DISCRMINATION: Swartzentruber Amish D...

DISCRMINATION: Swartzentruber Amish Discriminated in Hopkinton, NY

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Swartzamish

United States

#1 Jan 1, 2009
HOPKINTON, NY- According to several members of the Swartzentruber Amish community in Nicholville the story about our documentary by North Country This Week titled Colton woman's documentary about North Country Amish and the discrimination at Greg and Molly's is accurate.

Jennie Niles was quoted stating:“I’m just surprised so many people find them annoying. They complain about horse dung. There’s a sign at a store in Hopkinton –‘No Horses Allowed.’ They’re preventing them from spending money in the store."

The Amish have stated to First Amendment that Mr. Caron never had a hitching post or a horse shed until after the article appeared in NC This Week. The Amish had asked for a hitching post or a horse shed for 4 years and Mr. Caron repeatedly denied their request. The Amish further stated that after the article appeared in the paper that Mr. Caron approached Joe Yoder and that Mr. Caron wanted a shed immediately. The Amish built the shed and delivered it to Greg and Molly's.

More:
http://swartzamish.blogspot.com/2008/12/discr...
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#2 Jan 1, 2009
The comments on your own site suggest there's another side to this story, eh?

http://swartzamish.blogspot.com/2008/12/discr ...

"Poor amish my A@@. The amish should be made to clean up their horse shit PEROID.... If they clean up after themselves this would not be an issue. There is absolutly no excuse this day in age they can't clean up after their animals no matter where it is."
OZZY

United States

#3 Jan 1, 2009
"Mr. Caron has told the Amish that they cannot wait inside his store while waiting for the publicly funded county bus. The Amish must wait outside regardless of weather conditions."

http://swartzamish.blogspot.com/2008/12/discr...

Comment:
"This takes me back to when I was a child visiting in the South in the 50's. My parent's had to explain to me what Whites Only and Blacks Only signs meant. When I saw the No Horses sign at Greg and Molly's in June I was so disgusted that I have not spent a dime there since. Boycott Greg and Molly's." - Colton resident

What I see is that Caron is receiving public money and discriminating against the Amish. That is illegal!
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#4 Jan 1, 2009
"Mr. Caron has told the Amish that they cannot wait inside his store "

So, is it his store,or not?
OZZY

United States

#5 Jan 1, 2009
easy wrote:
"Mr. Caron has told the Amish that they cannot wait inside his store "
So, is it his store,or not?
It is his store but NY Department of Transportation pays Caron to use the property for a "Permanent Bus Station."

Caron is supposed to provide shelter for patrons of the government funded bus.

Caron is accepting government money but violating the Civil Liberties of a minority because of their religious faith.

“Studly and Santaesque”

Since: Jan 09

Lancaster, PA

#6 Jan 1, 2009
Easy in Malvern: do you do anything about the exhaust that comes from the tailpipe of the vehicles you ride in?

Horse shit is FERTILIZER. The fumes that come out of your vehicle, on the other hand, cause cancer.

Cork it, Easy.
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#7 Jan 1, 2009
Look, if the Amish have been leaving "fertilizer" in the front of this guys store, then it's probably fair to assume that they're a part of the problem here.

I think it's also fair to say that, it's up to a judge to decide whether civil liberties have been violated. Taking punitive action against the store owner is delicate and tricky issue from the Amish perspective. Especially if they were a part of the problem in the first place.
(not saying that the situation doesn't need to be addressed)

But the Amish need the good will of the general public, getting into a pissing contest over some minute issue might not be in their best interests.
OZZY

United States

#8 Jan 2, 2009
Easy,

What about the issue that Caron refuses to let them wait inside the store for the Bus?

That is not a minute issue.
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#9 Jan 2, 2009
"What about the issue that Caron refuses to let them wait inside the store for the Bus?

That is not a minute issue."

From the non-Amish perspective, this unquestionably requires a response, but it's important to consider that the Amish may approach this with a different measuring stick.

The Amish could take the religious response here and turn the other cheek. If he doesn't want them in his store, then they shouldn't use his store. This is important on their part. If they look to our courts and laws to solve their problems, how can they argue that any of their exemptions are necessary? That would make them just like the rest of us, now wouldn't it?
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#10 Jan 2, 2009
Rushing off to court, is so, not like the Amish.

Do you get my drift?

There's a reason they don't participate more in our judicial system. It's because they believe that they should live out their faith. We have a responsibility to live up to our values. But it's not very respectful of their values to insist that the the only solution is one from our system.
OZZY

United States

#11 Jan 2, 2009
The Amish are not running to the courts. They had stopped using the store.

Another store had been making accomodations for them.

The issue is the Bus. The Amish had to use Greg and Molly's to access public transportation. There was no other alternative. That is their right.

