Thinking

York, UK

#470 Jul 3, 2013
Which is why they spam so much rubbish - to hide from reality.
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
That command is literally written into their "holy" books, too.

Since: Dec 08

Oldsmar, FL

#471 Jul 3, 2013
I_see_you wrote:
<quoted text>
Just for the sake of asking....If god does exist, then who or what caused him/her into existence?
A number of skeptics ask this question. But God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so the question ‘Who created God?’ is illogical, just like ‘To whom is the bachelor married?’
So a more sophisticated questioner might ask:‘If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn’t God need a cause? And if God doesn’t need a cause, why should the universe need a cause?’ In reply, we should use the following reasoning:

Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
The universe has a beginning.
Therefore, the universe has a cause.

It’s important to stress the words in bold type. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as will be shown below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn’t need a cause. In addition, Einstein’s general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. Therefore, time itself would have begun along with matter and space.

Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, he is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time — God is “the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity”(Isa. 57:15). Therefore, He doesn’t have a cause.

In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.

1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, or entropy is increasing to a maximum.

If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever; otherwise, it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible.

So the obvious corollary is that the universe began a finite time ago with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.
In addition, the universe cannot be self-caused—nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity.

IN SUMMARY

The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have had a beginning.

It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause.

The universe therefore requires a cause, just as (Gen. 1:1) and (Rom. 1:20) teach.

God, as creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore He has no beginning in time, He has always existed, so doesn’t need a cause.

A FINAL THOUGHT

The Bible informs us that time is a dimension that God created, into which man was subjected. It even tells us that one day time will no longer exist. That will be called "eternity”. God Himself dwells outside of the dimension He created (2 Tim. 1:9, Titus 1:2). He dwells in eternity and is not subject to time. God spoke history before it came into being. He can move through time as a man flips through a history book.

Because we live in the dimension of time, it is impossible for us to fully understand anything that does not have a beginning and an end. Simply accept that fact, and believe the concept of God's eternal nature the same way you believe the concept of space having no beginning and end—by faith—even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum.

http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c039.ht...

“Right click Left click Yay!”

Since: Dec 10

Nehwon

#473 Jul 3, 2013
PSA

Apparently, "bangs on his drum" is flagged by Topix as profanity.
Thinking

York, UK

#474 Jul 4, 2013
I've had "slap" flagged that way too.
greymouser wrote:
PSA
Apparently, "bangs on his drum" is flagged by Topix as profanity.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#475 Jul 4, 2013
Pahu wrote:
<quoted text>
A number of skeptics ask this question. But God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe, so the question ‘Who created God?’ is illogical, just like ‘To whom is the bachelor married?’
So a more sophisticated questioner might ask:‘If the universe needs a cause, then why doesn’t God need a cause? And if God doesn’t need a cause, why should the universe need a cause?’ In reply, we should use the following reasoning:
Everything that has a beginning has a cause.
The universe has a beginning.
Therefore, the universe has a cause.
It’s important to stress the words in bold type. The universe requires a cause because it had a beginning, as will be shown below. God, unlike the universe, had no beginning, so doesn’t need a cause. In addition, Einstein’s general relativity, which has much experimental support, shows that time is linked to matter and space. Therefore, time itself would have begun along with matter and space.
Since God, by definition, is the creator of the whole universe, he is the creator of time. Therefore He is not limited by the time dimension He created, so has no beginning in time — God is “the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity”(Isa. 57:15). Therefore, He doesn’t have a cause.
In contrast, there is good evidence that the universe had a beginning. This can be shown from the Laws of Thermodynamics, the most fundamental laws of the physical sciences.
1st Law: The total amount of mass-energy in the universe is constant.
2nd Law: The amount of energy available for work is running out, or entropy is increasing to a maximum.
If the total amount of mass-energy is limited, and the amount of usable energy is decreasing, then the universe cannot have existed forever; otherwise, it would already have exhausted all usable energy—the ‘heat death’ of the universe. For example, all radioactive atoms would have decayed, every part of the universe would be the same temperature, and no further work would be possible.
So the obvious corollary is that the universe began a finite time ago with a lot of usable energy, and is now running down.
In addition, the universe cannot be self-caused—nothing can create itself, because that would mean that it existed before it came into existence, which is a logical absurdity.
IN SUMMARY
The universe (including time itself) can be shown to have had a beginning.
It is unreasonable to believe something could begin to exist without a cause.
The universe therefore requires a cause, just as (Gen. 1:1) and (Rom. 1:20) teach.
God, as creator of time, is outside of time. Since therefore He has no beginning in time, He has always existed, so doesn’t need a cause.
A FINAL THOUGHT
The Bible informs us that time is a dimension that God created, into which man was subjected. It even tells us that one day time will no longer exist. That will be called "eternity”. God Himself dwells outside of the dimension He created (2 Tim. 1:9, Titus 1:2). He dwells in eternity and is not subject to time. God spoke history before it came into being. He can move through time as a man flips through a history book.
Because we live in the dimension of time, it is impossible for us to fully understand anything that does not have a beginning and an end. Simply accept that fact, and believe the concept of God's eternal nature the same way you believe the concept of space having no beginning and end—by faith—even though such thoughts put a strain on our distinctly insufficient cerebrum.
http://christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c039.ht...
You're just a simple coward with no proof of god. I pity your ignorance.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#476 Jul 4, 2013
Pahu wrote:
Nope.

