Is My Dog an Atheist?

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#82 May 4, 2013
Okay, typo acknowledged.

should have said "ignorance is sufficient to make a human being and atheist."

The ignorance of dogs does not make them atheists.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#83 May 5, 2013
BeHereNow wrote:
Okay, typo acknowledged.
should have said "ignorance is sufficient to make a human being and atheist."
The ignorance of dogs does not make them atheists.
Whether one is ignorant of others imaginings or not, it is still very possible for that one to be an atheist. "Not a theist", do you know what the meaning of that phrase is? That would be an "atheist".

Are your dog or newborn to toddler age children theist? The correct answer is neither is. For either to become a theist, that one would need be indoctrinated. Until then both are atheist. Atheist = not theist.
If you disagree with this definition, maybe you should try to disprove the significance of the letter "a" in the word atheist.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#84 May 6, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Whether one is ignorant of others imaginings or not, it is still very possible for that one to be an atheist. "Not a theist", do you know what the meaning of that phrase is? That would be an "atheist".
Are your dog or newborn to toddler age children theist? The correct answer is neither is. For either to become a theist, that one would need be indoctrinated. Until then both are atheist. Atheist = not theist.
If you disagree with this definition, maybe you should try to disprove the significance of the letter "a" in the word atheist.
For the sake of argument let’s see where your logic takes us.
If ‘not an theist’, is the same as ‘atheist’, then ‘not an atheist’, must mean ‘theist.
So when Einstein say “I’m not an atheist”, he is telling us he is a theist, according to your logic.
( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
I disagree. Convince us you are correct.

EdSed tell us ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... ) what one of your sacred books says:
“a•the•ist
n.
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being.
And
atheist, agnostic, infidel refer to persons lacking religious belief or a particular religious faith. An atheist denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God without sufficient evidence. An infidel is an unbeliever, esp. one who does not accept Christianity or Islam; the word is usu. pejorative.

Denial is required, not simply 'no opinion'>
But I repeat myself ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
~~
Among those who do not believe in god, MOST of them do not consider themselves as atheists.
(For example, Greeley's 2003 survey found that 31% of Britons did not believe in God, but only 10% considered themselves 'atheist'.-( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )

We also see that Dawkins, an known atheist,“opposes describing a child as 'Atheist' or 'Christian' suggests that he views atheism as a conscious position and thus leans towards the dictionary definition of atheism as necessarily an active disbelief:”(same reference)
So your argument is not only against what I say, but what Dawkins says as well.

Your defense is what I call the sacred book defense.
You want to use some dictionary meaning of letters and words to prove your point, when most of the world disagrees with you.
You say ignorance itself is sufficient to be an atheist, while other say certain beliefs are required.

You try to change the meaning of a term, but still have a minority viewpoint.

Since: Jun 07

Location hidden

#85 May 6, 2013
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>
For the sake of argument let’s see where your logic takes us.
If ‘not an theist’, is the same as ‘atheist’, then ‘not an atheist’, must mean ‘theist.
So when Einstein say “I’m not an atheist”, he is telling us he is a theist, according to your logic.
( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
I disagree. Convince us you are correct.
EdSed tell us ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... ) what one of your sacred books says:
“a•the•ist
n.
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being.
And
atheist, agnostic, infidel refer to persons lacking religious belief or a particular religious faith. An atheist denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God without sufficient evidence. An infidel is an unbeliever, esp. one who does not accept Christianity or Islam; the word is usu. pejorative.
Denial is required, not simply 'no opinion'>
But I repeat myself ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
~~
Among those who do not believe in god, MOST of them do not consider themselves as atheists.
(For example, Greeley's 2003 survey found that 31% of Britons did not believe in God, but only 10% considered themselves 'atheist'.-( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
We also see that Dawkins, an known atheist,“opposes describing a child as 'Atheist' or 'Christian' suggests that he views atheism as a conscious position and thus leans towards the dictionary definition of atheism as necessarily an active disbelief:”(same reference)
So your argument is not only against what I say, but what Dawkins says as well.
Your defense is what I call the sacred book defense.
You want to use some dictionary meaning of letters and words to prove your point, when most of the world disagrees with you.
You say ignorance itself is sufficient to be an atheist, while other say certain beliefs are required.
You try to change the meaning of a term, but still have a minority viewpoint.
Another theist trying to lie about Einstein's beliefs:

"I have never talked to a Jesuit priest in my life and I am astonished by the audacity to tell such lies about me. From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.... It is always misleading to use anthropomorphical concepts in dealing with things outside the human sphere—childish analogies. We have to admire in humility and beautiful harmony of the structure of this world—as far as we can grasp it. And that is all."

