“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3367 Apr 22, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
When there was not time was there anything?
You didn't have a clue that this is what I was asking? Really?
I am saying you are asking non-sense questions. There is not a 'when' if there is not time. Whenever there was anything, there was time.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3368 Apr 22, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>
I am saying you are asking non-sense questions. There is not a 'when' if there is not time. Whenever there was anything, there was time.
He does seem incapable of learning...
KJV

United States

#3369 Apr 22, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Meaningless... same as asking what is south of the south pole.

Or asking is there anything south of the south pole.

It makes no sense.

Time cannot exist without a universe, as far as science can tell.

So asking if there was time before there was time/universe? Is meaningless.
bobby Einstein used the North Pole for his explanation changing it to South Pole is not very original.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3372 Apr 22, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
bobby Einstein used the North Pole for his explanation changing it to South Pole is not very original.
When I'm speaking to a little child or an idiot (you), there is no need to be original-- I have to dumb it down as stupid as possible without losing the meaning.

It is pretty difficult-- but clearly? I did not dumb it down enough-- you >>still<< cannot grasp this simple concept.

On second thought? A little child is easy to teach-- they have the ability to learn.

You?

Not so much...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3373 Apr 22, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're saying when there was no time there was nothing....Zipville.....elnodd o...goose Egg?
Incorrect.

You really are about as dumb as a rotten fence-post...

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3374 Apr 22, 2013
KJV wrote:
And time started "about" 13.7 billion years ago? Is that right?
Time in >>this<< universe, in it's >>present<< form...

.... as far as anyone knows.

Of course--the present universe could have existed in a different form, and therefore, there would have been time then, too.

Or there could be an infinity of universes-- in which case there is an infinity of time as well.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3375 Apr 22, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Pat attention bobby and you just might learn something.
Not from someone as willfully stupid as YOU, of course.

But sure-- Polymath has way superior education than I.

I always learn something new from reading his posts.

All I "learn" from YOU?

Is that you really, REALLY hate kittens.
KJV

United States

#3378 Apr 22, 2013
"The nature of time is such that the influence of the very beginning of the universe stretches all the way into your kitchen—you can make an omelet out of an egg, but you can’t make an egg out of an omelet. Time, unlike space, has an obvious directionality—the view in a mirror makes sense in a way that a movie in reverse never would.
The arrow of time in our universe is puzzling because the fundamental laws of physics themselves are symmetric and don’t seem to discriminate between the past and future. Unlike an egg breaking on the side of a frying pan, the journey of the planets around the sun would look basically the same if we filmed them and ran the movie backwards. Rather, it must be due to the initial conditions of the universe—a fact that makes the nature of time a question for cosmology. Remarkably, the answers we’re beginning to discover are telling us there may be other universes out there in which the arrow of time actually points in reverse.

For some reason, our early universe was an orderly place; as physicists like to say, it had low entropy. Entropy measures the number of ways that you can rearrange the components of a system such that the overall state wouldn’t change considerably. A set of neatly racked billiard balls has a low entropy, since moving one of the balls to another location on the table would change the configuration significantly. Randomly scattered balls are high entropy; we could move a ball or two and nobody would really notice.

Low-entropy configurations naturally evolve into high-entropy ones—as any billiards-break shows—for the simple reason that there are more ways to be high entropy than low entropy. The very beginning of time found our universe in an extremely unnatural and highly organized low-entropy state. It is the process by which it is inevitably relaxing into a more naturally disordered and messy configuration that imprints the unmistakable difference between past and future that we perceive.
Naturally, this leads one to wonder why the Big Bang began in such an unusual state. Attempts to answer this question are wrapped up with the question of time and have led me and my colleague Jennifer Chen to imagine another era before the Big Bang, in which the extremely far past looks essentially the same as the extremely far future. The distinction between past and future doesn’t matter on the scale of the entire cosmos, it’s just a feature we observe locally.

If time is to be symmetric—if the direction of its flow is not to matter throughout the universe—conditions at early times should be similar to those at late times. This idea has previously inspired cosmologists like Thomas Gold to suggest that the universe will someday recollapse and that the arrow of time would reverse. However, we now know that the universe is actually accelerating and seems unlikely to ever recollapse. Even if it did, there is no reason to think that entropy will spontaneously begin to decrease and re-rack the billiard balls. Stephen Hawking once suggested that it would—and he later called that the biggest blunder of his scientific career.

If we don’t want the laws of physics to distinguish arbitrarily between past and future, we can imagine that the universe is really high-entropy in both the far past and the far future. How can a high-entropy past be reconciled with what we know about our observable universe—that it began with unnaturally low entropy? Only by imagining that there is an ultra-large-scale universe beyond our reach, where entropy can always be increasing without limit, and that if we went far enough back into the past, time would actually be running backwards."

