Roman Catholic church only true church, says Vatican

Full story: CBC News 545,118
The VaticanA issued a document Tuesday restatingA its belief that the Roman Catholic Church is the only true church of Jesus Christ. Full Story
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#407486 Dec 7, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="Anthony MN"
How many protestant pastors do you know that would give up sex in order to completely dedicate their lives to God?
**********
Now let me get this straight:
God gave mankind the gift of sex, and commanded them to multiply.
God calls the children of such union, HIS children. There must be children to replenish God's earth...and make up the Body of Christ...
But:
Man must give up sex to dedicate his life to God???
It does not compute.
KayMarie
Now would be a good time for you to study Matt. 19:11-12, Matt. 19:29, 1 Cor 7:1, 1 Cor. 7:7, 1 Cor. 7:27, 1 Cor. 7:32-33, 38, Isaiah 56:3-7, Jer. 16:1-4.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#407487 Dec 7, 2012
Michael wrote:
<quoted text>
....The catholic church put the poor butler on trial and threw him in jail, but when it comes to their own leaders who have committed terrible crimes, the arrogant church tries to blame everyone else but themselve. There is no personal accountability for anything in the church.
Catholics say NOTHING! Shame on them!
UNBELIEVABLE!
You Michael--"consistently " say NOTHING that is not either exaggerated, distorted and blown out of proportion!! You must have so much "obsessed vengeance" and hatred for the Catholic Church that you probably "lay awake at night" PLOTTING your next (evil attack) against Jesus Christ and His One True Catholic Church----
UNBELIEVABLE----and "DOUBLE" BUSTED!!!!
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#407488 Dec 7, 2012
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>Daily Mass, the Eucharist, the biblical readings, the Sacraments and the Adoration Prayer Chapel....JETHRO:this is all man made B.S. if the history i posted is wrong prove it,instead of just throwing insults and garbage around,prove that the crimes i spoke of are untrue,i know for a fact you can't do that,because if you could,you would of by now,but you just utter the same old thing post after post,and none of it contains any real historical facts. prove they didn't torture people into joining the church,prove the church of antioch was not taken by force,prove the crusades are a myth,prove they never touched a child,prove they never laundered money for the mafia,and commited bank fraud,prove they had the devine right to change gods commandments,prove it's ok to worship idols/saints. ball is your side of the court now. show some true factual history that proves everything i posted is wrong....good luck.
Like I said before, "I do not care "one-iota" as to what you believe! Go live your life in your same old (day by day)"doldrums" of anti-catholic lies and heresy. I'll stick to the TRUTH of faith and Salvation in Jesus Christ and His One True Apostolic Catholic Church. I know that it just "bugs" you that ALL of us, as Catholics on this forum, are living out our TRUE FAITH that Christ taught, proclaimed and ministered to His apostles, disciples and followers throughout over 2000 years of Church History, worshipping in HIS One True Catholic Church-----however it "your own misery and hate" that you have to deal with--NOT OURS or the other 1.168 Billion Catholics around the world. The ONLY thing that we can, and are (called to do-as Christians) is to pray for you!!!!
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#407489 Dec 7, 2012
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>don't you feel guilty at all about lying? "Our Lords Catholic Church",show me a passage from any book that says jesus is catholic.i've never met a jew that is catholic, have you? or anyone here? has anyone here met a jewish catholic?? or better yet, followed catholic traditions?
Not worth responding to!!!
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#407490 Dec 7, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>So did the RCC teach error for the first 1000 yrs? Which is biblical? It can not be both ways? Did the RCC screw up then or now?
I'm afraid you're really confused about the whole thing. It is a discipline, not a dogmatic teaching. The Church could decide next week that all priests can get married and it wouldn't be "wrong". It comes down to the issue of men and women who willingly sacrifice personal pleasure "for the kingdom of heaven."

