KJV

United States

#3179 Apr 16, 2013
More....

Panin's establishment of the practically infinite series of complex systems in the Hebrew and Greek text, all sequences, combinations, ratios, etc., following a uniform design from Genesis to Revelation, is undoubtedly God's answer to modern atheism and higher criticism, and his vindication of the verbal and complete inspiration of scripture. The discovery also settles many questions of text. It proves that the books of our present Bible, and they alone, have the required features of authenticity and divine inspiration. It also settles disputes of long standing, including about some portions of the Bible which scholars have said should be eliminated.

In this chapter, it is only possible to touch upon the surface of Dr. Panin's work. The Divine authority of scripture has always been fully sustained by proofs from fulfilled prophecy, the inexhaustible gaps of truth revealed, its matchless power over the lives of men, its indestructibility, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. However, some have wanted to waive these lines of evidence as unscientific. Dr. Panin has submitted conclusive, scientific proof that the Bible could not have been produced by the unaided human mind. This proof is found in the amazing numeric phenomena in the very structure of the Hebrew and Greek manuscripts. Dr. Panin demonstrated either that every other writer of scripture was an unparalleled literary and mathematical genius or that he wrote as he was moved by the Holy Ghost. Professor John C. Banks, a worthy successor of Dr. Panin, has offered similar numeric evidence.

Panin laid his discoveries before the readers of a New York newspaper, copies of which were sent to leading skeptical educators and scientists, with a challenge to disapprove, if possible, the phenomena to which he had called attention. Since that time, many other learned skeptics have been confronted with the same evidence and not one has been able to discredit it. Some challenged Dr Panin to find the same mathematical structure in Hebrew and Greek classics outside of the Bible. Panin, therefore, gave much time to examining other writings and failed to find such a phenomena. And no such features were found in any of the seven books added by the Roman church to their Old Testament.
KJV

United States

#3181 Apr 16, 2013
How Fossils are Dated

Contrary to popular belief, the dating of fossils is very subjective and arbitrary. Sometimes fossil dating is really a circular reasoning:

The ages of rocks are used to date fossils
The ages of fossils are used to date rocks.
Here is a quote from a peer reviewed science journal saying just that:

“The procession of life was never witnessed, it is inferred. The vertical sequence of fossils is thought to represent a process because the enclosing rocks are interpreted as a process. The rocks do date the fossils, but the fossils date the rocks more accurately. Stratigraphy cannot avoid this kind of reasoning, if it insists on using only temporal concepts, because circularity is inherent in the derivation of time scales.”(O’Rourke, J.E.,“Pragmatism Versus Materialism in Stratigraphy,” American Journal of Science, vol. 276, 1976, p. 53)(emphasis mine)

When a date is assigned to a fossil, it is also very important to pick the “correct” date. There are dates that are already accepted by evolutionists, and the date of a new fossil has to fit so as to not disrupt what has already been decided.

The classic situation of the problems with dating a fossil was the dating of fossil skull KNM-ER 1470. It took ten years for scientists to agree on the age of one skull.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3183 Apr 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
The next proof
Not so fast, there bub!

You ignored my posts, where I refuted 100% of your "proof".

So we can presume that ALL of your prior posts are false, then?

Since you did not even put up a counter-argument, we presume it's given, that you are wrong?

Okay.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3184 Apr 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
How Fossils are Dated
Contrary to popular belief, the dating of fossils is very subjective and arbitrary.
Nope.

Again, you lie.

Proof you are LYING?

Here: http://www.talkorigins.org/
KJV

United States

#3185 Apr 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Not so fast, there bub!

You ignored my posts, where I refuted 100% of your "proof".

So we can presume that ALL of your prior posts are false, then?

Since you did not even put up a counter-argument, we presume it's given, that you are wrong?

Okay.
Was the Flood Local or Worldwide?
In the late 60's and early 70's:

"Two American oceanographic vessels pulled from the bottom of the Gulf of Mexico several long, slender cores of sediment. Included in them were the shells of tiny one-celled planktonic organisms called foraminifera. While living on the surface, these organisms lock into their shells a chemical record of the temperature and salinity of the water. When they reproduce, the shells are discarded and drop to the bottom. A cross-section of that bottom ... carries a record of climates that may go back more than 100 million years. Every inch of core may represent as much as 1000 years of the earth's past." 58 Emphasis Added

