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Since: Dec 11

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#1685
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
"Archaeological discoveries continue to support the Bible's historical accuracy.
Archaeology has shown us that the Bible is not accurate. Exodus has been completely refuted and most of the history of the Israelites is junk too.
Langoliers wrote:
We tend to forget that the Gospels and book of Acts are eyewitness accounts of the life and death of Jesus.
They're not. They were written generations later by unknown authors and Matthew/Mark/Luke are all related (not independent writings).
Langoliers wrote:
Further nonbiblical evidence for Jesus' existence comes from the writings of Flavius Josephus, Cornelius Tacitus, Lucian of Samosata, and the Jewish Sanhedrin.
I didn't argue against Jesus' existence. Jesus was a first century Jewish cult leader who was probably executed.

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#1686
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
The Resurrection Proof #1: The Empty Tomb of Jesus
The empty tomb may be the strongest proof Jesus Christ rose from the dead.
Wow, that's pretty sad. There's no evidence there ever WAS an empty tomb so this 'proof' fails from the start.

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#1687
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
The Resurrection Proof #2: The Holy Women Eyewitnesses
The holy women eyewitnesses are further proof that the Gospels are accurate historical records.
That's not evidence of accuracy in any way, shape, or form.

If the witnesses were men, you'd say it was accurate because men were trustworthy.
If witnesses were women, you'd say it was accurate because they wouldn't have faked female witnesses.

Heads I win, tails you lose? Not evidence.

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#1688
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
The Resurrection Proof #3: Jesus' Apostles' New-Found Courage
After the crucifixion, Jesus' apostles hid behind locked doors, terrified they would be executed next.
This is Bible story-telling, not evidence.

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#1689
Dec 4, 2012
 

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Langoliers wrote:
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The Resurrection Proof #4: Changed Lives of James and Others
Changed lives are yet another proof of the resurrection.
No, they're not. They're evidence of religious devotion, which is found in every religion.

And again, Bible story-telling.

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#1690
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
The Resurrection Proof #5: Large Crowd of Eyewitnesses
A large crowd of more than 500 eyewitnesses saw the risen Jesus Christ at the same time. The Apostle Paul records this event in 1 Corinthians 15:6. He states that most of these men and women were still alive when he wrote this letter, about 55 A.D. Undoubtedly they told others about this miracle. Today, psychologists say it would be impossible for a large crowd of people to have had the same hallucination at once. Smaller groups also saw the risen Christ, such as the apostles, and Cleopas and his companion. They all saw the same thing, and in the case of the apostles, they touched Jesus and watched him eat food. The hallucination theory is further debunked because after the ascension of Jesus into heaven, sightings of him stopped.
Who needs a hallucination theory? The 500 witnesses are MADE UP.

My great-great-great-grandfather Bob shot lasers out of his eyes. 500 people saw him do it! Oh, do you have their names? Did they write about it? Nope, sorry.

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#1691
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
The Resurrection Proof #6: Conversion of Paul
The conversion of Paul records the most drastically changed life in the Bible. As Saul of Tarsus, he was an aggressive persecutor of the early church. When the risen Christ appeared to Paul on the Damascus Road, Paul became Christianity's most determined missionary. He endured five floggings, three beatings, three shipwrecks, a stoning, poverty, and years of ridicule. Finally the Roman emperor Nero had Paul beheaded because the apostle refused to deny his faith in Jesus. What could make a person willingly accept—even welcome—such hardships? Christians believe the conversion of Paul came about because he encountered Jesus Christ who had risen from the dead.
How is a conversion evidence? People convert to religions every day.

Paul's execution is Christian tradition, not actual history. But even if it were, it wouldn't be evidence. 914 people died for Jim Jones' cult. 39 people died in the Heaven's Gate cult. Many people died for Joseph Smith's Mormon cult.

Guess what? Religious people can be crazy, and being a martyr is considered a GOOD thing.