Albert Einstein 1945

Einsteins views on atheism matter just as much as a creationists - not at all.

But if you're going to quote Einstein, at least get it right.

The fact is that no theist has any proof of god. They know it and thats why they can't stop lying to everyone around them, because the more people that believe the lie, the less guilty they feel about lying.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#87 May 6, 2013
You don’t understand what he means by “From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.” I am not surprised, being the Fanatic atheist that you are.

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest, a Muslim is an atheist, since he does not believe the Word of God.

From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest, Hindus are Atheists, for the same reason.

Einstein ~~
I was barked at by numerous dogs who are earning their food guarding ignorance and superstition for the benefit of those who profit from it. Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is of the same kind as the intolerance of the religious fanatics and comes from the same source. They are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional "opium of the people"—cannot bear the music of the spheres. The Wonder of nature does not become smaller because one cannot measure it by the standards of human moral and human aims.
— Einstein to an unidentified adressee, Aug.7, 1941. Einstein Archive, reel 54-927, quoted in Jammer, p. 97
http://www.einsteinandreligion.com/atheism.ht...

~~
You and others should see yourselves in his description, but ignorance is bliss, and rationality is for the rational, not fanatics.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#88 May 6, 2013
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>
For the sake of argument let’s see where your logic takes us.
If ‘not an theist’, is the same as ‘atheist’, then ‘not an atheist’, must mean ‘theist.
So when Einstein say “I’m not an atheist”, he is telling us he is a theist, according to your logic.
( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
I disagree. Convince us you are correct.
EdSed tell us ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... ) what one of your sacred books says:
“a•the•ist
n.
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being.
And
atheist, agnostic, infidel refer to persons lacking religious belief or a particular religious faith. An atheist denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God without sufficient evidence. An infidel is an unbeliever, esp. one who does not accept Christianity or Islam; the word is usu. pejorative.
Denial is required, not simply 'no opinion'>
But I repeat myself ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
~~
Among those who do not believe in god, MOST of them do not consider themselves as atheists.
(For example, Greeley's 2003 survey found that 31% of Britons did not believe in God, but only 10% considered themselves 'atheist'.-( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
We also see that Dawkins, an known atheist,“opposes describing a child as 'Atheist' or 'Christian' suggests that he views atheism as a conscious position and thus leans towards the dictionary definition of atheism as necessarily an active disbelief:”(same reference)
So your argument is not only against what I say, but what Dawkins says as well.
Your defense is what I call the sacred book defense.
You want to use some dictionary meaning of letters and words to prove your point, when most of the world disagrees with you.
You say ignorance itself is sufficient to be an atheist, while other say certain beliefs are required.
You try to change the meaning of a term, but still have a minority viewpoint.
It is, an either/or situation, there are those who are and those who aren't atheist. Everyone is atheist and will remain so, unless indoctrinated.

Much has been attributed to Einstein, some of it was actually his.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#89 May 7, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>It is, an either/or situation, there are those who are and those who aren't atheist. Everyone is atheist and will remain so, unless indoctrinated.
Much has been attributed to Einstein, some of it was actually his.
So tell me.
Who is it that indocrinated those first ones who said "There is a god."
let to their own devices they would not find god, that is what you would have us believe.
Your words:
"Everyone is atheist and will remain so, unless indoctrinated."

So who indoctinated those first humans?
If people today cannot have the original belief - resulting from spiritual experiences - that god exists, surely early humans were no different.

Left to their own divices all people will be atheist unless indoctrinated (you tell us), so who indoctrinated those first humans?
Let me guess - aliens.
I'll bet that's it.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#90 May 7, 2013
My quotes of Einsten stand unchallenged, that is obvious.
Unchallenged by critics who do not like what he said.
Unchallenged and doubted are logically incongruous.

Put up or shut up.
I provided orignal source documentation, and no one questions the specifics, only inply that they don't like it, and certainly disagree with it.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#91 May 7, 2013
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>So tell me.
....Left to their own divices all people will be atheist unless indoctrinated (you tell us), so who indoctrinated those first humans?...
It was one thing to believe in gods and fairies when people thought the Earth was flat. They're in the 21st century.

