Noah's flood real

Posted in the Atheism Forum

Comments (Page 77)

Showing posts 1,521 - 1,540 of4,534
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
KJV

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1662
Dec 4, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Yes this is a comforting apologetic lie. But the bible is clear even if you don't like it. Does Jephtha promise Yahweh whatever comes out of his house first will serve in the temple all their life? Nope and women wouldn't be allowed to do this anyways.

No it is crystal clear Jephtha promises Yahweh a burnt offering of whatever came out of his house first. His daughter came out. He tore at his clothes because he promised Yahweh a burnt offering and knew he HAD to keep THAT promise. If she was just going to chill at the temple why would he be so upset? Oh ya he promised a burnt offering and when you make a promise to Yahweh you keep it, no matter how difficult it is. After two months he kept his promise to Yahweh of a burnt offering which was sadly his daughter.
Clueless. Typic from "givemeabrain"
KJV

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1663
Dec 4, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Yes Christian scholars believe in Jesus no surprise there. Bottom line the uncomfortable truth that more and more of these so called scholars are cringing at is showing any historical proof that he ever existed. Not a single contemporary historian wrote a word about Jesus. The closest we have is the forged passages of Josephus which were placed in it over 100 years after Jesus was said to die. Even the Josephus passages merely state what Christians at the time said Josephus never met him.

Not a word written by any roman or Jewish officials at the time and even Christians didn't write a single word about him until over 50 years after his death?? Say what?

No proof he ever existed. Fact.
"H. G. Wells, British writer, 1866-1946

When asked which person left the most permanent impression on history, he replied that judging a person’s greatness by historical standards:

“By this test, Jesus stands first.”

“I am a historian, I am not a believer, but I must confess as a historian that this penniless preacher from Nazareth is irrevocably the very center of history. Jesus Christ is easily the most dominant figure in all history.”

“Christ is the most unique person of history. No man can write a history of the human race without giving first and foremost place to the penniless teacher of Nazareth.”

Kenneth Scott Latourette, former President of American Historic Society

In A History of Christianity:

“It is evidence of His importance, of the effect that He has had upon history and presumably, of the baffling mystery of His being that no other life ever lived on this planet has evoked so huge a volume of literature among so many people and languages, and that, far from ebbing, the flood continues to mount.”

“As the centuries pass by, the evidence is accumulating that measured by its effect on history, Jesus is the most influential life ever lived on this planet. The influence appears to be mounting.”

“No other life lived on this planet has so widely and deeply affected mankind.”

George Bancroft, great American historian

“I find the name of Jesus Christ written on the top of every page of modern history.”"

http://www.why-jesus.com/history.htm
KJV

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1664
Dec 4, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
" http://www.thegracetabernacle.org/quotes/Jesu...

The Impact of Jesus on Religion and Politics
by Abdul H. Manraj

Jesus is probably the most misunderstood religious personality in the history of the world. He never claimed divinity and was as human as the prophets who preceded him. From a theological perspective, arguments can be made to support any religious dogma regardless of which denomination one subscribes to, and religious texts can be interpreted in any number of ways, some of them quite nebulous, to bolster a particular argument or belief.

That being the case, this article will approach the above subject from a historical perspective, and provide some substantial evidence that is quite irrefutable, using both historical data as well as sacred texts to defend the postulation regarding Jesus. The information presented below aims to prove that Jesus was no more than a revered prophet of God, and his “second coming” is a myth. Jesus confirmed his humanity when he reportedly said:“I can of mine own self do nothing...”(John 5:30) Nevertheless, millions (possibly billions) of people in the world today have a vested interest in the “second coming” of Jesus, the very foundation of their belief is riding on this prophecy. As such, his elevation to godly status has some profound implications not only on religion but also on politics, with dire consequences for the future of all humanity.


The Status of Jesus

Jesus was born a Jew, and since he did not preach a new religion or change any laws (Matthew 5:17), he died as a Jew, supposedly betrayed by his own people, who (according to the New Testament) said:“…His blood be on us, and on our children.”(Matthew 27:25) Jesus’ disciples believed that he was the “Messiah” or “Anointed One.” Other titles applied to Jesus were Prophet and Rabbi. According to both the Bible and the Quran (the divine book of Muslims), Jesus came into being through a miraculous virgin birth, i.e., he was born without the intervention of a human father. Both religious texts concur that God has the power to make such miracles happen.