Both of those sites? LIARS FOR JEWSUS.

Cannot be trusted to be factual.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#477 Jul 4, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Which is why they spam so much rubbish - to hide from reality.
<quoted text>
Yes.

They have no facts-- so they SPAM.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#478 Jul 4, 2013
Pahu wrote:
<quoted text>
A number of skeptics ask this question. But God by definition is the uncreated creator of the universe,
No need-- the universe is neither created, nor in need of a cause.

You fail.
LCN Llin

United States

#479 Jul 4, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You're just a simple coward with no proof of god. I pity your ignorance.
Critical reading and critical thinking are intertwined. Review your post to learn more about how to evaluate the information that you have discovered during your unsuccessful reading process.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#480 Jul 4, 2013
LCN Llin wrote:
<quoted text>
Critical reading and critical thinking are intertwined. Review your post to learn more about how to evaluate the information that you have discovered during your unsuccessful reading process.
If your god was real, you would not need to convince us by lying to us.

“Valar Morghulis”

Since: Jun 13

All Men Must Die

#481 Jul 4, 2013
The best thing about god is that you can invent him to be anything your imagination can contrive, like an imaginary friend on steroids
LCN Llin

United States

#482 Jul 4, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
If your god was real, you would not need to convince us by lying to us.
It is time to discuss about what readers, in general, would want to read and what they don’t want to. There are just writings that people tend to flock to or avoid at any cost. There are several factors involved in identifying what readers will surely want to read, regardless of the subject.

Writing is not just writing as an Idiot, it is also an art that should be made closer to perfection with every words.
Thinking

York, UK

#483 Jul 4, 2013
Spamtard.
LCN Llin wrote:
<quoted text>
Critical reading and critical thinking are intertwined. Review your post to learn more about how to evaluate the information that you have discovered during your unsuccessful reading process.
LCN Llin

United States

#484 Jul 6, 2013
Thinking wrote:
Spamtard.
<quoted text>
Writers often think of paragraphs as units of length, but the paragraph measures something more abstract than inches of paper: it measures ideas, not so much in your posts.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#485 Jul 7, 2013
LCN Llin wrote:
<quoted text>
Writers often think of paragraphs as units of length, but the paragraph measures something more abstract than inches of paper: it measures ideas, not so much in your posts.
When they realise that they cannot convert atheists, some creationists just behave like this, to feel like they are participating.

At least you haven't threatened us with a non-specific yet horrific event from your imagination yet...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#486 Jul 7, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
When they realise that they cannot convert atheists, some creationists just behave like this, to feel like they are participating.
At least you haven't threatened us with a non-specific yet horrific event from your imagination yet...
Desperate for attention, these True Believers™ will try literally anything to get just one more response.

This is understandable: they crave attention because their imaginary god isn't giving them any....

Since: Dec 08

Palm Harbor, FL

#487 Jul 10, 2013
-Skeptic- wrote:
<quoted text>
You're just a simple coward with no proof of god. I pity your ignorance.
Science Proves God

When we set out to explain why and how something happens, we must use the evidence, facts and experience available to us if we are to arrive at a logical conclusion. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that the universe had a beginning and that before that beginning there was no universe and therefore there was nothing. We know this because of the Law of Causality (for every cause there is an effect and for every effect there is a cause). Based on this law, we can use the following logic:

1. The universe exists.
2. The universe had a beginning.
3. Before the beginning of the universe, there was no universe.
4. Since there was no universe, there was nothing.
5. Since the universe does exist, it came from nothing.
6. Something does not come from nothing by any natural cause.
7. Therefore the cause of the universe is supernatural.
8. Life exists.
9. Life always comes from pre-existing life of the same kind (the Law of Biogenesis).
10. Life cannot come from nonliving matter by any natural cause.
11. Since life does exist, the cause of life is supernatural.

Many people with a naturalistic worldview assume everything can be explained by natural causes. From the beginning, they reject the possibility of a supernatural cause. Because of this they are left with no scientifically valid answers to the question of how the universe could come from nothing, which is impossible by any natural cause of which we are aware. Many answers have been proposed that go beyond the realm of known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation and therefore enter the realm of fiction.

The same logic applies to life. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that life only comes from pre-existing life of the same kind.

“Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the Law of Biogenesis. Evolution conflicts with this scientific law by claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes.”[From "In the Beginning" by Walt Brown]

Life never comes from non-living matter by any natural cause of which we are aware.

