'Prayer' by atheists doesn't make sense -- Montour County, John...

Regarding Paul Carpenter's March 14 column: Isn't the phrase ''an atheist giving the invocation'' in the state Senate just a bit oxymornic? Exactly whom will we be invoking? Recently, I coached some eighth ...

[Lurker]

We are after all,' one Nation, under God"

[StaberDearth]

They pray to the great cosmic mexican muffin in the Sombrero Galaxy...

[taksavillage]

Praying to NOTHING. And atheists call Christians deluded.

How about this for the invocation.

"I came from nothing, i return to nothing, i am ..."

[taksavillage]

...noything."

[Allentown_Frank]

How did you jump from Carpenter's article about prayer to a supposed "implication that there is no room for God in our country?"

[Chris]

Have to agree with the article. The presupposition that there is no room for God is wrong. Considering the overwhelming majority out there believe in something beyond us, it would be irrational to exclude God from public discourse.

However, trying to limit how one talks to God or understands God, that's another matter.

[The Lib Terminator]

Mary Sue,

Very good letter. A sensible response to the extreme views of Mr. Carptenter.

People like Mr Carpenter don't want God anywhere, apparently. That's fine.

But they should stop peddling their personal opinions when others want to say what they want including God anywhere on earth. Including in congress and in courts of law. That is where God is needed most. And that is where extremists are most rabid.

That is why our founding fathers included freedom of religion, not freedom "from" religion.

Freedom "from" religion is the new 'right' developed by the nations extremists. They just made it up folks. It does not exist, except in their twisted minds.

Contrary to extremist denials of talking about God anywhere, it truly is a constitutional right that all Americans can and must use.

Despite all the hysterical rantings of rabid atheists and other like minded extremists.

[OLDE DUDE]

In nam, in mud up to the tits, bullets flyin like rain;I've seen many an atheist praying like no tomorrows.....

[MyKidsDad]

The Lib Terminator wrote:

Mary Sue,
Very good letter. A sensible response to the extreme views of Mr. Carptenter.
People like Mr Carpenter don't want God anywhere, apparently. That's fine.
But they should stop peddling their personal opinions when others want to say what they want including God anywhere on earth. Including in congress and in courts of law. That is where God is needed most. And that is where extremists are most rabid.
That is why our founding fathers included freedom of religion, not freedom "from" religion.
Freedom "from" religion is the new 'right' developed by the nations extremists. They just made it up folks. It does not exist, except in their twisted minds.
Contrary to extremist denials of talking about God anywhere, it truly is a constitutional right that all Americans can and must use.
Despite all the hysterical rantings of rabid atheists and other like minded extremists.

You are so right. But atheist extremists apparently were absent from English class when prepositions were being discussed. Apparently their brains can't comprehend that 'of" and "from" mean two different things. But then again, who can blame them. Bubba doesn't know the meaning of the word "is"!

[Trik]

Leaving Mr. Carpenter out of this...
The thought of an Athiest giving an Invocation (aka Prayer) is absurd. How can one pray to a being that s/he doesn't believe in? How can one be blessed by NOTHING?

And... WHY is the athiest willing to tackle such a challenge? Is s/he willing to pay lip service to a god that s/he doesn't believe in? Is that not hypocracy? Doesn't that take away from the point of an invocation?

Were these issues ever addressed?

[Headhunter]

The reason Atheists don't want religion in government is to protect every-body's religious freedom.
I don't care who worships what god. have at it. Despite the silly propaganda, Atheists aren't out to deny anyone that right. When you do something like post the 10 Commandments in a courthouse for instance, your suggesting that that specific god (the first 4 are about how that particular god demands to be worshiped) has influence over people's rights.
You would no doubt feel differently if you saw references to Islam popping up in schools and government buildings.
Please think about it. You can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion.

[MyKidsDad]

Headhunter wrote:

The reason Atheists don't want religion in government is to protect every-body's religious freedom.
I don't care who worships what god. have at it. Despite the silly propaganda, Atheists aren't out to deny anyone that right. When you do something like post the 10 Commandments in a courthouse for instance, your suggesting that that specific god (the first 4 are about how that particular god demands to be worshiped) has influence over people's rights.
You would no doubt feel differently if you saw references to Islam popping up in schools and government buildings.
Please think about it. You can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion.

