Atheism requires as much faith as religion?

Atheism requires as much faith as religion? bearvspuma : The only problem with this rationalization is that ita s assuming all athiests are so because theya re intelligent in the ways of science and reasoning and all people that believe in a form of god are unintelligent. Full Story

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#125599 Sep 25, 2012
you will go to all kinds of mental gymnastics and special pleading to explain why and how the intelligence you believe created the universe doesn't need to have a beginning.

Buck Crick redux.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#125600 Sep 25, 2012
TheBlackSheep wrote:
<quoted text>
You're an ass, nothing more. You are nasty to those who do not believe as you do, unless of course, they are a threat to you, then you are 'diplomatic'! Is is another word for coward.
You have show no respect for Atheists, mainly because we have never threatened your legs. LOL! You are a coward of the lowest sort.
Again, they hate you; just because you believe in the father, son, and holy spook! To them, that is three different gods and that offends them to the core.
You want to appease them, throw out the son and the spook! OR STFU!
I believe only in one God. Another thing, your opinion of me doesnít matter. I could care less what a triple ďAĒ knucklehead thinks. That doesnít mean I hate you. You just donít rate in my book thatís all.

I havenít threatened your legs either. You might want to keep them covered so you donít gross out the population. Youíre probably one of those hairy bastards. With hair so thick thereís no need for you to ever buy a winter coat.

I know men donít traditionally shave their legs. You are probably the exception to the damn rule. Donít use a regular shaver. Youíll need one of those heavy duty shearers they use on freaking goats.

All that extra hair you could put it in a pillow case and give it to the homeless. Just donít tell them itís your hair and they will be ok with it.

“In the beginning God Created..”

Since: Feb 12

Southern Illinois

#125603 Sep 25, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is intelligence necessary for the existence of the universe?
If you postulate intelligence is necessary, then you have to explain where that intelligence came from. You've suddenly added needless complexity to your explanation of the existence of the universe.
1. your requirement of intelligence for the existence of the universe is a cultural product. You are not capable of accepting "it's just there" because of your religion.
2. you will go to all kinds of mental gymnastics to explain why you don't need to explain why intelligence is necessary
3. you will go to all kinds of mental gymnastics and special pleading to explain why and how the intelligence you believe created the universe doesn't need to have a beginning
4. you will plead for #3 all without realizing that any argument you give for the existence of a timeless creator can also be used for the universe itself
5. you are therefore adding complexity to your explanation of the universe whereas a version lacking intelligent creation is simpler
6. parsimony dictates, then, that a universe without a designer is more likely since it is simpler than an explanation with a designer
Hiding, you know I still love you.

Leave the dark side and come towards the light. You donít belong in darkness. You donít have to give up on science or education. You would be a great asset to the kingdom. We would love to have you working for God.

Since: Sep 10

Long Beach, CA

#125604 Sep 25, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
All that extra hair you could put it in a pillow case and give it to the homeless.
Here's an exercise for you.

Try to rewrite that sentence. As you have it, it's fingernails scratching the blackboard.

You can do it!!

Since: Jun 12

Location hidden

#125606 Sep 25, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Why is intelligence necessary for the existence of the universe?
How does atheism explain it all absent intelligence?
If you postulate intelligence is necessary, then you have to explain where that intelligence came from.
Came from has to do with time which began at the big bang. Naturally if time started at the big bang then the Intelligent source in outside time and therefore infinite. Since time is finite. As an atheist what is your better explanation and where is the hard evidence to assert non intelligent cause?
You've suddenly added needless complexity to your explanation of the existence of the universe.
I have offered a valid explanation. Theism. What is the atheist position?
1. your requirement of intelligence for the existence of the universe is a cultural product. You are not capable of accepting "it's just there" because of your religion.
Opinion.
4. you will plead for #3 all without realizing that any argument you give for the existence of a timeless creator can also be used for the universe itself
That is the point. It is either one or the other. Something is infinite and we know it is not the universe. All you have left is multiverse. Zero evidence. A theory in search of a fact.
5. you are therefore adding complexity to your explanation of the universe whereas a version lacking intelligent creation is simpler
6. parsimony dictates, then, that a universe without a designer is more likely since it is simpler than an explanation with a designer
You end with an opinion.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#125611 Sep 25, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
<quoted text>
Hiding, you know I still love you.
Leave the dark side and come towards the light. You donít belong in darkness. You donít have to give up on science or education. You would be a great asset to the kingdom. We would love to have you working for God.
The light side, huh? Could you explain Oscar Wilde One here for us then?