Now that we have seen proof that God exists, using logic based on known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we need to see if He has revealed Himself to us. In the Holy Bible there are hundreds of prophecies given by God who is speaking in the first person. In both Bible and secular history we find that those prophecies have been accurately fulfilled. No other writing on earth comes close to doing this! Only God can accurately reveal the future, ergo, He is the author of the Holy Bible. Within the pages of the Holy Bible He reveals His nature, our nature, His relationship to us, our need for salvation and His plan of salvation for us.

The reason the universe and life cannot come from nothing by any natural cause, but can come from a supernatural cause is because God is the self-existent creator of everything and everyone. He is not subject to His creation. He created it and sustains it. It is a mistake to judge God by human standards and human perspectives. God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

If you are interested in more detailed proof, read,“Evidence that Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.

[From "Reincarnation in the Bible?"]

Since: Dec 08

Palm Harbor, FL

#488 Jul 10, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
No need-- the universe is neither created, nor in need of a cause.
You fail.
The universe cannot be infinitely old or all useable energy would have been lost already (entropy). This has not occurred. Therefore, the universe is not infinitely old. Therefore, the universe had a beginning and since the universe is everything that exists, could it exist before it existed? Something cannot bring itself into existence. Therefore, something brought it into existence. What brought the universe into existence? It would have to be greater than the universe and be a sufficient cause to it.

All things that came into existence were caused to exist. You cannot have an infinite regression of causes (otherwise an infinity of time has been crossed which is impossible because an infinity cannot be crossed). Therefore, logically, there must be a single uncaused cause that has always existed.

Since: Dec 08

Palm Harbor, FL

#489 Jul 10, 2013
Fossil Gaps 5

“This regular absence of transitional forms is not confined to mammals, but is an almost universal phenomenon, as has long been noted by paleontologists. It is true of almost all orders of all classes of animals, both vertebrate and invertebrate. A fortiori, it is also true of the classes, themselves, and of the major animal phyla, and it is apparently also true of analogous categories of plants.” George Gaylord Simpson, Tempo and Mode in Evolution (New York: Columbia University Press, 1944), p. 107.

“... the geologic record did not then and still does not yield a finely graduated chain of slow and progressive evolution. In other words, there are not enough intermediates. There are very few cases where one can find a gradual transition from one species to another and very few cases where one can look at a part of the fossil record and actually see that organisms were improving in the sense of becoming better adapted.” Ibid. p. 23.

[From "In the Beginning" by Walt Brown]

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#490 Jul 10, 2013
Pahu wrote:
<quoted text>
Science Proves God
When we set out to explain why and how something happens, we must use the evidence, facts and experience available to us if we are to arrive at a logical conclusion. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that the universe had a beginning and that before that beginning there was no universe and therefore there was nothing. We know this because of the Law of Causality (for every cause there is an effect and for every effect there is a cause). Based on this law, we can use the following logic:
1. The universe exists.
2. The universe had a beginning.
3. Before the beginning of the universe, there was no universe.
4. Since there was no universe, there was nothing.
5. Since the universe does exist, it came from nothing.
6. Something does not come from nothing by any natural cause.
7. Therefore the cause of the universe is supernatural.
8. Life exists.
9. Life always comes from pre-existing life of the same kind (the Law of Biogenesis).
10. Life cannot come from nonliving matter by any natural cause.
11. Since life does exist, the cause of life is supernatural.
Many people with a naturalistic worldview assume everything can be explained by natural causes. From the beginning, they reject the possibility of a supernatural cause. Because of this they are left with no scientifically valid answers to the question of how the universe could come from nothing, which is impossible by any natural cause of which we are aware. Many answers have been proposed that go beyond the realm of known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation and therefore enter the realm of fiction.
The same logic applies to life. Using available evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we know that life only comes from pre-existing life of the same kind.
“Spontaneous generation (the emergence of life from nonliving matter) has never been observed. All observations have shown that life comes only from life. This has been observed so consistently it is called the Law of Biogenesis. Evolution conflicts with this scientific law by claiming that life came from nonliving matter through natural processes.”[From "In the Beginning" by Walt Brown]
Life never comes from non-living matter by any natural cause of which we are aware.
Now that we have seen proof that God exists, using logic based on known evidence, experience, facts, observation and experimentation, we need to see if He has revealed Himself to us. In the Holy Bible there are hundreds of prophecies given by God who is speaking in the first person. In both Bible and secular history we find that those prophecies have been accurately fulfilled. No other writing on earth comes close to doing this! Only God can accurately reveal the future, ergo, He is the author of the Holy Bible. Within the pages of the Holy Bible He reveals His nature, our nature, His relationship to us, our need for salvation and His plan of salvation for us.
The reason the universe and life cannot come from nothing by any natural cause, but can come from a supernatural cause is because God is the self-existent creator of everything and everyone. He is not subject to His creation. He created it and sustains it. It is a mistake to judge God by human standards and human perspectives. God reveals that He is omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.
If you are interested in more detailed proof, read,“Evidence that Demands a Verdict” by Josh McDowell.
[From "Reincarnation in the Bible?"]
Lying about god does not make your cult any more appealing.

When your cult teaches you honestly please let us know.

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