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#1692
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
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The Resurrection Proof #7: They Died for Jesus
Countless people have died for Jesus, absolutely certain that the resurrection of Christ is an historical fact. Tradition says ten of the original apostles died as martyrs for Christ, as did the Apostle Paul. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of early Christians died in the Roman arena and in prisons for their faith. Down through the centuries, thousands more have died for Jesus because they believed the resurrection is true. Even today, people suffer persecution because they have faith that Christ rose from the dead. An isolated group may give up their lives for a cult leader, but Christian martyrs have died in many lands, for nearly 2,000 years, believing Jesus conquered death to give them eternal life.
As I addressed in the previous post, countless people have died for every religion. It's not evidence of that religion's validity.

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#1693
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
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These passages indicate that Christianity was wide spread in the Roman empire within 80 years of Christ's death. Again, these are eyewitness accounts, not historians looking back years later.
The guys who wrote in 112 and 115 about Christians were eyewitness accounts?

It's impressive that Tacitus recorded Jesus' death at the ripe old age of NEGATIVE 25.

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#1694
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Again we have sources external to the Bible that demonstrate the historical reliability of the text. Josephus, who was probably alive during the time of Christ, is attesting to the reality of his existence.
Apparently you're too lazy to even read my posts. I said there were not historical accounts by anyone involved: Pilate, local historians, guards, etc.

And there aren't.

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#1695
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
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By itself. All alone! LOL
Dolt.
I'm a dolt? Look at the pathetically weak arguments you find convincing.

I could sell you a bag of sand in the desert if I drew a cross on it.

Since: Apr 12

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#1696
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Archaeology has shown us that the Bible is not accurate. Exodus has been completely refuted and most of the history of the Israelites is junk too.

Langoliers wrote, "
We tend to forget that the Gospels and book of Acts are eyewitness accounts of the life and death of Jesus."

They're not. They were written generations later by unknown authors and Matthew/Mark/Luke are all related (not independent writings).

Langoliers wrote, "
Further nonbiblical evidence for Jesus' existence comes from the writings of Flavius Josephus, Cornelius Tacitus, Lucian of Samosata, and the Jewish Sanhedrin.
"

I didn't argue against Jesus' existence. Jesus was a first century Jewish cult leader who was probably executed.
Well you're lying one cannot carrier on any worth while discussion when one side is lying.

"Enuma Elish—This is the Babylonian Creation Record. We also have the Ebla Creation Tablet. The Bible record is clearly superior to this as the Enuma Elish has creation from pre-existing matter, which really isn’t creation at all. The Bible is the true account of this historical event.
The Epic of Gilgamesh includes the Babylonian Flood Story. Again, the biblical record is greatly superior. As Nozomi Osanai wrote in her master’s thesis on a comparison between Noah’s Flood and the Gilgamish Epic,“According to the specifics, scientific reliability, internal consistency, the correspondence to the secular records, and the existence of common elements among the flood traditions around the world, the Genesis account seems to be more acceptable as an accurate historical record.”1

Part of the Gilgamesh Epic
Long-living Kings at Kish (Sumer)—These kings supposedly lived from 10,000 to 64,000 years ago. The Bible’s record is conservative and is the true account, while the Babylonian and other traditions have been embellished over time. It was later realized that the Babylonians had two bases for arithmetic calculations, based on either tens or sixties. When the records were retranslated using the system of tens rather than sixties, they came to a total within 200 years of the biblical record.
Major Evidences Regarding Genesis 11–36
This section contains Patriarchal records, with special reference to Abraham, the father of the Hebrews.
Abraham’s home city of Ur was excavated by Sir Leonard Woolley, with surprising evidence of near-luxury.2
The customs of Patriarchal times, as described in the Bible, are endorsed by archaeological finds at such places as Ur, Mari, Boghazkoi, and Nineveh. These were written records from that day—not just put down in writing many centuries later. They bear the marks of eyewitness reporting.