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/time_...
KJV

United States

#3379 Apr 22, 2013
"Such a scenario isn’t as crazy as it sounds. Our universe is expanding and becoming increasingly dilute, and the high-entropy future will be one in which space is essentially empty. But quantum mechanics assures us that empty space is not a quiet, boring place; it’s alive and bubbling with quantum fluctuations—ephemeral, virtual particles flitting in and out of existence. According to a theory known as the “inflationary universe scenario,” all we need is for a tiny patch of space to be filled with a very high density of dark energy—energy that is inherent in the fabric of space itself. That dark energy will fuel a spontaneous, super-accelerated expansion, stretching the infinitesimal patch to universal proportions.

Empty space, in which omnipresent quantum fields are jiggling back and forth, is a natural, high-entropy state for the universe. Eventually (and we’re talking about a really, really big eventually) the fluctuations will conspire in just the right way to fill a tiny patch of space with dark energy, setting off the ultra-fast expansion. To any forms of life arising afterward, such as us, the inflation would look like a giant explosion from which the universe originated, and the quiescent background—the other universes—would be completely unobservable. Such an occurrence would look exactly like the Big Bang and the universe we experience.
The most appealing aspect of this idea, Chen and I have argued, is that over the vast scale of the entire universe, time is actually symmetric and the laws truly don’t care about which direction it is moving. In our patch of the cosmos, time just so happens to be moving forward because of its initial low entropy, but there are others where this is not the case. The far past and the far future are filled with these other baby universes, and they would each think that the other had its arrow of time backwards. Time’s arrow isn’t a basic aspect of the universe as a whole, just a hallmark of the little bit we see. Over a long enough period of time, a baby universe such as ours would have been birthed into existence naturally. Our observable universe and its hundred billion galaxies is just one of those things that happens every once in a while, and its arrow of time is just a quirk of chance due to its beginnings amid a sea of universes.

Such a scenario is obviously speculative, but it fits in well with modern ideas of a multiverse with different regions of possibly distinct physical conditions. Admittedly, it would be hard to gather experimental evidence for or against this idea. But science doesn’t only need evidence, it also needs to make sense, to tell a consistent story. We can’t turn eggs into omelets, even though the laws of physics seem to be perfectly reversible, and this brute fact demands an explanation. It’s intriguing to imagine that the search for an answer would lead us to the literal ends of the universe."

http://seedmagazine.com/content/article/time_...
KJV

United States

#3380 Apr 22, 2013
"It may be possible to glimpse before the supposed beginning of time into the universe prior to the Big Bang, researchers now say.

Unfortunately, any such picture will always be fuzzy at best due to a kind of "cosmic forgetfulness."

The Big Bang is often thought as the start of everything, including time, making any questions about what happened during it or beforehand nonsensical. Recently scientists have instead suggested the Big Bang might have just been the explosive beginning of the current era of the universe, hinting at a mysterious past.

To see how far into history one might gaze, theoretical physicist Martin Bojowald at Pennsylvania State University ran calculations based on loop quantum gravity, one of a number of competing theories seeking to explain how the underlying structure of the universe works.

Past research suggested the Big Bang was preceded by infinite energies and space-time warping where existing scientific theories break down, making it impossible to peer beforehand. The new findings suggest that although the levels of energy and space-time warping before the Big Bang were both incredibly high, they were finite.

Scientists could spot clues in the present day of what the cosmos looked like previously. If evidence of the past persisted after the Big Bang, its influence could be spotted in astronomical observations and computational models, Bojowald explained.

However, Bojowald also figures some knowledge of the past was irrevocably lost. For instance, the sheer size of the present universe would suppress precise knowledge of how the universe changed in size before the Big Bang, he said.

"It came as a big surprise that some properties of the universe before the Big Bang may have only such a weak influence on current observations that they are practically undetermined," Bojowald said of findings detailed online July 1 in the journal Nature Physics.

One implication of this "cosmic forgetfulness," as Bojowald calls it, is that history does not repeat itself—the fundamental properties of the current era of the universe are different from the last, Bojowald explained. "It's as if the universe forgot some of its properties and acquired new properties independent of what it had before," he told SPACE.com .

"The eternal recurrence of absolutely identical universes would seem to be prevented by the apparent existence of an intrinsic cosmic forgetfulness," he added.

These findings differ from a cyclic model of the cosmos from cosmologist Paul Steinhardt at Princeton and theoretical physicist Neil Turok at Cambridge, which envisions an infinite series of Big Bangs preceding our universe caused by additional membranes or "branes" of reality perpetually colliding and bouncing off each other. Steinhardt said he felt Bojowald's calculations were concrete, but needed further elaboration to include the interplay of different kinds of matter and radiation.

