10) Experts debate reality of God

10) Experts debate reality of God

There are 9041 comments on the Tulsa World story from May 8, 2010, titled 10) Experts debate reality of God. In it, Tulsa World reports that:

Christian apologist William Lane Craig made his best case for the existence of God, but in the end, his debate opponent, atheist Christopher Hitchens, remained unconvinced.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Tulsa World.

Since: Apr 08

Nottingham, UK

#4606 Aug 1, 2010
Mr Arkansas wrote:
<quoted text> Very interesting post sir.....good job!
You wouldn't be so supportive of him if you knew that he says the bible was lying when it tels us that Moses had over 600,000 men of fighting ability.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#4607 Aug 1, 2010
Mr Arkansas wrote:
<quoted text> Very interesting post sir.....good job!
Where is my scooter? Or my lightning bolt out of the clear blue?

Either one will do.
Paul WV

United States

#4608 Aug 1, 2010
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually, the only evidence relating to dump sites and pig bones that I'm immediately aware of is that the dump sites for Israelite sites in Canaan don't have pig bones, but that otherwise, they look exactly the same, indicating that the Israelites originated from Canaanite cultures and not from Egypt.
More to the point, there is an absence of reference to a massive "Exodus" in Egyptian sources (nor any references to Hebrews or Israelites). There isn't any doubt that Egypt ruled over Canaan where the Israelites were, so it isn't all that surprising that there would be an Israelite story about being "enslaved" by Egypt (except that it actually happened in Canaan, not Egypt).
For that matter, the presence of between 2.5 million and 3 million people living together within the Sinai Desert would have left evidence, but there isn't any. Sites specifically named in the Exodus story lack evidence of habitation in the time frames of the story.
Nice re-write of history; to bad for you it's an opinion and not fact.

The atheist poster said science has proven the Exodus never happened; I am still waiting the evidence.
Paul WV

United States

#4609 Aug 1, 2010
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Those chariots, swords, breastplates, shoes, clothing, jewelry and bones of an army drowned just seem to evaporated along with any other proof. How convenient, it keeps that faith thing, front and center.
I doubt they covered the entire Sea of Reeds or the Red Sea. Maybe if they start dredging down a few hundred feet they may find them.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#4610 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
Nice re-write of history; to bad for you it's an opinion and not fact.
Too bad for you that you can't produce a valid argument with evidence to refute what I wrote.
Paul WV wrote:
The atheist poster said science has proven the Exodus never happened; I am still waiting the evidence.
I've already addressed that. You keep ignoring it.
Paul WV

United States

#4611 Aug 1, 2010
the serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no author listed, much less that he is a scientist.
More dishonest crap Paul.... No surprise there.
If you looked you will see if reference scientific work that can esily be googled and checked out. Do I have to spoon feed you everything?

The point is the Shroud is the result of a miracle; proving Christianity is the one true religion.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#4612 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt they covered the entire Sea of Reeds or the Red Sea. Maybe if they start dredging down a few hundred feet they may find them.
Modern technology eliminates the need to dredge. You could empty both seas and sift the sand through a tea strainer and not find more than a few artifacts which if viewed with one eye closed, fingers cross behind your back and a blatant disregard for truth, could be stretched to almost fit the myth. That though should be enough to persuade you.
Paul WV

United States

#4613 Aug 1, 2010
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Modern technology eliminates the need to dredge. You could empty both seas and sift the sand through a tea strainer and not find more than a few artifacts which if viewed with one eye closed, fingers cross behind your back and a blatant disregard for truth, could be stretched to almost fit the myth. That though should be enough to persuade you.
That is just some made up baloney and proves nothing.
Paul WV

United States

#4614 Aug 1, 2010
Drew Smith wrote:
<quoted text>
Too bad for you that you can't produce a valid argument with evidence to refute what I wrote.
<quoted text>
I've already addressed that. You keep ignoring it.
If you addressed it, it must have been baloney if I keep ignoring it. I want to see a peer reviewed article saying they have proven the Exodus never occured. I am anxiously waiting your reply.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4615 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
The point is you say a negative can not be proven, and yet an atheist said science has proven the Exodus never happened. Is he right or wrong?
He is both.

On one hand, he is wrong in his wording as evidence can never be used to "disprove" something.

Yet on the other, he is bang on the money because until evidence is brought forward by those making the claim (ie, you), your story will be assumed to be make believe.