Ur Nammu, the king of Ur who claimed to build a famous tower
Thus, Abraham’s relationship with Hagar is seen in a different light by understanding that the woman who could not personally bear a child for her husband should provide him with one of her maidservants. In the Bible record we are told that it was Sarah who made the approach to Abraham, and her maid Hagar was a willing accomplice in having Abraham’s child. Thus, she gained economic security and personal prestige. We stress it was not Abraham who made the first approach to Hagar, but Abraham’s wife Sarah did in keeping with the customs of the day.
The records of the five kings who fought against four kings (Genesis 14) are interesting, in that the names of the people concerned fit the known words and names of the times."

Since: Apr 12

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#1697
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>None of this has anything to do with a tomb, guards, or the disappearance of a body.

My statement stands.
1. Craig's Arguments for the Historicity of the Empty Tomb Story

"Craig lists "ten lines of evidence" for the empirical claim that "Jesus' tomb was found empty on Sunday morning by a small group of his women followers."[4] Before listing his arguments, though, I want to point out that Craig's claim requires that the relevant parts of the Markan empty tomb story be true. This is because Paul's account does not mention the women, Craig agrees that Mark is the earliest of the four gospels, and all of the details found in the Markan story are found in the other three accounts.

Craig's ten lines of evidence for the historicity of the story are as follows:(1) the historical credibility of the burial story supports the empty tomb; (2) Paul's testimony implies the historicity of the empty tomb; (3) the presence of the empty tomb pericope in the pre-Markan passion story supports its historicity; (4) the use of 'on the first day of the week' instead of 'on the third day' points to the primitiveness of the tradition; (5) the narrative is theologically unadorned and nonapologetic; (6) the discovery of the tomb by women is highly probable; (7) the investigation of the empty tomb by Peter and John is historically probable; (8) it would have been impossible for the disciples to proclaim the resurrection in Jerusalem had the tomb not been empty; (9) Jewish polemic presupposes the empty tomb; and (10) Jesus' tomb was not venerated as a shrine. As I read him, it appears that Craig appeals to these facts as part of an inference to the best explanation.[5] I shall argue that Craig's inference is inductively weak."

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#1698
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
Well you're lying one cannot carrier on any worth while discussion when one side is lying.
Feel free to point out my "lies". My statements were accurate: archaeology shows the Bible to be filled with nonsense.

The Enuma Elish is a creation myth. Genesis, being written later, ripped it off. Neither myth is historical or accurate.

The same applies to Gilgamesh and Noah. Non-historical myths.

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#1699
Dec 4, 2012
 
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
1. Craig's Arguments for the Historicity of the Empty Tomb Story
"Craig lists "ten lines of evidence" for the empirical claim that "Jesus' tomb was found empty on Sunday morning by a small group of his women followers."[4] Before listing his arguments, though, I want to point out that Craig's claim requires that the relevant parts of the Markan empty tomb story be true. This is because Paul's account does not mention the women, Craig agrees that Mark is the earliest of the four gospels, and all of the details found in the Markan story are found in the other three accounts.
Craig's ten lines of evidence for the historicity of the story are as follows:(1) the historical credibility of the burial story supports the empty tomb; (2) Paul's testimony implies the historicity of the empty tomb; (3) the presence of the empty tomb pericope in the pre-Markan passion story supports its historicity; (4) the use of 'on the first day of the week' instead of 'on the third day' points to the primitiveness of the tradition; (5) the narrative is theologically unadorned and nonapologetic; (6) the discovery of the tomb by women is highly probable; (7) the investigation of the empty tomb by Peter and John is historically probable; (8) it would have been impossible for the disciples to proclaim the resurrection in Jerusalem had the tomb not been empty; (9) Jewish polemic presupposes the empty tomb; and (10) Jesus' tomb was not venerated as a shrine. As I read him, it appears that Craig appeals to these facts as part of an inference to the best explanation.[5] I shall argue that Craig's inference is inductively weak."
lol, you stole this from a site that refutes Craig's argument. Good job.
http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jeff_l...

