Who Is Allah?

[Buford]

MAAT wrote:

Adding or extracting or twisting torah is also murder.
It's the only 'proof' of G-d. Who is just as much a person.
The rule is that you may always extend the definition G-d gave but never diminish the Law.
Basicly you are free to question any and everything, explore, Doubt. All part and package.

Searching "G-d as person" brought me here:

http://atheism.about.com/od/whatisgod/a/perso...

For many people in Western religious traditions, the idea that God is a "person" is a necessary and fundamental part of their beliefs. Indeed, the very idea that God might not be a person is almost inconceivable for that would render them unable to adequately explain their religious history and their own religious experiences.

One reason for this is the fact that many of things often thought of as contributing to perfection, like love, morality, and intelligence, seem only to occur in the context of persons. If God were not a person, it would be difficult to think of God as intelligent, creative, moral, or loving - and if God were none of those things, how could God be perfect and worthy of worship?

Another reason for this is the fact that there is a strong tradition of conceiving of God as a being with whom we can and should have a personal relationship with. Jews have a relationship with God because they are God's chosen people; although this relationship is more often between God and the Jews as a people than with any Jews as individuals, it is still a personal relationship from God's perspective, requiring God to be a person.

Christianity has maintained this tradition, making it even more important in the figure of Jesus Christ, believed to be both fully human and fully God. Because Jesus is obviously a person and because Jesus came as the savior for the entire world, he is regarded as someone with whom we can have a relationship personally, as individuals. Some Christians take this concept so far that they would deny that Christianity is a "religion" at all; instead, they say that Christianity is defined as a "personal relationship with God."

Cont.

[Buford]

The idea of God as a person is not monolithic and uncontested, however. Outside the Western religious tradition, impersonal gods are quite common. In Hinduism, Brahman is conceived as the ultimate and absolutely impersonal "reality" which lies behind the illusion we typically think of as reality.

God conceived as impersonal is not limited to Eastern traditions like Hinduism, however. Islam specifically rejects the idea of God as a person as blasphemous because being a "person" means being limited and having imperfections. Thus, contrary to the Christian and Jewish traditions, the personhood of God is treated as incompatible with God's perfection. This is an important point to remember because Islam is usually treated as falling within the sphere of philosophical theism - clearly, however, philosophical theism can be incompatible with actual monotheistic traditions and with theistic religions as people actually practice them.

Then again, perhaps the Islamic perspective on God isn't so strange after all. Although the idea of God as a person has been generally dominant in the Western religious and philosophical discourse, it has not had a monopoly. There has been a strong tendency among many theologians and philosophers to accept the Muslim insight that perhaps being a person negatively impacts the ability of God to be perfect.

As a consequence, the notion of "person" as applied to God becomes less and less like the notion of "person" as applied to humans. Today many believers use the terms as if they meant pretty much the same thing, but philosophers and theologians often use them as if they were only analogously related at best. The idea of attributing to an uncreated God a characteristic of created humans sounds arrogant to some - perhaps God is more like a person than a non-person from our perspective, but that doesn't mean that God is a person in any way we understand the term.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Alex123 aka WM wrote:

<quoted text>
You are accusing Jesus of messing up the torah prophecy...something that even the pharisees wouldn't dare say!

rabbee: what makes you think, the republicians of then. are doing a better job, than the washington san hedreen today?

[Buford]

Is the attribute of personhood for God coherent and meaningful? Maybe, maybe not. When defined much as the term is defined for humans, it is coherent and meaningful - but it may also not be consistent with other attributes. On the other hand, if we modify it to make it consistent with other attributes, we begin to lose consistency with what real believers think.

If a theist is going to assert that their god is a "person," it will be necessary for them to explain what, exactly, they mean by that word in this context. It cannot be assumed that they mean the same thing as whey they describe a human being as a "person." Whether they do mean the same thing in both contexts or whether they only conceive of an analogous relationship between the two, they will also have to explain what implications this has for the nature of God and our relationship with it.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

bmz wrote:

<quoted text>
Your ignorance is dripping through the entire post, Septic!
Barrow? Christianity ploughed up through the Jewish Holy Scriptures.
How did Jesus "fukfilled" the prophecy? lol!

rabbee: well don't you know how this story always goes? how adam and his mate, finally get back together. in spite of your total disrespect, for your grandmother and grandfather. because none of you, have ever truly honered your mother and father, actually here in TheTorah. when their is no way, you can honor G-D, with your not ever being here in ThisStory of ThePhysical Creation again.

