Asking the right questions of religious believers

Feb 26, 2011 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Mano Singham's Web Journal

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381 - 400 of 444 Comments Last updated Oct 23, 2012
Andre

South Africa

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#386
Oct 2, 2012
 
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
SO I must ask... Why do you have faith?
My apologies for the delay in responding. I am presently tied up quite a bit.
Your question is a valid question and one which every Christian should ask him/herself.

One can quote the Bible to substantiate a position, but this may not be altogether honest as it does not address your very direct question. The question is very personal and one cannot answer it by appealing to “authority” or doctrine. It will of course also be necessary to assess whether what one claims as truth agrees with the Bible, as if it does not, your faith is not a true Christian faith – with one of two alternatives – either the Christian faith is a hoax or you “fool” yourself into believing that you have true faith.
In my experience, I grew up in a typical Christian home, with the Bible being taught from a young age, and going through the normal processes – but without ever becoming a “true” Christian. It was plain religion – going to church on Sundays etc. But I remember that I always thought that “this cannot be all there is to Christianity”, as it was nothing special, going through the motions.
It was only at a very late stage in my life that I came to a point that I truly repented, asking God forgiveness for every sin that I could remember and this having an immediate and dramatic impact. It was not “premeditated” but being suddenly overcome by a need to repent and placing my trust in Christ.
So how did this come about (having faith in God and his Word?) Firstly knowledge of what is sin, accepting that I sin and need forgiveness, accepting the truth of God’s Word, and turn away from sin.
How did I receive “faith”? All I can say is that I did not have anything to do with it. It was pure grace. Thus, I am totally convinced that the Armenian position (free will) is not correct, as I was “drawn” to Christ, and not a decision I made in “advance”.
So a direct answer to your question “Why do you have faith” is that I received it without merit. Only by grace.
To suggest that “my way” is the only way, will be stupid as God in his wisdom may deal differently with every person, and make use of different circumstances to bring each of his chosen ones to Him.

If you want pure doctrine on these and other issues, it will be best in my opinion to look at the puritans, and the messages during the Welsh and other Rivavals. It is nowadays a terrible situation where it will be most difficult to establish the truth unless revealed by the Holy Spirit.

I trust this answers your question.
Jehovah is God

Tulsa, OK

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#387
Oct 2, 2012
 

Judged:

2

1

1

Do you not know the difference between a man of God and a man of faith...
Noah was a man of God, Moses was a man of God,
Daniel was a man of God and Jesus was a man of God.
Abraham was a man of faith, early Christians were men of faith, they had to prove they were men of God by their obedience to the works God required of them. John 3:36

Being a true servant of the one true God in heaven today is evident by the use of God's personal name as the God you serve today. You are either Jehovah's witness or you are a named Christian believing your doctrinal Trinity god is Jesus.

The Bible is the truth or authority for all Jehovah's witness beliefs, and the man made doctrines of Christendom are what Church Christians believe.

You must separate yourself from Christendom if you want to survive the end of all ungodly men and this ungodly system, you must be a lover of Jehovah God to survive the coming day of wrath on Satans world. 1John 2:15
Proverbs 2:21,22

