Church won't 'shun family' despite bl...

Church won't 'shun family' despite blood transfusion

There are 180 comments on the The New Zealand Herald story from Jul 16, 2012, titled Church won't 'shun family' despite blood transfusion. In it, The New Zealand Herald reports that:

Jehovah's Witnesses say a 2-year-old girl will still be 'a very beloved member of the family' even after blood transfusion.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The New Zealand Herald.

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“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#163 Aug 1, 2012
UNchained wrote:
<quoted text>
Reading Greek words in a Watchtower magazine hardly qualifies as studying the Koine Greek.
I agree. I studied the Koine Greek.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#164 Aug 1, 2012
dee lightful wrote:
LOL who do you think your kiding...the only Greek you think you know you got from the GB/WT...
You are lying.

Since: Mar 09

United States

#165 Aug 1, 2012
We don't shun anyone, including children.
one

Los Angeles, CA

#166 Aug 2, 2012
Nomi wrote:
We don't shun anyone, including children.
I know that's a lie from personal experience ..my daughters mother was 15 when I got her pregnant, high school sweethearts and she was totally abandoned for it...she couldn't have no contact with her friends and most family and the emotional damaged it caused was devastating..we were kids and when she needed her family the most they abandoned her...now remember she was 15 at the time and baptized n the questions she told me they asked her were humiliating and envasive..wanting to knoe positions and every lil detail by three grown men...sickening what these ppl do....I know that you're full of shit...first hand because I lived it.
non-JW

Las Choapas, Mexico

#167 Aug 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
I studied the Koine Greek. EVERYONE who understand the Greek at John 1:1 knows that it does not LITERALLY say "the Word was God". It is a terribly MISLEADING translation.
Apparently not Gareth.
Almost every bible is translated by a team of scholars who list their credentials.
They don't agree with you.
non-JW

Mexico

#168 Aug 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I studied the Koine Greek.
The write a book and publish your findings.
Notice that when you write a book you can put down your qualifications as an expert in a field.

There is no way to confirm or deny whether or not you studied koine greek.
As far as believing what you say on a forum such as this is pretty stupid on your part for suggesting it and even stupider for anybody to believe what is said on a forum on face value with no way to confirm it.
non-JW

Las Choapas, Mexico

#169 Aug 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
You are lying.
So you are saying Dee is lying.

Can you prove it?
No, I didn't think so.

You claim that you studied koine greek.
Nobody believes you because you cannot provide any credentials.
If you did provide credentials then we would think you even dumber to do so on an open forum.

You make a lot of stupid comments Gareth.
non-JW

Mexico

#170 Aug 2, 2012
Nomi wrote:
We don't shun anyone, including children.
Well Nomi, when my wife left the org, the JWs (who used to come around several times a week) stopped coming over.

I happy about that.

My kids' JW friends stopped coming over.

I happy about that too since they found new friends.

They were fortunate in that moving on was easy. Others don't have it so easy.

What word would you use to describe this phenomenon?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#171 Aug 2, 2012
non-JW wrote:
As far as believing what you say on a forum such as this is pretty stupid on your part for suggesting it and even stupider for anybody to believe what is said on a forum on face value with no way to confirm it.
Then you asked a stupid question.

But it is almost universally agreed to, even by trinity worshippers who studies the Greek, that John 1:1 doesn't say exactly what it appears to say in the original Greek.

What it appears to say to English readers is this:

(the person) The Word was (the person) God.

But what many trinity scholars actually take it to mean is:

(the person) the Word was (the abstract essence called) God.

So right off bat the translation is misleading. It does not even say to the average reader what trinitarian scholars believe it says.

BUT because trinitarian scholars believe that only three persons share "the abstract essence called God" they believe that what it appears to say to English readers is true, even though it is not exactly what the Greek says.

So what it appears to say to English readers is not LITERALLY what the Greek says even according to most trinity worshipping scholars. But they back that translation because their THEOLOGICAL BIAS supports it.

The bottom line is that it is NOT Greek grammar but THEOLOGICAL BIAS that leads to the usual (but not universal) translation.

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#172 Aug 2, 2012
non-JW wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying Dee is lying.
Can you prove it?
No, I didn't think so.
You claim that you studied koine greek.
Nobody believes you because you cannot provide any credentials.
If you did provide credentials then we would think you even dumber to do so on an open forum.
You make a lot of stupid comments Gareth.
And Dee's comment? Was it stupid because she said something that she could not prove?

Dee made a false statement about me. It is up to HER to prove it.

It was NOT stupid of me to correct her to let the READERS know that they can not just take her word for it and that her statement is at the very least contested by the person she was talking about.

What is stupid is for you to expect me to say nothing when a person makes a false statement about me.

And by your OWN reasoning how on earth does Dee know what she said is true or false? The very fact that she made a statement about me that she does not know is true makes her a liar.

And we both know she does not know if I studied Greek or not.

So we both know she was lying. AKA making stuff up.

Feeling a bit stupid yourself yet?
non-JW

Las Choapas, Mexico

#173 Aug 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
Then you asked a stupid question.
But it is almost universally agreed to, even by trinity worshippers who studies the Greek, that John 1:1 doesn't say exactly what it appears to say in the original Greek.
What it appears to say to English readers is this:
(the person) The Word was (the person) God.
But what many trinity scholars actually take it to mean is:
(the person) the Word was (the abstract essence called) God.
So right off bat the translation is misleading. It does not even say to the average reader what trinitarian scholars believe it says.
BUT because trinitarian scholars believe that only three persons share "the abstract essence called God" they believe that what it appears to say to English readers is true, even though it is not exactly what the Greek says.
So what it appears to say to English readers is not LITERALLY what the Greek says even according to most trinity worshipping scholars. But they back that translation because their THEOLOGICAL BIAS supports it.
The bottom line is that it is NOT Greek grammar but THEOLOGICAL BIAS that leads to the usual (but not universal) translation.
Word for word... probably not.

