Roman Catholic church only true churc...

Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

There are 699400 comments on the CBC News story from Jul 10, 2007, titled Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican. In it, CBC News reports that:

The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CBC News.

Steven

Los Angeles, CA

#96171 Apr 8, 2009
AnthonyMN wrote:
<quoted text>
Wrong. My view is that of the Church. The same view as the Church fathers. The same view as the apostles. The same view for 2000 years.
Your view of apostolic tradition and the Real Presence are contrary to all of Christendom for 1400 years after Pentecost. Sadly, your view is also only one of 33,000 denominations who claim the authority to privately interpret the bible.
1215 AD
Transubstantiation of the wafer and wine.

This says otherwise.
God vs Science

Chester, VA

#96172 Apr 8, 2009
Water baptism is the last God –ordained act standing between the lost and their salvation. Belief, repentance and confession precede baptism.

Mark 16:16

16Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Acts 2:38

38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:35-37

35Then Philip began with that very passage of Scripture and told him the good news about Jesus.

36As they traveled along the road, they came to some water and the eunuch said, "Look, here is water. Why shouldn't I be baptized?"

Peace!
Steven

Los Angeles, CA

#96173 Apr 8, 2009
The Roman Catholic Church is in error creating a dichotomy between two things that are not contrasted, and cannot be separated.

And then they attempt to use that false dichotomy to deny the doctrine of Sola Scriptura.

1st Corinthians 11:2

"Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you."


2nd Timothy 1:13
"Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me in faith and Love which is in Christ Jesus."


2nd Timothy 2:1-2
"Thou therefore, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus.
and the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also."


2 Tim. 3:14-17
"But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
and that from a child thou hast known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto Salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
that the man of God may be thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

There is simply nothing in these passages to support the idea of a separate oral tradition different from what Paul was writing to the Church. In order to deny Sola Scriptura, we must make the erroneous "assumption" that what Paul taught in the presence of many witnesses is different from what he wrote to entire Church.

Is such an idea founded in facts? The answer is no, of course not.

What Paul wrote to Timothy, the Corinthians, etc., was the inspired word of God explaining Old Testament mysteries in New Testament truths.

To use his traditions/ordinances as proof is more a rationalization of oral traditions today, not proof of it.

continued
AnthonyMN

Andover, MN

#96174 Apr 8, 2009
Steven wrote:
<quoted text>
1215 AD
Transubstantiation of the wafer and wine.
This says otherwise.
Pssst. Your ignorance is showing.

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96175 Apr 8, 2009
John from NJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, trying to talk to you is a waste of time, but if I want to waste it I will.
But I don't expect you to accept historical facts.
You don't believe what the Bible says, when you have your personal disagreements with it.
You don't even believe what TULIP teaches.
You are simply confused, lost and ignorant. And consider all three a merit badge.
aaah; the great escape. One minute it is a waste of time; the next you contradict yourself by responding. hmmmmm

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96176 Apr 8, 2009
AnthonyMN wrote:
<quoted text>
You have been challenged time after time to prove that you understand the differences between the Latin and Orthodox Churches. You have failed miserably. All that you know about the Church you have learned from those who are opposed to her. That has been proven over and over.
In your arrogance and ignorance you fail to see that your sad system is in fact a theological anarchy. You mock the hierarchy of the Church, yet everyone of you in your system is a pope. You have ordained yourself your own interpreter of scripture using your "magisterium" of assorted hate-site "bishops" and pastors to support your interpretation because you create yourself as the final authority. The reality (sadly Luther saw it coming) is that there are as many iterpretations as there are protestants who cling to private judgement. Everyone of you claims inspiration by the Holy Spirit and therefore the right to make judgement as to the meaning of every passage in the bible. You have admitted that you are free to jump from congregation to congregation based on YOUR understanding of scripture and YOUR authority to decide if the "head guy/gal" is teaching biblically. Lastly, the "dictatorship" you accuse us of is really a joke. Tell me, if you can, how many times in the last 500 hundred years has the pope spoken "ex cathedra" on a particular dogma? The sad reality is that you and your ilk do it every day.
Well; my comment was addressed to keltic because of his faulty analogy. But as for you; well the same ol' same ol'. I never claimed to interpret perfectly; the only one silly enough to do that is the pope. What I hold to is evangelical teaching; when a church deviates from it; then I have freedom to move on to a church that holds this doctrine that is Biblically grounded. Now you? infant baptism; praying to saints; mary as co-mediatrix; grace plus works......You're hurtin for certain. Time to surrender to the Lord and not an institution that has no Biblical basis for it's teachings. As for the comment about hate sites; if you "truly" want to examine the diff.'s from an unbiased site; then go to wikipedia and type in apostolic succession. God bless

