sorry , for being flippant ...Ans. God
but , that fact remains "we exist" ...and , for weeks nay ! centuries the philosophies have asked "why ?" ...It seems to matter to a great many minds ..and , "most" of these great minds have asserted ?...Ans. God
there can be only , one truth ...
how do YOU distinguish the Truth from Fantasy?

do tell

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12390 Nov 2, 2013
christINSANITY is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
how do YOU distinguish the Truth from Fantasy?
do tell
..truth..seems to be ,longer lasting than fantasy ...oh , lets say 2000 years and counting ...

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12391 Nov 2, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I wrote:
Really? You've meat these people? Or were you describing your family...?
LOL!
I misspelled "met"...!
LOL!
..Of course , I've never met these people ...but, I saw it on T.V.( and, that's just as reliable ..good Sir )

nah , I jest ...two , of my drinking buddies ..one is supported by his girlfriend , the other by his Uncle ..both won't work ...and , both take Government assistance ..yep , supposedly society owes them an existence ...who would've thunk ..??

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#12392 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..truth..seems to be ,longer lasting than fantasy ...oh , lets say 2000 years and counting ...
Actually? 4.3 billion years of truth.

Your mere "2000 years" of fantasy is hardly a drop in that truth-bucket.

Silly.

You are drunk again, aren't you?

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12393 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Then you think that the values of a god can fall to the level that man is at, and the god still be perfect? I don't. I think that that is evidence that men wrote those words using the values of the time.
<quoted text>
That pattern is consistent with the idea that men from one of several extant cultures invented those ideas. I don't believe that a god would no have a chosen people that it favored.
<quoted text>
I thought we weren't to judge ancients through modern eyes. I guess I misunderstood
What I see in your answer is that you give your god a pass for his failures, and blame his creations, the victims of those failures. I don't.
Here are my values: if you are omniscient and omnipotent, and know in advance that the beings you will be creating will be sinning, then that is your will and your responsibility. If you then blame the creation and punish it with torture, you aren't a good, kind, loving, just or merciful god. You the petty, capricious, vindictive, narcissistic, sadistic and unforgiving god I just described.
<quoted text>
Sorry, my friend, but you really have nothing to offer me regarding morals. You have those Old Testament values in 2013. Many Christians think just like you do. I don't consider the fact that the church does that to be a public good.
According to humanist values, torture is not a virtue, not even torturing vicious people. And torturing people for unbelief is monstrous.
<quoted text>
Forgiveness for what? Being born human? I celebrate that.
A) I think when we read the Old Testament ..God appears to be repulsive ..but, the Bible should not be interpreted in snippets ..and , the "trend" of the Old Testament ; I would argue ,is more good than bad ..

B) The chosen race ?...How else could God show His providence , to the entire world , without raising an entire nation above all others ...( Is this what you asked ..?..the text was confusing .)

C) Not a judgement **fact** Adam and Eve brought sin into the world ..I liken it to child molestation ..a crime that may have occurred decades ago ..but, still poisons for generations ..it's some bad mojo ..!
C1) original sin is destructive , but how does God remedy the rift , by becoming one of us ,thereby making God not only our Father but brother too ...things may appear disastrous , but God uses all things for His greater glory ..

D) If God did not allow us to make mistakes ...would life really be worth living and experiencing ...surely , you did not want your own parents to hover over you and protect you from every mistake ...
E) the pains of Hell are meant for the Devil and his angels , if we follow Satan , well then we choose to go were he goes ..
E1) consider it justice ; lets look at Qaddafi or Kim jong il , the torture , brutality , rape , starvation , crippling and death they cause to a nation and people under their care ...why , don't they deserve to eat from the same dish , they gleefully served to others ..

F) you become culpable at the age of reason ( for most age 7 )..not , for just being born ..

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#12395 Nov 2, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
The Lil Ticked troll is here to attempt to misdirect readers away from the fact that her cult has no proof of god.
You are nothing more than a sheep just like the rest of the fanatics on Topix. No different from those you hate. Sounds familiar.. Something about staring into the abyss or whatever.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12396 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
God willed to share His life with thinking breathing animals , not wind-up dolls ...some, will choose Him others will not ..
It seems a little self-centered to me, not godly. What he wants results in souls going to hell. If your god is real, he has done a large number of us a disservice by allowing so many of us to disbelieve by giving us free will, disappearing, and stocking the world with deceptive fossils and genetic markers all saying he doesn't exist. And for what? So that he can be surrounded in heaven by people that guessed right despite contrary evidence? Like I said, that doesn't sound very godly. In fact, it's a trifle selfish.

But that's just the start. Why won't he let me go to sleep after death if he doesn't want me in heaven? Why keep me awake forever suffering in fire? Sorry to be so disrespectful, but I have to ask: How can you call a creature would do something like that anything but a monster?
number four wrote:
You're leaving .?..are you off to one of those local free clinics to pass out those "free" pelvic exams ..?!...You lucky devil ..!!
Bridge tournament. I'm not taking my computer to the hotel, and tend not to use the public ones.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12397 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Those are more powerful arguments against an uncreated god than they are against an uncreated universe containing uncreated cells with a uncreated consciences. After all, what is the most complex - and therefore least likely to exist uncreated - thing you can imagine?
number four wrote:
<quoted text>sorry , for being flippant ...Ans. God but , that fact remains "we exist" ...and , for weeks nay ! centuries the philosophies have asked "why ?" ...It seems to matter to a great many minds ..and , "most" of these great minds have asserted ?...Ans. God there can be only , one truth ...
If you can't see the flaw in that argument by yourself now, you probably never will. It's a nice illustration of the inability of faith based thinkers and evidence based thinkers to teach one another. We think in radically different ways.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#12398 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
If you can't see the flaw in that argument by yourself now, you probably never will. It's a nice illustration of the inability of faith based thinkers and evidence based thinkers to teach one another. We think in radically different ways.
The thinking of the human mind is conditioned for madness, or habitual human dysfunction.

The Hindu calls it "maya", the veil of delusion. Buddhism calls it "dukkha", suffering, dissatisfaction, and misery.

If the history of humanity were a case history for one individual, the diagnosis would be paranoid delusional, or criminally insane. The root of the disease is the thinking human mind. This mind constantly seeks to achieve self-enhancement; strengthening itself through "thinking", and "knowledge", in order to improve its self-conception.

A few enlightened individuals, centuries ago in India, later in China, still later in the form of a carpenter of Galilea, learned of the need to transcend the illness of the mind.

They said look at how you live and treat others. All things of form, including thinking of forms, is vanity and ego.

There was no evidential basis for it.

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Atheism Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
Atheism requires as much faith as religion? (Jul '09) 6 min Rosa_Winkel 235,826
"Science vs. Religion: What Scientists Really T... (Jan '12) 14 min One way or another 16,920
Atheists Aren't the Problem, Christian Intolera... 2 hr Eagle 12 4,902
Science Disproves Evolution (Aug '12) 4 hr thetruth 1,670
Turkey blocks website of its first atheist asso... 4 hr thetruth 3
What evidence make you believe in God/gods? 4 hr thetruth 31
The Consequences of Atheism 5 hr Thinking 827
More from around the web