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

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#389
Oct 2, 2012
 
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>My apologies for the delay in responding. I am presently tied up quite a bit.
Your question is a valid question and one which every Christian should ask him/herself.
One can quote the Bible to substantiate a position, but this may not be altogether honest as it does not address your very direct question. The question is very personal and one cannot answer it by appealing to “authority” or doctrine. It will of course also be necessary to assess whether what one claims as truth agrees with the Bible, as if it does not, your faith is not a true Christian faith – with one of two alternatives – either the Christian faith is a hoax or you “fool” yourself into believing that you have true faith.
In my experience, I grew up in a typical Christian home, with the Bible being taught from a young age, and going through the normal processes – but without ever becoming a “true” Christian. It was plain religion – going to church on Sundays etc. But I remember that I always thought that “this cannot be all there is to Christianity”, as it was nothing special, going through the motions.
It was only at a very late stage in my life that I came to a point that I truly repented, asking God forgiveness for every sin that I could remember and this having an immediate and dramatic impact. It was not “premeditated” but being suddenly overcome by a need to repent and placing my trust in Christ.
So how did this come about (having faith in God and his Word?) Firstly knowledge of what is sin, accepting that I sin and need forgiveness, accepting the truth of God’s Word, and turn away from sin.
How did I receive “faith”? All I can say is that I did not have anything to do with it. It was pure grace. Thus, I am totally convinced that the Armenian position (free will) is not correct, as I was “drawn” to Christ, and not a decision I made in “advance”.
So a direct answer to your question “Why do you have faith” is that I received it without merit. Only by grace.
To suggest that “my way” is the only way, will be stupid as God in his wisdom may deal differently with every person, and make use of different circumstances to bring each of his chosen ones to Him.
If you want pure doctrine on these and other issues, it will be best in my opinion to look at the puritans, and the messages during the Welsh and other Rivavals. It is nowadays a terrible situation where it will be most difficult to establish the truth unless revealed by the Holy Spirit.
I trust this answers your question.
It sort of answers it.
From an outside perspective...... It appears that you were indoctrinated at a very young age, so you knew all the dogma, and you knew all the "rules". It also appears that as you grew older and began to realize your mortality, you decided to "repent" and take your religious upbringing seriously. I believe you when you said it was not premeditated, but I have to suggest that it WAS premeditated, but not on a conscious level. Of course, this is all speculation, but I feel it is a reasonable hypothosis.
Breifly, here is why.... Other people from other different faiths have had the same experience. If there was one god, and he had a specific desire that men believe a certain way, everyoone who opens him or herself up to that revelation should recieve the same information. They do not. They recieve an experience just like yours, but almost always to the god(s) of their upbringing. So from the standpoint of a logical observer, that experience lacks consistancy, and one would think that a loving god, who is willing to reveal himself, would do so in an extreamly uniform way.

Just sayin'

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

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#390
Oct 2, 2012
 
Jehovah is God wrote:
Do you not know the difference between a man of God and a man of faith...
Noah was a man of God, Moses was a man of God,
Daniel was a man of God and Jesus was a man of God.
Abraham was a man of faith, early Christians were men of faith, they had to prove they were men of God by their obedience to the works God required of them. John 3:36
Being a true servant of the one true God in heaven today is evident by the use of God's personal name as the God you serve today. You are either Jehovah's witness or you are a named Christian believing your doctrinal Trinity god is Jesus.
The Bible is the truth or authority for all Jehovah's witness beliefs, and the man made doctrines of Christendom are what Church Christians believe.
You must separate yourself from Christendom if you want to survive the end of all ungodly men and this ungodly system, you must be a lover of Jehovah God to survive the coming day of wrath on Satans world. 1John 2:15
Proverbs 2:21,22
I guess that works when your cult rewrites the bible to suit their dogma. Maybe you would like to explain how your early church leaders missed it so many times when they predicted the end of the world!
Even when I was a believer, JW's were a joke. Some things never change.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#391
Oct 4, 2012
 
The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
It sort of answers it.
From an outside perspective...... It appears that you were indoctrinated at a very young age, so you knew all the dogma, and you knew all the "rules". It also appears that as you grew older and began to realize your mortality, you decided to "repent" and take your religious upbringing seriously. I believe you when you said it was not premeditated, but I have to suggest that it WAS premeditated, but not on a conscious level. Of course, this is all speculation, but I feel it is a reasonable hypothosis.
Breifly, here is why.... Other people from other different faiths have had the same experience. If there was one god, and he had a specific desire that men believe a certain way, everyoone who opens him or herself up to that revelation should recieve the same information. They do not. They recieve an experience just like yours, but almost always to the god(s) of their upbringing. So from the standpoint of a logical observer, that experience lacks consistancy, and one would think that a loving god, who is willing to reveal himself, would do so in an extreamly uniform way.
Just sayin'
Your comments makes much sense, but I just need to clarify. Indoctrination only works until you are faced with truth. Then you decide whether you choose to believe a lie (as you discovered)or reject it outright. Many people will continue to live according to certain principles because it is "acceptable" or expected.
Everyone the same? Why? What is the rationale? Only being confronted with the Word is the way that God has decided to reveal himself in New testament times. I am very skeptical (as you rightly are) of emotional responses - and even signs and wonders. Emotional responses is no sure indication of being born again. I am somewhat critical of signs and wonders as well- not because they are impossible, but because the Bible clearly states of end times.
2Th 2:8 And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence.(Isa. 11:4 )
2Th 2:9 His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miraculous signs and lying wonders,