The two texts differ significantly over Jesus’ status. Whereas the New Testament elevated Jesus to divinity, the Quran emphasized his humanity, comparing his creation to that of Adam. Jesus, the son of Mary, delivered the same message as the prophets before him, i.e.,“Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord.”(Deuteronomy 6:4) Neither the word “Trinity” nor this doctrine is explicitly found in the New Testament. In fact, the ideology developed over several centuries after the death of Jesus. There are many factors that led to the outcome of the Trinity concept, some of which will be briefly addressed in this article.
KJV

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1665
Dec 4, 2012
 
Givemeliberty wrote:
<quoted text>Yes Christian scholars believe in Jesus no surprise there. Bottom line the uncomfortable truth that more and more of these so called scholars are cringing at is showing any historical proof that he ever existed. Not a single contemporary historian wrote a word about Jesus. The closest we have is the forged passages of Josephus which were placed in it over 100 years after Jesus was said to die. Even the Josephus passages merely state what Christians at the time said Josephus never met him.

Not a word written by any roman or Jewish officials at the time and even Christians didn't write a single word about him until over 50 years after his death?? Say what?

No proof he ever existed. Fact.
Part 2

"Pauline Christianity

It is believed that Jesus was born in Bethlehem, located in present day Israel. All of the prophets mentioned in the Bible (and Quran) originated from various areas of the Middle East. Paul, not Jesus, is primarily responsible for the current Christian creed based on the doctrine of the Trinity (God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit). Saul was a Jew who reportedly persecuted the early Christians. His name was later changed to Paul, probably because the name Saul was associated with Judaism. One day on his way to Damascus, Paul had a vision that resulted in his conversion. Following this incident, Paul became the most ardent missionary of Christianity.(Noss 466-467) In his book “The 100: A Ranking of the Most Influential Persons in History,” Michael Hart lists Muhammad first, followed by Paul, and then Jesus. Hart proposes that the honor for the spread of Christianity has to be shared between Paul and Jesus. Apparently Paul won because he wrote more books of the Bible than any other author, whereas Jesus did not write a single word. It should also be noted that Paul never even met Jesus.

Since Jesus did not write any of his teachings, historians are generally in agreement that the writings that have come down to us in the New Testament have been amplified with the predispositions of the early Christians, thus displacing the original teachings of Jesus.(Noss 446) More than three centuries after Jesus was reportedly crucified, there were many controversies and minutiae surrounding his status. Emperor Constantine called the first ecumenical council of the Christian church in ancient Nicaea (now Iznik, Turkey) in 325 CE to resolve the issue. He hoped that a general council would solve the problem created in the Eastern church by Arianism, a “heresy” first proposed by Arius of Alexandria, which affirmed that Jesus was not divine but a created being. The council condemned Arius and incorporated the non-scriptural word homoousios(of one substance) into what later became known as the Nicene Creed, signifying the absolute equality of the Son (Jesus) with the Father (God). Emperor Constantine then exiled Arius. To differ from the official and final version of this new theology – which essentially stated that Jesus was God incarnate – was blasphemy.(“Encyclopedia Britannica Online”)"
KJV

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1666
Dec 4, 2012
 
Part 3

Christianity later became the official religion of the Roman Empire under Theodosius, and there were attempts at formalization and uniformity within the church regarding the doctrine of the Trinity. This did not stop the controversy, and there were more ecumenical council debates between western and eastern Christians for generations. Western Christian theology eventually dominated. The result was that Christians, particularly in the East, who disagreed with the newly mandated doctrine of the Trinity, were ostracized and persecuted. In some cases, those who rejected the new doctrine were put to death as the concept eventually took hold.

The Europeans were immersed in paganism when Jesus was born, and it took about eight centuries before all of Europe finally accepted Christianity as their creed. During such a lengthy period, it was only natural that some pagan beliefs and practices were incorporated into the new religion. For example, December 25th was a popular Roman holiday that celebrated the winter solstice as a symbol of the resurgence of the sun, which heralded the rebirth of spring and summer. The birth of the sun became synonymous with the birth of the Son of God, which is now commonly accepted as Jesus’ birthday. The actual birthday of Jesus cannot be precisely determined, as Christians did not begin to reckon time before and after the birth of Jesus until about six centuries after he was born.(Noss 450) Another example of a pre-Christian ritual is the veneration of the evergreen tree in western and northern Europe, particularly in Germany during pagan times, so the “Christmas tree” was added to the birthday celebration of Jesus.
KJV

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1667
Dec 4, 2012
 
Part 4

For thousands of years prior to the birth of Jesus, the Indo-Europeans had developed a tripartite ideology. At the highest level was a “sky god,” who sees all human activity from his heavenly abode. The second part of heaven reflected heroic warriors and raiders supported by a war/thunder god. The third part of this Indo-European belief was the pursuit of happiness – a universal human trait.(Winn 4-5) This tripartite scheme was prevalent in many aspects of Indo-European culture, and is evident even today. Examples include many nations’ flags that are made up of three colors, and governments that are divided into three branches – executive, legislative, and judicial.