Cosmologist Carlo Rovelli at the Center of Theoretical Physics in Marseilles, France, found it "remarkable" that the new work could delve past the Big Bang. He added the work had to lead to predictions that could be compared to cosmological observations "in order to become credible."

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#3381 Apr 22, 2013
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
No if you read the genesis account the type of wood used was strong. It was put together with tar, tar is oil so water would not be able to get it in. back in noahs tar came up from the ground.
It was not a boat. It was giant rectangle shapped vessel.The ark 437 feet long,73 feet wide and 44 feet tall. The ark took 40 to 50 years to build. The bible tells us the God informed Noah of his judgemeants way before it happen. If noah was 600 when the deluge began than he was 480 when Jehovah informed him. That means it took 120 years.
Genesis 6:3 "After that Jehovah said:My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.
genesis 7: 4-6 "For in just seven days more I am making it rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe every existing thing that I have made off the surface of the ground.5And Noah proceeded to do according to all that Jehovah had commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge of waters occurred on the earth"
The animals before the flood did not eat meat.
Genesis 1:30 "And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food. And it came to be so."
genesis 6:14 -16 "Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree. You will make compartments in the ark, and you must cover it inside and outside with tar.15 And this is how you will make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its width, and thirty cubits its height.16 You will make a &#8203;tso&#8242;har &#8203; [roof; or, window] for the ark, and you will complete it to the extent of a cubit upward, and the entrance of the ark you will put in its side; you will make it with a lower [story], a second [story] and a third [story]".
the bible uses the term resinous tree, which means the wood chosen had to be some kind of pine or cypress,They are extremely resistant to decay.The ark was held together from tar which is very sticky and thick. Water could not seep through this immense structure.
As far as the food for the animals, they had enough time to gather all the food for the animals.
the animals and humans were did began to eat meat until after the flood because the weather was different.
Genesis 7:22 "For all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, will never cease.
This is God, through him all things are possible, What he says he is going to do always happens. It took 120 years for the flood to come, The humans laughed at Noah since it never rained before the waters came up from the ground. Only 8 people survived. Scientist find all these bones of ancient humans and its a mystery to how they went extinct. It is the same with all the ancient animals they find, They do not know how they went extinct.
God is going to make this world into paradise like it was intended to be.
Isiaih 66:22 "They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full".
revelation 21 :3,4 "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say:Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.
I could see a meth monkey believing that kind of idiocy, but nobody else.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#3382 Apr 23, 2013
Shut the f*ck up you stupid spamming creationist piece of sh*t troll.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#3383 Apr 23, 2013
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
No if you read the genesis account the type of wood used was strong. It was put together with tar, tar is oil so water would not be able to get it in. back in noahs tar came up from the ground.
It was not a boat. It was giant rectangle shapped vessel.The ark 437 feet long,73 feet wide and 44 feet tall. The ark took 40 to 50 years to build. The bible tells us the God informed Noah of his judgemeants way before it happen. If noah was 600 when the deluge began than he was 480 when Jehovah informed him. That means it took 120 years.
Genesis 6:3 "After that Jehovah said:My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.
genesis 7: 4-6 "For in just seven days more I am making it rain upon the earth forty days and forty nights; and I will wipe every existing thing that I have made off the surface of the ground.5And Noah proceeded to do according to all that Jehovah had commanded him.
6 And Noah was six hundred years old when the deluge of waters occurred on the earth"
The animals before the flood did not eat meat.
Genesis 1:30 "And to every wild beast of the earth and to every flying creature of the heavens and to everything moving upon the earth in which there is life as a soul I have given all green vegetation for food. And it came to be so."
genesis 6:14 -16 "Make for yourself an ark out of wood of a resinous tree. You will make compartments in the ark, and you must cover it inside and outside with tar.15 And this is how you will make it: three hundred cubits the length of the ark, fifty cubits its width, and thirty cubits its height.16 You will make a &#8203;tso&#8242;har &#8203; [roof; or, window] for the ark, and you will complete it to the extent of a cubit upward, and the entrance of the ark you will put in its side; you will make it with a lower [story], a second [story] and a third [story]".
the bible uses the term resinous tree, which means the wood chosen had to be some kind of pine or cypress,They are extremely resistant to decay.The ark was held together from tar which is very sticky and thick. Water could not seep through this immense structure.
As far as the food for the animals, they had enough time to gather all the food for the animals.
the animals and humans were did began to eat meat until after the flood because the weather was different.
Genesis 7:22 "For all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, will never cease.
This is God, through him all things are possible, What he says he is going to do always happens. It took 120 years for the flood to come, The humans laughed at Noah since it never rained before the waters came up from the ground. Only 8 people survived. Scientist find all these bones of ancient humans and its a mystery to how they went extinct. It is the same with all the ancient animals they find, They do not know how they went extinct.
God is going to make this world into paradise like it was intended to be.
Isiaih 66:22 "They will not build and someone else have occupancy; they will not plant and someone else do the eating. For like the days of a tree will the days of my people be; and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full".
revelation 21 :3,4 "With that I heard a loud voice from the throne say:Look! The tent of God is with mankind, and he will reside with them, and they will be his peoples. And God himself will be with them.4 And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away.
In other news, someone made some religious sh*t up and ignorant downtrodden people were stupid enough to believe it and now they're zombies that sell their disease to the rest of humanity and kill people over it.