So be very careful of these, and measure the message against the Word. There are many, many "false prophets". But also beware of legalism. There as so many false teachings nowadays that, unless a person makes a proper study of the Word, will not be able to discern.

I am not going to judge others having "experiences"- my role is to present what I know to be the truth. Why do that if there are "more ways than one"? Because if there are more ways than one, all religions are false as each claim to be the only truth.

Eventually no argument, experience, proof of agreement with "science" or living a decent life will bring one any closer to God - but by the Word, rightly divined.

As I,as an unworthy individual, found grace in the sight of God, I know that He will keep his promise to any person that heeds Jer 29:13 And you shall seek and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Some will, most will not.

I thank each one making "allegations" about Christianity as it allows me to critically examine these allegations and clarify issues.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#392
Oct 4, 2012
 
Jehovah is God wrote:
Do you not know the difference between a man of God and a man of faith...
Noah was a man of God, Moses was a man of God,
Daniel was a man of God and Jesus was a man of God.
Abraham was a man of faith, early Christians were men of faith, they had to prove they were men of God by their obedience to the works God required of them. John 3:36
Being a true servant of the one true God in heaven today is evident by the use of God's personal name as the God you serve today. You are either Jehovah's witness or you are a named Christian believing your doctrinal Trinity god is Jesus.
The Bible is the truth or authority for all Jehovah's witness beliefs, and the man made doctrines of Christendom are what Church Christians believe.
You must separate yourself from Christendom if you want to survive the end of all ungodly men and this ungodly system, you must be a lover of Jehovah God to survive the coming day of wrath on Satans world. 1John 2:15
Proverbs 2:21,22
Kindly explain the following to me:
Isa 9:6 For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Also the following: Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, the One who is, and who was, and who is coming, the Almighty.
It will be good to examine it in the light of the surrounding texts.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#393
Oct 4, 2012
 
With reference to "I thank each one making "allegations" about Christianity as it allows me to critically examine these allegations and clarify issues. ", it might be construes as saying "Thanks for the opportunity to put my case". I actually meant that I appreciate the opportunity to examine things critically myself - for my own benefit. So it is rather selfish, but thanks all the same.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#394
Oct 4, 2012
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course not. Totally expected.
Then if you knew it cannot be expected to reply to each and every allegation, why make such a rather ridiculous comment? It only suggests that you did it without reference to the merit of "arguments" raised.
So, since you couldn't actually address anything I offered, you go off on some tangent and argue against a strawman position.
I took the time to read through it and there is no clear proof presented- just suggestions and hence my relevant answer indicating that suggestions have in the past been proven wrong. This again indicates that you did not take the time to assess the contents objectively - as it does not support your case.
Let's make this as easy as possible. Donkey's can't talk. There was no world-wide flood. The value of Pi is 3.14. There is no high mountain from which you can see all the lands of the Earth. A star cannot guide anyone to any particular spot on this or any other planet.
Donkey: Are there any witnesses that has evidence to the contrary? Thus you cannot state it as fact – but only come the conclusion that from your experience (and mine ) donkeys do not talk. That is a fact. There are many instances in the Bible that supernatural things happen. Water out of rocks, fire out of rocks, bush that does not burn up etc etc. These are all instances which are supernatural. As you may not believe in the supernatural, it will be a hard one to swallow.
Mountain: The following extract will hopefully help you with interpreting the part you refer to: The term “world” is often used in this limited sense to denote a part or a large part of the world, particularly the land of Canaan. See Rom_4:13, where it means the land of Judah; also Luk_2:1.
Flood: You have proof it did not happen? There is information, that if manipulated to fit a preconceived idea, that will indicate it could not have happened. There is however also information suggesting an opposite view. Thus to claim it never happened as fact, is not true.
No, you are quite obviously not a historian. And, yes, the jury may still be out on some issues, but not on all of them.
On which ones have the jury unanimously decided?
You should also consider that just because a city named Jericho might have existed around the right time, this fact does NOT prove the account in the Bible about it is accurate in any way. I have actually been to King's Cross Station in London, and this train station is mentioned in Harry Potter. That doesn't prove that Harry Potter stories are real.
Yes, you are right. Mere mention of a historical place or event does not prove the reality of Harry Potter or what happened at Jericho. Earlier and also more recent digs at the site indicates that the Biblical account is most probably true (although the Italian excavation claimed otherwise – albeit that photographic proof of their site supports the Biblical account.)
Shlomo Kahn

