Holy War Breaks Out at Public University Over Atheism, Evolution and Intelligent Design

Oct 4, 2013 Full story: TheBlaze.com 207

When atheist activists launched a battle over intelligent design at Ball State University earlier this year, they sparked a holy war in higher education that has university officials scrambling to critically examine courses and professorial credentials.

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“There is no god!”

Since: Jun 12

SŲdertšlje, Sweden

#1 Oct 4, 2013
Waaah waaah waaaah we're oppressed when science classes don't teach people that it was god who made us and everything

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#2 Oct 5, 2013
Fundies are always trying to have creationism taught as fact, they are losing every battle.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#3 Oct 7, 2013
The administrators of Ball State **should** be embarrassed that they hired an idiot who taught "intelligent design" as a **science** class.

What is this? A frikkin' religious school?

“My hand is over my crotch.”

Since: Jan 10

It's time to put it to use

#4 Oct 7, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
The administrators of Ball State **should** be embarrassed that they hired an idiot who taught "intelligent design" as a **science** class.
What is this? A frikkin' religious school?
They ere trying to appease the religious nuts by equating scientific theory with prehistoric myth.

“Lets all play DantheDipshyts”

Since: Mar 13

game.of annoyance. It's fun.

#5 Oct 7, 2013
Most would agree that (natural or artificial) selection produces variations in living things. Thatís why we have different species and breeds. Though there are a few that think ID (design) is what it all is about.

When teaching the theory of evolution by natural selection it includes the origin of life (abiogenesis), creative mutations, and long ages (time). It is not limited to natural selection.

We could argue at length as to whether the origin of life and evolution are two separate things, but arguing about whether or not the origin of life is technically part of the theory of evolution is exactly what evolutionists would like people to do. It is simply a red herring used to divert the discussion away from evolution.

If you want to teach evolution by natural selection I see no problem with that. But there is no need to teach that life arose from a muddy soup along with it for it can not be proven with evidence any more than a God can.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#6 Oct 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
We could argue at length as to whether the origin of life and evolution are two separate things, but arguing about whether or not the origin of life is technically part of the theory of evolution is exactly what evolutionists would like people to do. It is simply a red herring used to divert the discussion away from evolution.
Yup, a red herring used by creationists by saying evolution is wrong cuz it doesn't address abiogenesis. This is because they can't refute evolution.

The argument doesn't matter, simple fact is that the theory of evolution does not rely on abiogenesis. Abio is not a problem for evolution.
replaytime wrote:
If you want to teach evolution by natural selection I see no problem with that. But there is no need to teach that life arose from a muddy soup along with it for it can not be proven with evidence any more than a God can.
The evidence indicates that life arose via natural chemical processes around 3.5 to 3.8 billion years ago. Whether it was via hydrothermal vents, pool of water, panspermia or something else is not known at present. Which is why abio is a hypothesis and not a theory. There is no problem with teaching this unless one happens to have theological beefs, which pure and simply do not matter.

As for God, it is utterly irrelevant to a scientific discussion so there is no reason to bring it up. Especially in school science classes where it is illegal to do so anyway.

P.s. Congratulations once again for showing your extreme ignorance of evolution.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#7 Oct 8, 2013
The Dude wrote:
<quoted text>
As for God, it is utterly irrelevant to a scientific discussion so there is no reason to bring it up. Especially in school science classes where it is illegal to do so anyway.
God is covered in science through neuroscience.
The Dude

Birkenhead, UK

#8 Oct 8, 2013
No it isn't.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#9 Oct 8, 2013
The Dude wrote:
No it isn't.
Yes it is, look at research done on psilocybin also look at research done on the "god" part of the brain.

You need to educate yourself instead of being an ignorant asshat.

By the way you are getting a slaughtering in the other thread.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#10 Oct 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
Most would agree that (natural or artificial) selection produces variations in living things. Thatís why we have different species and breeds. Though there are a few that think ID (design) is what it all is about.
When teaching the theory of evolution by natural selection it includes the origin of life (abiogenesis), creative mutations, and long ages (time). It is not limited to natural selection.
We could argue at length as to whether the origin of life and evolution are two separate things, but arguing about whether or not the origin of life is technically part of the theory of evolution is exactly what evolutionists would like people to do. It is simply a red herring used to divert the discussion away from evolution.
If you want to teach evolution by natural selection I see no problem with that. But there is no need to teach that life arose from a muddy soup along with it for it can not be proven with evidence any more than a God can.
People that deny evolution need mental help

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#11 Oct 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
Most would agree that (natural or artificial) selection produces variations in living things. Thatís why we have different species and breeds. Though there are a few that think ID (design) is what it all is about.
Only morons think ID is worth anything-- ID is creationism re-branded in a futile attempt to get it past religious restrictions in public school. And nothing more.
replaytime wrote:
When teaching the theory of evolution by natural selection it includes the origin of life (abiogenesis), creative mutations, and long ages (time). It is not limited to natural selection.
No, doofus: evolution **is** natural selection. To say otherwise? Is to appear ... stupid.

