Atheism and cowardice

Nov 18, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Conservapedia

Have any of the New Atheists toured [[Islam]]ic countries giving lectures in which they condemn [[Allah]], [[Muhammad]], Islam, or Muslims? Have any of them debated Muslims in Islamic countries? Have any of them been interviewed on Al Jazeera? Have any of them written entire books in which they condemn Allah, Muhammad, Islam, or Muslims? Have they ... (more)

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8,701 - 8,720 of 12,667 Comments Last updated Mar 22, 2014

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#8973
May 27, 2013
 
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>Corporations have souls? This is the kind of thinking that led to Citizens United.
I totally agree.

We *must* begin to strip back the "rights" of these incorporeal "citizens", and return to rights of *human beings* first.

Corporations cannot vote, after all-- that is recognition they do not deserve special rights either.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#8974
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..Old or not ; the Buy-Bull claims ,God made life .. "form" .. from , this Planet ...
The BuyBull also claims the earth rests of 4 pillars.

It also claims bats are birds.

And insects have but 4 legs.

So, it's hardly a useful book if you are interested in ... facts.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#8975
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..yeah..??...What are you talking about ....God said ...LET, THERE BE LIGHT ...this was the beginning ...
Magic?

You believe in magic, then?

<laughing>

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

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#8976
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..I purposely did not add "serial killers" as they are just awfully screwed up .....but, pimps ..molesters..thieves..wife beaters..terrorists..are evil..(triple exclamation point)
You could claim I'm a cereal killer... I ate a whole bowl of Wheaties just this morning...
Ray

Hightstown, NJ

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#8977
May 27, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That's okay-- public forum and all that. Jump right in.
<quoted text>
It's true-- I have ample proof of that statement, too. The insane claims by people who worship the bible are more than sufficient.
But here's the thing: what sort of GOOD god would suffer such as the bible to even exist at all?
Since it is the root-cause of SO MUCH EVIL in the world?
Just allowing the bible to even EXIST is ample proof that there are no GOOD gods ANYWHERE.
Indifferent gods? Maybe. But who cares about those?
But any god who *permits* such as the bible/quoran/etc to exist at all?
EVIL.
Period.
Claiming the evil bible is "inspired" is therefore?
Quite an insane thing to say.
<quoted text>
So? People can be insane about limited aspects of their world-view.
Typically, if they are never challenged on the insanity--ever-- they can hold that bit of insane thinking for a long, long time.
<quoted text>
See my point above: that the bible exists at all?
Is pretty much definitive proof of no CARING deity of any kind.
<quoted text>
Well... you do raise a very excellent point, and one I have admittedly failed on time and again.
When I started in Topix, back in 2005 (alas--those posts are now deleted, gone into the bit-bucket) I was more circumspect and respectful of other folk's beliefs.
Over time? I came to realize that nobody cared-- in fact? True Believers would jump on my careful language as a weakness--or worse-- as agreement that their black-and-white "thought" was correct!
So I dropped the careful language along the way from 2005 to now.
My bad, if you like.:)
i cant say i blame you on dropping the careful language, and i actually like the clear cutness. you say it like it is to u. lol it is very true that there are christians on here that really make me embarassed for them. now, i undersand your point on the harm using the bible in a certain way can cause, but its like anything else in the world. lets assume for a moment that God exists, and that he makes pointy rocks on the earth. this is a rather indifferent object, not made for harm or good, just neutral. now, in using those pointyrocks, i can either break open tough shells for sustainance, or i can break open tough skulls in violence. the analagy, although i admit, its incomplete, is merely ment to show how what something is cannot necessarily be judged based on its usage if the original purpose is not discribed or established. also, just because god may seem indifferent does not indicate that he is given human free will. now granted, the bible is a book that can be examined from different points of view, and so your point is valid that if the bible is evil, and god inspired it, then then god must be evil. but now were talking about the principles of good and evil, not just theological principles.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

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#8978
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..>> FIVE << ..Thou shall not kill ..
..God..
Except when the kid is back-talking-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the woman is unfaithful-- then kill her azz. God.

Except when the nation is not a club-member-- then kill the whole country. God.