“This little light of mine”

Since: Dec 08

I'm gonna let it shine

#96177 Apr 8, 2009
Simplicity that is Christ

2 Corin.11:3

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96178 Apr 8, 2009
keltec 9mm wrote:
<quoted text>
Yet Bruce's take on the origin of New Testament scripture is based on historical fact determined by his expertise concerning the history of the church and that fact is, men chose the books of the New Testament as well as the Old. Though inspired by God He did not leave us an index to make that determination , catholic churchmen confirmed or decided. Now as to whether FF Bruce chose catholicism or not is irrelevant since the particular sect he chose was again a matter of subjective interpretation. Did he choose yours?
"Baylor University professor Francis Beckwith was sitting on top of the evangelical Protestant intellectual world as president of the 4,100-member Evangelical Theological Society. But on April 29, he quietly, formally returned to the faith he grew up in – Catholicism."
Apparently Dr Beckwith, in contrast to FF Bruce, saw the church as the true church of holy scripture.
This isn't boxing with the "stick and move" approach. We're dealing with Biblical truth. You used "F.F. Bruce" as a person of "expertise" yet we both know he was a "evangelical" scholar. F.F. Bruce and I have the same beliefs; "evangelical". As for Beckwith; he grew up in the rcc and perhaps needed to reconcile his beliefs for the "comfort" of his loved ones that have passed on. "perhaps".
Dust Storm

Rochester, MN

#96179 Apr 8, 2009
AnthonyMN wrote:
<quoted text>
You have been challenged time after time to prove that you understand the differences between the Latin and Orthodox Churches. You have failed miserably. All that you know about the Church you have learned from those who are opposed to her. That has been proven over and over.
In your arrogance and ignorance you fail to see that your sad system is in fact a theological anarchy. You mock the hierarchy of the Church, yet everyone of you in your system is a pope. You have ordained yourself your own interpreter of scripture using your "magisterium" of assorted hate-site "bishops" and pastors to support your interpretation because you create yourself as the final authority. The reality (sadly Luther saw it coming) is that there are as many iterpretations as there are protestants who cling to private judgement. Everyone of you claims inspiration by the Holy Spirit and therefore the right to make judgement as to the meaning of every passage in the bible. You have admitted that you are free to jump from congregation to congregation based on YOUR understanding of scripture and YOUR authority to decide if the "head guy/gal" is teaching biblically. Lastly, the "dictatorship" you accuse us of is really a joke. Tell me, if you can, how many times in the last 500 hundred years has the pope spoken "ex cathedra" on a particular dogma? The sad reality is that you and your ilk do it every day.
Exactly..This is why I have continually said they are all self proclaimed teachers and authorities. However not all are called to teach nor to be in positions of self proclaimed authority. They babble nonsense. Well we have bishops but we dont have to listen to them if they dont agree with what I think the bible says. lol They rail against the Pope yet they have more authority than he does. They can change doctrines or dogma at a whim a Pope cannot. Truth for them is twisting in the wind lost. Satan twisted the bible too. They say they have all truth but know for sure so nobody can really teach a heresy unless of course you are Catholic. lol They say they use scripture alone but they dont because it disproves itself as it does the bible. Foundation of sand with interpretations as many as they number all authoriies. It really is pathetic and has no logic or reason at all. Not everyone heard the Apostles either. Some of the fundies in here would be protesting against them or saying, "Hey I like that verse I think I will use it." Woe ...Amazing but none of them would have stone the prophets. Consequently they convict themselves. Remember they werent really saved if they do something wrong. WOW