Religion = superstition

Jonny Eve explains the "bleedin' obvious"....
http://www.atheismuk.com/2012/03/31/atheism/y...
:-)
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#92 May 7, 2013
Oops: meant to write, "They're absurd [ideas] in the 21st century"
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#93 May 7, 2013
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>
For the sake of argument let’s see where your logic takes us.
If ‘not an theist’, is the same as ‘atheist’, then ‘not an atheist’, must mean ‘theist.
So when Einstein say “I’m not an atheist”, he is telling us he is a theist, according to your logic.
( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
I disagree. Convince us you are correct.
EdSed tell us ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... ) what one of your sacred books says:
“a•the•ist
n.
a person who denies or disbelieves the existence of a supreme being.
And
atheist, agnostic, infidel refer to persons lacking religious belief or a particular religious faith. An atheist denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. An agnostic believes it is impossible to know whether there is a God without sufficient evidence. An infidel is an unbeliever, esp. one who does not accept Christianity or Islam; the word is usu. pejorative.
Denial is required, not simply 'no opinion'>
But I repeat myself ( http://www.topix.com/forum/religion/atheism/T... )
~~
Among those who do not believe in god, MOST of them do not consider themselves as atheists.
(For example, Greeley's 2003 survey found that 31% of Britons did not believe in God, but only 10% considered themselves 'atheist'.-...
Similarly, many people who say they are religious or believers, don't seriously believe in god(s). And I was recorded as Christian in the UK's 2001 national census because of the way the question was asked.
From:
http://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and...
"When the same sample was asked the follow-up question ‘Are you religious?’, only 29% of the same people said ‘Yes’ while 65% said ‘No’, meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious."

http://humanism.org.uk/2013/05/07/church-stat...

Religions and beliefs in gods and pixies are outdated.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#94 May 7, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>Whether one is ignorant of others imaginings or not, it is still very possible for that one to be an atheist. "Not a theist", do you know what the meaning of that phrase is? That would be an "atheist".
Are your dog or newborn to toddler age children theist? The correct answer is neither is. For either to become a theist, that one would need be indoctrinated. Until then both are atheist. Atheist = not theist.
If you disagree with this definition, maybe you should try to disprove the significance of the letter "a" in the word atheist.
That is not what it means.

The word "atheist" means one who denies god; one who holds the belief that there is no god.

From the Greek word "atheos" - no god.

Since: Nov 08

Location hidden

#95 May 7, 2013
EdSed wrote:
<quoted text>Similarly, many people who say they are religious or believers, don't seriously believe in god(s). And I was recorded as Christian in the UK's 2001 national census because of the way the question was asked.
From:
http://humanism.org.uk/campaigns/religion-and...
"When the same sample was asked the follow-up question ‘Are you religious?’, only 29% of the same people said ‘Yes’ while 65% said ‘No’, meaning over half of those whom the census would count as having a religion said they were not religious."
http://humanism.org.uk/2013/05/07/church-stat...
Religions and beliefs in gods and pixies are outdated.
And you think all of this has something to do with the meaning of the term 'atheist'?
Red herring alert, that's what I see.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#96 May 7, 2013
Reason Personified wrote:
<quoted text>It is, an either/or situation, there are those who are and those who aren't atheist. Everyone is atheist and will remain so, unless indoctrinated.
Much has been attributed to Einstein, some of it was actually his.
No. Atheism is an active belief.

You are attempting a fraud by proposing it as a neutral position.

It is interesting that the modern atheists are so dishonest about this.

Sign of a weak case.
EdSed

Hamilton, UK

#97 May 7, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Atheism is an active belief....
No, in everyday use it's disbelief in god(s).
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/atheist
Anyway, religion/atheism is outdated drivel. An Abrahamic god(s) is just superstition.