Wrong, wrong, wrong! I work with people of various faiths, I have discussed religion (gasp, even in the workplace) with people of other faiths, yet I am still free to practice MY religion. Perhaps you are too weak minded and are too easily influenced by what you see and hear, but most of us are not. We can handle it. We are big boys and girls.

The Judeo-Christian philosophy played a big role in the founding of this country and our laws. Islam did not. That's just fact. That's why the 10 commandments were displayed in courthouses before weeny atheists threw a temper tantrum.

[Allentown_Frank]

Trik wrote:

Leaving Mr. Carpenter out of this...
The thought of an Athiest giving an Invocation (aka Prayer) is absurd. How can one pray to a being that s/he doesn't believe in? How can one be blessed by NOTHING?
And... WHY is the athiest willing to tackle such a challenge? Is s/he willing to pay lip service to a god that s/he doesn't believe in? Is that not hypocracy? Doesn't that take away from the point of an invocation?
Were these issues ever addressed?

I'll play the Devil's Advocate with you on that one. Perhaps an atheist would be the ideal person to give the invocation. We elect our politicians to do actual work. What better way to remind our leaders of that then by dispensing with needless platitudes, and saying some words like, "The power to make THIS world a better place is in our hands. Let's stop fooling around and get to work."

[steve-2304]

Ah, the tolerant Christian called me a weenie. How utterly tolerant and non-judgemental of you.

JC will be proud.

[American]

This argument is as old as our history. I don't fear God, I fear fanatics.

[steve-2304]

OLDE DUDE wrote:

In nam, in mud up to the tits, bullets flyin like rain;I've seen many an atheist praying like no tomorrows.....

Not all of them....

http://www.atheistfoxholes.org/

[MyKidsDad]

Allentown_Frank wrote:

<quoted text>
I'll play the Devil's Advocate with you on that one. Perhaps an atheist would be the ideal person to give the invocation. We elect our politicians to do actual work. What better way to remind our leaders of that then by dispensing with needless platitudes, and saying some words like, "The power to make THIS world a better place is in our hands. Let's stop fooling around and get to work."

Because man was given the ability to accomplish things by God. So it's a thank-you!

Atheists have no place in government because they do not represent the majority of people.

[Chris]

Headhunter wrote:

The reason Atheists don't want religion in government is to protect every-body's religious freedom.
I don't care who worships what god. have at it. Despite the silly propaganda, Atheists aren't out to deny anyone that right. When you do something like post the 10 Commandments in a courthouse for instance, your suggesting that that specific god (the first 4 are about how that particular god demands to be worshiped) has influence over people's rights.
You would no doubt feel differently if you saw references to Islam popping up in schools and government buildings.
Please think about it. You can't have freedom of religion without freedom from religion.

I considered this an interesting concept, if a bit of a reach. Freedom of religion implies that you are free believe how you see fit. Freedom from religion means you have the right to stop others from openly expressing their religious views.

While I'm with you on a theological perspective, I don't think freedom from religion is a good idea. It stifles open exchange of ideas, and that's not the way a free society should operate.

The 10 Commandments in a courthouse, what difference does that make? The judge must adhere to the rule of law, not religion. Having the 10 Commandments is a reminder of the early foundations of law. Nothing more. A judge does not enforce them, but respecting the evolution of law by remembering the roots is not a bad idea.

[steve-2304]

MyKidsDad wrote:

Atheists have no place in government because they do not represent the majority of people.

Um, if we ran our Government with your logic, Al Gore would be President.

You need a history lesson, our founding fathers set up the Government the way they did for this exact reason, to make sure the minority viewpoints were adequately represented. Good grief, read a History book man.

Oh, and by the way, statistics would indicate there are dozens of atheists in Congress. Your kind just makes them stay in the closet. You know, the tolerant, non-judgemental Christian that you are....

[MyKidsDad]

steve-2304 wrote:

<quoted text>
Um, if we ran our Government with your logic, Al Gore would be President.
You need a history lesson, our founding fathers set up the Government the way they did for this exact reason, to make sure the minority viewpoints were adequately represented. Good grief, read a History book man.
Oh, and by the way, statistics would indicate there are dozens of atheists in Congress. Your kind just makes them stay in the closet. You know, the tolerant, non-judgemental Christian that you are....

Hope they stay in the closet and keep their stupid opinions to themselves and leave the rest of us alone to practice our religion, display our religion as we see fit, and not sanitize the landscape, making every place look like every other place by banning what can and can't be displayed. I would never knowingly vote for an atheist if I could help it.