"The cores were analyzed in two separate investigations, by Cesare Emiliani of the University of Miami, and James Kennett of the University of Rhode Island and Nicholas Shackleton of Cambridge University. Both analyses indicated a dramatic change in salinity, providing compelling evidence of a vast flood of fresh water into the Gulf of Mexico. Using radiocarbon, geochemist Jerry Stripp of the University of Miami dated the flood at about 11,600 years ago." 1 To Emiliani, all the questions and arguments are minor beside the single fact that a vast amount of fresh melt water poured into the Gulf of Mexico.'We know this,' he says,'because the oxygen isotope ratios of the foraminifera shells show a marked temporary decrease in the salinity of the waters of the Gulf of Mexico. It clearly shows that there was a major period of flooding from 12,000 to 10,000 years ago... There was no question that there was a flood and there is no question that it was a universal flood. 58 Emphasis Added
"Emiliani's findings are corroborated by geologists Kennett and Shackleton, who concluded that there was a 'massive inpouring of glacial melt water into the Gulf of Mexico via the Mississippi River system. At the time of maximum inpouring of this water, surface salinities were... reduced by about ten percent." 58
KJV

United States

#3186 Apr 16, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Not so fast, there bub!

You ignored my posts, where I refuted 100% of your "proof".

So we can presume that ALL of your prior posts are false, then?

Since you did not even put up a counter-argument, we presume it's given, that you are wrong?

Okay.
The Black Sea Speaks:

"Science... has found evidence for a massive deluge that may ... have inspired Noah's tale. About 7,500 years ago, a flood poured ten cubic miles of water a day -- 130 times more than flows over Niagara Falls - from the Mediterranean Sea into the Black Sea, abruptly turning the formerly freshwater lake into a brackish inland sea." 59 Emphasis Added

"In 1993, William Ryan and Walter Pitman of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory dug up cores of sediment from the bottom of the Black sea. The cores showed that the sea's outer margins had once been dry land, indicating it had been two-thirds its present size. Furthermore, over the entire sea bottom was a thin, uniform layer of sediment that could only have been deposited during a flood. The researchers also found that within that layer saltwater mollusks appear, all from the Mediterranean and all dating from around 7600 years ago." 59 Emphasis Added.

Miracle or Worldwide Flood?

"Such a hypothesis would require assumption of a highly unlikely pattern of faunal migrations, where swarms of species of Manticoceras are followed, everywhere at the same distance and the same time interval, by swarms of species of Cheiloceras, the two waves preserving their separate identities on a staggered mass migration around the world ... without evolutionary changes and without ever becoming mixed..." 60 Emphasis Added

"It would be easy to repeat this investigation for almost every critical zone fossil or fauna throughout the geological column for hundreds, perhaps thousands of... cases. The conclusions would be the same. In the words of Jeletsky (1956) we would have to 'invoke a miracle', if, for example, we were to assume anything but world-wide contemporaneous deposition for each of the 55 ammonite zones of the Jurassic. Not all of them occur everywhere, but wherever two or more are found in superposition they occur in the same order. 60 Arkell (1957, p. L112) 61 summarized the picture of ... Mesozoic ammonoids as follows: Emphasis Added

'Evolution is above all very uneven. Certain periods were outstandingly productive of new and verile forms which often seem to have sprung into existence from nowhere ... and to have become dominant almost simultaneously over a large part of the world ...

How such sudden multiple creations were brought about is a task for the future to determine.'" 60,61 Emphasis added
KJV

United States

#3187 Apr 16, 2013
Worldwide Chaos and Out of Order Fossils:

The following excerpts provide further evidence that something is amiss with the Geological Time Chart and the associated Theory of Evolution itself.

"I regard the failure to find a clear 'vector of progress' in life's history as the most puzzling fact of the fossil record." 62

And that:

"Heretofore, we have thrown up our hands in frustration at the lack of expected pattern in life's history -- or we have sought to impose a pattern that we hoped to find on a world that does not really display it... If we can develop a...theory of mass extinction, we may finally understand why life has thwarted our expectations, and...extract an unexpected ... pattern from apparent chaos." 62 Stephen Jay Gould Emphasis added.

"One of the ironies of the evolution-creation debate is that the creationists have accepted the mistaken notion that the fossil record shows a detailed and orderly progression..." 63 David M. Raup Emphasis added.