Is personal sacrifice that unknown in protestant circles? I'm beginning to wonder.
hojo

Minneapolis, MN

#407491 Dec 7, 2012
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>you can deny it till hell (the church) freezes over,but the people know the truth,
Yes---and the other 1.168 Billion Catholics around the world, including myself, Clay, Regina, Anthony and others on this forum ALSO KNOW THE TRUTH, over 2000 years of PROVEN historical and biblical TRUTH of Jesus Christ and His One True Apostolic Catholic Church--the Bride of Christ.-------You deny it!!(your choice)----
By-the-way-----Jethro8-----I hope that you are recovering and feeling better! Blessings!!!
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#407492 Dec 7, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus (and St. Paul) praised a celibate priesthood and religious life. He says it's a gift from God. It is without question biblical.
Your continuous criticism of this practice tells me you have a deep-seated animosity towards the Catholic faith and you probably have resentment and/or jealousy of men and women who are willing to forego sexual intimacy in their dedication to the kingdom.
And your continued cheap shots at the abuse of minors by a small percentage of sick and disturbed men who should never have been priests tells me you have no other argument than to dig into the gutter for ammunition. That's a very unchristian thing to do.
The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:

has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;
has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;
has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse;
has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests;
has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they will be heard";
has conducted annual audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the groundbreaking 2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts, child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine claims of abuse against priests.
No other organization even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/1...

cont.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#407493 Dec 7, 2012
Notwithstanding the media hysteria over sex abuse in the Catholic Church, priests abuse at a rate far lower than that of other males. While even one case of abuse is too many, approximately only 4% of all active priests between 1950 and 2002 were even accused of abuse – a rate far lower than that of other males in the general population.

"[B]ased on the surveys and studies conducted by different denominations over the past 30 years, experts who study child abuse say they see little reason to conclude that sexual abuse is mostly a Catholic issue.'We don't see the Catholic Church as a hotbed of this or a place that has a bigger problem than anyone else,' said Ernie Allen, president of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children …

"Experts disagree on the rate of sexual abuse among the general American male population, but Allen says a conservative estimate is one in 10. Margaret Leland Smith, a researcher at the John Jay College of Criminal Justice, says her review of the numbers indicates it’s closer to one in 5 …

"Since the mid-1980s, insurance companies have offered sexual misconduct coverage as a rider on liability insurance, and their own studies indicate that Catholic churches are not higher risk than other congregations … It's been that way for decades."

Newsweek magazine, April 7, 2010
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#407494 Dec 7, 2012
USA Today, June 6, 2010:

"If anyone believes that priests offend at a higher rate than teachers or non-celibate clergy, then they should produce the evidence on which they are basing that conclusion. I know of none. Saying 'everybody knows' does not constitute scientific methodology."
– Dr. Philip Jenkins, Pennsylvania State University.

From the 1950s through the 1970s, the Catholic Church, following the then-prevailing societal practice, sent suspected abusers to psychologists rather than calling the police.

In this respect, the Church was far from alone. When the Church was sending accused priests to psychological treatment, "the criminal justice system was doing the very same thing with convicted offenders – sending them to treatment instead of prison."

"From the 1950's to the 1980's, these treatment-based interventions for sexual criminals were not only enormously prevalent in the United States, but surveys of ordinary citizens showed that they were enormously popular …

"[T]he science of human sexuality and sexual offending is extraordinarily young. Virtually all of the information we utilize today regarding the treatment and supervision of sexual offenders has been discovered since 1985."
– Dr. Monica Applewhite, Ph.D.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#407495 Dec 7, 2012
Yet in almost every media account, the media has failed to provide this important historical context that the Church was following the then-reigning advice of experts to send accused priests to treatment.

"No one would hold a brain surgeon to today's standard of care for professional decisions he made in 1970. Yet the decisions made in 1970 by Catholic bishops, who routinely consulted with mental health professionals about sick priests, are being judged by today's standards. Today, the confidence of the mental health community about the likelihood of curing sexual disorders is far less than it was in 1970."
– L. Martin Nussbaum, "Changing the Rules" (America magazine, 2006)

Tragically, sending accused priests to treatment rather than reporting them to the police only resulted in a high rate of recidivism among those priests. According to the 2004 John Jay College report, 149 priests were "serial abusers" (10+ victims) and accounted for an alarming 26% of all of the abuse between 1950 and 2002.

Yet these 149 men represent only one-tenth of one percent of all priests who served in the Catholic Church in the United States between 1950 and 2002. Most accused priests (56%) have been the subject of only one allegation.