Oh. Wait. it's **you** isn't it?
replaytime wrote:
We could argue at length as to whether the origin of life and evolution are two separate things, but arguing about whether or not the origin of life is technically part of the theory of evolution is exactly what evolutionists would like people to do. It is simply a red herring used to divert the discussion away from evolution.
Only deeply religious bigots use the term "evolutionists"-- it's a creationist's attempt to re-brand the scientific theory of evolution as religion.

But keep digging...
replaytime wrote:
If you want to teach evolution by natural selection I see no problem with that. But there is no need to teach that life arose from a muddy soup along with it for it can not be proven with evidence any more than a God can.
Invoking magic is not science. And, by definition, all gods are magic, so...

... I knew you were an idiot. I had no idea you were **this** much of one.

“Lets all play DantheDipshyts”

Since: Mar 13

game.of annoyance. It's fun.

#12 Oct 8, 2013
To all you idiots,,,, When teaching the theory of evolution by natural selection it includes the origin of life (abiogenesis). It is not limited to natural selection right? YES or NO?

If it is Yes, then shut the hellll up.

If it is No, then keep complaining right along.

Fact is when evolution is taught so is the origin of life through abiogenesis. LIKE IT OR NOT!

If evolution would have stuck to evolution it would not have been such a big deal. But to also try to teach abiogenesis to rule out God is where you met the brick wall. For many believe in evolution, but not abiogenesis.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#13 Oct 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
To all you idiots,,,, When teaching the theory of evolution by natural selection it includes the origin of life (abiogenesis). It is not limited to natural selection right? YES or NO?
No. Unless the course mentions theories and hypothesis outside the scope of natural selection (evolution).

In any case? Abiogenesis is a hypothesis, at present. Not a thesis.

And the only alternative? Is magic? Well, as already mentioned, magic (god) is not scientific.

If it is Yes, then shut the hellll up.
If it is No, then keep complaining right along.
replaytime wrote:
It is you idiotic god-botherers who are complaining.

No atheist would complain in an evolution class if abiogeneisis was included.

Nor would they complain if it was missing.

It really doesn't matter to the theory either way-- once life **did** appear on earth?(by whatever) then the theory of evolution takes over from there anyway.

[QUOTE who="replaytime"]
Fact is when evolution is taught so is the origin of life through abiogenesis. LIKE IT OR NOT!
So long as it's taught as a hypothesis, so what?

At least they did not invoke....

.... something really stupid ...

..... or worse, something insane ...

........ like, say, magic or god or ID/creationism.(that last one is stupid AND insane)
replaytime wrote:
If evolution would have stuck to evolution it would not have been such a big deal. But to also try to teach abiogenesis to rule out God is where you met the brick wall. For many believe in evolution, but not abiogenesis.
Science did not rule out god-- you godbotherers did that all by yourselves.

BY FAILING TO SHOW PROOF OF THIS ....

.... this insane ...

..... magical ...

........ god-thing.

Do you have any, by the way?(proof of god)

No?

Just as we thought: you ***are*** a low-grade moron.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#14 Oct 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
To all you idiots,,,, When teaching the theory of evolution by natural selection it includes the origin of life (abiogenesis). It is not limited to natural selection right? YES or NO?
No. Unless the course mentions theories and hypothesis outside the scope of natural selection (evolution).

In any case? Abiogenesis is a hypothesis, at present. Not a thesis.

And the only alternative? Is magic? Well, as already mentioned, magic (god) is not scientific.
replaytime wrote:
If it is Yes, then shut the hellll up.
If it is No, then keep complaining right along.[QUOTE who="replaytime"]

It is you idiotic god-botherers who are complaining.

No atheist would complain in an evolution class if abiogeneisis was included.

Nor would they complain if it was missing.

It really doesn't matter to the theory either way-- once life **did** appear on earth?(by whatever) then the theory of evolution takes over from there anyway.

[QUOTE who="replaytime"]
Fact is when evolution is taught so is the origin of life through abiogenesis. LIKE IT OR NOT!
So long as it's taught as a hypothesis, so what?

