Assemblies of God files lawsuit again...

Assemblies of God files lawsuit against congregation

There are 114 comments on the KYTV Springfield story from Feb 23, 2007, titled Assemblies of God files lawsuit against congregation. In it, KYTV Springfield reports that:

When Timbercreek Community Church was founded in 1999, hundreds of thousands of dollars were donated from other Assembly of God congregations.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at KYTV Springfield.

Frank

San Jose, CA

#61 Feb 19, 2008
I am not familiar with the situation in TX however, this is not the first, nor, do I fear, the last time that the AoG will take a local congregation to court because of land issues. I am a member of a congregation in California that was previously affiliated with AoG but we were "forced" into litigation due to the General Council's inflexibility and/or undesire to want to hear our side. They basically told the local board to seek legal assistance since the next time we would communicate would be in court. well, contrary, to Biblical Doctrine, and as a result of AoG urging to defend ourselves, we found ourselves in litigation. We put it all in God's Hands and went forward (All the time not wanting to be there). Well, the Judge ruled (Notice I did not say we WON) in our favor per the following: Since this was an existing "Non-Profit" Religious Corporation recognized by the State of California prior to affiliating with The Assemblies of God, and as a result of free will, the have the power to dis-affiliate from said organization per free will with no adverse affect to the former...So apparently whatever verbiage the AoG may be attempting to rest on to validate their actions it seems that they will not always have a judgment ruled in their favor! You see, it is ultimately about right and wrong. It is about HIM not you and I. Lord Bless you ALL!
Tiffany_serving

United States

#62 Mar 3, 2008
I am the Children's Pastor for Timbercreek and have been on staff for 2.5 years and have been a part of Timbercreek for 4.5 years. Below you will read the letter Paul Kirk sent to Tom Trask (former superintendent of the AG). A couple days later he was invited for lunch (had only received a water) and informed by the district that the church and himelf personally would be served with papers. So many have assumed the intent of Paul Kirk's heart...below you will get a small glimpse of his heart. I hope your heart will be changed and that you will begin to ask questions or continue to ask your questions.

Dear Brother Trask

I am writing this letter to express both my thanks for you and your ministry, and as an expression of the journey that I have been on over the past ten years. First of all thank you for your leadership and words of encouragement early in my ministry at Timbercreek. In addition, let me report that God continues to show himself faithful to Timbercreek, through salvation and the restoration of many relationships.

I also wanted to express my love for you and other leaders in the Assemblies of God including but not limited to Bill Leach, Steven Tourville, Doug Clay, Jack Moore and John Lindell. I am thankful for each man’s input into my life.

Having said this let me attempt to express the journey of faith and leadership that I have personally been engaged in. I have for sometime wrestled with a few of our statements of faith. Each year as the time approached for renewal of credentialing I have sought counsel from older pastors and leaders within the Assemblies. What I have found is a great divide, with many senior level leaders believing that these questions have already been answered, and younger leaders believing that they can be ignored. Please know that I am in agreement with most of what I am obligated to sign and until this year that have been enough.

Over the past several years I have been challenged to teach and lead Timbercreek in areas that have first challenged me and my traditions. I believe that these challenges are both biblical and sovereign of God, however as a third generation Assemblies of God member I have had to wrestle with some of the traditions and practices that had become quite comfortable to me. The surrender of such traditions started with programs and expanded to outreach, evangelism, discipleship and ultimately style of teaching that has lead to the increasing fruitfulness in our ministry.

One of the greatest reasons that I have delayed writing this letter is the issue of loyalty. This has been the most difficult decision that I have ever had to make, do I compromise integrity in order to preserve loyalty or, do I compromise loyalty to walk in integrity. Brother Trask, I wish that I was not left with this option. I believe that God has called me to pastor, and that I have and will faithfully continue to follow His call. However, at this time I believe that in order to walk in integrity and lead Timbercreek forward in God’s plan and vision for this community I must resign my credentials with the Assemblies of God.

Please know that you and the Assemblies will remain a major part of our prayer life. It is my desire to still partner with the Assemblies in missions and in fellowship where it is allowed and appropriate to you. Furthermore, if in the future you need anything I will be glad to serve you and the Assemblies where possible.

In closing, I am aware of much of the gossip that has been spread at headquarters and other areas of the faith community concerning Timbercreek and my pastoral leadership. Please know that this is with a very heavy heart that I write this letter and with hope that any questions that arise as a result of this letter will be asked directly and resolved in the love of Christ. May God richly bless you!

