Atheism and cowardice

Atheism and cowardice

There are 12663 comments on the Conservapedia story from Nov 18, 2011, titled Atheism and cowardice. In it, Conservapedia reports that:

Have any of the New Atheists toured [[Islam]]ic countries giving lectures in which they condemn [[Allah]], [[Muhammad]], Islam, or Muslims? Have any of them debated Muslims in Islamic countries? Have any of them been interviewed on Al Jazeera? Have any of them written entire books in which they condemn Allah, Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims? Have they ... (more)

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number four

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12385 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
OK - I didn't see this until after that last post.
<quoted text> okay , let me try it ...WHOO HOO..!! <quoted text>
If you want to intersperse your answers between bits of the post you are responding to, make certain that each piece that you addressing is flanked by the proper QUOTE tags
<quoted text> Hey , if this works , I hope I don't owe you any money , sure I make a lot but, it all goes up my nose ..<quoted text>

- the ones that the Topix software puts on the old post. One way to do this is to break apart the old post and add headers to the parts that need them, and tails to the others. Or, you can just copy and paste the old post each time, and edit it down to the snippet you are answering.
test
number four

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12386 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
Those are more powerful arguments against an uncreated god than they are against an uncreated universe containing uncreated cells with a uncreated consciences.
After all, what is the most complex - and therefore least likely to exist uncreated - thing you can imagine?
sorry , for being flippant ...Ans. God

but , that fact remains "we exist" ...and , for weeks nay ! centuries the philosophies have asked "why ?" ...It seems to matter to a great many minds ..and , "most" of these great minds have asserted ?...Ans. God

there can be only , one truth ...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#12387 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>Well , I'm my defense ..recipients ..that I ,have came across , are ; men addicted to alcohol and haven't had a job since 'swatch watches ' were cool ,
Really? You've meat these people? Or were you describing your family...?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#12388 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>Well , I'm my defense ..recipients ..that I ,have came across , are ; men addicted to alcohol and haven't had a job since 'swatch watches ' were cool ,
I wrote:

Really? You've meat these people? Or were you describing your family...?

LOL!

I misspelled "met"...!

LOL!
christINSANITY is EVIL

Wheatley, Canada

#12389 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>sorry , for being flippant ...Ans. God
but , that fact remains "we exist" ...and , for weeks nay ! centuries the philosophies have asked "why ?" ...It seems to matter to a great many minds ..and , "most" of these great minds have asserted ?...Ans. God
there can be only , one truth ...
how do YOU distinguish the Truth from Fantasy?

do tell
number four

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12390 Nov 2, 2013
christINSANITY is EVIL wrote:
<quoted text>
how do YOU distinguish the Truth from Fantasy?
do tell
..truth..seems to be ,longer lasting than fantasy ...oh , lets say 2000 years and counting ...
number four

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12391 Nov 2, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
I wrote:
Really? You've meat these people? Or were you describing your family...?
LOL!
I misspelled "met"...!
LOL!
..Of course , I've never met these people ...but, I saw it on T.V.( and, that's just as reliable ..good Sir )

nah , I jest ...two , of my drinking buddies ..one is supported by his girlfriend , the other by his Uncle ..both won't work ...and , both take Government assistance ..yep , supposedly society owes them an existence ...who would've thunk ..??

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#12392 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..truth..seems to be ,longer lasting than fantasy ...oh , lets say 2000 years and counting ...
Actually? 4.3 billion years of truth.

Your mere "2000 years" of fantasy is hardly a drop in that truth-bucket.

Silly.

You are drunk again, aren't you?
number four

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12393 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Then you think that the values of a god can fall to the level that man is at, and the god still be perfect? I don't. I think that that is evidence that men wrote those words using the values of the time.
<quoted text>
That pattern is consistent with the idea that men from one of several extant cultures invented those ideas. I don't believe that a god would no have a chosen people that it favored.
<quoted text>
I thought we weren't to judge ancients through modern eyes. I guess I misunderstood
What I see in your answer is that you give your god a pass for his failures, and blame his creations, the victims of those failures. I don't.
Here are my values: if you are omniscient and omnipotent, and know in advance that the beings you will be creating will be sinning, then that is your will and your responsibility. If you then blame the creation and punish it with torture, you aren't a good, kind, loving, just or merciful god. You the petty, capricious, vindictive, narcissistic, sadistic and unforgiving god I just described.
<quoted text>
Sorry, my friend, but you really have nothing to offer me regarding morals. You have those Old Testament values in 2013. Many Christians think just like you do. I don't consider the fact that the church does that to be a public good.
According to humanist values, torture is not a virtue, not even torturing vicious people. And torturing people for unbelief is monstrous.
<quoted text>
Forgiveness for what? Being born human? I celebrate that.
A) I think when we read the Old Testament ..God appears to be repulsive ..but, the Bible should not be interpreted in snippets ..and , the "trend" of the Old Testament ; I would argue ,is more good than bad ..

B) The chosen race ?...How else could God show His providence , to the entire world , without raising an entire nation above all others ...( Is this what you asked ..?..the text was confusing .)