:)

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#125612 Sep 25, 2012
lightbeamrider wrote:
<quoted text> How does atheism explain it all absent intelligence?
<quoted text> Came from has to do with time which began at the big bang. Naturally if time started at the big bang then the Intelligent source in outside time and therefore infinite. Since time is finite. As an atheist what is your better explanation and where is the hard evidence to assert non intelligent cause? <quoted text> I have offered a valid explanation. Theism. What is the atheist position?
<quoted text> Opinion.
<quoted text> That is the point. It is either one or the other. Something is infinite and we know it is not the universe. All you have left is multiverse. Zero evidence. A theory in search of a fact.
<quoted text> You end with an opinion.
- "theism" is not a cause, nor a reason for the existence of the universe. It's merely a belief system.

- "theism" is not "hard evidence"

- all physics, all scientific theories, work without intelligence behind them

Let's look at the Intelligence-caused universe versus Existing Universe models:

- the intelligence caused model requires an extra step. You have Existing Universe model + Intelligence

- you are therefore required to explain why you include that extra step, what evidence you have for it

- by parsimony, we should chose the Existing Universe model. The universe exists as the outcome of forces. We measure these forces and create mathematical explanations of them. None of our explanations, not a single one, includes "a creator."

So for your argument to hold, you'd have to mathematically demonstrate why a creator would be necessary - why that extra complexity would be necessary. Where does Creator fit into our physics?

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#125613 Sep 25, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
The light side, huh? Could you explain Oscar Wilde One here for us then?
:)
Hims is just lost.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#125614 Sep 25, 2012
Catcher1 wrote:
<quoted text>
nano is lower case, River.
No offense intended, to you or to nano.
A name should always be capitalized, Catcher. Even if it's a fake name I must follow the rules of English.

I'm not as smart as you or HFY or Tide or IANS or Aero or Aura but nobody can sling an insult like me.

:-)

I create my niche and then I fill it.

“Don't be so dichotomous.”

Since: Jan 11

Embrace the grey.

#125615 Sep 25, 2012
Eagle12 wrote:
Hiding, you know I still love you.
Leave the dark side and come towards the light. You donít belong in darkness. You donít have to give up on science or education. You would be a great asset to the kingdom. We would love to have you working for God.
Of course you want her, but telling her she's in darkness is very rude.

This isn't a nice post.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#125616 Sep 25, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
A name should always be capitalized, Catcher. Even if it's a fake name I must follow the rules of English.
I'm not as smart as you or HFY or Tide or IANS or Aero or Aura but nobody can sling an insult like me.
:-)
I create my niche and then I fill it.
Oh, I often think you are many times smarter than I am.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#125617 Sep 25, 2012
Oscar Wilde One wrote:
<quoted text>BASICALLY, ALL YOR CLAN ever does is propose opposing theories and suppositions and then try to compete for relevance, when all theories are often formulated from "flat earth science".
Occam's razor (also written as Ockham's razor, Latin lex parsimoniae) is the law of parsimony, economy, or succinctness. It is a principle urging one to select from among competing hypotheses that which makes the fewest assumptions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occam 's_razor
The principle is often incorrectly[citation needed] summarized as "other things being equal, a simpler explanation is better than a more complex one." In practice, the application of the principle often shifts the burden of proof in a discussion.[a][citation needed] The razor asserts that one should proceed to simpler theories until simplicity can be traded for greater explanatory power.[citation needed] The simplest available theory need not be most accurate. Philosophers[who?] point out also that the exact meaning of simplest may be nuanced.[b]
In science, Occam's razor is used as a heuristic (general guiding rule or an observation) to guide scientists in the development of theoretical models rather than as an arbiter between published models.[2][3] In the scientific method, Occam's razor is not considered an irrefutable principle of logic, and certainly not a scientific result
At least one person believes you to be an old man, but I have real troubles seeing your mental age in the teens.(apologies to teens everywhere)