The Center for Applied Research in the Apostolate (CARA), the independent research organization out of Georgetown University, has been tracking abuse data regarding United States Catholic clergy for several years. CARA issues annual reports through the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB).
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#407496 Dec 7, 2012
confrinting with the word wrote:
who="ReginaM"
Different in that you started out claiming that priestly celibacy is responsible for pedophilia. Anthony correctly pointed out that the majority of abuse cases involved homosexuals and post-pubescent males. We both reminded you that Christ said that those who can bear celibacy should and the called deliberately embrace celibacy for the Kingdom of God. So....you changed your tune and are now claiming that those called to the priesthood and religious life are ignorant and don't have any idea as to what they're sacrificing. I can assure you that these men and women don't live in a vacuum prior to entering the seminary, convent, or monastery. They're fully aware of what they're doing and freely choose to devote their lives to serving God. Sex is not the be all and end all, marriage is not the only vocation in life.
**********
I did not change anything. What are homosexuals and post-pubescent males doing in the priestly ranks? Marriage is not only God's 'invention'; it is the means for building God's church.
You can't tell me that a teenage boy OR girl (not sexually 'savvy') knows what they are giving up. They go into ministry because they desire that high calling. They cannot understand what they are giving up, because they've never 'had' what they are supposedly giving.
KayMarie
Priests and women religious go through a discernment process that takes up to eight years. Most are in their late 20's and early 30's before they take their vows. Almost all of the priests I've known dated women during their high school and college years. They know what they're giving up.

I'm getting a sense from you folks that you are incredulous that there are actually people out there who will give up sex in order to dedicate their lives in service Christ and His Church and prefer not to have the distractions of a spouse and children.

Do you resent people with such strong conviction?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#407497 Dec 7, 2012
jethro8 wrote:
<quoted text>thanks for your concern LT,i'm ok,the problem is i'm burnt out,my job is physical and the chemo drugs are burning me out,i'll be leaving work for awhile under protest,but dr. insists i take time off regroup get tests done plus an mri and see what's going on,i'm on a 12,000 calorie diet a day and i'm not putting any weight on,and i failed a stress test,meaning lifting weights and so forth,i use to be able to bench press 225 lbs 20 times dead lift 400 lbs,i'm down to 10 times each then i get extremely tired,i have no signs of cancer, and that is the puzzling part.it could be the chemo drug that is doing this to me.
Jethro I wish tyhe best for you.You are in Seraphima and my thoughts and prayers.
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#407498 Dec 7, 2012
According to CARA, here are the numbers of accusations involving a current minor that were even deemed "credible" each year from 2005 to 2011:
Year /# of accusations

2011 7
2010 8
2009 6
2008 10
2007 4
2006 14
2005 9

Meanwhile, according to government numbers, in 2010 alone, there were some 63,527 reported cases of child sexual abuse in the United States – an alarming societal problem that has received scant media attention.

A 2004 U.S. Department of Education report reported that "the most accurate data available" reveals that "nearly 9.6 percent of [public school] students are targets of educator sexual misconduct sometime during their school career."

This result prompted Hofstra University's Dr. Charol Shakeshaft, the author of the study, to opine in 2006, "[T]hink the Catholic Church has a problem? The physical sexual abuse of students in schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

“" THE WORD WAS MADE FLESH!"”

Since: Jun 10

"ISA 55:11--"MATT 10:27"

