Southern Baptist Military Chaplains P...

Southern Baptist Military Chaplains Prohibited from Officiating or Attending Same-Sex Weddings

There are 135 comments on the WTVY Dothan story from Sep 6, 2013, titled Southern Baptist Military Chaplains Prohibited from Officiating or Attending Same-Sex Weddings. In it, WTVY Dothan reports that:

Southern Baptist Military Chaplains will not be allowed to perform, attend or support same-sex marriages even if the ceremonies are held away from military installations.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at WTVY Dothan.

The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#103 Oct 28, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
Matthew 1:16 And Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, of whom was born Jesus
Gods are not born from human parents.
Every miricle attributed to Jesus was also attributed to a prophet or judge in the Old Testament.
Christ became Incarnate and was born of Mary through the power of the Holy Spirit.

Certain prophets and judges prefigured Christ.

However, Moses asked for food. God sent mana daily.

Christ took loaves of bread and fish and multiplied them through His word. He spoke and an action occured.

Moses was given a staff and when he used the staff at the appropriate time, God worked through him to part the water.

Christ reversed physics, walked on water and He allowed Peter to walk on the water in accordance with his faith in Him.

The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#104 Oct 28, 2013
Which Old Testament prophets and judges raised people from the dead?

Which Old Testament prophet or judge resurrected after 3 Jewish days in the tomb?

Christ referred to Himself prefigured in Jonah - in the belly of the whale.

Which prophet or judge walked through locked doors after resurrection from the dead, appeared in the body to people - spoke and ate with people?

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#105 Oct 29, 2013
Numbers 23:19 God is not a man...

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHVH is our God, YHVH is the One and Only.(Artscroll translation)

Deuteronomy 6:4 Shema, Yisrael, YHVH Elokeinu, YHVH Echad.(Hebrew Transliteration)

Literally, the verse reads "Hear Israel YHVH Our God YHVH One."
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#106 Oct 29, 2013
Correct, the Word of God was not a man in Numbers 23:19 until He became Incarnate.

However, He always was, just as God always was, and the Holy Spirit always was.

"Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

Little odd, don't you think?

God referring to Himself as "us" and "our" in Genesis.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#107 Oct 29, 2013
The Real Deal wrote:
Correct, the Word of God was not a man in Numbers 23:19 until He became Incarnate.
However, He always was, just as God always was, and the Holy Spirit always was.
"Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."
Little odd, don't you think?
God referring to Himself as "us" and "our" in Genesis.
The Bible acknowledges that there are other Gods. However, it prohibits the children of Israel from worshiping any God but the God of the Bible, it is an abomination (the Hebrew word used is tow'evah and it always refers to the worship of foreign Gods). The Bible also prohibits the worship of false gods, like Jesus.

The children of Israel were told many times to never worship any God bu the God that they were taught to worship, in the manner they were taught to worship, by Moses in the Torah. Jesus was not born for more than a thousand years after the time of the Torah - no way for the children of Israel to have been taught to worship that man.
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#108 Oct 29, 2013
Yet, truth is they did convert by the thousands on the day of Pentecost. And then after.

Christ's Church was led by converted Jewish priests and pharisees.

The Bible doesn't actually acknowledge that there are other "Gods" - captial "G".

It acknowledges that there are gods, lowercase "g" in that they existed through the figments of various people's imagination.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#109 Oct 30, 2013
The Real Deal wrote:
Yet, truth is they did convert by the thousands on the day of Pentecost. And then after.
Christ's Church was led by converted Jewish priests and pharisees.
And then the Temple was destroyed and the Jews sent into exile. The God of the Bible does not like His people worshiping false gods.
The Real Deal wrote:
The Bible doesn't actually acknowledge that there are other "Gods" - captial "G".
It acknowledges that there are gods, lowercase "g" in that they existed through the figments of various people's imagination.
Joshua 24:2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other Gods.
...
24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the Gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the Gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

Judges 11:24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess?