At least they did not invoke....

.... something really stupid ...

..... or worse, something insane ...

........ like, say, magic or god or ID/creationism.(that last one is stupid AND insane)
replaytime wrote:
If evolution would have stuck to evolution it would not have been such a big deal. But to also try to teach abiogenesis to rule out God is where you met the brick wall. For many believe in evolution, but not abiogenesis.
Science did not rule out god-- you godbotherers did that all by yourselves.

BY FAILING TO SHOW PROOF OF THIS ....

.... this insane ...

..... magical ...

........ god-thing.

Do you have any, by the way?(proof of god)

No?

Just as we thought: you ***are*** a low-grade moron.

“Pissing people off since 1949”

Since: Apr 08

Lakeland, FL

#15 Oct 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
To all you idiots,,,, When teaching the theory of evolution by natural selection it includes the origin of life (abiogenesis). It is not limited to natural selection right? YES or NO?
If it is Yes, then shut the hellll up.
If it is No, then keep complaining right along.
Fact is when evolution is taught so is the origin of life through abiogenesis. LIKE IT OR NOT!
If evolution would have stuck to evolution it would not have been such a big deal. But to also try to teach abiogenesis to rule out God is where you met the brick wall. For many believe in evolution, but not abiogenesis.
That's twice you made this claim. Please provide a link to the evolution syllabus that includes abiogenesis.

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#16 Oct 8, 2013
MikeF wrote:
<quoted text>
That's twice you made this claim. Please provide a link to the evolution syllabus that includes abiogenesis.
Indeed.

“The strength of science is”

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#17 Oct 8, 2013
replaytime wrote:
Most would agree that (natural or artificial) selection produces variations in living things. Thatís why we have different species and breeds. Though there are a few that think ID (design) is what it all is about.
When teaching the theory of evolution by natural selection it includes the origin of life (abiogenesis), creative mutations, and long ages (time). It is not limited to natural selection.
We could argue at length as to whether the origin of life and evolution are two separate things, but arguing about whether or not the origin of life is technically part of the theory of evolution is exactly what evolutionists would like people to do. It is simply a red herring used to divert the discussion away from evolution.
If you want to teach evolution by natural selection I see no problem with that. But there is no need to teach that life arose from a muddy soup along with it for it can not be proven with evidence any more than a God can.
Natural and artificial selection don't produce variation in living things. The variation must exist in order for either type of selection to work.

The origin of life and evolution are two different things. There really isn't much to argue over regarding that.

I think anyone accepting the theory of evolution would like people to understand it well enough to know that the origin of life or abiogenesis is a distinct and separate concept.

“The strength of science is”

Since: Jan 11

founded in facts.

#18 Oct 8, 2013
When I was taught evolution, it did not include a discussion of life's origins nor was it implied or stated that the theory of evolution required such.

“Lets all play DantheDipshyts”

Since: Mar 13

game.of annoyance. It's fun.

#19 Oct 8, 2013
Bob of Quantum-Faith wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Unless the course mentions theories and hypothesis outside the scope of natural selection (evolution).
In any case? Abiogenesis is a hypothesis, at present. Not a thesis.
And the only alternative? Is magic? Well, as already mentioned, magic (god) is not scientific.
<quoted text>
So long as it's taught as a hypothesis, so what?
At least they did not invoke....
.... something really stupid ...
..... or worse, something insane ...
........ like, say, magic or god or ID/creationism.(that last one is stupid AND insane)
<quoted text>
Science did not rule out god-- you godbotherers did that all by yourselves.
BY FAILING TO SHOW PROOF OF THIS ....
.... this insane ...
..... magical ...
........ god-thing.
Do you have any, by the way?(proof of god)
No?
Just as we thought: you ***are*** a low-grade moron.
When it comes to life The ONLY thing we have empirical evidence of is that living things come from other living things. That is biogenesis. Abiogenesis is a living thing coming from a non-living thing.

“Lets all play DantheDipshyts”

Since: Mar 13

game.of annoyance. It's fun.

#20 Oct 8, 2013
DanFromSmithville wrote:
<quoted text>Natural and artificial selection don't produce variation in living things. The variation must exist in order for either type of selection to work.
The origin of life and evolution are two different things. There really isn't much to argue over regarding that.
I think anyone accepting the theory of evolution would like people to understand it well enough to know that the origin of life or abiogenesis is a distinct and separate concept.
I kind of see what you are trying to say but yet I still look at evolution by natural selection which is change in a population which is a variant from what it was to what it became.

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