#407499 Dec 7, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Now would be a good time for you to study Matt. 19:11-12, Matt. 19:29, 1 Cor 7:1, 1 Cor. 7:7, 1 Cor. 7:27, 1 Cor. 7:32-33, 38, Isaiah 56:3-7, Jer. 16:1-4.
~~~
I have pasted the above scriptures here...

You left out a KEY VERSE in your attempting to make your point...

NOTE
verse

1Co 7:6 But I speak this by ==>permission,<=== and

not of===>commandment. <===

PERMISSION DEFINED IN GREEK AS USED IN 1 COR 7:6

G4774
&#963;&#965;&#947; &#947;&#957;&#969; &#769;&#956;&#951;
suggno&#772;me&#772;
soong-gno'-may
From a compound of G4862 and G1097; fellow knowledge, that is, concession:- permission.

COMMANDMENT DEFINED IN GREEK AS USED IN 1COR 7:6

G2003
&#949;&#787;&#960; &#953;&#964;&#945; &#947;&#951;&#769;
epitage&#772;
ep-ee-tag-ay'
From G2004; an injunction or decree; by implication authoritativeness:- authority, commandment.

ALL YOUR SCRIPTURES THAT YOU HAVE GIVEN 1COR CHAPTER 7... ARE PREDICATED UPON ==>PERMISSION AND NOT BY COMMANDMENT,<===

WHICH MEANS THE APOSTLE PAUL HERE....

WAS GIVING HIS PERSONAL OPINION.

1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.

1Co 7:7 For I would that all men were even as I myself. But every man hath his proper gift of God, one after this manner, and another after that.

1Co 7:38 So then he that giveth her in marriage doeth well; but he that giveth her not in marriage doeth better.

1Co 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

1Co 7:32 But I would have you without carefulness. He that is unmarried careth for the things that belong to the Lord, how he may please the Lord:

1Co 7:33 But he that is married careth for the things that are of the world, how he may please his wife.

THESE SCRIPTURES BELOW ..YOU HAVE TAKEN OUT OF THEIR CONTEXT

THEY DO NOT APPLY

Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.

Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

Jer 16:1 The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying,

Jer 16:2 Thou shalt not take thee a wife, neither shalt thou have sons or daughters in this place.

Jer 16:3 For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them, and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;

Jer 16:4 They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth: and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcases shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.

IN CONCLUSION YOU ...

DON'T HAVE ANY COMMANDMENT

FROM GOD THAT A PRIEST SHOULD NOT MARRY...BE CELIBATE.

---
Dust Storm

Pennock, MN

#407500 Dec 7, 2012
A Meanwhile, that same 2004 report cited an important study from the mid-1990s:
"In an early [1994] study of 225 cases of educator sexual abuse in New York, all of the accused had admitted to sexual abuse of a student but none of the abusers was reported to authorities."

That is an important and alarming fact:

Number of abusive educators: 225
Number reported to police: 0

So, in other words, as recently as 1994, it was the universal practice in New York among school administrators not to call police to report abusers.

The 1994 study also reported that only 1 percent of those abusive educators lost their license. In addition, most alarmingly, "25 percent received no consequence or were reprimanded informally and off-the-record. Nearly 39 percent chose to leave the district, most with positive recommendations or even retirement packages intact."

http://www.themediareport.com/fast-facts/
Anthony MN

Minneapolis, MN

#407501 Dec 7, 2012
4GVN wrote:
<quoted text>If they are accepable for the priesthood as married (converts) why would they not be equally acceptable as married(non-converts)?
We do have some (very few) non-convert married priests, I even know a widower priest with children and grandchildren. It's not an absolute. You seem to be unable to grasp the concept of men and women who VOLUNTARILY choose this path. Are you envious of people who can willingly do this?

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#407502 Dec 7, 2012
_BobLoblah_ wrote:
<quoted text>08Dec12.....
......Naw.
You are the LIAR hereIN and so envious and jealous of the Roman Catholic Church that you jest cannot handle anything good that people say about it.
Ps:....Your problem is dat you got buggered early on in life and that you are 'sore' dat you don't have a cock to use.
Have a nice day.
.....Get lost. Phuck Off.
Forever and Ever
BobLoblah
I hope I am not being too forward but I must say that I am greatly impressed by your elegant posts. I am an executive at hallmark cards. We would like you to come in for a job with us.
Sincerely
U B Profane

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#407503 Dec 7, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
USA Today, June 6, 2010:
"If anyone believes that priests offend at a higher rate than teachers or non-celibate clergy, then they should produce the evidence on which they are basing that conclusion. I know of none. Saying 'everybody knows' does not constitute scientific methodology."
– Dr. Philip Jenkins, Pennsylvania State University.
From the 1950s through the 1970s, the Catholic Church, following the then-prevailing societal practice, sent suspected abusers to psychologists rather than calling the police.