Of course, you should read these in the full context of the passage. In context, there is nothing to say that these were just figments. Then too, consider the wording of the Ten Commandments, there are two SEPARATE commandments, one says to not worship false gods, and there is a SEPARATE commandment to worship YHVH before all other Gods. If all other Gods were mere figments, there would only have been the Nine Commandments...
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#110 Oct 31, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
And then the Temple was destroyed and the Jews sent into exile. The God of the Bible does not like His people worshiping false gods.
<quoted text>
Joshua 24:2 And Joshua said unto all the people, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Your fathers dwelt on the other side of the flood in old time, even Terah, the father of Abraham, and the father of Nachor: and they served other Gods.
...
24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the Gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the Gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
Judges 11:24 Wilt not thou possess that which Chemosh thy god giveth thee to possess?
Of course, you should read these in the full context of the passage. In context, there is nothing to say that these were just figments. Then too, consider the wording of the Ten Commandments, there are two SEPARATE commandments, one says to not worship false gods, and there is a SEPARATE commandment to worship YHVH before all other Gods. If all other Gods were mere figments, there would only have been the Nine Commandments...
LOL.

No. The High Priest didn't convert to Christianity. He stuck to his Roman Kings and had Saul go out and continue to persecute Christians.

He and his group illegally killed Steven - stoning him to death.

As Christ said, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!

How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.

'Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!'"

And He said,

"“Do you see all these things?” he asked.“Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”"

Again, there is no other god except God.

Capitalizing a god's name (Chemosh, Aten, Osiris, Athena, Zeus, Thor, etc) does not empower that figment with divinity. Nor can humans empower the fictious gods they choose to worship.

All those fictious gods are false.

There's only one God, in Three Persons. "

"Then God said, "Let Us make mankind in our image, in Our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the .... "

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#111 Oct 31, 2013
The Real Deal wrote:
<quoted text>
LOL.
No. The High Priest didn't convert to Christianity. He stuck to his Roman Kings and had Saul go out and continue to persecute Christians.
He and his group illegally killed Steven - stoning him to death.
Why do you think that it was illegal? The High Priest would have been the head of the Sanhedrin, which would have been the court to decide if a person was blaspheming and thus worthy of death by stoning. If he was preaching the "divinity of Jesus, then he would have been guilty.
The Real Deal wrote:
As Christ said, "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her!
How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.
'Behold, your house is being left to you desolate!'"
And He said,
"“Do you see all these things?” he asked.“Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”"
Failed prophecy, since there are stones still standing with one left on another - it used to be called the Wailing Wall...
The Real Deal wrote:
Again, there is no other god except God.
For the children of Israel.
The Real Deal wrote:
Capitalizing a god's name (Chemosh, Aten, Osiris, Athena, Zeus, Thor, etc) does not empower that figment with divinity. Nor can humans empower the fictious gods they choose to worship.
All those fictious gods are false.
I'll agree with you whole heartedly here. It is not the capitalization that makes a God a God, nor is it the mere imaginings of some people.

However, there is just as much hard evidence supporting Thor or Zeus as there is for the God of the Bible.
The Real Deal wrote:
There's only one God, in Three Persons. "
"Then God said, "Let Us make mankind in our image, in Our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the .... "
The Bible prohibits the children of Israel from worshiping any more than the ONE and SINGULAR God of the Bible.

Deuteronomy 6:4 Hear, O Israel: YHVH is our God, YHVH is the One and Only.(Artscroll)

However, the Hebrew word <'elohiym > is indeed a plural word for Gods. Genesis 1 is saying that the God of the Bible was part of the committee involved with creation. Note how it is very difference from the other creation myth in Genesis 2, where it speaks of the creation by YHVH.

I suspect that some of your confusion stems from the use of the term "Holy Spirit" in the OT. This is not referring to some second Deity, rather it is the term given to the inspiration and joy that fills a person when they operate in accordance with the commandments of the God of the Bible.
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#112 Nov 1, 2013
The Sanhedrin didn't have the right to exact capital punishment, it was removed from the Jews by the Romans. That's why Christ was sent to Pontius Pilate. The Sanhedrin had Him captured, but He had to be sentenced by a Roman figure head in order to be killed.

No, not a failed prophecy, the Temple Mount was destroyed, and the entire upper deck leveled. Specifically, the Holy of Holies. The veil split into two pieces the moment that Christ died. The Ark was gone. The Shekinah Glory gone. The gold Lampstand gone. The gold table for the Bread of the Presence, gone.

"Hard evidence" if you mean statues of Zeus. Momuments. Doesn't make either of them real.(Which I think you also agree with me about.)

"Part of the committee involved with creation?" Not a convincing way to explain God's use of the the words "we" and "our" in Genesis?

I'll go with Trinitarian Monotheism instead.:)

Good talking with you. I understand that we come from entirely different faith perspectives and hope we can continue. I understand Judaism from a Catholic perspective.