C) Not a judgement **fact** Adam and Eve brought sin into the world ..I liken it to child molestation ..a crime that may have occurred decades ago ..but, still poisons for generations ..it's some bad mojo ..!
C1) original sin is destructive , but how does God remedy the rift , by becoming one of us ,thereby making God not only our Father but brother too ...things may appear disastrous , but God uses all things for His greater glory ..

D) If God did not allow us to make mistakes ...would life really be worth living and experiencing ...surely , you did not want your own parents to hover over you and protect you from every mistake ...
E) the pains of Hell are meant for the Devil and his angels , if we follow Satan , well then we choose to go were he goes ..
E1) consider it justice ; lets look at Qaddafi or Kim jong il , the torture , brutality , rape , starvation , crippling and death they cause to a nation and people under their care ...why , don't they deserve to eat from the same dish , they gleefully served to others ..

F) you become culpable at the age of reason ( for most age 7 )..not , for just being born ..

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#12395 Nov 2, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
The Lil Ticked troll is here to attempt to misdirect readers away from the fact that her cult has no proof of god.
You are nothing more than a sheep just like the rest of the fanatics on Topix. No different from those you hate. Sounds familiar.. Something about staring into the abyss or whatever.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12396 Nov 2, 2013
number four wrote:
God willed to share His life with thinking breathing animals , not wind-up dolls ...some, will choose Him others will not ..
It seems a little self-centered to me, not godly. What he wants results in souls going to hell. If your god is real, he has done a large number of us a disservice by allowing so many of us to disbelieve by giving us free will, disappearing, and stocking the world with deceptive fossils and genetic markers all saying he doesn't exist. And for what? So that he can be surrounded in heaven by people that guessed right despite contrary evidence? Like I said, that doesn't sound very godly. In fact, it's a trifle selfish.

But that's just the start. Why won't he let me go to sleep after death if he doesn't want me in heaven? Why keep me awake forever suffering in fire? Sorry to be so disrespectful, but I have to ask: How can you call a creature would do something like that anything but a monster?
number four wrote:
You're leaving .?..are you off to one of those local free clinics to pass out those "free" pelvic exams ..?!...You lucky devil ..!!
Bridge tournament. I'm not taking my computer to the hotel, and tend not to use the public ones.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12397 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Those are more powerful arguments against an uncreated god than they are against an uncreated universe containing uncreated cells with a uncreated consciences. After all, what is the most complex - and therefore least likely to exist uncreated - thing you can imagine?
number four wrote:
<quoted text>sorry , for being flippant ...Ans. God but , that fact remains "we exist" ...and , for weeks nay ! centuries the philosophies have asked "why ?" ...It seems to matter to a great many minds ..and , "most" of these great minds have asserted ?...Ans. God there can be only , one truth ...
If you can't see the flaw in that argument by yourself now, you probably never will. It's a nice illustration of the inability of faith based thinkers and evidence based thinkers to teach one another. We think in radically different ways.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#12398 Nov 2, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>
<quoted text>
If you can't see the flaw in that argument by yourself now, you probably never will. It's a nice illustration of the inability of faith based thinkers and evidence based thinkers to teach one another. We think in radically different ways.
The thinking of the human mind is conditioned for madness, or habitual human dysfunction.

The Hindu calls it "maya", the veil of delusion. Buddhism calls it "dukkha", suffering, dissatisfaction, and misery.

If the history of humanity were a case history for one individual, the diagnosis would be paranoid delusional, or criminally insane. The root of the disease is the thinking human mind. This mind constantly seeks to achieve self-enhancement; strengthening itself through "thinking", and "knowledge", in order to improve its self-conception.

A few enlightened individuals, centuries ago in India, later in China, still later in the form of a carpenter of Galilea, learned of the need to transcend the illness of the mind.

They said look at how you live and treat others. All things of form, including thinking of forms, is vanity and ego.

There was no evidential basis for it.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12399 Nov 3, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Then you think that the values of a god can fall to the level that man is at, and the god still be perfect? I don't. I think that that is evidence that men wrote those words using the values of the time. That pattern is consistent with the idea that men from one of several extant cultures invented those ideas. I don't believe that a god would no have a chosen people that it favored.
number four wrote:
A) I think when we read the Old Testament ..God appears to be repulsive ..but, the Bible should not be interpreted in snippets ..and , the "trend" of the Old Testament ; I would argue ,is more good than bad ..
So you see the god of the Old Testament as repulsive when you read about him in snippets, but less so if you read straight through? And you think he should get credit for improvement over time? I can't agree with either of those, and don't find them relevant. As I said, I think that that is evidence that men wrote those words using the values of the time.

I asked, "Then you think that the values of a god can fall to the level that man is at, and the god still be perfect?" and you chose not to answer.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12400 Nov 3, 2013
number four wrote:
B) The chosen race ?...How else could God show His providence , to the entire world , without raising an entire nation above all others ...( Is this what you asked ..?..the text was confusing .)
What I said was that I don't think a creator god would have a chosen people.