Except when the slave isn't working-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man steals-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man works on a Saturday-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man wears cotton and wool-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man plants beans with barley-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man eats a cheeseburger-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man eats a a bacon cheeseburger-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man fails to pay 10% of his gross income-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man fails to show hospitality-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man worships an idol (like football)-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man travels on Saturday-- then kill his azz. God.

... shall I go on?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

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#8979
May 27, 2013
 
Mikko wrote:
<quoted text>
but killing is approved by your god
Yep. See my immediately-previous post for an abbreviated list...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#8980
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..yeah..In defense..
(and, for pest control)
Except when the kid is back-talking-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the woman is unfaithful-- then kill her azz. God.

Except when the nation is not a club-member-- then kill the whole country. God.

Except when the slave isn't working-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man steals-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man works on a Saturday-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man wears cotton and wool-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man plants beans with barley-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man eats a cheeseburger-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man eats a a bacon cheeseburger-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man fails to pay 10% of his gross income-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man fails to show hospitality-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man worships an idol (like football)-- then kill his azz. God.

Except when the man travels on Saturday-- then kill his azz. God.

... shall I go on?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

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#8981
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..IT'S STILL "EARTH" ...!!!..I don't really know the difference betwixt dirt ,soil ,ooze, muck ,clay ....I just assume ...(+) ADD WATER ...and VOILA'...LIFE...amen,,
Well... if your dirt isn't sterile? You are correct.... something will grow from that combination.

Likely something who's collective IQ is higher than your average creationist, too...
Ray

Hightstown, NJ

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#8982
May 27, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Skeptic is like that.
But we like him anyway: he tends to drive away the trolls and other unwanteds pretty quick.
Very useful.
:)
very true lol. i dont judge the book by its cover, so i kind figured that he was messing with me or something so i mess back for fun lol

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

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#8983
May 27, 2013
 
Ray wrote:
<quoted text>
i cant say i blame you on dropping the careful language, and i actually like the clear cutness. you say it like it is to u. lol it is very true that there are christians on here that really make me embarassed for them. now, i undersand your point on the harm using the bible in a certain way can cause, but its like anything else in the world. lets assume for a moment that God exists, and that he makes pointy rocks on the earth. this is a rather indifferent object, not made for harm or good, just neutral. now, in using those pointyrocks, i can either break open tough shells for sustainance, or i can break open tough skulls in violence. the analagy, although i admit, its incomplete, is merely ment to show how what something is cannot necessarily be judged based on its usage if the original purpose is not discribed or established. also, just because god may seem indifferent does not indicate that he is given human free will. now granted, the bible is a book that can be examined from different points of view, and so your point is valid that if the bible is evil, and god inspired it, then then god must be evil. but now were talking about the principles of good and evil, not just theological principles.
But.

The bible self-claims it's a literal message from god.

That?

That claim right there?

Is the basis for me dismissing it entirely.

Why?

Because it has been used for so much evil in the world--far more than any slight good it may have accidentally caused.

More to the point: if there was an actual god who DID care about humanity?

Would that *caring* god permit all the evil the bible is directly responsible for, to happen?

Ruining the good name of said god?

I think not! No self-respecting god would suffer such as the bible to continue as it is.

So the only conclusion is, either the god WANTS the evil to happen-- making that god GUILTY of causing the evil!

Or else the god cannot stop the bible from existing, for whatever reason-- which means? It ain't much of a god, then-- too weak. Unworthy of the title.

Or else the god simply doesn't care-- a completely indifferent god.

May as well be a god who isn't there at all, then--for all the usefulness it is.

I do not think something automatically deserves admiration, just because it exists-- it *must* act in such a way to prove itself worthy.

The bible's god? Fails that test. Too far a failure, in fact.