"... only 15-20% of the earth's land surface has even 3 geologic periods appearing in 'correct' consecutive order." 64 John Woodmorappe Emphasis added

"Any sequence in which an older fossil occurs above a younger one is stratigraphically disordered ... disorder may be from millimeters to many meters ...(and) is produced by the physical or biogenic mixing of ... sediments ... Since these processes occur to an extent in virtually all sedimentary systems, stratigraphic disorder at some scale is probably a common feature of the fossil record." 65 Emphasis Added

"The extent of disorder ...is not well documented; however, the widespread occurrence of anomalies ... suggest that disorder should be taken seriously..." ref. 61 p. 234. W. J. Arkell. Emphasis added

"Examination of Britain's record of the Ice Age levels discloses a 'complex interbedding of drift sheets derived from different sources.''When we add the additional complications imposed by thin drifts, scanty interglacial deposits, and the frequent presence in fossil-bearing beds of secondary [displaced] fossils derived from the reworking of older horizons, we get a truly difficult overall problem ... All in all, British glacial stratigraphic research has encountered exceptional difficulties,' writes R. F. Flint, professor of geology at Yale University. 66,67 Immanuel Velikovski Emphasis added

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3188 Apr 16, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Was the Flood Local or Worldwide?
No-- there never was any--not like the one in the fictional buybull.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#3189 Apr 17, 2013
KJV wrote:
Various Indian drawings on rock walls tell us the Indians actually saw living dinosaurs. They drew on rock walls what they saw with their eyes. The Anasazi Indians of the American southwest
made pictures on rocks showing dinosaurs and men. A thick coat of “desert varnish” on these images proves that these pictures were created many hundreds of years ago. Desert varnish (windblown pollen and dust) slowly accumulates on rocks in the desert; the varnish on the Anasazi pictures is so thick that they must have been drawn many hundreds of years ago. Therefore,
these art works are not frauds perpetrated by mischievous European newcomers (who had no motive for such a fraud), but were made by natives long ago, showing men and dinosaurs living together. In the ancient city of Angkor in Cambodia, we can see a stegosaurus carved in one of the temple walls. In Mexico, many hundreds ancient dinosaur figurines have been unearthed, some even with men riding them!(see below)

This is not just accidental similarity between the Indian artwork and what we believe the edmontosaurus looked like!

This remarkable pictograph can be seen etched into the canyon walls of the Grand Canyon. Other animals show the same clarity. The people living there not too long ago saw reptiles that we only see in books. They painted what they observed. Dinosaurs did not become extinct 65 million years before the "evolution" of man. They were obviously created at the same time!

Cave drawing to the right of a long neck dragon. Bottom picture is outlined in white to show it's shape better.

Ica Stone, found in the Ica valley in Peru. The people lived there about 3,000 years ago. How did they know what dinosaurs looked like?

More Indian artwork from Canada. The evolutionary time-table has been proved entirely wrong.

This carving was found on a Cambodian temple wall. It is an excellent depiction of a stegosaurus, many hundreds of years old. How could they have known about stegosaurs if they had never seen one?

Thousands of Indian clay figurines have been unearthed in Acambaro, Mexico.

This pottery is several thousand years old. Remember we aren't supposed to know what dinosaurs looked like until the late 1800's really the mid 1900's. This Pottery is dated back to between 800BC and 200 AD.

http://www.6000years.org/frame.php...
Does it ever strike you odd that every science that you rely on every day would have to be wrong for all that to be true?

The sciences are all interconnected in one way or another.

And I just cannot understand how anybody could think that they're (the sciences) right when it comes to technological advances, but all wrong when, and only when, they conflict with some biblical belief.

Can you explain that to me?

Is your god THAT devious?
KJV

United States

#3190 Apr 17, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>Does it ever strike you odd that every science that you rely on every day would have to be wrong for all that to be true?

The sciences are all interconnected in one way or another.

And I just cannot understand how anybody could think that they're (the sciences) right when it comes to technological advances, but all wrong when, and only when, they conflict with some biblical belief.

Can you explain that to me?

Is your god THAT devious?
"Does it ever strike you odd that every science that you rely on every day would have to be wrong for all that to be true?"

Because if these were true and they are then evolution, the BB and all would be dead. That's billions of dollars lost in research and billions more wasted in the past on these inaccurate scientific claims.

Sciences can't hide all the evidence.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#3191 Apr 17, 2013
KJV wrote:
Job, you think I am not concerned about your suffering. Well, let Me ask you these questions. Can you loose the bands of Orion? No, you cannot. But My Divine power will. Some day Orion will no longer exist. Job, can you bind the 250 stars of the Pleiades together in their symmetry of beauty and not have a single one drift off? Only I have this power and wisdom. Can you prevent the runaways — Arcturus and his sons — from colliding as they go dashing out of the Milky Way? No, only My Divine power and wisdom can.