[Shamma]

Alex123 aka WM wrote:

<quoted text>
Your personal opinion is not even worth a used toilet paper.
Please respond to my post....
Perhaps "God" was fed up with biblical jealous Sarah who got rid of genuine Son and gave birth to her child through INCEST?
It makes total sense to support the First Born ISHMAEL, who was not a product of INCEST.
ISHMAEL was kicked out by the judah gang writers who were promoting themselves through ISAAC!
WAS ISAAC A PRODUCT OF INCEST?
AND YOU APPROVE?
WHY?LOL...

Genesis 18:10 relates that after the birth of Isaac, Sarah feared Ishmael’s negative influence on her son and (v. 9):“Sarah saw the son, whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham, playing [mezahek].” The Rabbis differed as to the nature of the activity that aroused Sarah’s ire. The appellation given him in this verse:“the son, whom Hagar the Egyptian [or: the son of Hagar the Egyptian]” delineated the interpretive direction that Ishmael’s actions were as those of the Gentiles, leading to different understandings of the word mezahek. In one view, Ishmael engaged in idolatry and Sarah saw him building pagan altars and trapping locusts, which he offered as sacrifices. According to a second opinion, Ishmael engaged in licentious sexual acts, and Sarah saw him “conquering the gardens”[a euphemism for raping women] and mistreating them. In yet a third exegetical notion, Ishmael engaged in bloodshed. Sarah saw him take a bow and arrows and shoot at Isaac [i.e., he was trying to kill him](T Sotah [ed. Lieberman] 6:6).

The three types of behavior depicted here are the three transgressions regarded by the Rabbis as cardinal, for which a person “should be killed rather than transgress”(see BT Sanhedrin 74a). The aim of these exegetical positions is to present Ishmael’s conduct in so extreme a fashion as to be totally unacceptable to the spirit of Judaism, the spirit in which Sarah wanted to raise her son.

Ishmael’s laughter [“mezahek”] pertained to the question of inheritance. When Isaac was born, everyone rejoiced and proclaimed:“A son is born to Abraham, a son is born to Abraham! he will inherit the world and take two portions of the inheritance.” Ishmael would hear this and laugh [“mezahek”] to himself, saying:“Don’t be fools, don’t be fools. I am the firstborn, and I will take two portions.” This led Sarah to make haste to tell Abraham (Gen. 21:10):“Cast out that slave woman and her son, for the son of that slave shall not share in the inheritance with my son Isaac”(T Sotah loc. cit.). According to this interpretive orientation, the expulsion of Hagar and Ishmael was meant to clarify to them that Isaac was Abraham’s heir.

The Expulsion of Hagar and Ishmael

When Sarah saw that Ishmael sought to kill Isaac, she told Abraham:“Ishmael did such and such to Isaac. Stand and write to Isaac all that God vowed to you and your offspring, for the slave’s son shall not inherit together with my son, with Isaac.” Sarah told Abraham:“Write a bill of divorce for the handmaiden [Hagar] and send her away from me and from my son Isaac, from this world and the next.” This was exceeding evil in Abraham’s mind, the worst of all the ills that he had suffered.
God was revealed to him and said:“Abraham, do you not know that Sarah was fit to be your wife from her mother’s womb, and she is your soul mate and wife [sharing your] covenant? Sarah was not called ‘handmaiden,’ but ‘your wife,’ while Hagar was not called ‘your wife,’ but ‘handmaiden.’ All that Sarah spoke, she truly said. Let this not be evil in your eyes.” Early the next morning Abraham wrote a bill of divorce and gave it to Hagar. He took a garment and tied it to her loins, so that it would drag after her, for everyone to know that she was a handmaiden. He sent her away from him and from Isaac his son, from this world and the next.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

bmz wrote:

<quoted text>
No, Buford.
I believe in meritocracy! We are famous for that in Singapore.

rabbee: do you think it is, so cute to see? more than one mental blockhead calling each other what they are. kind of tragicly pathetic, if you ask me. as you can all murder each other, for your only true lack of truth here in TheTorah again.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

bmz wrote:

<quoted text>
Because the LORD God Almighty forbade that.
And to say that the Father wanted Jesus dead, is absurd.
Either the Church is wrong or your God is. Your choice. Please choose wisely.

rabbee: well are you so sure, it is not all your disbelief of being here in TheTorah? that always results, in G-D having Adam put to death. do you really think that G-D, is your g-ds of different not here in TheTorah stories?

[Buford]

rabbee yehoshooah adam wrote:

<quoted text>
rabbee: do you think it is, so cute to see? more than one mental blockhead calling each other what they are. kind of tragicly pathetic, if you ask me. as you can all murder each other, for your only true lack of truth here in TheTorah again.