Pre-Christian Europeans ritually sacrificed humans to their pagan gods.(Winn 45-47) As the Europeans gradually started to move away from paganism and adopt their newly discovered Middle Eastern religion – Christianity – the idolatrous tradition of human sacrifice blended harmoniously with the new theology – the sacrifice of God’s only begotten son for the sins of all humanity. The tripartite hierarchy that was so embedded in Indo-European culture for thousands of years played an influential role in the development of a doctrine based on a triune God, viz., God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit.

Was it a Crucifixion or Cruci-fiction?

According to the Bible, Jesus was not the only “Son of God”– there were others as shown in the verses below (italics mine):
“That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.”(Genesis 6: 2)
“There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men, and they bare children to them, the same became mighty men which were of old, men of renown.”(Genesis 6:4)
“And thou shalt say unto Pharoah, Thus saith the Lord, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:”(Exodus 4:22)
“I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begottenthee.”(i.e., David – Psalms 2:7)
“They shall come with weeping, and with supplications, will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a Father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn.”(Jeremiah 31:9)
“Which was the son of Enos, which was the son of Seth, which was the son of Adam, which was theSon of God.”(Luke 3:38)

The Bible also states that a man can only die once:“And as it is appointed for men to die once, but after this the judgment.”(Hebrews 9:27) For Jesus to be resurrected shortly after his death, he would certainly have had to be divine. The chronology shown in the verses below are hardly any indication that Jesus died on the cross. According to the New Testament (Matthew 27:45-46), Jesus was placed on the cross by the 6th hour (around noon), and he (God incarnate) supposedly cried out:“My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?” He was taken down by the 9th hour (around 3:00pm), only three hours later. This was rather peculiar, in fact, Pilate marveled that Jesus was dead already after being on the cross for only three hours.(Mark 15:44) Since it was Friday and the Jews were anxious to bury Jesus before Saturday – the Sabbath – his crucifixion and burial were apparently expedited.

None of Jesus’ faithful disciples were there for him in his time of need, so they apparently did not witness his death as the New Testament tells us “all his disciples forsook him and fled.”(Matthew 26:56 and Mark 14:50) Jesus was placed into a sepulcher hewn out of rock, and a stone rolled unto the door of the sepulcher.(Mark 15:46) Mary Magdalene, out of whom Jesus had cast seven devils (Mark 16:9), went to visit the tomb to anoint his dead body.(Mark 16:1) This was rather bizarre given that upon death, rigor mortis and decay starts immediately.
KJV

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1668
Dec 4, 2012
 
Part 6

The concept of Armageddon predates Christianity and Islam. Zarathustra, founder of Zoroastrianism, was a Persian, who it is believed was the first prophet to preach monotheism. Estimates of Zarathustra's birth range from 660 BCE to 6,000 BCE. Zarathustra preached that there was a supreme God (Ahura Mazda), and an evil spirit (Ahriman). There was also a serpent king (Zohak) under the influence of Ahriman. The apocalyptic process is remarkably similar in Zoroastrianism, a battle foreshadows the end of the world, then there is a waiting period followed by a second battle that vanquishes all evil, followed by a peaceful era. Zarathustra’s version of Armageddon is derived from an even older version in Indo-European myth.(Winn 209-211)


Current Religious and Political Implications

Many evangelical preachers today allude to our tumultuous times, and advocate that the current global situation is ripe for the second coming of Jesus. TV evangelists reach an estimated 60 million regular viewers (a conservative figure) in the United States, who (according to a Nielsen survey) believe that nuclear war is inevitable because the Bible predicts that planet earth will be destroyed by fire.(Halsell 11) These Christian evangelists are staunch supporters of Israel. They believe that an alliance with Israel is imperative so that they can do God’s work, i.e., help to create a chain of events that is necessary in that region (based on their interpretation of the scripture) for the second coming of Jesus. These Jews and Christians are strange bedfellows indeed, given that according to Christian doctrine, Jews (along with every other non-Christian in the world) are doomed to damnation unless they accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.

