Religion, theism and atheism

Aug 15, 2012 Full story: www.telegram.com 29

As a priest in one of Miguel Unamuno's stories tells a communicant, 'You don't have to believe in God to pray.' It is a truth universally acknowledged that we learn more from persons we disagree with than those we agree with ...

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“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#1 Aug 15, 2012
from telegram:

"Young people regarding themselves as 'spiritual,' rather than 'religious,' is the most obvious indication of organized religion’s failure to meet the needs of thoughtful seekers of all ages...

"A positive alternative, according to several theologians, is to dispense with traditional attributes of God as person, and to attend to attributes — love, creativity, justice — that we regard as essential to Being.

"That alternative is offered by John Shelby Spong, former Episcopal archbishop of Newark, now at Harvard Divinity School ... he affirms God, in rejecting theism — that is,'belief in an external, personal, supernatural, and potentially invasive Being.'"

So TEC's Spong now affirms God by rejecting any belief in His very existence?
Listen to the Word

Kingman, AZ

#2 Aug 15, 2012
If we learn more from "people" we disagree with than from "people" we agree with, then we can learn the most from God who speaks through his Word as inspired in the Bible.
The Bible is right is saying that all people are born spiritually blind, spiritually ignorant, and spirituall hostile to God. By our sinful nature, we disagree with God and everything he stands for and says.
Therefore, following the "universal acknowledgement," we can learn the most from God in his Word and not from other human beings.
No wonder Paul told us to "take every thought and make it captive to the Word of God."

(Incidently, Spong either originated or popularized the driving force in TEC in his phrase "Change or Die." Looking at TEC, they have managed to change and die. So much for Spong. Even he jumped the sinking ship for the affluent and successful waters of Harvard.)

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#3 Aug 15, 2012
I really enjoy this section from the article!

At the same time, these authors consider what religion has to offer. In doing so, they raise basic questions about theism and atheism, as well as attempts to re-imagine a sense of God in our time.

Young people regarding themselves as “spiritual,” rather than “religious,” is the most obvious indication of organized religion's failure to meet the needs of thoughtful seekers of all ages. They may regard religion's definition of itself as inadequate or nonsensical, and find it difficult not only to comprehend, but also to apprehend “the other.”

Or, disillusioned with God's indifference to holocausts, world wars, and nuclear armaments, they toss out the whole construct or embrace atheism.

A positive alternative, according to several theologians, is to dispense with traditional attributes of God as person, and to attend to attributes — love, creativity, justice — that we regard as essential to Being.

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#4 Aug 15, 2012
T McCabe wrote:
I really enjoy this section from the article!...
The same section I posted in comment #1, but without any reference to John Shelby Spong, former Episcopal archbishop?

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#5 Aug 16, 2012
T McCabe wrote:
I really enjoy this section from the article!
At the same time, these authors consider what religion has to offer. In doing so, they raise basic questions about theism and atheism, as well as attempts to re-imagine a sense of God in our time.
Young people regarding themselves as “spiritual,” rather than “religious,” is the most obvious indication of organized religion's failure to meet the needs of thoughtful seekers of all ages. They may regard religion's definition of itself as inadequate or nonsensical, and find it difficult not only to comprehend, but also to apprehend “the other.”
Or, disillusioned with God's indifference to holocausts, world wars, and nuclear armaments, they toss out the whole construct or embrace atheism.
A positive alternative, according to several theologians, is to dispense with traditional attributes of God as person, and to attend to attributes — love, creativity, justice — that we regard as essential to Being.
I agree with your assessment. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense to revisit the basics. Clearly, that is exactly what The Episcopal Church is doing. The result is the revelation of an affliction caused by an institutionalized set of hypocritical and bigoted beliefs.

Those who can't let go of their misapplied bias are trying to hold on and cover it up by claiming "orthodoxy."

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#6 Aug 16, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree with your assessment. Sometimes it makes a lot of sense to revisit the basics ...
Heresy 101?

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#7 Aug 16, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Heresy 101?
No, romans have the market on killing those who disagree with 'church' teachings, even if they go against Jesus.

Finally a place you belong.

Oh, you don't even they told you that you have FLAWED RATIONALE.

;-)

LOL..........

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#8 Aug 16, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
The same section I posted in comment #1, but without any reference to John Shelby Spong, former Episcopal archbishop?
There are nor Arch-Bishops in the Episcopal Church.

You lack of knowledge related to TEC is amazing considering your opinions about our church.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#9 Aug 16, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
Heresy 101?
LOL!!!....

Since when are the apostles to Jesus Christ to have been regarded as teaching "Heresy 101?"

I'll tell you when: Along about the time when the Bishop of Rome began to regard himself as Emperor of Rome, too. And any place else that the successors to that Bishop of Rome could convince of the idea.

Oh, there have been a number of very good popes who have served with humility and righteousness. But, the RCC is a very big unit and does not always go along with the voice of its titular head.

But, the power of that seat is full of the corruption left behind by the derrieres of its former occupants. Just changing the pillow won't cut it.

No. TEC will continue on the right track, reinforcing and butressing the very Teachings of Christ Jesus in the Way of the Early Church.

We'll continue to take our cues from the Apostles of Jesus Christ and even Jesus Himself. These were established long before the Bishop of Rome tried to run it all his way with a Course in Religious Authority titled "Heresy 101."

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#10 Aug 16, 2012
RevKen wrote:
TEC will continue on the right track, reinforcing and butressing the very Teachings of Christ Jesus in the Way of the Early Church ...
If the Eary Church taught Christ's teachings the way TEC is now teaching them, there would be no Church.

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#11 Aug 17, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
If the Eary Church taught Christ's teachings the way TEC is now teaching them, there would be no Church.
LOL!!!....

