The Issue About Time and Space

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#124 Aug 14, 2012
By scientifically observable data that is tested and retested.

Can I help you catch up on anything else?
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
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Everyone is born stupid; I mean, without knowing anything. Where did you get to know what and how something happened billions of years ago? Have mercy on yourself!
Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#125 Aug 14, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Abraham left the Jews to plant monotheism somewhere else? What would that be Islam? Face palm! Wait it gets worse. Aaron made the golden calf Ben he wasn't a slave in Egypt as the myth says so what's the excuse there? Wait it gets even worse! God directed Moses to make the copper snake ( a symbol of the goddess and wife of god Ashera ) so how does your animal gods of Egypt analogy stack up there? Poorly.
You're a Muslim yes Ben?
<quoted text>
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Yes, Abraham left Ur of the Caldeans, where he used to live to establish Monotheism among his own people in Canaan. Islam was not organized by Abraham but by Muhammad in the 7th Century ACE. I thought you knew these things.

Aaron was forced to allow the building of the calf because he was under the threat of death. According to Judaism, to save a life is more important than to obey the Law.

God directed nothing. Moses made the snake of brass so that Israel would never forget why they rioted in the desert by reminding themselves of their insubordination.

No, I am not a Muslim; I am Jewish. I thought you should know it by now.

Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#126 Aug 14, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
So when a genius in silicone valley is using his education and imagination to create to innovations in computing processors he is being esoteric?
Oh and another thing Ben you do realize that Abraham would have been long since dead when Moses came around yes? I know the Quran teaches that Abraham, Moses and Jesus all lived t the same time but this is wrong big time wrong even going by the legends and folklore.
Face palm! To be a Muslim you have to believe some really wacky stuff! For example Muhammad didn't die but flew into heaven on a gay flying horse yet Muhammad is said to be burried at Mecca. I guess after he flew to heaven on the gay horse his body fell and went splat but his spirit kept going??
<quoted text>
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I know nothing of that sort. Ask a Muslim.
Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#127 Aug 14, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
By scientifically observable data that is tested and retested.
Can I help you catch up on anything else?
<quoted text>
--------

Yes, where did the matter that caused the big bang come from? IOW,
what was there before the big bang happened? I am sure you know these things.

Ben
redneck

Glendale, OR

#128 Aug 14, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
--------
Yes, Abraham left Ur of the Caldeans, where he used to live to establish Monotheism among his own people in Canaan. Islam was not organized by Abraham but by Muhammad in the 7th Century ACE. I thought you knew these things.
Aaron was forced to allow the building of the calf because he was under the threat of death. According to Judaism, to save a life is more important than to obey the Law.
God directed nothing. Moses made the snake of brass so that Israel would never forget why they rioted in the desert by reminding themselves of their insubordination.
No, I am not a Muslim; I am Jewish. I thought you should know it by now.
Ben
Do you know why the Zealots committed suicide at Masada?

“ecrasez l'infame”

Since: May 08

Atlanta, Georgia

#129 Aug 14, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
--------
Yes, where did the matter that caused the big bang come from? IOW,
what was there before the big bang happened? I am sure you know these things.
Ben
Hey. Well at least you're in the right thread now! Welcome!

And to answer your question ---

It was magically **poofed** into existence by an invisible turtle.

Actually, we don't know. But then, neither do you. The difference is, I don't find a need to make stuff up, you do.

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#130 Aug 14, 2012
Invisible turtle is as reasonable as Yahweh scientifically speaking.
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey. Well at least you're in the right thread now! Welcome!
And to answer your question ---
It was magically **poofed** into existence by an invisible turtle.
Actually, we don't know. But then, neither do you. The difference is, I don't find a need to make stuff up, you do.
havent forgotten

Lamoni, IA

#131 Aug 14, 2012
Mikko wrote:
"The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish. No interpretation no matter how subtle can (for me) change this."
-- Albert Einstein
very sensible with regard to the Biblical God. but that is not the only type of concept of God, and it makes sense to ask if people mean the Biblical God, or some other concept, when they say that they believe - or disbelieve.

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#132 Aug 14, 2012
It is sensible reasoning for all supernatural deities.
havent forgotten wrote:
<quoted text> very sensible with regard to the Biblical God. but that is not the only type of concept of God, and it makes sense to ask if people mean the Biblical God, or some other concept, when they say that they believe - or disbelieve.