There remains no evidence of an empty tomb. It is purely a Christian story.
Namu Myoho Renge Kyo

Los Angeles, CA

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#1700
Dec 5, 2012
 
Thinking

UK

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#1701
Dec 5, 2012
 
Poe, cretin or both?
Which are you?
Langoliers wrote:
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Yes the bible is clear. I'm going to heaven and you'll burn on hell.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#1702
Dec 5, 2012
 
I am factually right as usual. Let's see shall we. Burnt offering sacrifice or work at the temple?

Judges 11:31
New International Version (1984)
whatever comes out of the door of my house to meet me when I return in triumph from the Ammonites will be the LORD's, and I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

New Living Translation (2007)
I will give to the LORD whatever comes out of my house to meet me when I return in triumph. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

English Standard Version (2001)
then whatever comes out from the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the Ammonites shall be the LORDs, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

New American Standard Bible (1995)
then it shall be that whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return in peace from the sons of Ammon, it shall be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up as a burnt offering."

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Then it shall be, that whatsoever cometh forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

GOD'S WORD Translation (1995)
then whatever comes out of the doors of my house to meet me when I return safely from Ammon will belong to the LORD. I will sacrifice it as a burnt offering."

King James 2000 Bible (2003)
Then it shall be, that whatsoever comes forth of the doors of my house to meet me, when I return in peace from the children of Ammon, shall surely be the LORD'S, and I will offer it up for a burnt offering.

Shal I go on with dozens of others?

Burnt offering. Working at the temple would be a dream job!
The temple was like a palace and the priests ate the best foods and drank the best wine lived like royalty. Not much of a sacifice
and certainly not a burnt offering. Yes she died a virgin bcause you can't have sex with the smoldering remains of a little girl!

Well the Prophet Muhammad would have found a way I suppose :)
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Clueless. Typic from "givemeabrain"

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#1703
Dec 5, 2012
 
That child was gunned down by worshippers of YOUR God for asking that girls be allowed to get an equal education along with males.

I consider her a hero, I see you do not.
Langoliers wrote:
<quoted text>
You know that's the worst avatar picture you've used so far. I can't take anything you say seriously looking at that ridiculers avatar.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

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#1704
Dec 5, 2012
 
Believers opinions mean jack Sht. Historical proof or fail.

http://www.nobeliefs.com/exist.htm

Jospehus, Tacitus, Plutarch and amny others all wrote about Hercules. So we have by far more historical proof for Hercules than we have for Jesus.

I won't spike the football by showing the Pre Jesus Statues, coins, scrolls, paintings, ect ect ect showing Hercules.

My facts stand so eat it apologetics with your lame opinions.
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"H. G. Wells, British writer, 1866-1946
When asked which person left the most permanent impression on history, he replied that judging a person’s greatness by historical standards:
“By this test, Jesus stands first.”
“I am a historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.”
“Christ is the most unique person of history. No man can write a history of the human race without giving first and foremost place to the penniless teacher of Nazareth.”
Kenneth Scott Latourette, former President of American Historic Society
In A History of Christianity:
“It is evidence of His importance, of the effect that He has had upon history and presumably, of the baffling mystery of His being that no other life ever lived on this planet has evoked so huge a volume of literature among so many people and languages, and that, far from ebbing, the flood continues to mount.”
“As the centuries pass by, the evidence is accumulating that measured by its effect on history, Jesus is the most influential life ever lived on this planet. The influence appears to be mounting.”
“No other life lived on this planet has so widely and deeply affected mankind.”
George Bancroft, great American historian
“I find the name of Jesus Christ written on the top of every page of modern history.”"
http://www.why-jesus.com/history.htm

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