In this respect, the Church was far from alone. When the Church was sending accused priests to psychological treatment, "the criminal justice system was doing the very same thing with convicted offenders – sending them to treatment instead of prison."
"From the 1950's to the 1980's, these treatment-based interventions for sexual criminals were not only enormously prevalent in the United States, but surveys of ordinary citizens showed that they were enormously popular …
"[T]he science of human sexuality and sexual offending is extraordinarily young. Virtually all of the information we utilize today regarding the treatment and supervision of sexual offenders has been discovered since 1985."
– Dr. Monica Applewhite, Ph.D.
I got into working with sex offenders in the 80's. Yopu are correct.The state of treatment was horribly misguided and off track. Offenders were either taken at their word that they would stop or sent into psychotherapy. Psychotherapy is and remains totally ineffective with sex offenders. We had to fight with a very well known psychiatric institute to try to start sex offender treatment at our institution.They said standard treatment would be sufficient. We traveled to Massachusettes to talk to a man named Nick Groth, who was a pioneer in sopecialized sex offender treatment in those days. From there to see Fay Honey Knopp etc and we started a program.For adolescents. Specialized sex offender treatment can be effective.
My point is the Church did what others were doing during that time frame.

What is most important is what they are doing in the present. Hopefully they are using the top of the line treatment. Hopefully the culture of denial where it existed is being corrected.

Since: Dec 11

Location hidden

#407504 Dec 7, 2012
Anthony MN wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus (and St. Paul) praised a celibate priesthood and religious life. He says it's a gift from God. It is without question biblical.
Your continuous criticism of this practice tells me you have a deep-seated animosity towards the Catholic faith and you probably have resentment and/or jealousy of men and women who are willing to forego sexual intimacy in their dedication to the kingdom.
And your continued cheap shots at the abuse of minors by a small percentage of sick and disturbed men who should never have been priests tells me you have no other argument than to dig into the gutter for ammunition. That's a very unchristian thing to do.
For the Orthodox the monastics are the front line against the dark forces.ike the soldiers that they are, they abstain from sex, from wealth, etc and fight the battle every day against the passions and against the Deceiver.I can do nothing but admire them and admire anyone who sacrifices for God.They humble me.
Michael

Hamilton, Canada

#407505 Dec 7, 2012
Dust Storm wrote:
<quoted text>
The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:
has instituted a "zero tolerance" policy in which any credibly accused priest is immediately removed from ministry. Law enforcement is also notified;
has trained over 5 million children in giving them skills to protect them from abuse;
has trained over 2 million adults, including 99 percent of all priests, in recognizing signs of abuse;
has conducted over 2 million background checks, including those in the intensified screening process for aspiring seminarians and priests;
has installed "Victim Assistance Coordinators" in every diocese, "assuring victims that they will be heard";
has conducted annual audits of all dioceses to monitor compliance with the groundbreaking 2002 Charter for Protection of Children and Young People;
has instituted in all dioceses abuse review boards – often composed of child welfare experts, child psychologists, and abuse experts – to examine claims of abuse against priests.
No other organization even comes close to implementing the measures the Catholic Church has taken to protect children in its care. In this regard, the Catholic Church in the 21st century is the model for other institutions to follow in the safeguarding of youth.
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2012/1...
cont.
DustStorm ....says..

..The Catholic Church's record of aggressive and proactive protective measures is unparalleled in any organization today. Since the beginning of the abuse crisis, the Catholic Church:

MICHAEL says....

BALONY! The only reason your church is NOW acting on these abuse claims is because so many cases came about, the church leaders couldn't LIE and COVER them up anymore. How pro-active was your church 5 years ago? 50 years ago? 1700 years ago? ZERO!!

Never did the clergy go to the police to report these crimes, it was always the victims or their families and you have the nerve patting your church leaders on the back.

The very bishops who just a few years ago LIED, DECEIVED, and COVERED up for these criminal clergy, from you, all catholics and the police authorities, have now been put in charge of blowing the whistle on the very clergy they covered up for in the first place.

UNBELIEVABLE!

You never show remorse for the victims, you always look for excuses for the perpitrators in your church. How disgusting is that?

.

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