Paul Kirk
Pastor, Timbercreek Community Church
Plado

United States

#63 Mar 5, 2008
Let's assume for the sake of argument that Paul Kirk was in the wrong. I still do not see how a denomination can sue another group of Christians in direct violation of scripture. How can the AOG justify the action? It is simple. There is money and property at stake. The actions of such religious power brokers are the very reasons many people do not take the gospel seriously. What would have been the result if the AOG would have taken the hit financially? They would have lost property, but they would have gained the blessing of obedience and the respect of serious Bible-believing Christians. How can anyone follow such an organization that categorically rejects plain commands in scripture?
James Sundquist

Roseland, NJ

#64 Mar 14, 2008
The following lawsuit does not involve the AG, but the Christian and Missionary Alliance. Many people don't know that it was the AG that split off from the C&MA. But it was the C&MA that had the "reversion clause" in the first place. The AG simply put it in their constitution too.

DATE: MARCH 7, 2008
LOCATION: COLORADO SPRINGS, COLORADO, & OMAHA, NEBRASKA, U.S.A.

CONTACT: KEITH WONG, EMAIL: [email protected]

DISTRICT COURT OF EL PASO COUNTY, COLORADO: CASE # 08-CV971, DIVISION 3

SUBJECT: CHRISTIAN & MISSIONARY ALLIANCE NAMED IN CONSPIRACY LAWSUIT FILED: CONSPIRACY TO DEFRAUD CHINESE CHURCH OF $650,000 CHURCH PROPERTY

AND APPROXIMATELY $18,000 IN BANK ACCOUNTS

FOR ONE PAGE PAGE PRESS RELEASE:
http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/James/CMAChine...

For complete report and documentary:

http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/James/CMAChine...

COMMENTARY ON REVERSION CLAUSE IN THE CHRISTIAN & MISSIONARY ALLIANCE CONSTITUTION:

http://www.abrahamic-faith.com/James/Reversio...
Will

Columbia, MO

#65 Apr 16, 2008
Standing Strong wrote:
Former member staff turnover is not an issue and you know it I was a member of James River for years and staff over there was much higher than Timbercreeks. Also James River has a self appointed board but know one is call John Lindell Dictatorial, but of course he tows the party line.
In the last business meeting at James River Assembly, my wife and I voted for the board members.
the non comformer

Montréal, Canada

#66 May 10, 2008
The bad Pentacostal Assemblies of Canada was another church that was formed from breaking away from the bad CHRISTIAN & MISSIONARY ALLIANCE Church

I had attended the CHRISTIAN & MISSIONARY ALLIANCE Church in Canada for over 8 years, and not by a long shot can they be even considered a Christian Church.. thieves, liars, slanderers, home breakers yes..

http://groups.msn.com/CanadaToday6/stephenhar...

"Years ago I was a member of a Christian and Missionary Alliance Church in Santa Monica. The denomination closed us down, too. I guess they took whatever was in the bank account, even though the pastor was left without a job. They did not show any sympathy for our little church closing…so I can understand a little about how this Vietnamese church felt.” http://lightingtheway.blogspot.com/2008/05/ch...

CHRISTIAN & MISSIONARY ALLIANCE LEADERS DEFRAUD VIETNAMESE BOAT PEOPLE OF $90,000 BANK ACCOUNTPRESS RELEASE
DATE: MAY 1, 2008
LOCATION: LONG BEACH, CALIFORNIA, U.S.A.
CONTACT: DANIEL NGUYEN (Vietnamese Alliance Member),

EMAIL: mailto:[email protected]

“In another act of piracy, the Christian & Missionary Alliance collects more booty from Vietnamese Boat People Christians than it would have by ransacking them on the high seas. This hostile takeover is on the heels of a major lawsuit filed by a group of former members of the Chinese Alliance Church of Colorado Springs against the Christian and Missionary Alliance denomination. On March 24, 2008, the C&MA, once again in a gesture of unbridled greed, seized the $90,000 bank account of another C&MA church, the Vietnamese Alliance Church of Long Beach, California. Reminiscent of what the C&MA did to the Chinese Alliance church, members of the Vietnamese church discovered that the locks on their church were changed, too, effectively rendering members as trespassers on their own property. And in like manner to the Chinese Alliance Church, C&MA leaders declared the Vietnamese church meetings invalid, trashed and held in complete contempt the local church’s constitution and bylaws, abused their spiritual authority, vilified the victims, defamed the messengers, and engaged in extolling and covering up the extortioner’s deeds.“

the truth comes out eventually..
Sick of Christians

Omaha, NE

#67 May 11, 2008
Will wrote:
<quoted text>
In the last business meeting at James River Assembly, my wife and I voted for the board members.
Will, you may have voted for a board member but let me assure you they were already chosen before that vote ever took place. Some advise, you should be asking some questions of those you are sitting under.
A members sister