Dayton, OH

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#395
Oct 4, 2012
 
Pray with me...

Our sacred Victim, Diversity be true, hallowed be thy Mideast crusades.

Thy democracy come, equality be done, on the Potomac as it is in Tel Aviv.

Give us this day our daily social justice, and forgive us our intolerance, as we exploit those that toil and pay taxes, and lead us not into decency, but deliver us from oppressor class hatred.

For thine is the new world order, the hegemony, the multicultural power, the freedoms, and the holiest of pyramid schemes, forever and ever.

A-women

Celebrate Diversity...

http://www.registrar.iastate.edu/courses/dive...
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#396
Oct 4, 2012
 
Hedonist wrote:
Your book say to dash these "little unprotected babies" on the rocks, so you have no room to talk.
I really wish that you will spend time in evaluating claims before putting it to paper as your obvious ignorance of context of the passage indicates. It does not say what you claim at all – it is found in the Psalms, and is a call to God to interfere in the lives of their opponents, to give just punishment for their atrocities against the Israelites. Thus it is neither a command, or even personal revenge but a cry to God to exercise justice according to the Old Testament principle of “an eye for an eye”– which by the way is still a modern principle – the punishment must fit the crime
I could not help but notice that you did not address any one of the list of moral standards I pulled out of your Bible.
Again, your moral standard includes killing witches, stoning children who sass, stoning anyone who gathers firewood on the Sabbath, etc. etc. etc. You can find a Biblical justification for every vile act you can imagine. Don't tell me you're just a cafeteria Christian who picks and chooses which parts of the Bible to follow and which to ignore?
No, claims made above is not denied in terms of the punishment for contravening God’s laws during the Old Covenant. However this is not relevant in the New Covenant. Just as punishment was sometimes immediate during Old Testament times,“postponing” judgment/punishment does not suggest that judgement will not take place – to the contrary, it is a well known fact that the Bible clearly teaches a day of reckoning.
Your definition of “vile” and on what basis?
So, let's make this easy. Name 1 moral tenet that you can clearly show would not be available to humanity without you religion. Just 1.
Why? I did not make any claim to that effect.
You will continue to ignore the points you can't address and make apologetics for everything else.
Please enlighten me on points not addressed. I notice that you decided not to accept the challenge (or as you suggested “ignore the points”: Your claim: The Abrahamic religions are a blight on humanity that teaches subservience to the church at all cost.
My challenge:I wish to challenge you on that issue in respect of the Christian faith. Not church doctrine,....
) and thus conclude that you cannot substantiate your claims.
And the truth is, I don't care. Nail a chicken leg on your bedpost and dance around it naked for all I care. Just don't insist that my taxes be used to sponsor your religion -- stop trying to make laws based on nothing more than your religious beliefs .... stop trying to teach your religion as science ....
You are sadly mistaken and your arguments suggest that your responses are not based on objective assessment of fact, but purely emotional.
Laws according to religious beliefs? On what do you suggest we base laws and why? The majority is right? So if that is the case, homosexuality is wrong and should be a “crime”.
Never tried to teach Christianity as science – which it is not. Consistent with proper science, yes.
[QUOTE]
When I was born "god" was NOT in our pledge nor on our money. Stop pushing your religion into every aspect of my life and you won't hear from me again.
It is really irrelevant what is in your pledge or on your money. If they used a pledge to Humpty Dumpty and put Donald Duck on your coins will have no effect on anything whatsoever. It merely represents the values at the time/what is regarded as worthy of recognition.
I am not pushing my religion, but I am sure you would not like to limit free speech, be intolerant of other’s views? Or is that only relevant if it is Christian?
I am happy to discuss issues with you, but would prefer reasoned argument and not plain "copy and paste" - without you actually making the effort to critically examine the evidence presented.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#397
Oct 4, 2012
 