So no-- there is no god behind the bible-- at all.
Ray

Hightstown, NJ

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#8984
May 27, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
False.
Your mistake here? You presume that nothing pre-dates your bible.
This is a false assumption, easily proven false: most of our modern ideas of morality, pre-date the bible-- by a good bit, actually.
well see, im going to have to get more philosophical now, so follow me on this one for a moment. before the bible, it seems apparent that God still set standards in the hearts of men and women on how they should live, as the bible discribes. now if this is true, it doesnt seem problematic that other people may get it right here or there even before the legit establishment of the bible. so, lets take abraham for a second. from a biblical worldview, he was required by God to live to a standard. but that standard may have had certain similarities wth other faiths. like with murder being wrong, if its a "universal truth", wed expect that ofther faiths or cultures would get it right somewhere along the line, regardless of biblical or even divine exposure.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
So your claim is inaccurate. The bible simply copied earlier moral patterns.
What else is new? The bible has copied 100% of it's content in one or more ways, from older religious ideas... it's not even a little bit unique..
i think this statement may be a bit off for one reason: it doesnt account for deeper theological differences that make this faith foundationally different from others. else it would be just the faith that it copied.
Ray

Hightstown, NJ

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#8985
May 27, 2013
 
Ahhh, but you failed the REAL test: there ARE verses on abortion!
And they are clear: the cost is NOT the same as murder-- not even a LITTLE!
Do you want me do do your homework FOR you here? No-- that would be unfair-- it would be better for you to find it on your own.
Hint: it's OT, and it's about a woman who is with child, who loses that child, and the consequences to the one who causes that to happen.
It ain't death.

i know the verses of which you speak of, which is why i added the even if to my statement. but the truth is you mistaken on what that verse says, which is why im not fond of trying to discuss biblical outlayings. the verse when translated from the hebrew actually speaks of if a woman is struck and gives birth, and no harm follows, meaning the child is alive, then the culprit will only have to pay the cost of the cjhild. but if harm follows i.e. the baby died, then the person will die. for us to really understand that in the hebrew, it requires a lot of study and understanding of the language, which is why im not fond of interpeting biblical passages without that base knowledge.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
But murder? Is *always* followed by the death of the murderer.
So the bible CLEARLY does not consider abortion to be murder.
Not even a little bit, in fact.
You are wrong.
the bible posts a death sentence for the death of the child, when it says that if further harm occurs the person is to die
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>

<quoted text>
The bible does not think abortion is murder.
<quoted text>
No-- abortion isn't murder. Science cannot answer this one--apart from perhaps establishing a time where self-awareness begins.
well, i think this is something we have to adress both philosophically and scientifically. ill get to this, but im a slow typer, so forgive my late posts. lol
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
Unfortunately, the answer to that one, appears to be some time *after* birth-- so that won't help here.
Next, science could determine when the brain is developed sufficiently to distinguish from the brain of say a fish or something. That one has some promise-- and it puts the time somewhere between 3 and 6 months after gestation.
Or? Science could determine when the fetus can be distinguished by the naked eye, from the fetus of a pig, a dog or similar. That would again be 4-6 months in.
In fact? Prior to a critical point at roughly 3 months or so? Only an *expert* could tell the fetus is human-- and *then* only by looking at the chromosomes!(to be definitive)
So if we ask *science*, a fetus isn't even distinguishable *as* human until somewhere between 3 and 6 months in.
Too wide a margin? I agree.
So turn to a PRACTICAL test: when can the fetus survive ON IT'S OWN (including incubators or other herculean medical efforts).
*THAT* would be an excellent dividing line: prior to that? Not human, not murder. After that? Human/murder-- put the unwanted kid into the incubator, and adopt him/her out.
Of course-- that value could change, if medical science manages to create artificial wombs-- which I have no beef with---
-- let the unwanted fetus be put into the artificial womb, and TAX THE BIGOT-CHURCHES OUT THEIR AZZ to PAY for it to be raised.
Everybody wins! The ugly church gets to PRACTICE what they preach!
The woman gets her freedom of owning her own body.
The state gets a new tax-payer.
Win-win-win...!
<snark>
lol i like the way you put it lol. well, the truth is the church makes moral claims that foundationally our culture doesnt blend with. so its not just about abortion, but parental responsability, cultural views on parenthood, views on children, etc. so ill get to this in a second.
Ray