Victoria, TX

#68 Jun 21, 2008
I'm pretty sure that if you can't submit to authority, you should probably change denominations. We are not Assemblies of God but have worked closely with the Assemblies in our area. But our demonination encouraged where God placed us to minister and often called on us with encouragement. In our church we had represented 3 different pentecostal denomintions in our church and only GOD put it together and we benefited from all three denominations. Didn't Jesus say you know that they are my disciples by how you love one another?
Secondly, when did church stop being about the people? What percentage of Timber Creek are still going to church now, or want too? I personaly know members, my brother and sister in law and their family, and this was the first time that they trusted a minister since their youth pastors 17 yrs ago. So, now what kind of taste does this put in their mouth? If the concern is for the "mis-leading" of the Timber Creek congregation, then where is the leader now? The vans that used to pick up the kids are still parked in the same spot. Well you all got what you wanted but God is the true judge.
Curious

Springfield, MO

#69 Jun 25, 2008
Was the question about what kind of taste they have in their mouths rhetorical?
THENONCONFORMER

Charlotte, NC

#70 Jul 15, 2008
this is ridiculous

Middlefield, CT

#72 Sep 21, 2008
Ron Beaman wrote:
One of the hardest things for me to deal with in this entire episode is how much more concerned the district has been with the properties, et al, rather than care and concern for the people of the church or those the church has reached out to minister to. When the district officials state that they don't really care about the people of the church because they can fill it with a thousand other people, something is wrong.
I'm sure they love having your huge loan to pay every month. What an absurd statement!
just wait

Plymouth, IN

#73 Sep 22, 2008
Not only will they have to pay the loan they have had to pay huge legal fees and they are about to pay even more when the counter suits are entered. And now they are meeting trying to figure out why the AOG is losing ground, come on! You have leaders like Baker, Woods, Clay, and Plamer and you sue your own churches and you wonder why you are losing ground! What a joke.
Your invited to a Dinner

Harwood, MO

#74 Sep 22, 2008
this is ridiculous wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sure they love having your huge loan to pay every month. What an absurd statement!
They "Have" that huge loan because of their own choosing. No one forced them to take the property and assets from TC. They decided to do that on their own. As has been stated numerous times, the tithes of SOMO District churches are the funds being used to finance this litigation. The fact that they continue to pay out money to sue another church is the height of hypocrisy. But Tommy, Jon, and countless other local AG pastors dare not stand up for what is right. Why have none of them said anything regarding their districts handling of this? Because none of them have the stones to do it. It would jeopardize their standing with the good ole' boys club up on Boonville. Maybe instead of sending out "Dinner Invitations" as an attempt to raise money, the ELC should tell Baker and the neophytes he's surrounded by, to cough up some of the money their paying Textor and Hammer. Again I say, Whatever the choices made by Paul Kirk and TC were, it still does not change the view scripture takes on suing a fellow believer. That no one has bothered to correct them in this speaks volumes about the denomination as a whole.
Dinner Guest

Sanibel, FL

#75 Sep 22, 2008
Please check out below link for AG's beliefs on lawsuits, then judge for yourself.