Hedonist wrote:
<quoted text>
Your book say to dash these "little unprotected babies" on the rocks, so you have no room to talk.
I really wish that you will spend time in evaluating claims before putting it to paper as your obvious ignorance of context of the passage indicates. It does not say what you claim at all – it is found in the Psalms, and is a call to God to interfere in the lives of their opponents, to give just punishment for their atrocities against the Israelites. Thus it is neither a command, or even personal revenge but a cry to God to exercise justice according to the Old Testament principle of “an eye for an eye”– which by the way is still a modern principle – the punishment must fit the crime
I could not help but notice that you did not address any one of the list of moral standards I pulled out of your Bible.
Again, your moral standard includes killing witches, stoning children who sass, stoning anyone who gathers firewood on the Sabbath, etc. etc. etc. You can find a Biblical justification for every vile act you can imagine. Don't tell me you're just a cafeteria Christian who picks and chooses which parts of the Bible to follow and which to ignore?
No, claims made above is not denied in terms of the punishment for contravening God’s laws during the Old Covenant. However this is not relevant in the New Covenant. Just as punishment was sometimes immediate during Old Testament times,“postponing” judgment/punishment does not suggest that judgement will not take place – to the contrary, it is a well known fact that the Bible clearly teaches a day of reckoning.
Your definition of “vile” and on what basis?
So, let's make this easy. Name 1 moral tenet that you can clearly show would not be available to humanity without you religion. Just 1.
Why? I did not make any claim to that effect.
You will continue to ignore the points you can't address and make apologetics for everything else.
Please enlighten me on points not addressed. I notice that you decided not to accept the challenge (or as you suggested “ignore the points”: Your claim: The Abrahamic religions are a blight on humanity that teaches subservience to the church at all cost.
My challenge:I wish to challenge you on that issue in respect of the Christian faith. Not church doctrine,....
) and thus conclude that you cannot substantiate your claims.
And the truth is, I don't care. Nail a chicken leg on your bedpost and dance around it naked for all I care. Just don't insist that my taxes be used to sponsor your religion -- stop trying to make laws based on nothing more than your religious beliefs .... stop trying to teach your religion as science ....
You are sadly mistaken and your arguments suggest that your responses are not based on objective assessment of fact, but purely emotional.
Laws according to religious beliefs? On what do you suggest we base laws and why? The majority is right? So if that is the case, homosexuality is wrong and should be a “crime”.
Never tried to teach Christianity as science – which it is not. Consistent with proper science, yes.
[QUOTE]
When I was born "god" was NOT in our pledge nor on our money. Stop pushing your religion into every aspect of my life and you won't hear from me again.
It is really irrelevant what is in your pledge or on your money. If they used a pledge to Humpty Dumpty and put Donald Duck on your coins will have no effect on anything whatsoever. It merely represents the values at the time/what is regarded as worthy of recognition.
I am not pushing my religion, but I am sure you would not like to limit free speech, be intolerant of other’s views? Or is that only relevant if it is Christian?
I am happy to discuss issues with you, but would prefer reasoned argument and not plain "copy and paste" - without you actually making the effort to critically examine the evidence presented
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#398
Oct 4, 2012
 
Sorry for double post. Seemed to go back to normal page without saving.
Jehovah is God

Tulsa, OK

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#399
Oct 4, 2012
 

Judged:

1

1

Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Kindly explain the following to me:
Isa 9:6 For a Child is born; to us a Son is given; and the government is on His shoulder; and His name is called Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Also the following: Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the Ending, says the Lord, the One who is, and who was, and who is coming, the Almighty.
It will be good to examine it in the light of the surrounding texts.
Until you understand the meaning of those titles of Jesus as the Messianic King, you will not understand that prophecy.