Job, if I am caring for the details of the universe, do you doubt that I not only care for the details of your life, but I have the ability to solve your problems? Trust that there is a good reason I am permitting these tragedies. Remember, Job, I work from the perspective of your eternal welfare.

"Job, can you bind the 250 stars of the Pleiades together in their symmetry of beauty and not have a single one drift off? "

How did the writers of the bible (sheep herders) know that Pleiades consisted of 250 stars?
Sorry dude.

I found mention of the Pleiades, 7 of which are easily visible to the naked eye, but no mention of 250 stars.

You're not lying, are you?

C'mon. Tell the truth.
KJV

United States

#3192 Apr 17, 2013
Aerobatty wrote:
<quoted text>Sorry dude.

I found mention of the Pleiades, 7 of which are easily visible to the naked eye, but no mention of 250 stars.

You're not lying, are you?

C'mon. Tell the truth.
I already apologized for that miss quote.
I took it from a study Bible rather then the real Bible. I'm bad on this one.

Since: Mar 11

Lexington, KY

#3193 Apr 17, 2013
You're bad on each and everyone of your pathetic examples.

Hey jackass do you prefer apples or carrots to stop your braying?
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>I already apologized for that miss quote.
I took it from a study Bible rather then the real Bible. I'm bad on this one.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3194 Apr 17, 2013
KJV wrote:
Sciences can't hide all the evidence.
Sciences is not even a little bit interested in hiding actual EVIDENCE.

You know...

.... facts and shyt.

When it comes to gods? Science is neutral-- science is only concerned with reality, you see-- not fantasy-delusions of bronze-age mystics.

Since your delusions are entirely without evidence?

Well.... there you go-- science is not concerned.

At all...
KJV

United States

#3195 Apr 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Not so fast, there bub!
Oh sorry bobby I forgot I was dealing with an imbecile.
KJV

United States

#3196 Apr 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Sciences is not even a little bit interested in hiding actual EVIDENCE.

You know...

.... facts and shyt.

When it comes to gods? Science is neutral-- science is only concerned with reality, you see-- not fantasy-delusions of bronze-age mystics.

Since your delusions are entirely without evidence?

Well.... there you go-- science is not concerned.

At all...
Yes I know.

American Association for the Advancement of Science found that "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3197 Apr 17, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh sorry bobby I forgot I was dealing with an imbecile.
Yes-- you are an imbecile, we know already.

You even admitted to being a simpleton.

Which we also knew already.

But your post, above? Does not address my many points.

You keep IGNORING those.

Why?

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3198 Apr 17, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes I know.
American Association for the Advancement of Science found that "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power.
Actually? The number is down around 10% or less.

You have to check the work, first-- if the question is badly worded? Then the "results" are equally flawed.

My point is this: less than 10% of scientists believe in YOUR god.

Not just any god, here-- but YOUR, SPECIFIC MAGIC-DOING deity.

I know for a FACT that you are an ATHEIST with respect to Zeus, Hera, Thor, and the nebulous god that Deists worship.

Since you do not accept THESE gods? Your quote above actually works AGAINST you.
KJV

United States

#3199 Apr 17, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>Actually? The number is down around 10% or less.

You have to check the work, first-- if the question is badly worded? Then the "results" are equally flawed.

My point is this: less than 10% of scientists believe in YOUR god.

Not just any god, here-- but YOUR, SPECIFIC MAGIC-DOING deity.

I know for a FACT that you are an ATHEIST with respect to Zeus, Hera, Thor, and the nebulous god that Deists worship.

Since you do not accept THESE gods? Your quote above actually works AGAINST you.
"Actually? The number is down around 10% or less. "

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#sectio...

2012:
Another study assessing religiosity among scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science found that "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3200 Apr 17, 2013
KJV wrote:
<quoted text>
"Actually? The number is down around 10% or less. "
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism#sectio...
2012:
Another study assessing religiosity among scientists who are members of the American Association for the Advancement of Science found that "just over half of scientists (51%) believe in some form of deity or higher power.
You have a reading comprehension, sport?

I addressed your problem already-- repeating it doesn't help your case in the least.

Less than 10% believe in YOUR GOD.

Since you are an ATHEIST with respect to DEIST gods?

Your post does not help your case...

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