“Formerly "Richard"”

Since: Mar 12

In the beginning e=mc^2

#3384 Apr 23, 2013
spidersandsnakes wrote:
<quoted text>
No if you read the genesis account the type of wood used was strong. It was put together with tar, tar is oil so water would not be able to get it in. back in noahs tar came up from the ground.
It was not a boat. It was giant rectangle shapped vessel.The ark 437 feet long,73 feet wide and 44 feet tall. The ark took 40 to 50 years to build. The bible tells us the God informed Noah of his judgemeants way before it happen. If noah was 600 when the deluge began than he was 480 when Jehovah informed him. That means it took 120 years.
Genesis 6:3 "After that Jehovah said:My spirit shall not act toward man indefinitely in that he is also flesh. Accordingly his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.
......
1. There is NO geological evidence of a global flood.

2. If there was a global flood where did the 27,000 feet of water come from?

3. If there was a global flood where did the 27,000 feet of water go to?

4. The rain falling on the decks would have landed at the rate of about 150 tons per second. At that rate there would have around 4000 tons of standing water on the decks. Why didn't sink?

5. How did Noah collect kangaroos, penguins ect.?

6. How did he put them back?

7. How did Noah repopulate the world with seven people without committing incest?

8. How did their genetically defective offspring travel to unknown countries like America and Australia?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3385 Apr 23, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
So you're saying when there was no time there was nothing....Zipville.....elnodd o...goose Egg?
And time started "about" 13.7 billion years ago? Is that right?
That is *one* of the possibilities, yes.

Another, as your multiple posts explained, is a Big Bounce according to Loop Quantum Gravity.

Yet another, according to String Theory, is a multiverse with multiple universes.

Which of these possibilities is reality we do not known yet since we don't have the relevant data. Unlike religion, science doesn't get to simply make things up and say they are correct. Instead, we require data and actual evidence to support our conjectures. When several different models fit the available data, we keep all of them on the table until new data shows which is correct or, at least, which is wrong.
KJV

United States

#3386 Apr 23, 2013
Richardfs wrote:
<quoted text>1. There is NO geological evidence of a global flood.

2. If there was a global flood where did the 27,000 feet of water come from?

3. If there was a global flood where did the 27,000 feet of water go to?

4. The rain falling on the decks would have landed at the rate of about 150 tons per second. At that rate there would have around 4000 tons of standing water on the decks. Why didn't sink?

5. How did Noah collect kangaroos, penguins ect.?

6. How did he put them back?

7. How did Noah repopulate the world with seven people without committing incest?

8. How did their genetically defective offspring travel to unknown countries like America and Australia?
1) Wrong

2) "27,000 feet of water. " LOL. Idiot

3) the oceans

4) 99% of the water came from the fountains of the deep.

5) God helped.

6) they walked

7) he followed Gods command and broke no laws.

8) the family was expert boat builders.
KJV

United States

#3387 Apr 23, 2013
polymath257 wrote:
<quoted text>That is *one* of the possibilities, yes.

Another, as your multiple posts explained, is a Big Bounce according to Loop Quantum Gravity.

Yet another, according to String Theory, is a multiverse with multiple universes.

Which of these possibilities is reality we do not known yet since we don't have the relevant data. Unlike religion, science doesn't get to simply make things up and say they are correct. Instead, we require data and actual evidence to support our conjectures. When several different models fit the available data, we keep all of them on the table until new data shows which is correct or, at least, which is wrong.
Looking at the zipville analogy.

You agree in this model everything that exist came from nothing?

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3388 Apr 23, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Looking at the zipville analogy.
You agree in this model everything that exist came from nothing?
Which model? There were three different models in that post.

“Think&Care”

Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#3389 Apr 23, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Looking at the zipville analogy.
You agree in this model everything that exist came from nothing?
Actually, no. In *none* of those models does everything come from nothing. At no time was there nothing.

“Fortes Fortuna Juvat, ”

Since: Dec 09

Wichita. Ks.

#3390 Apr 23, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
1) Wrong
2) "27,000 feet of water. " LOL. Idiot
3) the oceans
4) 99% of the water came from the fountains of the deep.
5) God helped.
6) they walked
7) he followed Gods command and broke no laws.
8) the family was expert boat builders.
What the hell kind of answer is that?
It was magic god did it.

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