Any questions you have can be answered by Jehovah's witnesses in your area or you may have to travel to find them, that is up to you.
Amused

Peabody, MA

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#400
Oct 4, 2012
 
Carnarvon wrote:
<quoted text>And you suggest?
Reality.

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

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#401
Oct 4, 2012
 
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>Your comments makes much sense, but I just need to clarify. Indoctrination only works until you are faced with truth. Then you decide whether you choose to believe a lie (as you discovered)or reject it outright. Many people will continue to live according to certain principles because it is "acceptable" or expected.
Everyone the same? Why? What is the rationale? Only being confronted with the Word is the way that God has decided to reveal himself in New testament times. I am very skeptical (as you rightly are) of emotional responses - and even signs and wonders. Emotional responses is no sure indication of being born again. I am somewhat critical of signs and wonders as well- not because they are impossible, but because the Bible clearly states of end times.
2Th 2:8 And then "the Lawless One" will be revealed, "whom" "the Lord" "will consume" "by the spirit of His mouth," and will bring to nought by the brightness of His presence.(Isa. 11:4 )
2Th 2:9 His coming is according to the working of Satan in all power and miraculous signs and lying wonders,
So be very careful of these, and measure the message against the Word. There are many, many "false prophets". But also beware of legalism. There as so many false teachings nowadays that, unless a person makes a proper study of the Word, will not be able to discern.
I am not going to judge others having "experiences"- my role is to present what I know to be the truth. Why do that if there are "more ways than one"? Because if there are more ways than one, all religions are false as each claim to be the only truth.
Eventually no argument, experience, proof of agreement with "science" or living a decent life will bring one any closer to God - but by the Word, rightly divined.
As I,as an unworthy individual, found grace in the sight of God, I know that He will keep his promise to any person that heeds Jer 29:13 And you shall seek and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. Some will, most will not.
I thank each one making "allegations" about Christianity as it allows me to critically examine these allegations and clarify issues.
I understand your point, although I do not necessarily agree that it is valid. You did however bring up a very good point. When one is indoctrinated from birth(Or at a very young age), and is taught a very comforting message, along with a very scary warning, it is very difficult to break free from that indoctrination, add to that, the fact that the belief is part of the majority belief, not only in the persons' family, but in society in general, it makes breaking away even more difficult.

As for the prediction of events in the end times... All holy books and texts have a very similar warning, and for good reason. Think of it not as prophecy, but as a form of self-protection of the belief system itself. If you wanted to keep adherents to your religion in line, you would naturally warn them about listening to others, and you would reinforce a fear of eternal damnation.

Lastly, I have to ask the question... If god is real, and wants to use a book to present his word as proof, why did he leave such a flawed book? The bible is so riddled with inaccuacies, that it is impossible for me to entertain the idea that it came from a divine being. Just consider the fact that everything in the bible was known to any first or second century writer. There is nothing in there that was beyond the knowledge of a person living in the time that it was written. It just seems funny to me that an all knowing god wouldn't say for instance "It is bad to keep slaves", or, "There are no such things as witches".