Since: Dec 10

Fogelsville, PA

#133 Aug 15, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
-----
The universe is made out of matter. Matter is subject to the "law" of genesis and destruction. I mean, origin and end. There is nothing without a beginning and an end as matter is concerned. And no one can assert for sure that something of billions of years ago
happened this or that way. Nobody knows. This is the same as to believe by faith in what one cannot explain what he or she believes. No wonder some Cosmologists refer to the big bang as a
"our modern myth."
Ben
If you believe what you say, than any creator must also be made of matter, as non-matter cannot create matter. If your creator is made of matter, where is he?

Since: Dec 10

Fogelsville, PA

#134 Aug 15, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
---------
Everyone is born stupid; I mean, without knowing anything. Where did you get to know what and how something happened billions of years ago? Have mercy on yourself!
Ben
It does not change the fact that everyone is born an atheist. Period. Simply put, god is NOT self evident. Also the difference between speculation and reality is easy to understand. You are being dishonest(no surprise), by comparing the two.

Since: Dec 10

Fogelsville, PA

#135 Aug 15, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
--------
Yes, where did the matter that caused the big bang come from? IOW,
what was there before the big bang happened? I am sure you know these things.
Ben
Even if we do not know where it came from, saying "goddidit" is NOT the answer. To be intellectually honest, you must than ask where your god came from. non matter cannot create matter.

Since: Mar 11

Ft Mitchell, KY

#136 Aug 15, 2012
Well said! I always get a kick out of the special pleading rejects who say Uhhhhhh well God needn't follow our rules of science except when we say he does! Lol
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if we do not know where it came from, saying "goddidit" is NOT the answer. To be intellectually honest, you must than ask where your god came from. non matter cannot create matter.

Since: Dec 10

Fogelsville, PA

#137 Aug 16, 2012
Givemeliberty wrote:
Well said! I always get a kick out of the special pleading rejects who say Uhhhhhh well God needn't follow our rules of science except when we say he does! Lol
<quoted text>
My yes, there is a double standard for sure. The theists love to say "You can't create something from nothing", but that's exactly what they claim their god did. It's like when they say, "Everything has to have a begining".... Except god. LOL!!!

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#138 Aug 20, 2012
redneck wrote:
<quoted text>Do you know why the Zealots committed suicide at Masada?
---------

Because they were stupid cowards. They probably had forgotten that life in Judaism is more important than freedom. As long as one lives there is always the chance to get freedom. With death, it is all over.

Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#139 Aug 20, 2012
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Hey. Well at least you're in the right thread now! Welcome!
And to answer your question ---
It was magically **poofed** into existence by an invisible turtle.
Actually, we don't know. But then, neither do you. The difference is, I don't find a need to make stuff up, you do.
----------

Yes, I was aware that you don't know these things. The only thing you know for sure is that the probability that the universe could
speak of God's handiwork, according to Psalm 19:1 is zero. But for the option for this impossibility, you have no idea. It tells me that all you have is a grudge against the opinions of theists and nothing else to replace them with.

Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#140 Aug 20, 2012
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
If you believe what you say, than any creator must also be made of matter, as non-matter cannot create matter. If your creator is made of matter, where is he?
-------

I understand you. You cannot conceive these things because you are
unable to think in the abstract level of reality. Tell me, how many times is 7 found in 77?

Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#141 Aug 20, 2012
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
It does not change the fact that everyone is born an atheist. Period. Simply put, god is NOT self evident. Also the difference between speculation and reality is easy to understand. You are being dishonest(no surprise), by comparing the two.
----------

Yes, I understand that method. When a theist attempts to say something about the existence of the universe as a result of God, he is dishonest. But when atheists speak of the universe as a result of the big bang and does not know how to explain it, he is not dishonest but surprised. You guys never cease amazing me.

Ben

Since: Nov 09

Location hidden

#142 Aug 20, 2012
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if we do not know where it came from, saying "goddidit" is NOT the answer. To be intellectually honest, you must than ask where your god came from. non matter cannot create matter.
----------

I don't know and you don't know. Why not stand in between? Why do we have to vandalize other people's opinions if we do not have an option of our own to replace them with? This is what intellectual dishonesty is.

Ben
redneck

Glendale, OR

#143 Aug 20, 2012
Ben_Masada wrote:
<quoted text>
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Because they were stupid cowards. They probably had forgotten that life in Judaism is more important than freedom. As long as one lives there is always the chance to get freedom. With death, it is all over.
Ben
Actually, They knew that all the men would be crucified and women would be enslaved. Scarey

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