You just wrote - pardon me, pasted - a bunch of stuff about Oscam's razor that backs up what I've written on here. All apparently without understand what you're copying. Let me dumb it down for you:

Adding a creator to any explanation of the existence of the universe increases complexity of the universe needlessly. I write "needlessly" because all of our scientific theories, every single one of them, leave out creators, deities, designers, etc., to explain their phenomena. Einstein's equations have no god in them. Evolution, no god. The germ theory of disease - no god, no creator. Newton's mathematical universe, no god. Over and over.

So when you postulate that we suddenly need a creator, against all of our working science models - all based on measurable evidence - then you need to explain why and how your added complexity improves our scientific models.

But we both know you can't do this. The very best you theists do is rip off our science models and anachronistically mash them into your outdated, amoral and empty mythologies.

And, Chunky/OscarWildOne/SirDoc1-10 00/and all your other stupid sock names, you make other Christians embarrassed. You're the dregs of their religion. You cheapen it at every turn with the filth you paste. You are, sir, the very best argument - a living argument - against adopting Christianity.

Your morals are repugnant, your mind is a sewer of stinking filth.

On behalf of all atheists on this thread, I'd like to thank you for showing us how you aspire to living as a Christian. It's a wonderful learning experience. Of all the posters here, you do the very best job of trashing the good points that Eagle12 and Lightbeamer raise regarding Christianity.

Thank you :)
:)
:)

peace

:)

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#125618 Sep 25, 2012
ChristineM wrote:
<quoted text>
Why not? We all like a laugh
Just keep you hands to yourself, missy.

“There is no such thing”

Since: May 08

as a reasonable person

#125619 Sep 25, 2012
Oscar Wilde One wrote:
<quoted text>Obviously, you did not get enough to say it yourself.
1x1x1x1x1x1=1. But, why not 5.
No books and no Internet. Do the proof work.
Really? Are you retarded?

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#125620 Sep 25, 2012
Tide with Beach wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course you want her, but telling her she's in darkness is very rude.
This isn't a nice post.
I'm better off in darkness anyways. If I came into the light, he'd have to see how ugly I am. Like Dave, but with breasts that hang to my knees and lots and lots of ear hair. I braid it.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#125621 Sep 25, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
At least one person believes you to be an old man, but I have real troubles seeing your mental age in the teens.(apologies to teens everywhere)
Apology accepted.

He's not a christian. He's a troll. He's my troll and I enjoy playing with him.

I'm a dork.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#125622 Sep 25, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I often think you are many times smarter than I am.
Don't lie to me and I won't lie to you.

Deal?

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#125623 Sep 25, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh, I often think you are many times smarter than I am.
I had to take a test once. The question we're talking about dealt with the difference between possibility and probability. l read it. I thought for a second or two and then I kicked the "question asker" in the right knee with my left foot. When he grabbed his knee he put his head on the table between us. When he looked up, my pencil was a millimeter from his eyeball.

I said, "What's the probability of that happening"?

I thought it was a valid question but I had to go away for awhile.

“Why does my ignorance”

Since: Mar 11

justify your deity?

#125624 Sep 25, 2012
River Tam wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't lie to me and I won't lie to you.
Deal?
I am not lying. Well...maybe not "many times," but smarter, yes, I think so. There's a difference between knowledge and intelligence. I have lots of knowledge, sure. If I was intelligent - or maybe wise - I wouldn't bother posting here :)

Deal.

Since: Oct 10

Location hidden

#125625 Sep 25, 2012
Hidingfromyou wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not lying. Well...maybe not "many times," but smarter, yes, I think so. There's a difference between knowledge and intelligence. I have lots of knowledge, sure. If I was intelligent - or maybe wise - I wouldn't bother posting here :)
Deal.
Intelligence is cool. I can tell you when a man is having a heart attack but I can't fix his heart.

A dog can tell you where a bomb is but the dog can't disarm it.

My intelligence shouldn't be in question anymore.

My knowledge should be.

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