I've tried to develop an understanding of Judaism as a way to deepen my understanding of God.
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#113 Nov 1, 2013
Liam, are you a convert to Judaism - is your family Jewish?
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#114 Nov 1, 2013
http://www.myjewishlearning.com/life/Life_Eve...

Info on Roman rule over death penalty cases in Israel.
From Practice to Theory

It has to be appreciated, however, that practically all this material comes from a time when the right to impose the death penalty had been taken away from the Jewish courts by the Roman authorities. According to one report in the Talmud (Sanhedrin 41a) the power of the Jewish courts to the death penalty ceased around the year 30 BCE; according to another report (Sanhedrin 52b) it could only have been imposed while the Temple stood and must have come to an end not later than 70 CE when the Temple was destroyed.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#115 Nov 2, 2013
The Real Deal wrote:
Liam, are you a convert to Judaism - is your family Jewish?
Neither, although some of my best friends are Jewish...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#116 Nov 2, 2013
The Real Deal wrote:
The Sanhedrin didn't have the right to exact capital punishment, it was removed from the Jews by the Romans.
That may be what the Romans thought of the matter...
The Real Deal wrote:
That's why Christ was sent to Pontius Pilate. The Sanhedrin had Him captured, but He had to be sentenced by a Roman figure head in order to be killed.
He was sentenced by the Romans because his crime was against the Romans - trreason, by preaching that a Messiah was coming, one who would drive out the Romans and establish Israel as a kingdom again.
The Real Deal wrote:
No, not a failed prophecy, the Temple Mount was destroyed, and the entire upper deck leveled. Specifically, the Holy of Holies. The veil split into two pieces the moment that Christ died.
That is the xian myth, anyway. There is NO evidence that ANY of the events described in the various gospels actually occured.
The Real Deal wrote:
The Ark was gone. The Shekinah Glory gone. The gold Lampstand gone. The gold table for the Bread of the Presence, gone.
Yes, after a revolt, the Romans looted the Temple.
The Real Deal wrote:
"Hard evidence" if you mean statues of Zeus. Momuments. Doesn't make either of them real.(Which I think you also agree with me about.)
No, I am talking about real, objective evidence of the existence of the various Gods, including the God of the Bible. To date, ALL of the evidence has been subjective - "I believe, therefore this (book or whatever) is proof..."
The Real Deal wrote:
"Part of the committee involved with creation?" Not a convincing way to explain God's use of the the words "we" and "our" in Genesis?
I'll go with Trinitarian Monotheism instead.:)
No, it only works the other way. Once you understand that the Bible acknowledges the existence of many Gods, then it is obvious that that is what is meant by that word in Genesis.

And the Bible says that worshiping a human like Jesus as a god is an abomination...
The Real Deal wrote:
Good talking with you. I understand that we come from entirely different faith perspectives and hope we can continue. I understand Judaism from a Catholic perspective.
I've tried to develop an understanding of Judaism as a way to deepen my understanding of God.
Understanhding Judaism is the only way to understand the God of the Bible.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#117 Nov 2, 2013
The Real Deal wrote:
http://www.myjewishlearning.co m/life/Life_Events/Death_and_M ourning/About_Death_and_Mourni ng/Death_Penalty.shtml
Info on Roman rule over death penalty cases in Israel.
<quoted text>
And a different passage in the Talmud says that they COULD execute criminals.

Do remember that the Talmud was written down long after the time frame we are discussing here... like 2 or 3 centuries after. Even then, it is a compilation of the opinions of numerous Rabbis and may not always be historically correct.
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#118 Nov 4, 2013
No, Pilot couldn't find anything against Jesus and wanted him scrouged (to please the crowd) and released.

The Sanhedrin used their relationship with Caesar against Pilot, basically forcing his hand.

"In all four gospel accounts, Pilate avoids responsibility for the death of Jesus.

In the Gospel of Matthew, Pilate washes his hands to show that he was not responsible for the execution of Jesus and reluctantly sends him to his death.

The Gospel of Mark, depicting Jesus as innocent of plotting against the Roman Empire, portrays Pilate as reluctant to execute Jesus.

In the Gospel of Luke, Pilate not only agrees that Jesus did not conspire against Rome, but Herod Antipas, the Tetrarch of Galilee, also finds nothing treasonable in Jesus' actions.