Would you want to stand outside in -15F below zero weather to stand for a bus while English people who are waiting for the same Bus get to wait in a heated building? That is plain assinine behavior of Caron.

It is the English response that is surprising. The non-Amish are disgusted that Caron treats them the way that he does.

The Amish can expect to suffer as it is part of their faith. They do have Civil Rights and the have been violated.
OZZY

United States

#12 Jan 2, 2009
OZZY wrote:
Easy,
What about the issue that Caron refuses to let them wait inside the store for the Bus?
That is not a minute issue.
Where does it say that the Amish have ran to the court?
Reading it again

Schaumburg, IL

#13 Jan 4, 2009
"If they look to "our courts and laws" to solve their problems, how can they argue that any of their exemptions are necessary?"

Hey Easy, Last time I looked, it was their court system too. They are American citizens. Just in case you forgot.(again)
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#14 Jan 5, 2009
Yes, they are American citizens.

But, tell me, is running off and doing something "American", like filing a lawsuit, about as disrespectful of the Amish as you can get?

Sure, you're pretending it's, "for their benefit". But how about showing some real faith in their way of life and letting them sort this out momentarily?

How about it? Show some real respect instead of treating them like some invalid that needs your condescending self serving histrionics!
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#15 Jan 5, 2009
What the $%##$# on these comment threads don't realize is, if the Amish become too much like us, this is what happens

http://amishamerica.typepad.com/amish_america...

in the comments;

" I'm surprised to see them taking government assistance. I hate to be so krass here - but if they are going to take government assistance than they need to be filling out their draft slips at the post office.

I'm sorry - but I see a trend of hypocracy in this community by accepting government assistance. One great thing about the Amish is that they are totally self-reliant and are able to flourish autonomously which is one reason they can successfully avoid paying some taxes and signing up for the draft. The minute they have to rely on the government is the minute they loose some of those rights as far as I'm concerned."

(end quote)

You run around bringing your American solutions to their problems. But if, in the process of doing that, you breach their separate and apart status that currently governs their relationship with civil authority, you'll truly have unleashed a shit storm onto them!
Looks like you do Easy

Schaumburg, IL

#16 Jan 5, 2009
Don't hate.

Learn to love.

Let the people choose what they want to do.

But don't let them think of using the same system as the rest of Americans.

Right Easy?

You obviously need a bit of understanding yourself. How else will you ever see what you are spreading.

Love yourself Easy. Then maybe you can reach out to others.

Don't hate.
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#17 Jan 5, 2009
"Let the people choose what they want to do.

But don't let them think of using the same system as the rest of Americans.

Right Easy?"

Who's not letting them choose?

I'm suggesting that you can't have it both ways. If the boundaries between the Amish and us become too undistinguished we lose the Amish.

It's their integrity I'm arguing for!

If that makes me a hater, it sucks to be you!
easy

Philadelphia, PA

#18 Jan 5, 2009
Lyons, NY

You're probably a product of western culture? You and the people you care about are the beneficiaries of centuries worth of developed social capital.

Political, religious, educational, medical,.... you name it, in all these areas western culture has been advancing for hundreds of years.

There's one key ingredient that made it all possible, "CRITICAL THOUGHT".

What you think is me being "hateful" is just me bringing the barest minimum of critique to my people because I love them.

You sit on your mountain of wealth (western culture)like a spoiled brat and self righteously scorn me for trying to give to my people the barest modicum of benefit (critique) unaware of how privileged and pathetic you are!
Difficult

Philadelphia, PA

#19 Jan 5, 2009
Lyons, NY misses the point. Easy is not trying to stop the Amish from turning to western solutions. I think he is highlighting the consequences that everyone seems intent on ignoring.
The Amish have a unique relationship with society; minimal dependence on the government, and in exchange reduced contribution (social security, military, labor regulation, and other exceptions). Core to their acceptance is that they are self sufficient and only need a host country... not socialized support.
If the Amish turn to a governmental bail out, like so many wall street bankers, they will lose their status as a cherished, independent, and welcomed subculture.
This equation has two sides. If they start drawing benefits, they will be expected to pay in. If not, they will become charity cases; propped up by, and for the amusement of, western culture.
Difficult

Philadelphia, PA

#20 Jan 5, 2009
Oops... formating error above

Lyons, NY misses the point. Easy is not trying to stop the Amish from turning to western solutions. I think he is highlighting the consequences that everyone seems intent on ignoring.

The Amish have a unique relationship with society; minimal dependence on the government, and in exchange reduced contribution (social security, military, labor regulation, and other exceptions). Core to their acceptance is that they are self sufficient and only need a host country... not socialized support.

If the Amish turn to a governmental bail out, like so many wall street bankers, they will lose their status as a cherished, independent, and welcomed subculture.

This equation has two sides. If they start drawing benefits, they will be expected to pay in. If not, they will become charity cases; propped up by, and for the amusement of, western culture.

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