Buck Crick

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#98 May 7, 2013
BeHereNow wrote:
You don’t understand what he means by “From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest I am, of course, and have always been an atheist.” I am not surprised, being the Fanatic atheist that you are.
From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest, a Muslim is an atheist, since he does not believe the Word of God.
From the viewpoint of a Jesuit priest, Hindus are Atheists, for the same reason.
Einstein ~~
I was barked at by numerous dogs who are earning their food guarding ignorance and superstition for the benefit of those who profit from it. Then there are the fanatical atheists whose intolerance is of the same kind as the intolerance of the religious fanatics and comes from the same source. They are like slaves who are still feeling the weight of their chains which they have thrown off after hard struggle. They are creatures who—in their grudge against the traditional "opium of the people"—cannot bear the music of the spheres.
You and others should see yourselves in his description, but ignorance is bliss, and rationality is for the rational, not fanatics.
You are an idiot.
An "atheist" believes there are no gods.
It's not just a disagreement with one conception of god.
Atheism: a + theos, denying god" (Oxford Dictionary of English Etymology).
"Atheism, from the Greek a-theos ("no-god"), is the philosophical position that God doesn't exist. It is distinguished from agnosticism, the argument that it is impossible to know whether God exists or not" (Academic American Encyclopedia).
"Atheism, system of thought developed around the denial of God's existence. Atheism, so defined, first appeared during the Enlightenment, the age of reason" (Random House Encyclopedia).
"Atheism (from the Greek a-, not, and theos, god) is the view that there are no gods. A widely used sense denotes merely not believing in God and is consistent with agnosticism. A stricter sense denotes a belief that there is no God, the use has become the standard one" (Cambridge Dictionary of Philosophy).
"Atheism is the doctrine that there is no God. Some atheists support this claim by arguments, but these arguments are usually directed against the Christian concept of God, and are largely irrelevant to other possible gods" (Oxford Companion to Philosophy).
"Atheism is disbelief in God" (Introduction to Philosophy, Perry and Bratman, Oxford University Press).
"Atheism from the Greek a (not) plus theos (god). The doctrine of disbelief in a supreme being" (Dictionary of Philosophy and Religion, William Reese, HumanitiesPress).
"Atheism (Greek, a-[private prefix]+ theos, god) is the view that there is no divine being, no God" (Dictionary of Philosophy, Thomas Mautner, Editor).
"Atheism is the belief that God doesn't exist" (The World Book Encyclopedia).
"Atheism, Greek atheos-Disbelief in, or denial of, the existence of God" (Oxford English Dictionary)
"Atheism, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. Atheism is to be distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open whether there is a god or not, professing to find the question unanswerable, for the atheist, the non-existence of god is a certainty" (The New Encyclopedia Britannia).
"According to the most usual definition, an atheist is a person who maintains that there is no god…(rejects eccentric definitions of the word)" (The Encyclopedia of Philosophy).
"Atheism is the doctrine that God does not exist, that belief in the existence of God is a false belief. The word God here refers to a divine being regarded as the independent creator of the world, a being superlatively powerful, wise and good" (Encyclopedia of Religion).
"Atheism (Greek and Roman): Atheism is a dogmatic creed, consisting in the denial of every kind of supernatural power"(Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics-Vol II).
"Atheism denies the existence of deity" (Funk and Wagnall's New Encyclopedia-Vol I).

“Quantum Junctn: Use Both Lanes”

Since: Dec 06

Tulsa, Oklahoma USofA

#99 May 7, 2013
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>So tell me.
Who is it that indocrinated those first ones who said "There is a god."
A lazy man who was incapable of hunting for food, and thus proving himself useful.

This very-very lazy fool was also a pretty slick talker, and was able to fabricate wild and crazy stories.

The combination proved useful for this lazy azz-- he would listen to the noises in the night, and then invented stories to "explain" these noises.

Sadly, gullible fools believed this lazy azz....

... and?

Within a generation? The mental disease of religion had taken hold...

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#100 May 7, 2013
BeHereNow wrote:
<quoted text>So tell me.
Who is it that indocrinated those first ones who said "There is a god."
let to their own devices they would not find god, that is what you would have us believe.
Your words:
"Everyone is atheist and will remain so, unless indoctrinated."
So who indoctinated those first humans?
If people today cannot have the original belief - resulting from spiritual experiences - that god exists, surely early humans were no different.
Left to their own divices all people will be atheist unless indoctrinated (you tell us), so who indoctrinated those first humans?
Let me guess - aliens.
I'll bet that's it.
It was the man who first imagined the god he would use as a tool. Other men have followed suit creating and recreating the myth-god tools by which they held onto both power and riches.

Haven't you read the buybull? There is one incredibly telling scripture in Genesis. Man was created for one sole purpose, and that was to till the earth. The only summation possible is that some fat lazy guy needed others to get out in the fields, while he lay about sucking down the groceries.
And so a god was born, from the mind of man.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#101 May 7, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
That is not what it means.
The word "atheist" means one who denies god; one who holds the belief that there is no god.
From the Greek word "atheos" - no god.
You know that is bull shit. The letter "a" preceding the word theist makes the word mean "not a theist". It has nothing to do with beleif, it is the default. Every human is atheist, until and unless they become indoctrinated.

“Citizen_Patriot_ Voter_Atheist!”

Since: May 09

Earth,TX

#102 May 7, 2013
Buck Crick wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Atheism is an active belief.
You are attempting a fraud by proposing it as a neutral position.
It is interesting that the modern atheists are so dishonest about this.
Sign of a weak case.
You know that is bull shit. The letter "a" preceding the word theist makes the word mean "not a theist". It has nothing to do with beleif, it is the default. Every human is atheist, until and unless they become indoctrinated.
Even your definition only says "no gods", it does not say "no beliefs". And until there is indoctrination, the only person with a god is the one who created it

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