But does it convey the correct idea?

Again, most scholars that I am aware of say "the Word was God".
(I've heard word-for-word is more like "and God was the Word").

The WTS? The translation was done by people whose names and qualifications are to be kept "secret". Yea, right.

How do you know bible scholars have THEOLOGICAL BIAS?
How would one know the WTS doesn't have THEOLOGICAL BIAS?
non-JW

Las Choapas, Mexico

#174 Aug 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
And Dee's comment? Was it stupid because she said something that she could not prove?
Dee made a false statement about me. It is up to HER to prove it.
It was NOT stupid of me to correct her to let the READERS know that they can not just take her word for it and that her statement is at the very least contested by the person she was talking about.
What is stupid is for you to expect me to say nothing when a person makes a false statement about me.
And by your OWN reasoning how on earth does Dee know what she said is true or false? The very fact that she made a statement about me that she does not know is true makes her a liar.
And we both know she does not know if I studied Greek or not.
So we both know she was lying. AKA making stuff up.
Feeling a bit stupid yourself yet?
Not good at turning the other cheek are you Gareth?

You have never made me feel stupid.

Other's have, but not you.

You are a master at saying things nobody can prove. So is your org.

Can you prove Dee was lying? No. you can't.
Can you prove you're telling the truth? No, you cannot.

Does it even matter? Not really, you have no credentials.

“the Word was God”

Since: Jul 11

Ashland, OH

#175 Aug 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
I studied the Koine Greek. EVERYONE who understand the Greek at John 1:1 knows that it does not LITERALLY say "the Word was God". It is a terribly MISLEADING translation.
Spare us. Reading a few Watchtowers where they make certain claims about Greek is not "studying" Koine Greek.

Furthermore, the literal translation of John 1:1 is "and God was the Word". Spin away.

“the Word was God”

Since: Jul 11

Ashland, OH

#176 Aug 2, 2012
Nomi wrote:
We don't shun anyone, including children.
Lie.
UNchained

Maryville, TN

#177 Aug 2, 2012
UNchained wrote:

Reading Greek words in a Watchtower magazine hardly qualifies as studying the Koine Greek.
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. I studied the Koine Greek.
Where did you study it, in the Ridgeway bethel library?

“Bustin' Myths”

Since: Dec 09

Location hidden

#178 Aug 2, 2012
Nomi wrote:
We don't shun anyone, including children.
Liar
dee lightful

Piedmont, SC

#179 Aug 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
And Dee's comment? Was it stupid because she said something that she could not prove?
Dee made a false statement about me. It is up to HER to prove it.
It was NOT stupid of me to correct her to let the READERS know that they can not just take her word for it and that her statement is at the very least contested by the person she was talking about.
What is stupid is for you to expect me to say nothing when a person makes a false statement about me.
And by your OWN reasoning how on earth does Dee know what she said is true or false? The very fact that she made a statement about me that she does not know is true makes her a liar.
And we both know she does not know if I studied Greek or not.
So we both know she was lying. AKA making stuff up.
Feeling a bit stupid yourself yet?
Of course readers should not take my word for anything that is why i say read the scriptures alone without the words of men who have been proven wrong by their very one flip flops in doctrines.
It is my OPINION that you are using theocratic warfare when you say you know Koine Greek your would then know just how bad the NWT of the NT is but you think all their mistranslation are correct when those scholars who can give their credentials tell you the translation by the WTS is erroneous and awful.
Now give us your credential so we can check to see if you really are telling the truth.
Teleologist platelets to

Glendale, AZ

#180 Aug 2, 2012
Aneirin wrote:

You are talking rubbish.

Elders are under the same rules as everybody else. They are not able to arbitrarily "crucify" anyone. There are strict Bible rules that must apply in each judicial case.

Furthermore the elders are very reluctant to disfellowship anybody. It is ALWAYS the very last resort and always considered temporary.
Well, some JW's view a component of blood such as platelets to be a fraction like hemoglobin. Care to explain the basis for the Watchtower Society's policy that JW's that take a transfusion of platelets that make up only 5% of the non-water part of blood will be disfellowshipped and shunned if they are not repentant but a JW that takes a transfusion of hemoglobin that makes up 75% of the non-water part of blood faces no judicial sanctions?
Debbie Reeves

United States

#181 Feb 3, 2013
I choose to get monthly immunoglobulin infusions rather than risk death. It is a miracle of modern medicine that God (Jehovah ) has provided me with as a life saver. You do not get tabacco, alcohol or lunacy from blood infusions. Where in the world do you get your information?????????
Debbie Reeves

United States

#182 Feb 3, 2013
one wrote:
<quoted text>
I know that's a lie from personal experience ..my daughters mother was 15 when I got her pregnant, high school sweethearts and she was totally abandoned for it...she couldn't have no contact with her friends and most family and the emotional damaged it caused was devastating..we were kids and when she needed her family the most they abandoned her...now remember she was 15 at the time and baptized n the questions she told me they asked her were humiliating and envasive..wanting to knoe positions and every lil detail by three grown men...sickening what these ppl do....I know that you're full of shit...first hand because I lived it.
. I am sorry you had to live through that. Especially the men asking such personal questions as positions.

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