I'll call you what you are: demented.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

bmz wrote:

<quoted text>
No, not at all. When I arrive, I see you have already been judged by others.
Perhaps the majority of the international readers judge you and friends well.

rabbee: does it really matter, how many wrong people judge you wronly with your being wrong also? when the point is to be true to G-D, and to reject being true to anyone not really true to G-D. when i have yet to meet a liar, who did not think their only true way of lying is right.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

bmz wrote:

<quoted text>
Please read my post on the Word of God that never existed. Thanks
I will post it again.

rabbee: the only written word of G-D, given to any one was given to Moshe in TheTorah. even if you all do not think, we are all still here in IT today.

[STEFANO COLONNA]

Until now no Muslim dared to name me the seven heavens.

LOL

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Shear power wrote:

who is ALLAH?
He is the creator , sustainer and maintainer of the entire universe and beyond

rabbee: well then how come, THEY did not say THEIR NAME was all-h when THEY came to speak to me in reguards to the woman chaooah? how come THEY did not say, I-AM TheG-D of Eeshmael and muhammed instead of what THEY really said? sorry i am not buying your tragic, not here in TheTorah joke against G-D.

[Paul WV]

Alex123 aka WM wrote:

<quoted text>
Paul the deluded....unless you are a Jew or a member of house Israel by BLOOD, Isaac has nothing to do with you!!
your mangod is a failed jewish messiah...
Isaac has nothing to do with you!!
Stop stealing Jewish books and killing them!

muslims have nothing to do with Isaac or any of the prophets of Israel. mohammad was not related to Abraham even through ishmael. mohammad was of pagan stock and his story was a glomeration of stories he heard about Judaism and Christianity. Prove me wrong!

[Paul WV]

MAAT wrote:

<quoted text>
Or to influence by the eastern church which differs on crucial points with the western church.
By the way, Baal had a son called Jesub. His mother was Mari hAnat.
Baal died and was resurrected.
Talk about prototypes.

Provide some scholarly links supporting your claim. I am anxiously waiting your reply.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

MAAT wrote:

<quoted text>
I always find it weird that christians quote verses out of a book that is not theirs.
Revelation might as well be about the usurpation of Adamma or Ishara or any other god, even Cybele or even their cration stories retold. The church would in any case not know.
The church at first did not even want to include.
By the way the other post. It is not about being right or wrong but the form of argument you use.

rabbee: too cowardly, to say all-h too? since their all-h is not the g-d of Noach, Avraham, Yeetzak, Yaachov, Daveed, Shlomoh, Adam and adam. because they all refused, to convert to become a muslem.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Shear power wrote:

<quoted text>
can you prove a single verse in the quran to be wrong or illogical?

rabbee: how bout in a single word difference? Torah - quran. do they both, mean the same thing?

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

Alex123 aka WM wrote:

<quoted text>
It is not easy to find very incompetent Jews.
They are clever industrious hard working and very competent.
Experts have finally traced just one VERY incompetent person who lived about 2000 years ago.
This Jew was so incompetent that he could not even convince his own Jewish people that he was their Messiah.
Rumour has it that this incompetent Jew is now being worshipped by ignorant Pagan Gentiles as their God.
If you want to be the God of the ignorant Pagan Gentiles, you got to, first, be a Very incompetent Jew.
Put another way:
VERY Incompetent Jew = God of the ignorant Pagan Gentiles!

rabbee: yeah and look what happened, the last time you all did not truly listen to Adam or adam. and your still not willing to listen your grandfather adam again today. do you all believe, that doing this whole not here in the story wrong again, is for your vain selfish benefits? do you really think, you all bad mouthing G-D Son adam here in TheTorah, is to your best intrest for all being against G-D?

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

bmz wrote:

<quoted text>
Qur'aan does not say that it was Ishmael. It does not name the kid.
We say that because there was no sign of Issac for years, when Ishmael was there and Ishmael was the first-born of Abraham.
So, what is so great about Issac and where does Jesus fit in between Jacob and Esau?
Issac's mother was the Woman of Promise, according to Christian terms. Right?

rabbee: well is it not pretty pathetic, when none of you accept where Adam and adam and his mate fit here in TheLiving Scripture from TheG-D of Only TheTorah? when you had all rather forever, and always guess wrong never here in TheTorah.

[rabbee yehoshooah adam]

bmz wrote:

<quoted text>
It gives me a great pleasure to confirm that Jesus and his disciples also worshipped the moon god.
They were always looking forward to their moon god, the new moon (the Crescent) every month, in order to observe various Jewish festivals. And every month they would gather at the beach to see their moon god and worshipped it when the sun went down. Jesus always watched his moon god by sitting in a boat.

rabbee: liar! blastphemer! you gravy sucking, antiG-D not here in TheTorah clown. your boss the antichrist, is not going to like your not being subtle enough to not be noticed.