Have you got any evidence that your Exodus stories happened? No? Then it's not exactly hard to reach a conclusion here.

Now I have answered your question. Can you finally do the same and explain the difference between fact and opinion?
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4616 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
Yea, like pig bones found in all the dump sites? That is some proof, given that all the nomadic tribes used the same routes and dumped in the same dump sites. Do you have any more of that kind of proof?
Your opinions are not facts.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4617 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
An atheist made the claim science has proven the Exodus did not occur, so supply the evidence.
Sure, once you prove to us that Gone with the Wind didn't happen.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4618 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
It's the evidence you guys give to prove the Exodus did not occur. You guys claim that if the Exodus occurred there would be dump sites in the desert that did not have pig bones, because the Israelites did not eat pig. And I say this is baloney since both the Israelites and the non-Israelites probably travel the same routes and shared the same dump sites.
But, your opinions are not facts.

What evidence do you have that the Exodus stories happened?
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4619 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice re-write of history; to bad for you it's an opinion and not fact.
What is the difference between opinion and fact?

Are you admitting that you believe that your opinions are facts, and that facts you don't like are opinions?
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>The atheist poster said science has proven the Exodus never happened; I am still waiting the evidence.
We're waiting for the evidence that toys don't come to life like from Toy Story. Get busy.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4620 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
I doubt they covered the entire Sea of Reeds or the Red Sea. Maybe if they start dredging down a few hundred feet they may find them.
But that's all your side has: "maybes", "ifs", etc.

How about if you're sooo confident that your bible stories were real, YOU get your lazy do-nothing-Christlike ass off the internet, get a plane to the Red Sea, and scour all over the sea bed for the evidence that will give you instant stardom?

No? Thought not. "Maybe" indeed.
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4621 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
If you looked you will see if reference scientific work that can esily be googled and checked out. Do I have to spoon feed you everything?
The point is the Shroud is the result of a miracle; proving Christianity is the one true religion.
Argument from ignorance: "I dunno how the shroud was made so magic did it".
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4622 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
That is just some made up baloney and proves nothing.
So says the man who believes his opinions are facts and facts he doesn't like are opinions.

Since: Feb 08

Tampa, FL

#4623 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
If you addressed it, it must have been baloney if I keep ignoring it.
No, you're ignoring it because you don't want to deal with it.
Paul WV wrote:
I want to see a peer reviewed article saying they have proven the Exodus never occured.
From the peer-reviewed article "The Old Testament and archaeology", written by Pieter J. Lalleman, which appeared in the Autumn 2008 issue of Evangel:

"Another specific example of absence of evidence is the story of the exodus from Egypt, the journey through the wilderness and the settlement in Canaan...there is as yet no direct
evidence that this part of the Old Testament is historically
reliable."

Then we have the peer-reviewed article "An alternative hypothesis for a historical Exodus event", written by K.L. Noll, which appeared in the November 2000 issue of the Scandinavian Journal of the Old Testament:

"...the question of a possibly historical departure from
Egypt by a group of Semites in antiquity is one that has been all but
abandoned in mainstream historical research."
SupaAFC

Leicester, UK

#4624 Aug 1, 2010
Paul WV wrote:
<quoted text>
If you addressed it, it must have been baloney if I keep ignoring it. I want to see a peer reviewed article saying they have proven the Exodus never occured. I am anxiously waiting your reply.
That's like demanding for a peer-reviewed science article that explicitly states that an apple is not an orange.

Why are you so, so dishonest Paul? And even if by some miracle we found such a citation, you would dismiss it as "baloney" because you consider facts you don't like as opinions.

We're done with your wild goose chases. It's time for the team MAKING THE CLAIM (ie, you guys) to do the legwork instead of continually hiding behind fallacies like a coward.

Did Jesus argue like this?
Brahma Rules

Chino Hills, CA

#4625 Aug 1, 2010
What if the true God was greater than this universe? "I keep this universe alive with a fraction of my power" and "God stretched out the galaxies like a curtain."

What if what we call evil is simply the result of the laws of physics and karma? "For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction" and "Whatever you give out is what you will receive in return."

What if we are intelligent cells within the larger intelligence who designed and created this and many other universes? "As within the microcosm, so in the macrocosm" and "I said that you are gods."

Learning about Brahman and Brahma (Wikipedia) are your starting points. The laws of physics and metaphysics are your study materials tao learn the secrets of the universe.

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