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96180 Apr 8, 2009
Steven wrote:
<quoted text>
What a joke, you cannot touch Sola Scriptura.
The truth is in God's Word, not in the words of Pontiff J., or Pastor Brown, or Church tradition #88, or in Tony Warren.
And if we don't read it in God's word, then it's not God's word.
In determining which word has the authority, let God be true, and every man a Liar.
In conclusion, let us therefore remember that scripture declares that if we build upon a foundation that is not the word of God, and will not hear God's word, then we build upon a foundation which will crumble when the winds blow and the rains come (Luke 6:47-49).
God likens us then to a foolish man. The wise in Christ will build upon God's word alone as foundation, the supreme authority.
A Church built upon Sola Scriptura is a Church built upon a firm foundation on the word of God, which will never fall.
The effects of the distinctives of the doctrine of Sola Scriptura should be seen in the church manifested as Worship, Evangelism, Obedience, Witnessing, and a Godly lifestyle.
As faithful Christians we cannot place our trust or confidence in men who are puffed up in their own delusions of infallibility.
Rather we must stand with the divinely inspired word of God, the authority that teaches us what to think of men. Even as the Apostle Paul cautioned.
1st Corinthians 4:6
"And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."
Rather than agree with the magisterium of Catholicism, we agree with the Apostle Paul and learn from him not to think of men above that which is written. Again, this is the faithful going back to the scriptures as the "authoritative" rule of faith. And can we do anything less than preach the same truths of the authority of the word that they did?
2nd Timothy 4:2
"Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine."
May the Lord who is Gracious and merciful above all, give us the wisdom and understanding to come to the truth of His most Holy Word.
www.mountainretreatorg.net
All Glory, Praise, Worship and Prayer
to God alone!
Confession:
"I have never, ever prayed to anyone other than, The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit.
Well said. Praise God!

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96181 Apr 8, 2009
Steven wrote:
Sola Scriptura is biblical.
Psalms 12:6-7
"The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
==========
Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever."
==========
and also Proverbs 30:5. God bless brother.

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96182 Apr 8, 2009
Steven wrote:
<quoted text>
William Webster explains it best when speaking of these Irenaeus quotes:
“Irenaeus proposes here a hypothetical situation. The Churches have received the tradition of the truth from the apostles. What, he asks, if they had not left us any writings? Then it would be necessary to follow the teaching, the tradition, of those Churches which have had direct contact with the apostles. The operative phrase here is,“what if the apostles had not left us their writings.” But in point of fact they have left us their writings. And the point he makes is that while the Church does preach and teach orally, the doctrinal content of that preaching and teaching is directly verifiable from the written Scriptures. Irenaeus is not affirming the existence of oral tradition. He is simply presenting a hypothetical situation as a way of combating the Gnostic heretics.”(Holy Scripture: The Ground and Pillar of Our Faith Vol. II, pg 25)
Exactly.

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96183 Apr 8, 2009
keltec 9mm wrote:
<quoted text>
If I wanted your opinion, I would have given it to you.
and you haven't? lol
Dust Storm

Rochester, MN

#96184 Apr 8, 2009
ALL FOR THE LOVE OF wrote:
Simplicity that is Christ
2 Corin.11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Yep the devil is real and he lives in you.(Matthew 12:22; I Peter 5:8); It seems you do not hear God and prefer lies, self-rithteousness and bad pshychology. Look here you are in the Bible. John 8:44-47), Are there deceivers? Yes you are are a self proclaimed minister of righteousness.(II Corinthians 11:13-15). Ah simplicity indeed even someone with your limited intellect should be able to understand but I wont count on it. You wont be flying away but but your arrogance and self-righteousness might weigh you down to the depths of hell. I feel sorry for you I really do as there really is no hope for someone like you who makes it a personal project to live in a fantasy world and so utterly clueless. It truly astonishes me how people like you cannot see how foolish you are and you lie so easily you can no longer see the ravenous wolf within you. God has truly blinded you. Pray for understanding because I will not go over things again. Either you have alzheimers, you are thick or blinded by God and a tool of satan, but please do not pray for me to your demons. Pray to God and ask that he open your eyes. You are spritually sick and once again sorry but you will not be flying away before everyone else self-righteous one and you are not in soul sleep another heresy. Simplicity is not a good phrase to use for someon who is part of 250 different Baptist groups with the truth. Seek the Church Christ founded instead of railing blindly against things you do not understand nor are you an authority.

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96185 Apr 8, 2009
AnthonyMN wrote:
<quoted text>
Pssst. Your ignorance is showing.
Prove him/steven wrong. This was his comment:
Steven wrote:
<quoted text>
1215 AD
Transubstantiation of the wafer and wine.
This says otherwise.
Dust Storm

Rochester, MN

#96186 Apr 8, 2009
Justified 7 wrote:
<quoted text>Exactly.
Yes you were there then idiot? Right. Exactly wrong! Ireneaus believed very much in the Church and had no inkling of your your make believe anything goes Christianity where everybody has the truth. Oh the conundrum...I know cut the bible in half and the real truth will step foreward. Oops you already did that and are disecting it into nanobites of hereticology from your sites. Satan thrives on confusion.