Fundamentalist Christians constitute a sizeable voting block in the United States, and no sane politician can ignore them. These fundamentalists exercise considerable sway over the U.S Congress and Executive Branch.(Halsell 163-167) They also influence U.S foreign policy in the Middle East, pressuring the U.S government to perform a delicate balancing act. Since evangelists and their followers believe that peace in the Middle East is against God’s will and counter productive to the emergence of an anti-Christ and the return of Jesus, politicians have to be careful not to appear too much in favor of peace while at the same time try to prevent a global conflagration from igniting in that volatile region of the world. There was a recent media report that one such evangelist – Jack Van Impe – claimed that the Office of Public Liaison for the White House, and National Security Advisor Condoleeza Rice, contacted him for advice regarding the Middle East.

KJV

United States

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1669
Dec 4, 2012
 
Part 7

Conclusion

Throughout history, millions of people have been annihilated due to religious polemic. God’s prophets all preached a consistent message, essentially for us to do good works given that we will all be held individually accountable on the Day of Judgment, based on the universal adage:“as you sow, so shall you reap.” People continuously engage in rabid arguments and violent conflict over the most esoteric of religious differences, sometimes even within the same religion, even though the commonalities among the monotheistic faiths far outweigh the theological disparities. Jews, Christians, and Muslims – or more precisely various sects within the three religions – believe that they have exclusive rights to heaven.

The majority of Jews, Christians, and Muslims are awaiting a savior: the Jews their Messiah, and Christians and Muslims the return of Jesus. It is incomprehensible that the gentle and peaceful Jesus, who reportedly said:“Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God”(Matthew 5:9), and who advised people who are smitten on one cheek to turn the other cheek (Matthew 5:39 and Luke 6:29), would descend from heaven to save a select group and eradicate millions of innocent people. The “divinity / second coming of Jesus” theory may arguably qualify as the biggest hoax ever perpetrated on mankind, and there is a great danger that the “Rapture” or “Armageddon” could manifest itself as a “self-fulfilling prophecy.” Although a minority, hardliners from the three Abrahamic faiths – Jews, Christians, and Muslims – are trying to create an atmosphere of spiraling violence that could possibly lead to massive destruction and conflagration on our planet. If they get their way, there will be no savior on the horizon with a sword protruding from his mouth (somewhat paradoxical), but hundreds of millions of very disappointed – and possibly dead – people."

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1670
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
"Archaeological discoveries continue to support the Bible's historical accuracy. We tend to forget that the Gospels and book of Acts are eyewitness accounts of the life and death of Jesus. Further nonbiblical evidence for Jesus' existence comes from the writings of Flavius Josephus, Cornelius Tacitus, Lucian of Samosata, and the Jewish Sanhedrin. The following seven proofs of the resurrection show that Christ did, indeed, rise from the dead."

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1671
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
The Resurrection Proof #1: The Empty Tomb of Jesus

The empty tomb may be the strongest proof Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Two major theories have been advanced by unbelievers: someone stole Jesus' body or the women and disciples went to the wrong tomb. The Jews and Romans had no motive to steal the body. Christ's apostles were too cowardly and would have had to overcome the Roman guards. The women who found the tomb empty had earlier watched Jesus being laid away; they knew where the correct tomb was. Even if they had gone to the wrong tomb, the Sanhedrin could have produced the body from the right tomb to stop the resurrection stories. Jesus' burial cloths were left neatly folded inside, hardly the act of hurrying grave robbers. Angels said Jesus had risen from the dead.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1672
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
The Resurrection Proof #2: The Holy Women Eyewitnesses

The holy women eyewitnesses are further proof that the Gospels are accurate historical records. If the accounts had been made up, no ancient author would have used women for witnesses to Christ's resurrection. Women were second class citizens in Bible times; their testimony was not even allowed in court. Yet the Bible says the risen Christ first appeared to Mary Magdalene and other holy women. Even the apostles did not believe Mary when she told them the tomb was empty. Jesus, who always had special respect for these women, honored them as the first eyewitnesses to his resurrection. The male Gospel writers had no choice but to report this embarrassing act of God's favor, because that was how it happened.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1673
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
The Resurrection Proof #3: Jesus' Apostles' New-Found Courage