And you ask how else could a god show providence except to favor one group of people over another? That favor involved nonstop warfare and large scale genocide. Sorry, but I still don't see evidence of a great god in that, just evidence of petty, brutal, sadistic men projecting their values and worldview onto a fictitious god through which they speak.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
What I see in your answer is that you give your god a pass for his failures, and blame his creations, the victims of those failures. I don't. Here are my values: if you are omniscient and omnipotent, and know in advance that the beings you will be creating will be sinning, then that is your will and your responsibility. If you then blame the creation and punish it with torture, you aren't a good, kind, loving, just or merciful god. You the petty, capricious, vindictive, narcissistic, sadistic and unforgiving god I just described.
number four wrote:
C) Not a judgement **fact** Adam and Eve brought sin into the world
You used the word "fault," which makes it a judgment: "Sin and separation from God, is the fault of our first parents .. not Gods." And as indicated, I find blaming the created for its nature an unfair judgment.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12401 Nov 3, 2013
number four wrote:
God uses all things for His greater glory ..
This is more evidence that the biblical god is just a projection of the minds of primitive men. Mature minds don't concern themselves with self-glorification.
number four wrote:
D) If God did not allow us to make mistakes ...would life really be worth living and experiencing ...surely , you did not want your own parents to hover over you and protect you from every mistake ...
I read this argument frequently as well. Yes, life would be worth living without mistakes. And my parent prepared me to live in a world over which they and I had relatively little control. Does that describe the biblical god's relationship with its creation as well? If my parents had been gods, they would have raised me differently.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12402 Nov 3, 2013
number four wrote:
E) the pains of Hell are meant for the Devil and his angels , if we follow Satan , well then we choose to go were he goes ..
"Meant for the Devil"? If an omnisicient god builds a torture pit that it knows it will be stalking with human souls, then the torture pit was meant for what it would be used for.

Besides, hell is a playground for a sadistic demon, not punishment, especially when you put the demon in charge. Satan was favored over man.

Why would a good and loving god throw a supernatural demon into our world and give it power to ruin lives here? Why isn't Satan a prisoner in hell?
number four wrote:
E1) consider it justice ; lets look at Qaddafi or Kim jong il , the torture , brutality , rape , starvation , crippling and death they cause to a nation and people under their care ...why , don't they deserve to eat from the same dish , they gleefully served to others ..
No. Torture is never a virtue.

And even if it were just in some cases, how do you justify eternal tirture for all unbelievers? You can't.
It aint necessarily so wrote:
Forgiveness for what? Being born human? I celebrate that.
number four wrote:
F) you become culpable at the age of reason ( for most age 7 )..not , for just being born ..
Where does the bible say that? And culpable for what? Being human? Being born with a proclivity for violence, theft, and deceit?

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12403 Nov 3, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
The thinking of the human mind is conditioned for madness, or habitual human dysfunction. The Hindu calls it "maya", the veil of delusion. Buddhism calls it "dukkha", suffering, dissatisfaction, and misery. If the history of humanity were a case history for one individual, the diagnosis would be paranoid delusional, or criminally insane. The root of the disease is the thinking human mind.
I don't identify with your sentiments. And I don't think that maya and dukka are the same thing, nor are they the dark thing that you depict. I see you projecting your own demons onto the world.

Speaking of deception, you - the creator of Buck Crick - are a deceiver of sorts, by which I mean that I don't believe that your Internet persona is who you really are. But as I have explained in the past, I deal with that persona at face value because what else is there?

That persona has expressed shame and regret repeatedly. "You" live with that. I don't. As a result, I see a very different world than you do.

“Life may be sweeter for this”

Since: Nov 08

Fennario

#12404 Nov 3, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
This mind constantly seeks to achieve self-enhancement; strengthening itself through "thinking", and "knowledge", in order to improve its self-conception.
Once again, I don't identify with your description of reality. That is not my sole motive, nor my primary motive. You don't seem to make a distinction between your subjective impressions and objective descriptions of reality. I don't see the same world you do.
Buck Crick wrote:
A few enlightened individuals, centuries ago in India, later in China, still later in the form of a carpenter of Galilea, learned of the need to transcend the illness of the mind.
They said look at how you live and treat others. All things of form, including thinking of forms, is vanity and ego.
You're conflating separate issues: right action and right view.

And I think you give Jesus too much credit. He contributed nothing original and valuable to moral philosophy or metaphysics. If you disagree, perhaps you could offer a few counterexamples.
number four

Since: May 12

Las Vegas, NV

#12405 Nov 3, 2013
It aint necessarily so wrote:
<quoted text>

And I think you give Jesus too much credit. He contributed nothing original and valuable to moral philosophy or metaphysics. If you disagree, perhaps you could offer a few counterexamples.
Jesus taught "not to destroy your enemies ...that those who wish to be the greatest among us , must be servants ...he taught against accumulation of wealth , power , pride ...He taught us to call God ( Abba ) father ...

..this was totally new ; and has never been repeated ..

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