http://www.ag.org/top/legal_matters/christian...
Already Eaten but Thanks

Harwood, MO

#76 Sep 23, 2008
So on one hand they say this:
"To Paul’s horror, the Corinthian church had sat on the sidelines and done nothing while the Christian community was scandalized by the airing of dirty linen between believers before a pagan court. Here was a church which prided itself on its wisdom (2 Corinthians 11:19) but who had not had anyone wise enough to judge a dispute. Paul chastised the plaintiff by telling him he would have been better to have suffered wrong rather than disgrace the church (1 Corinthians 6:1–7), chastised the defendant for having cheated and done wrong (6:8), and chastised the church for not taking care of the matter (6:2–6)."
This is where the argument should end, but of course like any group of men,they feel they know how best to interpret scripture.
"Paul never addressed the theme of whether a lawsuit would be appropriate once the church had declared a party to be a "pagan and a tax collector." Perhaps such would be permitted under the teaching of Romans 13:1–5 that the secular government exists to uphold justice, prevent lawlessness, and punish the wrongdoer."
The key word here is PERHAPS. That indicates that scripture isn't clear on this. So therefore what they believe is strictly conjecture. I end by asking a legitimate question. Based on the following paragraph: Who was the 3rd party that was brought in to mediate the dispute between the SOMO District and Timbercreek? Whom was chosen to fill this important role? Or was that part completely by-passed?
Following prayer and careful consideration, if the believer determines the matter should be pursued, then he or she should first seek a solution face-to-face with the offending party. Failing that, a third-party believer should be sought as a mediator. If a solution is still not present, the dispute should be brought to the church (i.e., the pastor, recognized board of elders or deacons, or perhaps the membership itself).
My guess is that all of these men have overlooked a very important lesson our Savior tried to teach us. Matthew 7:2
...For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
However either side tries to spin their roles in all of this it comes down to that simple fact. Love and forgiveness are the only choices when your true purpose is the advancement of God's kingdom.
logos

Elmhurst, NY

#77 Sep 23, 2008
Already Eaten but Thanks wrote:
So on one hand they say this:
"To Paul’s horror, the Corinthian church had sat on the sidelines and done nothing while the Christian community was scandalized by the airing of dirty linen between believers before a pagan court. Here was a church which prided itself on its wisdom (2 Corinthians 11:19) but who had not had anyone wise enough to judge a dispute. Paul chastised the plaintiff by telling him he would have been better to have suffered wrong rather than disgrace the church (1 Corinthians 6:1–7), chastised the defendant for having cheated and done wrong (6:8), and chastised the church for not taking care of the matter (6:2–6)."
This is where the argument should end, but of course like any group of men,they feel they know how best to interpret scripture.
"Paul never addressed the theme of whether a lawsuit would be appropriate once the church had declared a party to be a "pagan and a tax collector." Perhaps such would be permitted under the teaching of Romans 13:1–5 that the secular government exists to uphold justice, prevent lawlessness, and punish the wrongdoer."
The key word here is PERHAPS. That indicates that scripture isn't clear on this. So therefore what they believe is strictly conjecture. I end by asking a legitimate question. Based on the following paragraph: Who was the 3rd party that was brought in to mediate the dispute between the SOMO District and Timbercreek? Whom was chosen to fill this important role? Or was that part completely by-passed?
Following prayer and careful consideration, if the believer determines the matter should be pursued, then he or she should first seek a solution face-to-face with the offending party. Failing that, a third-party believer should be sought as a mediator. If a solution is still not present, the dispute should be brought to the church (i.e., the pastor, recognized board of elders or deacons, or perhaps the membership itself).
My guess is that all of these men have overlooked a very important lesson our Savior tried to teach us. Matthew 7:2
...For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.
However either side tries to spin their roles in all of this it comes down to that simple fact. Love and forgiveness are the only choices when your true purpose is the advancement of God's kingdom.
God bless you! Very well said.6327
Do they even read

Harwood, MO

#78 Sep 24, 2008
Dinner Guest wrote:
Please check out below link for AG's beliefs on lawsuits, then judge for yourself.
http://www.ag.org/top/legal_matters/christian...
"#2 If I bring action before a secular court, will such, in the context of American (rather than Corinthian) society, bring the church and the cause of Christ harm?"

I fail to see anything this situation has brought, But "Harm"

"#3 Am I totally honest with my claim (or defense), or am I seeking through deception to obtain (or avoid) an unjust compensation which is more (or less) than the injury suffered?"

If all the funds lent to TC were offered back as compensation then I don't see how pursuing this case is anything other than obtaining an unjust compensation.
JRAG

United States

#79 Sep 24, 2008
The full amount of initial funding 195,000.00 was offerred to John Lindell, the Southern Missouri District, Headquarters in an effort by Paul Kirk and TC to keep this out of the courts. All of the aboved stated parties refused to respond to the offer.
Post

New York, NY

#80 Oct 1, 2008
asdfasdfasdfasd
Can I play

United States

#81 Oct 1, 2008
hjklhjklhjklhj

Not bad for my first time huh Joe?

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