“Free gift means FREE”

Since: Jan 09

Chicagoland

#96187 Apr 8, 2009
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you were there then idiot? Right. Exactly wrong! Ireneaus believed very much in the Church and had no inkling of your your make believe anything goes Christianity where everybody has the truth. Oh the conundrum...I know cut the bible in half and the real truth will step foreward. Oops you already did that and are disecting it into nanobites of hereticology from your sites. Satan thrives on confusion.
boo hoo; you want a tissue tito? Stop relying on emotionalism. Have a wonderful evening tito.
Steven

Los Angeles, CA

#96188 Apr 8, 2009
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes you were there then idiot? Right. Exactly wrong! Ireneaus believed very much in the Church and had no inkling of your your make believe anything goes Christianity where everybody has the truth. Oh the conundrum...I know cut the bible in half and the real truth will step foreward. Oops you already did that and are disecting it into nanobites of hereticology from your sites. Satan thrives on confusion.
Iraeneus put the Word of God before the church, unlike yourself.
Dust Storm

Rochester, MN

#96189 Apr 8, 2009
StarC wrote:
StarC wrote:
<quoted text>
"LIE!
What do you know??? Nothing about our faith, only what you read in anti-Catholics sites.
When the Protestants bow to the queen of England are they idol worshiping??? "
<quoted text>
Nice of you to cut my real defense… My original post to you here. http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/TV910R5...
And, the Saints are NOT dead, they are ALIVE IN CHRIST.
WE ARE ALIVE IN CHRIST![20-28] After a triumphant assertion of the reality of Christ's resurrection (1 Cor 15:20a), Paul explains its positive implications and consequences. As a soteriological event of both human (1 Cor 15:20-23) and cosmic (1 Cor 15:24-28) dimensions,
JESUS’ RESURRECTON LOGICALLY AND NECESSARILY INVOLVES OURS AS WELL.
1 COR 21-23
“21
For since death came through a human being, the resurrection of the dead came also through a human being.
22
For just as in Adam all die, so too in Christ shall all be brought to life,
23
BUT EACH ON IN PROPER ORDER: CHRIST THE FIRSTFRUITS; then, at his coming,” those who belong to Christ;
24
then comes the end, 10 when he hands over the kingdom to his God and Father, when he has destroyed every sovereignty and every authority and power.
25
For he must reign until he has put all HIS ENEMIES under his feet."
Those that believe like you, BRAZIL ARE DEAD, tho. Waiting in the ground for the rapture??? A made up concept in the 19th century.(LOL)
Your wrote
“But that aside you DAFT wowmen it was the first Christians of the first second and thrid centuries who refused to bow before CEASAR or his representative that erraned them them the right to die via lions.
OR did this FACT escape you???”
From my original post. I wrote to you.”FOR THE FIFTEENTH MILLION TIME…
Catholics DO NOT worship Mary, the Mother of Christ – as though she were a deity. Of all the misconceptions about Catholic belief and practice, this one is the most absurd. Catholics are just as aware as Protestants that Mary was a human creature, and therefore not entitled to the honors which are reserved to God alone. What many non-Catholics mistake for a very profound love and veneration, nothing more.
FYI, the first Christian were put to death, because they were Christians. Period!
BTW… You are still trying to promote your man made church… it’s not working ......
In Brazil-----
Encarta new numbers are 90% are Catholic, so the numbers have increased.
http://encarta.msn.com/encyclopedia_761554342...
LOL a protestant Lie?? No WAY! Your Joking! It isnt so! Cant happen..Geesh..They zero in a single thing and try to dice it into something different forgetting all the lies in the process and yes use portions of truth you give them later on twisted into there dilemma of ever changing theology. Brazil is only interested in things that are not true as is All for untruth, Unjustified7, DeafCon etc. I mean seriously they cant remember what they say or believe because they are too busy changing it to try to hold up the fragile walls in the shifting sand. The Bigger point they cant see or dont want to. Numerous times heresies of old were brought up in here. In the quest to diminish Mary to nothing rather than like the bible says she shall be called blessed some seek to redefine the Trinity. Sad.
Steven

Los Angeles, CA

#96190 Apr 8, 2009
Catholics contend that the early church did not practice Sola Scriptura.

I believe it is often the case that a Roman Catholic apologist who looks back into Church history brings with him his preconceived notions, rather than letting the Fathers speak for themselves.

THey attempt to establish his point with the mere mention of words, as though people like Irenaeus and Athanasius had Rome in mind when saying the words "catholic" and "tradition".

This is largely because the Roman Catholic is reliant upon the words of the Fathers in order to create a case for their antiquity. So they bring their burden, misconstrue the words of our brethren who have gone before us, and they stake a claim on the words of fallible men.

continued

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