Well, there is certainly a measure of truth to your statement above.

The Early Church was basically overrun by the Church of Rome. By AD 300 much of what had been the Early Church had already been lost and covered over.

But, Truth has a way of hanging around and eventually popping up again, much to the consternation of those who would try to control it and bend its message to suit their own biases.

Knowledge and information and comprehension and understanding are one side of the coin, while experience and wisdom are the other side. When the coin is buried in order to keep it from being spent, its value is hidden. When the coin is spent and continuously and repeatedly placed in circulation, everyone who handles it gets the benefit of its trading power.

In the latter part of the 20th Century and continuing into the present, the force and power of the constant exchange of our collective and burgeoning knowledge has compounded upon itself, ramping up and growing and accelerating in its magnitude.

The truth is rising out of the places where it had been deliberately hidden. It is an unstoppable phenomenon, obviously threatening to overturn taboo and superstition, hypocrisy and bigotry, and any retrograde tradition and orthodoxy wherever such has been used to control and repress the Holy Spirit.

Be thankful that this is happening. It is the true beginning of the Resurrection and Ascension of Christ. Only this time, it begins the movement of all of Humanity, whereas the first time was the example of just one man showing the Way.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#12 Aug 17, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL!!!....
Well, there is certainly a measure of truth to your statement above.
The Early Church was basically overrun by the Church of Rome. By AD 300 much of what had been the Early Church had already been lost and covered over ...
No, the Early Church can still be found in the Eastern Orthodox Rite.

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#13 Aug 17, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
No, the Early Church can still be found in the Eastern Orthodox Rite.
Why are the romans different?

I know you have a love affair with all things Orthodox so get moving.

Go join a denomination and DO something.

Otherwise, poor dear fragile joline, goats to the left....

“The Kingdom of God Begins NOW!”

Since: May 07

The Mountain Empire

#14 Aug 17, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are the romans different?
I know you have a love affair with all things Orthodox so get moving.
Go join a denomination and DO something.
Otherwise, poor dear fragile joline, goats to the left....
Don't just put the lazy symbols joline, refute what I said.

Oh, you can't.

LOL..........

Since: Aug 09

Location hidden

#15 Aug 17, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't just put the lazy symbols joline, refute what I said.
Oh, you can't.
LOL..........
Yeah. He can't. Then he makes the ridiculous statement that the Early Church is still alive and well in the Eastern Orthodox!

Well, then,... why not the Russian Orthodox, too?

Or how about the Church of the Nazorene?

Or the Coptics or the Syrians?

What about the orthodox Jewish Christians?

And since we are in Communion with many of these, does their acceptance and endorsement of us count as an acknowledgment of our own connection and expression of the Early Church?

Yes. It certainly does.

Christ is both King and Queen of the Hill. Christ is also Lord and Lady of the Valley.

Rev. Ken

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#16 Aug 17, 2012
MiddleWay wrote:
<quoted text>
Why are the romans different?...
.... because, for better or worse, the Roman Rite is more monastic, and stop blaming me for whomever is giving you those negative icons.

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#17 Aug 18, 2012
RevKen wrote:
<quoted text>LOL!!!....

Well, there is certainly a measure of truth to your statement above.

The Early Church was basically overrun by the Church of Rome. By AD 300 much of what had been the Early Church had already been lost and covered over.

But, Truth has a way of hanging around and eventually popping up again, much to the consternation of those who would try to control it and bend its message to suit their own biases.

Knowledge and information and comprehension and understanding are one side of the coin, while experience and wisdom are the other side. When the coin is buried in order to keep it from being spent, its value is hidden. When the coin is spent and continuously and repeatedly placed in circulation, everyone who handles it gets the benefit of its trading power.

In the latter part of the 20th Century and continuing into the present, the force and power of the constant exchange of our collective and burgeoning knowledge has compounded upon itself, ramping up and growing and accelerating in its magnitude.

The truth is rising out of the places where it had been deliberately hidden. It is an unstoppable phenomenon, obviously threatening to overturn taboo and superstition, hypocrisy and bigotry, and any retrograde tradition and orthodoxy wherever such has been used to control and repress the Holy Spirit.

Be thankful that this is happening. It is the true beginning of the Resurrection and Ascension of Christ. Only this time, it begins the movement of all of Humanity, whereas the first time was the example of just one man showing the Way.

Rev. Ken
I dunno.

Seems like more of the same ol', same ol' to me.

“Ecce! Sic transit gloria mundi”

Since: Oct 10

I See New Jerusalem From Here.

#18 Aug 18, 2012
Joe DeCaro wrote:
<quoted text>
If the Eary Church taught Christ's teachings the way TEC is now teaching them, there would be no Church.
If the church of today were preaching the very same message as Christ Jesus is reported to have taught then we would be in error for sure. He did promise that He would continue to teach us via the Holy Spirit until He returns as The Lord of Judgment Day.

Do you ever listen to the Gospels or is the hissing of the snake in the box calling so loudly that you can hear the words said to have been spoken by Christ Jesus?

“I see quantum effects”

Since: Jan 11

In the macro world.

#19 Aug 18, 2012
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
If the church of today were preaching the very same message as Christ Jesus is reported to have taught then we would be in error for sure. He did promise that He would continue to teach us via the Holy Spirit until He returns as The Lord of Judgment Day.
Do you ever listen to the Gospels or is the hissing of the snake in the box calling so loudly that you can hear the words said to have been spoken by Christ Jesus?
no

“... truth will out.”

Since: May 08

Stratford, Connecticut.

#20 Aug 18, 2012
T McCabe wrote:
<quoted text>
If the church of today were preaching the very same message as Christ Jesus is reported to have taught ...
... then that church couldn't be today's TEC.

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