As a side note... I am enjoying our conversation and debate. Lets continue to keep it civil and academic.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#402
Oct 6, 2012
 
Jehovah is God wrote:
<quoted text>
Until you understand the meaning of those titles of Jesus as the Messianic King, you will not understand that prophecy.
Any questions you have can be answered by Jehovah's witnesses in your area or you may have to travel to find them, that is up to you.
I accept that you are unable to answer it. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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#403
Oct 6, 2012
 
Amused wrote:
<quoted text>
Reality.
And that is?
Jehovah is God

Tulsa, OK

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#404
Oct 6, 2012
 
Andre wrote:
<quoted text>I accept that you are unable to answer it. If you disagree, prove me wrong.
You are making Jesus Almighty God Jehovah, when Jesus is not God, but the Lamb of God and the only begotten son of Jehovah God. Those titles of Jesus as Messianic King means he will rule over this earth for a thousand years for Almighty God Jehovah, that is the reward Jesus recieves for his dying faithful as Jehovah's witness. 1Corinthians 15:20-28
Revelation 1:5

Since: Dec 10

Orefield, PA

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#405
Oct 6, 2012
 
Jehovah is God wrote:
<quoted text>
You are making Jesus Almighty God Jehovah, when Jesus is not God, but the Lamb of God and the only begotten son of Jehovah God. Those titles of Jesus as Messianic King means he will rule over this earth for a thousand years for Almighty God Jehovah, that is the reward Jesus recieves for his dying faithful as Jehovah's witness. 1Corinthians 15:20-28
Revelation 1:5
Of course that disagrees with what is in the Bible, but your cult rewrote that part too. Luckily for you, there is no god, otherwise you JW's would burn for what your cult did, and what you support.
Andre

Durban, South Africa

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Judge it!
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#406
Oct 7, 2012
 

Judged:

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The serpent was right wrote:
<quoted text>
I understand your point, although I do not necessarily agree that it is valid. You did however bring up a very good point. When one is indoctrinated from birth(Or at a very young age), and is taught a very comforting message, along with a very scary warning, it is very difficult to break free from that indoctrination, add to that, the fact that the belief is part of the majority belief, not only in the persons' family, but in society in general, it makes breaking away even more difficult.
Thank you for the opportunity to discuss issues in a civil manner, I appreciate that.
Indoctrination
I would agree 100% that “breaking away” would be very difficult for a person that comes from a totally different background, especially if the background, social environment is antagonistic towards the “newly adopted” belief system. I do not particularly like the word “indoctrinated” as that conjures up images of “brainwashing”. It would in most cases be for instance parents and others with the best intentions teach their children their belief system.
As for the prediction of events in the end times... All holy books and texts have a very similar warning, and for good reason. Think of it not as prophecy, but as a form of self-protection of the belief system itself. If you wanted to keep adherents to your religion in line, you would naturally warn them about listening to others, and you would reinforce a fear of eternal damnation.
Prediction of end times /Prophecy seems to me to serve at least one purpose: Encouragement to Christians -knowing that God is in total control. There may be some people that would cling to Christianity because of fear of end times. There are cults that rely on fear to keep their converts, but that is not my experience and in any of the books that I read (mainly purists who placed a lot more emphasis on judgement)

It is difficult to respond to flaws as you do not mention specific examples, but I will be happy to respond if you would like to mention specifics.
It just seems funny to me that an all knowing god wouldn't say for instance "It is bad to keep slaves", or, "There are no such things as witches".
It is true that the Bible does not address what we now see as social evils. The question is whether slavery in itself a sin? I cannot say that slavery is a sin if the “slave-master” treats his slaves properly, pays them a decent wage etc. For this reason, provision is even made for slaves to choose to remain with his owner (e.g. Exo 21:5 And if the slave truly says, I love my master, my wife and my children; I do not desire to go out free,).
It is true that people are often exploited - even in today’s economy – hence the trade union movement. That one was legally bound to a master is of course different, but it does not imply abuse of slaves. You will possibly know of a few friends that are “abused” by their masters, but due to circumstances cannot leave their employ.

Witchcraft is obviously a rejection of God. I think that many people have the expectation that God should only be kind, loving, forgiving and generous. This is only part of the truth. The other part is clearly stated :
Deu_6:15 for Jehovah your God is a jealous God in your midst, lest the anger of Jehovah your God burn against you, and He destroy you from off the face of the earth.
This is also fully consistent with the idea of hell, where judgment and punishment is meted out to unbelievers.
Israel was God's special people and all evil was to be eradicated, by means which we now frown on - I believe because we have "domesticated" sin to become "not so bad"

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