After the crucifixion, Jesus' apostles hid behind locked doors, terrified they would be executed next. But something changed them from cowards to bold preachers. Anyone who understands human character knows people do not change that much without some major influence. That influence was seeing their Master, bodily risen from the dead. Christ appeared to them in the locked room, on the shore of the Sea of Galilee, and on the Mount of Olives. After seeing Jesus alive, Peter and the others left the locked room and preached the risen Christ, unafraid of what would happen to them. They quit hiding because they knew the truth. They finally understood that Jesus is God incarnate, who saves people from sin.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1674
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
The Resurrection Proof #4: Changed Lives of James and Others

Changed lives are yet another proof of the resurrection. James, the brother of Jesus, was openly skeptical that Jesus was the Messiah. Later James became a courageous leader of the Jerusalem church, even being stoned to death for his faith. Why? The Bible says the risen Christ appeared to him. What a shock to see your own brother, alive again, after you knew he was dead. James and the apostles were effective missionaries because people could tell these men had touched and seen the risen Christ. With such zealous eyewitnesses, the early church exploded in growth, spreading west from Jerusalem to Rome and beyond. For 2,000 years, encounters with the resurrected Jesus have changed lives.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1675
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
The Resurrection Proof #5: Large Crowd of Eyewitnesses

A large crowd of more than 500 eyewitnesses saw the risen Jesus Christ at the same time. The Apostle Paul records this event in 1 Corinthians 15:6. He states that most of these men and women were still alive when he wrote this letter, about 55 A.D. Undoubtedly they told others about this miracle. Today, psychologists say it would be impossible for a large crowd of people to have had the same hallucination at once. Smaller groups also saw the risen Christ, such as the apostles, and Cleopas and his companion. They all saw the same thing, and in the case of the apostles, they touched Jesus and watched him eat food. The hallucination theory is further debunked because after the ascension of Jesus into heaven, sightings of him stopped.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1676
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
The Resurrection Proof #6: Conversion of Paul

The conversion of Paul records the most drastically changed life in the Bible. As Saul of Tarsus, he was an aggressive persecutor of the early church. When the risen Christ appeared to Paul on the Damascus Road, Paul became Christianity's most determined missionary. He endured five floggings, three beatings, three shipwrecks, a stoning, poverty, and years of ridicule. Finally the Roman emperor Nero had Paul beheaded because the apostle refused to deny his faith in Jesus. What could make a person willingly accept—even welcome—such hardships? Christians believe the conversion of Paul came about because he encountered Jesus Christ who had risen from the dead.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1677
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
The Resurrection Proof #7: They Died for Jesus

Countless people have died for Jesus, absolutely certain that the resurrection of Christ is an historical fact. Tradition says ten of the original apostles died as martyrs for Christ, as did the Apostle Paul. Hundreds, perhaps thousands of early Christians died in the Roman arena and in prisons for their faith. Down through the centuries, thousands more have died for Jesus because they believed the resurrection is true. Even today, people suffer persecution because they have faith that Christ rose from the dead. An isolated group may give up their lives for a cult leader, but Christian martyrs have died in many lands, for nearly 2,000 years, believing Jesus conquered death to give them eternal life.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1678
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
Historical Evidence Outside of the Bible

Often people are uncertain about the existence of Christ, but few scholars would disagree that a man named Jesus lived roughly between 2 BC and about 33 AD. History documents that this man was not a myth but a real person and the historical evidence for this is excellent. For instance, the Roman historian Tacitus, writing in about 115 A.D., records the events surrounding Emperor Nero in July of A.D. 64. After the fire that destroyed much of Rome, Nero was blamed for being responsible:

Consequently, to get rid of the report, Nero fastened the guilt and inflicted the most exquisite tortures on a class hated for their abominations, called Christians by the populace. Christus [Christ], from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty during the reign of Tiberius at the hands of one of our procurators, Pontius Pilate, and a most mischievous superstition [Christ's resurrection] thus checked for the moment, again broke out not only in Judea, the first source of the evil, but even in Rome, where all things hideous and shameful from every part of the world find their center and become popular.(Bettenson, p. 2)

In about 112 A.D. the Roman governor of what is now northern Turkey wrote to Emperor Trajan regarding the Christians in his district:

"I was never present at any trial of Christians; therefore I do not know what are the customary penalties or investigations, and what limits are observed... whether those who recant should be pardoned... whether the name itself, even if innocent of crime, should be punished, or only the crimes attaching to that name.... Meanwhile, this is the course that I have adopted in the case of those brought before me as Christians. I ask them if they are Christians. If they admit it I repeat the question a second and a third time, threatening capital punishment; if they persist I sentence them to death. For I do not doubt that, whatever kind of crime it may be to which they have confessed, their pertinacity and inflexible obstinacy should certainly be punished... the very fact of my dealing with the question led to a wider spread of the charge, and a great variety of cases were brought before me. An anonymous pamphlet was issued, containing many names. All who denied that they were or had been Christians I considered should be discharged, because they called upon the gods at my dictation and did reverence...and especially because they cursed Christ, a thing which it is said, genuine Christians cannot be induced to do." (Bettenson, p. 3)

These passages indicate that Christianity was wide spread in the Roman empire within 80 years of Christ's death. Again, these are eyewitness accounts, not historians looking back years later.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1679
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>Jesus' resurrection is make-believe too. The Romans weren't forced to admit anything. There isn't a single record of Jesus by any Romans involved. There's nothing from Pilate. There's nothing from any guards. There's nothing from any local historians. Nothing.
"The popular historian Will Durant, himself not a Christian, wrote concerning Christ's historical validity, "The denial of that existence seems never to have occurred even to the bitterest gentile or Jewish opponents of nascent Christianity" (Durant, The Story of Civilization, vol. 3, p. 555). And again, "That a few simple men should in one generation have invented so powerful and appealing a personality, so lofty an ethic and so inspiring a vision of human brotherhood, would be a miracle far more incredible than any recorded in the Gospels" (Ibid., p. 557).

It is a substantial thing that an historian who spends his life considering historical facts should affirm the reality of Christ's existence as well as the rapid growth of the early movement.

The Jewish historian Josephus,writing for the Roman government in the 70's A.D. records some incidental things regarding Christ and the church. He confirms that John the Baptist died at the hand of Herod (this same incident is recorded in the gospels) as well as the death of, "The brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James... he delivered them to be stoned" (Josephus, Antiquities of the Jews, Book XVIII, ch. V, p. 20; Book XX, ch. IX, p. 140 ). Again we have sources external to the Bible that demonstrate the historical reliability of the text. Josephus, who was probably alive during the time of Christ, is attesting to the reality of his existence. What this also tells us is that within 40 years of Christ's death, the knowledge of who he was was widespread enough that Josephus could reference him and expect his readers to know exactly who he was talking about."

http://www.xenos.org/classes/papers/doubt.htm

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1680
Dec 4, 2012
 
The_Box wrote:
<quoted text>None of this has anything to do with a tomb, guards, or the disappearance of a body.

My statement stands.
By itself. All alone! LOL

Dolt.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

|
Report Abuse
|
Judge it!
|
#1681
Dec 4, 2012
 
[QUOTE who="dave. t "]<quoted text>Even the Bethlehem birth is bull, there was no census at that time but the Romans had to try and make Jesus fit the Jewish myths of the time, the more one learns about Roman judea the more the Christ myth crumbles into half truths & plain lies[/QUOTE]

The leaders of the uprising claimed that the census and taxation associated with it were tantamount to slavery.[citation needed] It is unclear as to whether this was based on the fact that for the first time in many years they were to pay taxes to a foreign power, or simply that they feared the tax burden would be too high; it has been argued that the combination of Roman and Jewish religious taxes was no higher a burden than in the neighboring provinces.[citation needed]

In any case, it was not unusual for the Roman census process to provoke resistance; a provincial census in the year 10 caused an uprising in Pannonia, and the revolt of Arminius may have been caused by Varus’ decision to start taxing the region in 9, even though the area had been under Roman rule since 12 BC.[13] In 36, the tribe of the Clitae, subjects of Archelaus of Cappadocia, objected to attempts by him to impose a Roman-type census on them for the purpose of paying tribute, and the ensuing revolt had to be put down by a force sent by the governor of Syria.[14]

Tell me when this thread is updated: (Registration is not required)

Add to my Tracker Send me an email

Showing posts 1,521 - 1,540 of4,534
|
Go to last page| Jump to page:
Type in your comments below
Name
(appears on your post)
Comments
Characters left: 4000
Type the numbers you see in the image on the right:

Please note by clicking on "Post Comment" you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

•••
•••
•••
•••