Hightstown, NJ

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#8986
May 27, 2013
 
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
But.
The bible self-claims it's a literal message from god.
That?
That claim right there?
Is the basis for me dismissing it entirely.
Why?
Because it has been used for so much evil in the world--far more than any slight good it may have accidentally caused.
More to the point: if there was an actual god who DID care about humanity?
Would that *caring* god permit all the evil the bible is directly responsible for, to happen?
Ruining the good name of said god?
I think not! No self-respecting god would suffer such as the bible to continue as it is.
So the only conclusion is, either the god WANTS the evil to happen-- making that god GUILTY of causing the evil!
Or else the god cannot stop the bible from existing, for whatever reason-- which means? It ain't much of a god, then-- too weak. Unworthy of the title.
Or else the god simply doesn't care-- a completely indifferent god.
May as well be a god who isn't there at all, then--for all the usefulness it is.
I do not think something automatically deserves admiration, just because it exists-- it *must* act in such a way to prove itself worthy.
The bible's god? Fails that test. Too far a failure, in fact.
So no-- there is no god behind the bible-- at all.
well bob, you are very good at framing your argument, something i envy to a degree lol. ok, so your point can be shrunk to the following claims:

1: the bible is an evil book because of the way it has been used.

well, i see this as a stretch for the same reason i described the rock. we simply cannot measure good or bad usage of the bible and then compare that to its validity as an inspired book. the truth claims must be analized from an internal perspective, not just on its usage. its like blaming darwinism for eugenics. its just not a good policy to play the blame equals validity game so to speak

2: God wouldnt allow the usage of his book in such an evil way.

well, i think we just arent in a position to directly assume that God wouldnt create the bible. lets look at it from a christian perspective for a moment. the greatest good someone in this world could recieve given biblical world view is salvation. so if Gods ultimate purpose is salvation for the many, then God is justified in allowing the bible to be written given that he knows its purpose. its like my favorite knife maker ken onion. ken onion knows why he makes his knives, but he also knows that people could use it wrongly or for evil. but ken also knows that his creating his knives can lead to far greater good when in the hands of the right people. so ken is justified in making his knives because he isnt morally responsible for its misuse, only its original purpose.

3:the logical problem of evil, bible style

in part, i dont blame you for this view. the church does have its history. but lets see if there is a legit contradicton between God creating the bible and his goodness. to assert this requires another premise: that the bible is evil and that it cannot be seen in another light. but this isnt apparent on its face. i think we can go further and say that we lack the foundation for judging the bible without establishing moral framework.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

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#8988
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..You just think you are Sooo cool ...just ,because you got all your teeth ...!!!
Actually, it is you who thinks that I am so cool, but who can blame you? It's because you've only seen my good side.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#8989
May 27, 2013
 
pearl wrote:
<quoted text>And everyone of these pimps, child molesters, etc. no doubt justifies their actions{at least in their own mind}. So do you really think they are evil or just really awfully screwed up? If one was really evil wouldn't they be doing these things in the name of evil?
Psychical Evidence And Reasoned Logic = PEARL
:D

My way of saying welcome ^.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#8990
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..I think you just want to be a jerk ...I see Torii gates in China town , and totems in Seattle ...nothing wrong with the ten commandments ,if the towns folk think it will benefit their society ..
Chinatown? The Chinatown courthouse maybe? Public property, is either fair game for every single religion, or it is off limits to all of them.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#8991
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>ehh..that's debatable theologians and biblical scholars can make a living ..usually teaching ..
It is their students who will need pictures on cash registers, to be able to command that minimum wage job.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#8992
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..Children are "precious" ..so , abortion is wrong...??
But the buybull includes instructions for causing the deliberate end of pregnancy, and it tells the cautionary tale of children who would dare to mock the bald, and it teaches that female chldren be raped, and their infant brothers be slain, and it teaches that there is great joy in ripping from thier mothers bodies, the as yet unborn children.

Children might be precious to human beings, but these things and so many more says, it doesn't come from the buybull god who would make a parent eat their children.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

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#8993
May 27, 2013
 
number four wrote:
<quoted text>..>> FIVE << ..Thou shall not kill ..
..God..
>..>> FIVE << ..Thou shall not kill ..
..Moses..

The buybull god has specific instructions to kill, again and again. But, I get that you couldn't know that, because it is hidden in the buybull unread portions.

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