In the Gospel of John, Pilate states “I find no guilt in him [Jesus]” and he asks the Jews if Jesus should be released from custody.]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#119 Nov 4, 2013
"That is the xian myth, anyway. There is NO evidence that ANY of the events described in the various gospels actually occured.

Yes, after a revolt, the Romans looted the Temple.

No, I am talking about real, objective evidence of the existence of the various Gods, including the God of the Bible. To date, ALL of the evidence has been subjective - "I believe, therefore this (book or whatever) is proof...""

The Ark and the Glory had disappeared long before the Second Temple period. The Holy of Holies was empty during the Second Temple period.

Uhm. No. There is enough evidence.

The Torah isn't one book and neither is the New Testament.

All contain various books from particular times in salvation history, written by various people to describe the saving power of God.

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#120 Nov 4, 2013
The Real Deal wrote:
"That is the xian myth, anyway. There is NO evidence that ANY of the events described in the various gospels actually occured.
Yes, after a revolt, the Romans looted the Temple.
No, I am talking about real, objective evidence of the existence of the various Gods, including the God of the Bible. To date, ALL of the evidence has been subjective - "I believe, therefore this (book or whatever) is proof...""
The Ark and the Glory had disappeared long before the Second Temple period. The Holy of Holies was empty during the Second Temple period.
Uhm. No. There is enough evidence.
The Torah isn't one book and neither is the New Testament.
All contain various books from particular times in salvation history, written by various people to describe the saving power of God.
But all those books are merely the opinions of their authors, they are not objective evidence. All that the existence of multiple books shows is that several people shared the same (or similar) belief systems. MAYBE they had similar subjective experiences, but there is nothing in the Bible (or any other holy book) that provides objective evidence. FYI- I am not an atheist, I just recognize that the experiences that I have had were subjective and another person may have interpreted them differently. After all, from the atheist's perspective ANYONE who claims a religious experience "must" be hallucinating...

“No Allah: know peace”

Since: Jun 07

A sacred grove in Tujunga, CA

#121 Nov 4, 2013
The Real Deal wrote:
No, Pilot couldn't find anything against Jesus and wanted him scrouged (to please the crowd) and released.
The Sanhedrin used their relationship with Caesar against Pilot, basically forcing his hand.
"In all four gospel accounts, Pilate avoids responsibility for the death of Jesus.
In the Gospel of Matthew, Pilate washes his hands to show that he was not responsible for the execution of Jesus and reluctantly sends him to his death.
The Gospel of Mark, depicting Jesus as innocent of plotting against the Roman Empire, portrays Pilate as reluctant to execute Jesus.
In the Gospel of Luke, Pilate not only agrees that Jesus did not conspire against Rome, but Herod Antipas, the Tetrarch of Galilee, also finds nothing treasonable in Jesus' actions.
In the Gospel of John, Pilate states “I find no guilt in him [Jesus]” and he asks the Jews if Jesus should be released from custody.]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontius_Pilate
And all of the gospels were written at a time when the proto-christians wanted to be on the good side of the Roman Empire...

The Romans were not in the habit of doing things merely to please subject nations. If there had been no Roman law involved, Pilate would have just tossed him back to the Sanhedrin.

Remember that little temper tantrum in the Temple with the money changers? That would have been enough for the Romans to consider him guilty of treason, especially since it took place around the Feast of the Passover. There were numerous wanna be prophets running around proclaiming the Apocalypse and the immanent arrival of the Messiah who would drive the foreign invaders out of the promised lands. If Jesus actually had any sizable following, that combined with the Temple temper tantrum would have been way more than enough for the Romans to crucify him.
The Real Deal

Grand Island, NE

#122 Nov 12, 2013
Liam R wrote:
<quoted text>
But all those books are merely the opinions of their authors, they are not objective evidence. All that the existence of multiple books shows is that several people shared the same (or similar) belief systems. MAYBE they had similar subjective experiences, but there is nothing in the Bible (or any other holy book) that provides objective evidence. FYI- I am not an atheist, I just recognize that the experiences that I have had were subjective and another person may have interpreted them differently. After all, from the atheist's perspective ANYONE who claims a religious experience "must" be hallucinating...
We today, have subjective experiences for the most part. The roots of my faith are 2,000 years old.

"...blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

The roots of yours are thousands older than that.

They saw and experienced God, first hand. Face to face. Or, in actions through the Temple.

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